Thread 17942893

There is no coherent argument against anti-natalism.

>>17942893 (OP)
Indeed.
/thread

>>17942893 (OP)
Life is Will to Power
Amor Fati
Antinatalism is Will to Nothingness (cowardice)

>>17942940
Nobody asked to be born and nobody has the obligation to put up with this shitty life.

>>17942944
>Nobody asked to be born
Prove it

>>17942944
you know can just... not have a shitty life, unless you are a deformed freak. 99% of "muh shitty life"-retards are at fault for their own misery because they lack the will and skill to overcome it
>>17942954
based

>>17942954
That would not refute moral nihilism.

>>17942954
What is nihilist kills you instead?

Based

The worst atrocity is having children

At best they'll be slaving the rest of their life paying tax to elite p*dos who get to live like evil gods. And that's in a first world country lmao.

>>17942954
Anti-natalists are not really moral nihalists, they're moral fanatics who take harm reduction to the extreme.

>>17942893 (OP)
anti-natalism is not a philosophy you retard, it describes a personal attitude or position regarding having children, there's no "coherent argument against" it because it's a personal choice, retard.

>>17942893 (OP)
Ok.
I will still have children though.
>But that's immoral and egotistic
Don't care. Refute this.

>>17943075
> https://iep.utm.edu/anti-natalism/
It's not just a choice, it's an entire philosophy.

>>17942893 (OP)
I bet tons of anti-natalists eats meat too

>>17943085
nothing you're exactly what a natalist looks like

just a hylic npc who doesn't care and just perpetuates the system

/thread

>>17942954
I am a nihilist, but also seek a comfortable end. Checkmate, cynical faggot.

>>17943122
too bad
you’re getting shot to death in an alley

>>17943133
No, u.

>>17942893 (OP)
If we don't reproduce, who will live to end suffering?

>>17942893 (OP)
>i will prevent unnecessary suffering by not procreating
>but not by killing myself or other because ???

>>17942893 (OP)
the pleasures and joys of living are better than non existence, but its not a garuntee everyone will experience them.

>>17942893 (OP)
The Bible says be fruitful and multiply. Just admit that you hate God, fag.

>>17942893 (OP)
>>17942944
If life bad why don't you kill yourself?

>>17942893 (OP)
On an individual level you simply have to argue that life is worth living, and therefore more life is worth creating. On a societal level you can argue that a larger population is better for a variety of reasons, such as economic growth or larger pool of talent to draw artists and scientists from.

>>17942893 (OP)
Something>Nothing. This is just a basic fact.

>>17942893 (OP)
Life is supposed to be hard. For life contains pain, one must affirm life by facing pain, or deciding he hates life itself and therefore choose death. A person who hates suffering is a dead man walking

>Amor Fati
This is just a secular version of the Christian idea that you're supposed to love the fate that befalls you as a part of God's plan.

>>17943949
If the saw trap is so bad why don't you just get out of it?

>>17944111
Got a different analogy? I never actually saw that movie.

>>17943085
I genuinely don't give a shit, and I imagine most anti-natalists, if they're serious wouldn't care either. I think the more psychotic ones would actually be glad to see you hold this stance, because it means your descendants will suffer in perpetuity for no good reason.

>>17943636
Killing yourself, or trying, can lead to an even larger amount of suffering, and since you'll die anyway, it's pointless to risk potentially becoming a vegetable and not being able to try again.

>>17944071
If you truly believed this then you'd find a labor camp to work to death in so you can ascend through suffering. This is the kind of logic a demon worshipper in a low tier fantasy story holds. Basically Slaanesh or Nurgle worship at this point .

>>17944846
Not a risk falling off a 200 ft cliff.
>Gun might not work
Don't be a retard with it, you know how to kill yourself properly with a gun
>>17944848
>All suffering is equal
There is a difference between getting sore from working out (which yes is still suffering) vs being in a Nazi concentration camp. Stop being disingenuous.

You antinatalists claim life is suffering. Yet suicide will just cause more suffering. Since life is fleeting anyway, killing yourself won't cause that much more suffering anyways you might as well do it since to you "life is bad"

>>17944854
>Not a risk
Nigga people have fallen off planes with their parachutes failing and lived. The rest of your life is not worth even a miniscule risk when death is already inevitable.
>All suffering is equal
I'm not, your logic is that suffering somehow builds something, what suffering in the context of a workout is is that your body isn't capable of properly building muscles without creating a pain reflex, which is nowhere near the same as the systemic horrific suffering that people are talking about when they describe bringing life into the world where right now millions across the globe are working to death for pennies. Life is suffering, commiting suicide will cause suffering to those around you, and if you die a natural death, you can ease that suffering, while also not doing anything extra to reach an end goal that is already guaranteed. In fact, just the fact that death is a guarantee, and you see it as bad, yet are willing to subject your own children to it kind of feeds into the argument. I suppose if you literally have no one who cares about you, suicide is the way to go, but even then the miniscule suffering caused by the millions of years of instincts that have been bred into you to not die is enough to be a pass on that instead of just waiting for the end which is promised to you from birth.

>>17942893 (OP)
>There is no coherent argument against anti-natalism.

Only whites are intelligent enough to grasp the concept.

Antinatalism presupposes negative utilitarianism as the accepted moral framework. If you accept negative utilitarianism then yes, antinatalism is difficult to argue against. But if you don't accept NU then antinatalism has zero argumentative force.

>>17944990
You're using buzzwords to hide your lack of argument.

>>17944993
just because you don’t understand the words doesn’t mean they’re buzzwords

Buzzwords is just a buzzword. Come up with a substantial response next time.

>>17944996
I understand them, you're just using them like buzzwords to avoid constructing a genuine argument. Here I can do it too
>Your argument is based entirely on reductionism, if I don't buy into your reductionism then your argument simply doesn't make sense, and has no value in being refuted because it stands on no grounds other than the narrow definitions you force your opposition to fit in order to be capable of refuting them.
Anyone who does this kind of thing is just huffing their own farts.

>>17945015
here, I’ll translate his argument

you are gay and retarded

>>17945022
Aww, gonna cry? Gonna call me a poppy head next?

If you cannot allow your self to to engage with the notion that morality can be based on different principles and value systems which can exclude each other, and that antinatalism embraces the one broadly called negative utilitarianism, then you should skip this topic.

If you cannot form an argument without using buzzwords, or replying to your opponent, perhaps you should stay silent.

Buzzword is just a buzzword. NU is no more buzzword than antinatalism is. Try provide substance next time.

>>17942944
>nobody has the obligation to put up with this shitty life
Nobody stopping you from killing yourself either, and yet you won't stop the unnecessary suffering you pretend to care about.
You're just a treacherous rat looking to convince others to snuff their lines out.

>>17942893 (OP)
Non-existing people have not consent on remaining non-existing, so keeping them in that state, negating them the chance to choose is unethical and a form of metaphysical rape that can only be minimized by birthing ass many people as possible

>>17942944
Literally just die, we don’t want you around, antinatalists claim to hold their viewpoints because we have too many people but they never have the balls to fix the problem directly by killing themselves

>>17945060
If you're putting them in a body that will, as a result of its instincts make them avoid the idea of self termination unless placed in the worst of conditions(even then many still don't have the bravery to commit, showing the sheer biological bias involved) then you are not giving them a free choice, and the non-existing do not have a right to choosing non existence, they do not exist, so choices are irrelevant, and whether they exist or don't exist is similarly irrelevant to their state of being as they have no form, or will to seek or want to make a choice.

>>17942893 (OP)
Easy argument. If life bad and there is nothing you can do to change that, why haven't you killed yourself?

>>17945094
Thousands kill themselves everyday. If life is truly suffering like you claim they can kill themselves using free will

>>17945060
>so keeping them in that state
There is no "they" since they do not exist. You cannot ask permission from nothing. They do not have a right in the decision making since they do not exist.
>that's unjust
No it isn't. Cry about it.

>>17942893 (OP)
why does the bottom of this pic not include the most common strawman employed against anti-natalism
>if you hate suffering so much then kys

It makes sense only if morality is objective but it isn't. Lol who cares make baby cause body make me do it

not my problem

>>17944921
>In fact, just the fact that death is a guarantee, and you see it as bad, yet are willing to subject your own children to it kind of feeds into the argument
Dead on, thank you so much. I would add that once as a group (maybe all humans) we get rid of this fear of death and all the bullshit we perpetrate to overpower it, then maybe the Earth will be a good enough to bring new people on it without a second thought.

>>17942893 (OP)
There's no coherent argument because there's no need to argue. You have to convince people to be anti-natalist in the first place because it's a completely ass backwards idea that can only take root in total losers.

>>17942944
Kill yourself and spare others you cowardice and resentment

>>17945477
So you wouldn't be opposed to say suicide clinics?

>>17942893 (OP)
One thing for men who don’t want to be fathers to consider is that, as you get older, the women in your dating pool who won’t want kids will get smaller and smaller until you’re left with only menopausal age women. But there really isn’t any point in dating a menopausal woman so you’re basically saying that you want to be alone forever. Unless you’re able to pull college-age girls well into your middle age, your need for female companionship will become increasingly filled by either mentally unstable leftist cat ladies or divorcees who have their own kids and baggage. So you’re increasing your personal risk of exposure to drama and mental illness and potentially violence as these women are often psychologically unhealthy and will lash out at you (or who have ex-husbands who are still in the picture). Is this the life you want? Your choices will become, if they aren’t already, aging childless women (most of whom skew liberal), divorced single mothers, or potentially up to a half century of being alone. I recommend younger women but that is easier said than done for most men.

>>17943057
Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

>>17942954
Go ahead, make my day.

If not being alive is better then kill yourself.

>>17943607
It’s an inherently omnicidal view. The idea of existence being suffering and that preventing new life removes it. It’s mostly held by jaded people that let their own issues and experiences blind them to the world at large.

The most coherent answer to antinatalism is the death drive culture. Vikings basically solved it 1000 years ago. Instead of creating the environment where everyone neurotically fears death and lives in endless fear, you create a culture which sees death as the final achievement and the crowning moment of life. You cannot claim that bringing children into the world is an immoral act if those children are automatically equipped with the ability to return back to the void with a smile.

>>17942893 (OP)
If only third worlders had the thought process of the woman on the top

One thing I never understood is religious natalist. Why have children on earth where there is the opportunity for them to fall so deep into sin that they will be tortured forever when you could just die and go to heaven yourself?

>>17946062
You can be happy and anti-natalist. I enjoy my life very much, but I also know that a lot of y happiness is based on the luck of the draw. I could have been a starving 8 year old in Gaza with a IDF missile headed my way. Instead I'm in America jacking off to porn with a full belly.

>>17946280
The Bible literally says to be fruitful and multiply

>>17946301
But you don't have to. As far as I know its not a damnable sin to not have kids.

>>17946301
The New Testament seems to have a positive view of remaining celibate though, which implies not having children.

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.

1 Corinthians 7:7-9
I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

And the Old Testament includes some of the clearest outright antinatalist sentiment in the Bible.

Ecclesiastes 4:1-3
I saw the tears of the oppressed—and they have no comforter; power was on the side of their oppressors—and they have no comforter. And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are
happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.

>>17942954
How do you refute nihilism by killing nihilists

>>17942893 (OP)
>There is no coherent argument against anti-natalism.

Of course there is... non whites are abhorrent subhumans and they should all be medically sterilized in order to prevent their spread.

>>17944848
The point isnt to ascend through suffering, or to ascend at all, but to just acept life as it is, to accept the pain.

>>17942893 (OP)
So kill yourself.

>>17942893 (OP)
I dunno, don't the Hindus believe you'd just incarnate as a beetle or something instead? That sounds kinda shitty to me.

>>17946280
>You can be happy and anti-natalist
Contradictory to your core belief that life is suffering. If life is suffering then it is impossible to be happy according to your logic.

>>17946280
>I could have
No reason to worry about something you cannot control.

>>17947180
Nah life can be good, bad and everything in between. My life has been very good, but I know most of it is luck and wouldn't gamble with someone else's existence. For all I know God and hell are real and my children will suffer forever because they fornicate or something.

>>17947246
So you teach them properly not to fornicate then.

>>17946997
they stop existing, therefore they are unable to affirm the argument

>>17947863
So why not kill the natalists as well? And their kids?

>>17942893 (OP)
One thing antinatalists never bring up (unless they're principled, i knew two and still disagreed) is oftentimes the biggest proponents of its ideology 1) never address its a thinly veiled attempt at reducing European birth rates and 2) oftentimes essentially carry a lot of shitlib baggage otherwise, in the sense it somehow liberates women from childbirth, and essentially celebrates unrestricted hedonism. You'll never see a single one bring this up.

>>17948143
Furthermore, a Jungian interpretation can view antinatalism and hedonism as complimentary ideologies, a life denying drive with a life affirming drive in the shadows. The specific calls by some antinatalists to prioritize all human suffering at the expense of the suffering of a specific group is classic example of what Proudhon explained about invocation of humanity.

since the thawing of the permafrost i have no faith that we will ever address the climate crisis. it’s funny how 20-30 years ago this was considered one of the last points of no return. and today it’s being discussed like it’s a new phenomenon, we are truly fucked

>>17948131
they’ll just make more kids, that’s what they do

>>17942893 (OP)
I think suffering is better than not existing

>>17948203
right, and the return of christ is near.

Don't forget the most important rule of life: Nothing ever happens.

>>17942893 (OP)
Here is my gymnastic, I am producing off springs so I can drink milk from my wife's tits.

>>17942893 (OP)
Your morals are arbitrary.
You cannot prove that “suffering” is so “bad” that someone who would have children is “evil” for doing so.

If it’s your instinct to have children, and you’re just an animal like the rest, this is amoral rather than immoral. You fucking faggot retard.

>>17948203
I, for one, welcome the return to the Jurassic
Maybe you’re just a faggot lol.
We should bring back dinosaurs too so they can populate the gigaforests of future lol fag

>>17942893 (OP)
Suffering is good.

>>17948625
Enjoy being tortured.

>>17948630
>what is good must be pleasurable
Pathetic.

>>17948630
>oh wow im so suffering working out. My arms hurt from lifting weights. This means all life is bad because I feel pain
You are fucking weak. Mam the fuck up and stop being a pussy.

I simply refuse to make my child suffer through my inadequacies. I would rather not have a child than raise one that will grow up with a shitty dad. I'm not doing it.
This thread is stupid though. Half of you will die virgins.

>>17949875
It sound rather like you're so not mature enough to bear responsibility for the parental failures you (and everyone else) will commit. Dressing it up in tragic "oh no a child could never" just comforts your ego, makes you feel virtuous about something that is actually entirely egoistic.

>>17949884
Yeah, I'm not mature or mentally fit enough to raise a child. I'm not making any excuses, I just don't want to force my potential progeny deal with that shit.
I don't know how calling myself a genetic dead end comforts my ego, but ok dude.

>>17949904
>I just don't want to force my potential progeny deal with that shit.
See, you're doing it again. You're making it seem like your motivation is to ease someone else's suffering when in actuality it's to ease your own.

>>17949911
And you want a child so you can live out a dream that died with modernity. A vicarious idiot who thinks progeny is the end all be all. I can flip this shit on you to, faggot.

>>17949917
And I will own my egoism without dressing it up in empathy towards the non-existent.

>>17949922
You will bring a child into a doomed world. I only hope he see the beginning.

>>17942893 (OP)
The argument is simple. Human life is the only life that matters in this universe, we're the apex species, and we need to go on ad infinatum whether people enjoy it or not, and whether people want to or not. We'll drag them all kicking and screaming into the future and even de-brownify the planet in nuclear fire if that's what it takes. What other argument do you need?

>>17949924
I've been waiting for this doom for over 25 years. So far so good. Again, we're not here competing in empathy towards the non-existent. It's by definition a non-metric.

>>17949911
Why not both? Ease someone else's suffering and ease your own as a bonus. Or the reverse, whichever is more significant to someone.

>>17949931
Either way, Your son will live in bad times. And if he suffers the cruelest of fates you will have nobody but yourself to blame.
Besides that, like it or not, we are already in a massive birth decline, something that will get worse before it gets better.

>>17949934
In my experience when two motivations are plausible, the more self-congratulatory one is usually bullshit. Not necessarily outright false, but definitely bullshit.

>>17949943
My son will live in great times too. I don't really play the blame game, although if that is the only mode of analysis available to someone, I understand why anti-natalism feels convenient.
>>massive birth decline
Huh? Why would I care? I'm not being condescending, I'm just not sure what was being communicated there.

>>17949951
Do you think the birth decline is purely performative? The reason there is a decline is because of numerous aggressive factors limiting peoples ability to start families. You have a wife, buddy?

>>17949945
If both motivations are plausible, how do you come to determine which one is the genuine one, especially often enough to become confident in your ability to diagnose the motives of strangers on the internet? To me it sounds like you might have gotten into a self-confirmation feedback loop. People do sometimes avoid doing things mainly out of a genuine interest in the wellbeing of others or at least out of a fairly even balance of self-interest and other-interest in a way where the latter isn't just a mask for the former.

>>17949966 (cont.)
Btw if me psychoanalyzing is annoying, that's what motivated me to respond. Someone thinking they know someone else's mind better than they do is annoying.

>>17949961
No, I think it's part and parcel of a mature society that people now get to maintain unconventional lifestyles, such as never marrying and having children. There are many more "aggressive factors" in dirt poor countries and they're having children by the dozens. I don't have a wife, no.

>>17949966
>If both motivations are plausible, how do you come to determine which one is the genuine one
The post you're replying to explains this.
> People do sometimes avoid doing things mainly out of a genuine interest in the wellbeing of others or at least out of a fairly even balance of self-interest
When it comes to major things, quite rarely.
>To me it sounds like you might have gotten into a self-confirmation feedback loop.
Could be. But I doubt it, seeing that my conclusion isn't just based on introspection, but on various prisoner dilemma situations I've been in my whole life plus therapist opinions. I'm not saying this cynically or to undercut faith in humanity. There is no shame in being motivated by your own desires, comforts and limitations. There's just a lot of bs around them.

>>17949987
You're not even remotely psychoanalyzing.

>>17950009
The "aggressive factors" in Africa is why the have children by the dozens. It's survival. However, you do not live in Africa and you will find the same difficulty starting a family like everyone else in the first world.

>>17950037
Right, so if the same factors are the reason of outstandingly high birth rates as well as unusually low birth rates then it's likely not about those factors. Anyway, I'm sure I'll face one challenge or another. That's life. The goal isn't to avoid challenges, it's to make them worth it. Everyone I know has managed so far, I'm not extremely worried desu.

>>17950046
You're presuming the factors I'm talking about ever applied to Africa, or African factors ever applied to us. They do not have our trappings, they do not have our problems.

>>17950068
My nigga, what are our problems, be specific. Can't afford life basics? Africa has that. Can't find a perspectival or even a stable job? Africa has that. Can't find a woman who'll settle? Can't be sure of political stability? Feeling an overwhelming sense of isolation and dread? Africa has all that. Don't be telling me about some vague "aggressive factors" that even Africa is potentially spared from... tell me what you mean because from where I'm standing we have it better than 99% of all humanity in history so if that's not good enough for you, that's not the system's fault, those are your personal limitations. Accept your limits and move on.

>>17942954
But isn't a refutation of moral nihilism. Even if you think that life is meaningless and that morality doesn't matter, it doesn't mean that you want to die.

>>17950077
Affluence, contraception, Feminism, housing crisis, growing isolationist tendencies, general sexlessness overall, and corporate culture. Numerous more I can't think of. You are right, we are a 'mature' society. Old.
Africa is an undeveloped continent, they barely even live in modernity. What you listed, well except for the middle bits but those don't even apply to Africa, don't significantly effect things like birth rates.
>where I'm standing we have it better than 99% of all humanity in history so if that's not good enough for you
What? No shit we have it better than anyone in history. I never even implied otherwise. That doesn't mean there aren't fucking flaws. Not that I even consider birth decline a flaw. That's an inevitability.

>>17942940
Idk, I think killing yourself takes a lot more courage than busting inside a chick. Have you ever tried? It isn't easy.

>>17942954
you touched a nerve

>>17949924
>doomed world
2 more weeks?

>>17950109
So because life is imperfect life isn’t worth living?

>>17946048
>The solution to this is marriage, you see.
Yeah nah

>>17942940
>Antinatalism is Will to Nothingness (cowardice)
Will to Power is not a conscious will you idiot. Which youtuber taught you to use these words?

simple if you dont want to live then just die.
omg I dont want to be here, then leave dumbass.
omg but I dont want to die, then dont???
b-but you made me live!!! and you are choosing to live, dumb ass

if life was soo unbearable and not worth it you would kill your self, dumb ass

p.s the only people supporting anti-natalism are rich people trying to kill poor people.
dumb ass

>>17942893 (OP)
The problem of suffering is a problem for being, you dont just get rid of existence because theirs a problem within it. Thats like denouncing a particular type of food because you got food poisoning once, how about choosing a better restaurant or a better chef, either way the problem isnt the food.

>>17950293
No, I just think we're approaching a period of significant upheaval and that, coupled with my own personal hesitations of being a father, I would rather just die without a child.

the reason smart countries are actually shit for population but shit 3rd world ones have rising populations are

first world countries require smart labor but punish smart people for wanting families and gate keep having children.
unless you are poor and stupid then it actually encourages you to have stupid children

where Africa is a dumb country that requires dumb labor
their standard of life is shit and all they have to do is basic hand farming and weaving baskets
they get to make all the dumb babies they want

first world countries pop go down while 3rd worlds go up

>>17950496
Even places like India are now at the edge of replacement level. It's just Africa now basically.

>>17942940
based

anti-natalist cope and dialate

>>17942893 (OP)
They should kill themselves if they hate life so much, simple as. The struggle is the value. Life would degenerate if not for pressure; this is the point. I will win, I will fuck your onisits you hold on to life for

>>17943115
Also this, the trap they fall into is placing primary moral value on suffering. for the most part anti natalists are feminine boys (not even men) and fat women. It's the only way you could see the world like this, its just feminine instinct to big for its britches.

The developed world is too soft to make boys into men by default. So you get these retards with adult intellect but childish desires

>>17944846
This is actually cope, kys retard

>>17950109
Most of these are present in Africa.
I definitely wouldn't describe "general sexlessness overall" and "corporate culture" as aggressive factors interfering with families.

>>17948625
Yes, it is. I had one of pic rel, it was the happiest times of my life, even if it was unimaginably painful. resentment and woe-is-meism is way worse.

>>17950477
>significant upheaval
Where?

There's no logical reason you should support anti-natalism while refusing to kill yourself. If you can somehow find an excuse to keep living despite being a miserable nihilist then you have no right to say people should never have been born. You're just a coward who wants everybody to commit suicide with you.

>>17944846
>b-but I might suffer if I try to kill myself!
So what? A brief moment of suffering vs an infinite eternity of non-suffering in death.

>>17942893 (OP)
Anti-natalism is good but only for certain peoples

>>17942902
>Threading your own posts
Any man who /threads/ their own post has no faith in the strength their own opinion.

>>17951444
>all suffering is equal
Retard. There is a difference between suffering for something vs just being in a torture situation (which 99% of people do not relate to)
Here is an example. A parent loosing sleep to care for their crying child is a form of good suffering. Working out and feeling how sore your muscles are after is a form of good suffering. Your cherry picked "whoa is me" bullshit is just moronic and disingenuous and you know it.

Anti natalists dont make any sense because if they were right it would objectevly be reflected in nature.
And we don't see that in fact we see the opposite.
And you know what's funny?
Nature is cruel to the msx, yet it's creatures still are coded to reproduce.
The only conclusion we can get from that is that while suffering is bad, it doesn't even matter, creatures will continue to reproduce, and this dosen't even change for humans.
In fact the opossite, humans can suffer in even more terrible ways, yet what we see in the historical record is they will still choose to bring life into the world.
Now you could argue this is an argument to nature, but..
While you are right, when you have everything going against your own philosophy, maybe the problem is you not the world.

>>17942893 (OP)
What is happy? What is good? What is suffering? Who defines it?

>>17951530
nigga, I was shitting myself to death because my immune system short-circuited and attacked my colon. I still have bad knees that hurt every day. There was no reason for me to have a fistula. I know what senseless torture is, the doctor who operated on me said I was the worst case she had seen in her career; And let me tell you, you're a bitch, whao is you faggot

There is something purifying about pain your weak mind will never understand you resentful cuck

Every day I would wake up, shit myself half to death, ride my bike to work, at a food warehouse where I would painfully shit blood every time I bent over, then ride my bike home and then still work out 4 or 5 times a week. It was the hardest part of my life.

We are happiest the closest we are to failure

You are afraid of death, you stupid, lazy, resentful, hedonistic, useless nigress

>>17942893 (OP)
If you operate from a negative dialectic characteristic of certain intellectual schools from the early-mid 20th century, then sure, there is no coherent argument. But there are such intrinsic flaws to thinking like this, and a genuine darkness at the core of it, that entertaining it even briefly or as a more moderate species leads one down a path of annihilation whether the thinker realizes it or not.

>>17943950
>>17943990
>>17944071
>>17945352
>>17945333
>>17948143
>>17952352
>>17951586
Sorry, why are you all continuing the thread as if it was not definitely answered in >>17943940?

>>17952069
>Every day I would wake up, shit myself half to death, ride my bike to work, at a food warehouse where I would painfully shit blood every time I bent over,
Got me 10/10 lmao

>>17951444
were you taking opioids?

>>17951522
We don't know what happens when we die. Maybe we're in a game and when you kill yourself you leave the game and get a low score in real life and you'll feel bad and want to kill yourself in that one too, because having a low score means reputable banks won't lend you money, only sharks will, and then you kill yourself and go to hell for eternity.

>>17951516
Possibly worldwide with "softer" oil and globalization dismounts here and there.

>i was born
>i am depressed
>therefore no one should have kids
so extinction of the human race in 120~ years is your answer? what about the suffering of animals?
at least be consistent, advocate for nuking the entire planet and the extinction of all life on Earth.

of course, we will have to find all the other planets in the universe that contain life and nuke them too, or else suffering will continue

>>17943940
God isn't real

>>17952449

Precisely. Perhaps we can build some sort of self-propagating machine that seeks out signs of life and launches an army of murderous robots to snuff it out wherever it's found.

>>17952432
So nothing huh?

>>17942893 (OP)
I don't want society to collapse because there isn't a new generation to support the old one.

>>17949556
your standard of suffering is working out?
more evidence that le suffering is good fags have never actually experienced true suffering.

>>17953042
No true scotsman fallacy.

>>17953042
Why do you think all suffering is equal? Why is stabbing your toe exactly the same as getting skinned alive?

>>17953055
kek actually doubling down here.
that informal fallacy doesn't even make sense when the average person wouldn't even consider someone who goes to gym as having a life of suffering.

>>17943940
Using God as the main reason makes it inarguably worse because 99.99% of people to ever exist are just gonna end up in hell which is nothing but pure suffering for eternity which just magnifies anti-natalism way more because it just means that most people to ever exist would be better off existing and creating more people is just bringing more into the eternal torture

>>17952366
here's my counter argument >>17953071

>>17952378
naw dude, im being serious. I had severe, untreated Crohn's desise

>>17942902
Fpwp
Have sex

>>17942893 (OP)
As long as it doesn't extend to non-humans, I like antinatalism. The human species has been an abysmal failure. Industrialization has been a cancer that has destroyed human autonomy and freedom.

nah i don't like anti-natalistism simply because non existence scares me, i prefer being over non being because at least with being you can have an opportunity to shine the darkness of the cold universe

>euthanasia
>Ethnic cleansing
> Reincarnation
All comprehensible. No anger.
>Simply not having a kid because you know it'll fuck their life up.
YOU SHOULD KILL YOURSELF!!!

definitely no projection going on here.

>>17942893 (OP)
>I choose to have children because I want children
>I am the master of my domain and therefore it shall be so
This is all the reasoning you need and as much as you can try to cope, there's nothing that will change it. If you had to read a book or a forum post to form an opinion, it's not your opinion, it's a fashion accessory. Like a neon hat that reads "CUNT" across it in sequins.

Eugenics to weed out shitty parenting/mentorship both of the abusive/toxic and overly permissive/liberal kind might be the answer.

>>17950108
People are retarded and can only think in black and white

>>17953279
Why do you care about humans if you want them extinct?

>>17942965
Nihilists? Fuck me...I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude. At least it's an ethos.

>>17945060
These individuals do not exist. They are by their inherent nature a negate so there is no asking for their consent.
>only be minimized by birthing ass many people as possible
This is a fatalist solution and by your argument on consent would ignore their consent on whether they wanted to be born in the first place.

>>17952366
Most of us are not jewish and so therefore are not christcucks

>>17943122
I'll kill you comfortably, via carbon monoxide poisoning while you sleep

>>17950108
If life doesn't matter why do you care if you stop living?

>>17947180
>be hindu
>die
>become cow
>your crush finally wants to fuck you because you are a brahmin
gg ez

>>17953952
Shit meant for >>17947067

>>17953176
Tell me how a perspective makes your thoughts superior?

If you're an anti-natalist you should just kill yourself right now and save the Earth some carbon
Prove you really mean it

>>17953946
Life does matter, but it doesn't have a meaning by itself, (You) have to create this meaning.

>>17942893 (OP)
There is. It entirely depends on a uni-dimensional analysis (minimising suffering) and it concludes we ought to benefit a non-existent benefactor (a child that will never exist). Said simply, it's a poor analysis with an incoherent conclusion.

>>17953071
>9.99% of people to ever exist are just gonna end up in hell which is nothing but pure suffering for eternity
Small problem: Those people don't matter.

>>17954808
>Small problem: Tho- AHHHHHHH AGHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHH IT BURNS!!!!

>>17953968
I lived through torture and hell; it's purifying and good. Negative utilitarianism is gay, im better than you for thriving under excruciating pain where whereas you live a normal, comfy life that hate. im telling you that your viewpoint is retarded because you are weak and have no real perspective on pain. Why speak of things you know nothing about?

I would do it again if I were to be born again. Pain isn't bad, it's only bad for weak people. Suffering is a state of mind that you choose when you take on vanities.

>>17955728
You sound like you're coping with the fact that your ass shat itself in public everyday and saw it as making you stronger rather than just being painfully humiliated. You're also essentially saying that you as a person is worth more than him even though more often than not trauma of any form leaves a person worse off than before.

>>17956316
naw dude, you're a bitch, trials make people stronger and better even if they break you. They force you to contend with yourself and the world in its most difficult form. Growth is paid for in blood. sweat or tears, and if you can't handle that, you will continue to be an infantile loser who can't bear his own existence.

What are you? a woman? a child? a coward?

My experience with this extreme pain and hardship taught me something of life you wouldn't understand.

not worth more, but certainly a better man. superior in ability and more qualified to speak on the moral value of pain as I know her better.

>>17956411
>naw dude, you're a bitch, trials make people stronger and better even if they break you.
you are literally not stronger if you get broken though