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Thread 17939396

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Anonymous No.17939396 >>17939463 >>17940076 >>17940977
I think ancient Israel and Judah were the Koreas of the ancient Middle East.
If you look at ancient Israel in the north and Judah in the south, they were like South and North Korea respectively (more so in ideology than geographical position).

They both claim to have been unified as a single country, but split among different social systems. Israel was a wealthy, cosmopolitan country that was thought of for its inequality (like South Korea), while Judah was more religious, poorer, and militaristic (like North Korea).

Yahweh was treated like how North Korea treated Kim Jong-Un (Yahweh being the God of War, and Kim Jong-Un being the "great general" playing a similar role), with Yahwists persecuting polytheists like how North Koreans punish dissent. They both depended on foreign support from surrounding powers. The Bible and archeology support this.

Awkwardly, Judah, the equivalent of North Korea, ended up winning out in this case, with their descendants being much more populous and powerful than those of Israel (the Samaritans only number a few hundred today).

I think if North Korea or both Koreas collapsed, and a robust North Korean diaspora emerged, North Koreans in other territories (especially the more radical ones) would still continue to worship the Kims.

Also, as a side note, I find it interesting that the reasons archeologists claim that Israel and Judah were never united could also be used to argue that Korea was never united. Korean architecture before the split was mostly wood/paper-based, which tends to rot. Large concrete and steel buildings were only built after the Koreas were divided. And both Koreas have a self-interested bias to claim the country was united even if it wasn’t: as justification to conquer the other (which they do use in their propaganda). So generations into a dystopian future in which most of our history gets buried, archeologists could use that to argue that a united Korea might have been a myth, or was only a small chiefdom or something - even though we know today it was historically an actual polity.
Anonymous No.17939463 >>17939831
>>17939396 (OP)
I am exposing myself here but I literally saw this exact take on the WhatIfAltHist subreddit a while back:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WIAH/comments/1m913r3/i_think_ancient_israel_and_judah_were_the_koreas/
Anonymous No.17939831
>>17939463
I am he.
Anonymous No.17940076 >>17940952
>>17939396 (OP)
so which country were they a vassal of then? Rome?
Anonymous No.17940952
>>17940076
China. At least broadly.
Anonymous No.17940977 >>17942781
>>17939396 (OP)
>argue that a united Korea might have been a myth
Or that it was only unified shortly before by Japanese rule. Korea really didn't do a whole lot throughout its history, so it seems really difficult to disprove that in this scenario.
Anonymous No.17941862
The Koreas are already pretty divergent culturally, with neither truly continuing their pre-Japanese or Chinese-occupied past. One American vassal and one failed Soviet vassal turned Hoxhaist Albania-esque hermit state, I guess.

They even have different names in the Korean language: the north is Joseon and the south is Hanguk.

Given enough time and happenings, at least to the extent OP's been describing, while I don't anticipate an eternity of brutal Juche-ery, there's literally never going to ever be a united Korea ever again. There will be one Hanguk in the South and one Joseon in the North. They're going to have separate "Joseonian" and "Hangugian" cultures, traditions, holidays, spiritualities/philosophies, and even languages.

In all likelihood though I feel like we're soon (and by "soon" I mean within our lifetimes) going to see the South collapse - perhaps our time's Assyrian conquest of Israel? So we'll only have one Korea and it'll be Joseon and maybe we can still keep calling it Korea (or Best Korea) after all.
Anonymous No.17942781 >>17942844 >>17943401
>>17940977
>Korea really didn't do a whole lot throughout its history
kek, wait till you find out they birthed Japan.
Anonymous No.17942844 >>17942862
>>17942781
I might be an Altaic truther.

>muh Japan and Korean are muh isolates

OK? Based on what? Some narrow vocab-related definition of language families that probably works best on white people languages? Even stripping away the entire Chinese layer, there are several pairs of core words that support a Japanese-Korean relationship, like kuma/geum (bear) and mizu/mul (water).

And the grammar is almost 1:1 identical: wa = neun, o = reul, e = e.

And don't even get me started on the Turkic comparisons. Remember, the original homeland of the Turks was the steppes of Central Asia, as opposed to modern Turkey. Think the "stan" countries.

They literally just take the most "savage" areas and say they've got the most language families. Papua New Guinea, the Americas, and to a lesser extent eastern Siberia - all nevertheless featuring overwhelming typological and morphological similarities that are too hard to gloss over.

Definitely a degree of malding from Japanese and Korean changs who don't wanna be related to Hün Tenggri Khaganxuhluug who drank fermented mare's milk as a baby, weighed 400 lbs, wears seal skin, and can hum 3 notes at once. Not that there's anything wrong with him, of course, but being like that kinda undermines the "1st world country" vibe and shit. I.e. American influence lol, which very strongly obfuscates the core elements of Korean (and Japanese) culture, along with when the Chinese civilized them hard. Maybe the Koryo Saram in Russian Siberia or the Chaoxianzu in NE China could show us the core "rawness" of the Koreans. IDK they just feel like the rawest of all Koreans (minus the DPRK oddballs). Incidentally some actually ended up in the stans lol due to the USSR displacing ethnic groups to deter uprisings.

Also I have an unfounded unsubstantiated crackpot theory that Japonic was spoken in/near modern-day Zhejiang by the Baiyue (aka the "weird SE Chinese mountain barbarians") for another day.
Anonymous No.17942862
>>17942844
Using language is so limiting and is rooted more in theory crafting than any hard science. DNA, historical records, and archeology trumps language theory. Although nearly all scholars believe Japonic originated from the Korean Peninsula.
Anonymous No.17943401 >>17943961
>>17942781
By definition not Koreans but Proto-Japonics, so completely irrelevant.
Anonymous No.17943961 >>17944005
>>17943401
Language doesn't determine Ethnicity.

No, they were Koreans from the Korean State of Jin. Just because they had two languages back then doesn't mean they aren't Korean.

Again, Language != Ethnicity

And DNA will tell you otherwise. The latest research from The University of Tokyo even backs that assertion that they are from Korea. The only reason why Japanese are divergent from Korea (their dual ancestry) is their interbreeding with the native Jomon population which were absorbed over time to the point they don't exist.
Anonymous No.17944005 >>17944383
>>17943961
>they are from Korea
Geographically they are from the Korean peninsula, but the nation of "Korea" did not exist and they were not "Korean".
They were by every conceivable definition not of "Korean ethnicity".
Anonymous No.17944383 >>17944388
>>17944005
They are through and through Korean. They hailed from the Korean States of Jin and Wa and even Gojoseon, many of them speaking both Korean and Japonic which is why early records in Yayoi period Japan were written in Korean and the ruling class also documented much in Korean while commoners mainly spoke the Japonic language.

Looking at the Yayoi archeological records and artifacts even show ties to Korean culture from the Peninsula. There is a reason why Korea has a huge impact on Japanese culture from the Yayoi period, they were both genetically & culturally thus ethnically Korean.
Anonymous No.17944388 >>17944394
>>17944383
Oh, it's a schizo. Nevermind then.
Anonymous No.17944394
>>17944388
Schizo? But nice rebuttal.
You can look up the data for yourself. Others can as well. I'll take that as you conceding because Japanese don't like to admit they are founded by Koreans.