Thread 17935416

What was their deal? How did they manage to conquer or influence basically all of known civilization(to them)? What caused the burning?

>>17935416 (OP)
2/3 is modern reconstructed, btw
Sorry

>>17935419
Im aware, they fucked it up too

>>17935419
Is it?
I have read Leopoldo Batres books about the reconstruction of the pyramid of the sun.
It seems he made a mistake between the 3th and 4th level of the pyramid, making an extra level between these 2.
He also had to remove the last layer of the actual pyramid and what we truly see is the penultimate layer.
Anyways, the consolidation of the rest of the pyramid seems fine.

Mayan pyramids were entirely made up by whitey in the 19th century

>>17935432
The pyramid of the sun was even bigger, since as i said, what we see is the penultimate layer rather than the final form

>>17935436
Huh?
Reconstruction doesnt mean that they made up all of it you dumb.
Talking about teotihuacan for example, even before it was reconstructed we could see how fucking enourmous it was.

>>17935436
thats not mayan retard

Temple of kukulkan

Tikal.
As we can see in these pyramids, they look practically identical to their reconstructions.
Its true some errors were made in these reconstructions, but for the most part they just consolidated the building

>>17935416 (OP)
The roots of their rise to power was the abandonment of the previous biggest city in Central Mexico due to a volcanic eruption, which allowed them to absorb its fleeing population, afterwards i think it was just a matter of growing more food to have more people so that they could send them on military and diplomatic expeditions to control trade routes and even invite in foreigners from places like Oaxaca and the Maya area to live with them

The burning was presumably due to either internal rebellion or foreign attack. We'll probably never know since the Teotihuacanos actively preferred pictographic glyphs over fully developed writing and their massive cultural legacy made every other subsequent Mesoamerican civilization outside the Maya area feel the same way

>>17935436
so were any other ruins according to your logic, dumbass retard

>>17935484
that's the parthenon before it was reconstructed btw

>>17935484
>>17935489
greekjeets are brown subhumans, so yeah, their """"civilization"""" was reinterpreted by white nordic archeologists

>>17935416 (OP)
>According to myth, the Aztecs, following the instructions of their god Huitzilopochtli, founded the city of Tenochtitlan (future Mexico City) on the site where they saw an eagle sitting on a cactus and devouring a snake.

>According to myth, the Phoenicians, following the instructions of their god Melqart-Heracles, founded the city of Tyre on the site where they saw an eagle sitting on a tree and devouring a snake.

Hiram was from Phoenicia and he built the Temple of Solomon in the image of the Temple of Melqart (in his temple there were two special columns, made of gold and emerald, the prototype of Boaz and Jachin. The emerald column glowed green at night)

Huītzilōpōchtli = Melqart-Heracles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiuhcoatl
= staff of Moses

Huītzilōpōchtli led the Aztecs out of the place where they were oppressed and ordered them to change their self-name (Egyptian Exodus)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiuhtecuhtli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huehueteotl
= God of Abrahaam, he is connected with Huītzilōpōchtli and Xiuhcoatl (also he is Baal Hamon)
(By the way, in both cults a fire was constantly burning near the temple and sacrifices were made)

everything is connected

>>17935419
>>17935436
>>17935492
>>17935495
I fucking hate this website

>>17935495
The city in the OP is Teotihuacan and Tenochtitlan was founded at a time when Phoenicia was ruled by christian crusaders

>>17935503
ok
but still

obviously everything is strange, coincidences are not simple

Teotihuacan was covered with sand when it was found, it was believed that it was built by the Quinametzin (giants, nephilim/rephaim)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinametzin

Tlaltecuhtli possibly Egyptian Neith

The aztecs conquered or influenced their neighbors by beating their asses and being scary, dodo. What the fuck kind of question is that?
But they knew the world was big, they had trade networks measured in the thousands of miles.

But the real mystery is the Caral site in Peru, which hit mainstream archaeology a few years ago and has construction dating back to the First Interregnum in Egypt. Yes, really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caral

>>17935516
Why don't you leave this thread and make a whole new one for your stupid schizo bullshit, so I don't have to look at it? Thanks
>>17935517
Not the aztecs retard teotihuacan

fuck me I dont know why I even bothered making a thread this board is completely unusable

>>17935516
>coincidences are not simple
Yeah hey retard Gandalf, coincidences are in fact simple. In fact, they are so simple there's nothing else to be said about them.
Aliens zooming around teaching cavemen about faces with the tongue sticking out is what's not simple.
fuckbrain

>>17935520
>Not the aztecs retard teotihuacan
Teotihuacan is boring and old news
Caral is the new shit that is mind-blowingly old
They even found one of those counting strings

>>17935525
then make a different thread about it what the fuck. This thread is about Teotihuacan

>>17935516
The Sun Stone depicts the Sun God holding a sacrificial flint knife between his teeth, not a snarling gorgon with its tongue out. And putting a face on your shield isn't exactly an outlandish concept.
Likewise, Cihuacoatl was a postclassic deity of a people whose ethnogenesis was contemporary with the Mongol Empire, there are no signs of female deities with her specific serpentine features in earlier Mesoamerican cultures. The chances of her being related to a culture from 2000 years earlier are quite slim to say the least.

>>17935517
WOW!

wtf

>>17935527
Yeah riveting stuff dildo what's the other stupid question you had?
Was the burning caused by fire?
Did it happen the way the only record says it did?
Do you know of a parking structure big enough for you to hurl your fat ass off the edge and splat?

>>17935528
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votan
>F. Núñez de la Vega, bishop of Chiapa, says, in the preface to his Synodal Constitutions, that in the visit which he made to his diocese towards the end of the last century [i.e. the late 1600s], he found many ancient calendars of the Chiapanese, and an old manuscript in the language of that country, made by the Indians themselves, in which it was said, according to their ancient tradition, that a certain person named Votan was present at that great building, which was made by order of his uncle, in order to mount up to heaven; that then every people was given its language, and that Votan himself was charged by God to make the division of the lands of Anahuac
>Anahuac is the ancient core of Mexico. Anahuac is a Nahuatl name which means "close to water." It can be broken down like this: A(tl) + nahuac. Atl means "water" and nahuac, which is a relational word that can be affixed to a noun, means "close to.
Atlanahuac sounds like Atantis/Atlantilc
(and Anunnak)

>In his account, Bishop Núñez de Vega also states that Votan belonged to the royal lineage of "Cham" (probably "chan" or snake) and that he established a kingdom called "Na Chan" (Snake House)
Who does this statue depict then? You do understand that gods could hide their true nature? Athena was depicted as a human, but her Syrian counterpart Atagartis(and she was identified with all the main goddesses and was considered the wife of Baal) was described with a snake/fish tail (she, like Aphrodite, falls from the sky in a huge egg)

btw
>Cōātlīcue Tēteoh īnnān
>INNAN
>INANNA

>>17935525
Teotihuacan is a much more interesting site than Caral unless you're specifically in things based on how "mysterious" and old they are. Teotihuacan was a massive city whose political activities across the region and massive cultural influence over Mesoamerican civilization can actually be tracked and reconstructed through archaeology, while there's really not much to Caral beyond its surprising age and the fact some aspects of later andean cultures can be found there.

>>17935544
Votan is an obscure figure mentioned only in that one account. His importance eas hugely overinflated by 19th and 20th century hylerdiffusionists, only for the Maya script to be deciphered and Maya sources like the Chilam Balam abd Popol Vuh to be deciphered. And did we learn from these sources? That this supposed Votan is never mentioned once. If he did ever exist at all, it was a minor regional figure in Chiapas, not anything of significance for Mesoamerican civilization as a whole.
Also, Anahuac was just a term for thr Valley of Mexico.
>Who does this statue depict then?
The statue from your original collage? Coatlicue, who was a Nahua/Mexica fertility goddess, not a Maya king. If you're genuinely trying to imply that everything even tangentially related to snakes must be intimately linked, you might really be quite stupid.

>>17935544
Votan is an obscure figure mentioned only in that one account. His importance was hugely overinflated by 19th and 20th century hylerdiffusionists, only for the Maya script to be deciphered and Maya sources like the Chilam Balam abd Popol Vuh to become more well-known. And what did we learn from these sources? That this supposed Votan is never mentioned once. If he did ever exist at all, it was a minor regional figure in Chiapas, not anything of significance for Mesoamerican or Maya civilization as a whole.
Also, Anahuac was just a term for thr Valley of Mexico.
>Who does this statue depict then?
The statue from your original collage? Coatlicue, who was a Nahua/Mexica fertility goddess, not a Maya king. If you're genuinely trying to imply that everything even tangentially related to snakes must be intimately linked, you might really be quite stupid.

>>17935559
>If you're genuinely trying to imply that everything even tangentially related to snakes must be intimately linked, you might really be quite stupid.

Coatlicue even holds her head in her hands like a Scythian goddess with snake legs (she was considered the wife of Heracles)
both literally have skirts made of snakes

>Popol Vuh
Vucub Caquix = sumerian Anzu

>>17935489
No

>>17935575
Yes.

>>17935589
Youre proving my point.
The user who posted the 1970 pantheon as "before reconstructed" was indeed reconstructed, as it cam be seen in my photo and in your photo

>>17935532
>only record
there are no written records for teotihuacan
clearly, you seem to think that teotihuacan was just a city within the aztec empire or something when no, it was its own hegemony that existed in mesoamerica from about 250 to the 700s AD, that's what makes it interesting, it's mesoamerican history from way before the spaniards arrived

>>17935605
>there are no written records for teotihuacan
There are no PRIMARY written re
It wasn't an oral traditio
oh god never mind
fucking gunk head

>>17935605
Indeed.
Thats why historiography before the XX century just catalogued everything prehispnaic that was not aztec or mayan as "toltec".
Teotihuacan was also catalogued as "toltec" even though these 2 cultures are from different eras of mesoamerica

>>17935625
there are no secondary ones either
the spanish wrote nothing about teotihuacan aside from the aztecs' highly mythologized view of it in their creation myth, they did not know of the fact there was ever a burning there

Bro, this basically 60% reconstructed i.e fake

>>17935711
>"False"
The "2/3" doesnt refer to the volume of the pyramid but the FACADE of it.
And even with that, i havent seen any academic essay yet that claims that 2/3 of the facade is not original.

>>17935416 (OP)
>What was their deal?
Snakes, spiritual and cultural domination, sacrificial immolation of blood. Roughly something like that.
>How did they manage to conquer or influence basically all of known civilization(to them)?
They did not, though. Their empery extended from the Valley of Mexico to Tikal (At least). But there were still many other powerful polities around at the time. It wasn't a rome type of thing.
>What caused the burning?
My pet theory is that it was internal struggle of some sort. Maybe a cultural thing to do with the site falling. As far as I know, the ceremonial centre was burned, but the site remained inhabited for many more centuries. This pattern replicates across some other major site iirc.

>>17935495
>>17935503
>>17935516
chronology is wrong obviously

>>17935544
damn anon
I want read more about this
any books recomendation?>

>>17935520
>schizo bullshit
Tell me about it! These people will hound everyone acting like they have it all figured out with these collages and then forget nuance and context for everything. Ive seen a lot of things that are not related or deliberately misunderstood but they always have an agenda that matters more than truth. But call them schizos and they act exactly like calling someone out for their religion.

>>17935544
>she, like Aphrodite, falls from the sky in a huge egg
Ive never seen references of this in particular. Only that they are connected to planet Venus which was said to have been hurled out like a comet into the inner system.
Other references can be to meteorites like Aphrodite and Cybele which are connected to some. But not eggs.

>>17935516
All of this reminds me of Aten

Hyperdiffusionists are so fucking retarded it's not even funny

>>17935570
Assuming what you're saying is even true, that can just as easily be explained by the fact that snakes and skirts existed in both places, which is a whole lot more likely than a scythian god somehow manifesting itself across the atlantic 2000 years after the scythians were gone at a time when the fucking Mongol Empire ruled the eurasian steppes.

>>17935516
>Teotihuacan was covered with sand when it was found,
Teotihuacan was a Nahua city-state paying tribute to the Aztec Empire when it was found.
>it was believed that it was built by Quinamentzin
And yet, archaeology and historical records from the Maya shows that it was a normal city-state inhabited by normal people that did regular city-state things from 200 to 500 AD and a minor town also inhabited by normal peoppe from that point to the contact period.

>>17935416 (OP)
Admittedly, I don’t know much about Teotihuacan, but true. They are the blueprint for civilization in the region since many "Tollan" cities that Mesoamericans spoke of were ackchyually Teotihuacan. Most of what we do know is mostly speculative isn’t it? From what I’ve gathered, my guess is they were the Otomi people, perhaps successors the Olmecs, because of their serpent fertility/agricultural deity, which resembles the Olmec god. The Aztecs also named their highest ranking elite warriors after the Otomi. Most of what we attribute to the Aztecs, is just Teotihuacan culture passed through a Nahuatl filter. Do you have any theories on the origins of Teotihuacan?

>What caused the burning?
Didn't Teotihuacan collapsed due to what was likely a civil war or peasant revolt since only the elite residences are completely burned down? Didn't the fall of Teotihuacan happen around the same time as LALIA?

>The Late Antique Little Ice Age (LALIA) was a long-lasting Northern Hemispheric cooling period in the 6th and 7th centuries AD, during the period known as Late Antiquity. The period coincides with three large volcanic eruptions in 535/536, 539/540 and 547. The volcanic winter of 536 was the early phenomenon of the century-long global temperature decline. One study suggested a global cooling of 2 °C (3.6 °F). The period contributed to the decline of the Roman Empire and influenced the second wave migration period, primarily of the early Slavs

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/24694452.2018.1488577
>For decades, scientists have been trying to determine the causes that led to the decline of Teotihuacan, and they have suggested several possible factors, including wars, social conflict, and droughts. The causality remains unclear, however, and interest in the topic has hardly subsided. In this study, we assess the plausibility of the drought hypothesis by exploring the drought mechanisms in late Holocene central Mexico

>>17937306
> Our δ18O records provide valuable information regarding climate variations in late Holocene central Mexico. For example, El Niño–Southern Oscillation decoupled from the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) mainly drove late Holocene climate, particularly between 900 and 1550 CE, causing a dry Medieval Climate Anomaly and a wet early Little Ice Age. Most interesting, our results indicate that the decline of Teotihuacan could be partially attributed to seventh-century droughts induced by a coupling of pronounced El Niño and reduced solar output (i.e., a more southern location of the ITCZ). Also, these droughts seem to have caused a corresponding migration from the west into the Basin of Mexico

Even a year long winter would make any sort of society beyond small scale migratory pastoralism impossible, nevermind a continent wide society built on feudalism functioning off high medieval age technology (minus stuff like gunpowder of course because guns ruin le fantasy). A multi-year winter hitting would cause their entire society to collapse as starving peasants bust open the granaries, domesticated animals die off as feed and fuel for heat runs out and starving royalty eat their horses, and towns crumble under a cascade of snow and disease as waste collects and piles up unable to be carried way by frozen rivers and ice over cesspools.

>>17937306
>Our δ18O records provide valuable information regarding climate variations in late Holocene central Mexico. For example, El Niño–Southern Oscillation decoupled from the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) mainly drove late Holocene climate, particularly between 900 and 1550 CE, causing a dry Medieval Climate Anomaly and a wet early Little Ice Age. Most interesting, our results indicate that the decline of Teotihuacan could be partially attributed to seventh-century droughts induced by a coupling of pronounced El Niño and reduced solar output (i.e., a more southern location of the ITCZ). Also, these droughts seem to have caused a corresponding migration from the west into the Basin of Mexico