Thread 17946340

Matthew 15:1-4
Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

>>17946340 (OP)
Jesus identified as a they/them (father and mother)

He's probably calling them hypocrites. I'm more interested in what happens after

>21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.

>22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

>23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

>24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

>25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

>26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

>>17946379
LMAO

>>17946379
You really have to wonder how this episode made the cut for inclusion.

>>17946379
Imagine being a Christian and being considered a dog by Jesus.

>>17946379
Retard.
>27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

>28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

A gentile calls on to the so-called Messiah (Lord, Son of David) who is supposedly only going to be helping Jews, asking for help. He tests her faith by parroting the Pharisee belief on the Messiah and following with an analogy which represents it. The woman objects to it, saying that the Messiah, the "master", should help gentiles as well, passing his test.

>>17946522
He was testing her and afterwards blessed her for her humility. We're all like dogs licking our own vomit without the Word, not just some woman.

>>17946540
>you have to humiliate yourself because you are a Greek woman grovelling in front of the chosen before your suffering child gets some assistance
Jesus said everything the Pharisees preach is true and binding upon you btw. And what you said doesn't even make sense, she didn't object to it she made it known that she accepts her place as a dog. But dogs deserve some love too

>>17946561
>Jesus said everything the Pharisees preach is true and binding upon you btw
Yup, yup!

>>17946563
>Didn't read the following sentence award.

>>17946575
They don't practice their teachings, they are hypocrites just like you because you don't practice what Jesus commands (their teachings)

>>17946583
/thread

>>17946540
>He tests her faith by parroting the Pharisee belief on the Messiah and following with an analogy which represents it.
That's extremely charitable of you.

>>17946544
Christianity, everybody.

>>17946561
>Jesus said everything the Pharisees preach is true and binding upon you btw.
That was said to the crowd at the time, since the Pharisees and scribes were civil authorities, similar to how Christ said they should render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

>And what you said doesn't even make sense, she didn't object to it she made it known that she accepts her place as a dog.
In Isaiah 41:14, He called Jacob a worm.

As the Creator of the universe, Jesus Christ can call us anything He wants. To me however, being called a "worm", honestly seems to be worse than what He said to the woman in Matthew 15. Maybe the Lord simply didn't want to give worm food to someone who wouldn't benefit from it.

>>17946772
>That was said to the crowd at the time
You mean like everything else Jesus says in the bible, what a ridiculous cope. If you want to go that route then Jesus was only preaching to the twelve. Not you!
>worm is more insulting than bitch (female dog)
lmao, nice one cuckboy! He didn't call his Israelite followers dogs only Greeks. And he made sure she knew her position as being under the table like the other bitches of the chosen.

>>17946823
>If you want to go that route then Jesus was only preaching to the twelve.
Depends on the context. I know that's hard for someone with no reading comprehension skills or maybe who just doesn't want to understand, but that's what it is.

>>17946617
How much better than a dog is a self-assured heathen?

>>17946885
Almost immeasurably better.

>>17946861
Sure thing bro, you know you just pulled it out of your ass. That's what christard apologetics seems to be these days
>>17946885
Are you happy with being called a dog?

>>17946492
The most interesting suggestions I've come across explaining this story as a non-historical event are:

1. In its earlier form in Mark, it's a reference to the story of Elijah asking for bread from the widow at Zarephath, but with Jesus playing the role of the widow and the woman playing the role of Elijah on behalf of all gentiles, and the miracle (translated from a neverending supply of flour and oil to there being more than enough salvation for Jews and gentiles alike, even if, contrary to expectation, the gentiles would end up being given priority) left implicit.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2017%3A7-16&version=NRSVUE

And, under this view, Matthew's version doubles down on Jesus rejecting the woman compared to Mark because, uh... whoever wrote Matthew's version of the story was just racist, idk.

[1/2]

>>17946910
2. Even Mark's version isn't quite original, and they're both modifications of an earlier Simonian gospel story that, in a well-disguised way, referred to Simon Magus meeting the prostitute Helena, whom he thought of as his "lost sheep" and who he believed was the reincarnation of Helen of Troy (Or something like that. To the extent that Simon's character can be assigned to some historical person, we know he loved allegories, and beyond that we're getting his ideas through a temporally-distant heresiologist filter.) Bizarre, yes, but there are points in favor it.

One decently strong coincidence on its side is that, in the Illiad, Helen of Troy uniquely refers to herself as a dog not only once but several times (picrel), so, in calling herself a dog, the woman in the story might be understood as indirectly identifying herself with Helen of Troy. And that it seemed like she was denigrating herself when, for those who have ears to hear, she was kinda doing the opposite (Helen of Troy was supposed to be the most beautiful woman ever) is exactly the sort of thing that the irony-loving original author of the gospel which became Mark might've enjoyed writing.

This view might also explain why Matthew's version doubles down on Jesus wanting nothing to do with the woman over Mark, if what happened is that Matthew went overboard trying to "correct" the original story. That might also explain why Matthew apparently felt the need to change her from being a Hellene, as in Mark, to a Canaanite.

For more on that, scroll down to RParvus' comment here https://vridar.org/2025/02/14/not-finding-the-first-jesus-look-for-the-last/

[2/2]

>>17946913
>That might also explain why Matthew apparently felt the need to change her from being a Hellene, as in Mark, to a Canaanite.
Syrophoenicia was one part of the region known as Canaan. And some Greeks lived in Syrophoenicia at that time.

>>17946893
Prove it.

>>17946909
>Are you happy with being called a dog?
Are you happy self reporting as missing the point entirely?

>>17946928
Sorry, geography is not my specialty and I think I wrongly simplified what RParvus pointed out. The oddity might instead be that Mark calls her a Hellene/Greek at all, since he then says she was Phoenician by race, and Tyre, where Jesus meets her, is in Phoenicia. So where does the Hellene/Greek part come in? Many translators assume that Mark just meant gentile and translate it as such, but he uses the normal word for gentile elsewhere so it's still odd.

In that case, though, Matthew would just be making an understandable simplification, doing away with Mark calling her a Hellene for no obvious reason.

>>17946998
I didn't miss the point. It's just sad you are proud of being called a servant dog for the chosen. You actually think it is better than being a free pagan man

>>17946913
>>17947018
Oh, another really strong point of connection is that according to Irenaeus, Simon Magus met Helena in Tyre, the same place as in the story in the gospels.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103123.htm
>Now this Simon of Samaria, from whom all sorts of heresies derive their origin, formed his sect out of the following materials: Having redeemed from slavery at Tyre, a city of Phœnicia, a certain woman named Helena, he was in the habit of carrying her about with him, declaring that this woman was the first conception of his mind, the mother of all, by whom, in the beginning, he conceived in his mind [the thought] of forming angels and archangels.

>>17947076
So on the one hand we have Jesus meeting a Phoenician woman in Tyre/Phoencia, who is mysteriously also called a Hellene, and she accepts being called a dog like Helen of Troy. And on the other hand we Simon Magus meeting a woman named Helena in Tyre who he believed was the reincarnation of Helen of Troy. Coincidence? Maybe, but it doesn't have to be.

>>17947050
I'm not a pagan, so pride is not my MO. Pagans are slaves to all things egotistical and material. Even a dog is more free than you.

It's saying that God is more important than silly traditions.

>>17947121
>the buckbroken chirstcuck is raped so thoroughly he thinks it's okay to be called a dog as long as he also gets to eat Jewish crumbs and service them under the table
lmao

>>17947187
paganism is gay and you are either an atheist, a muslim, or a jew

>>17947211
anything is better than a golem, but speaking of gays... how many couples did you personally bless again?

>>17947229
I bless you even though you are gay. Be blessed anon

>>17947267
>even though
Why would that ever be a problem for a christian? it's standard practice for homosexuals to bless themselves

>>17947284
you being gay is first and foremost problem for you

>>17947285
no sorry I am not christian, leave the choir boys alone faggot

>>17947294
didn't Odin like slurp literal semen?

>>17947306
Yes he did! But Christian men love their fair share of dick too.

>>17947187
meanwhile moslems kneel before a mans ass, kikes dance like monkeys and "pagans" worship faggot queer "Gods".

>>17947313
>Yes he did!

man that's embarassing. gave me an instant ick

>>17947314
Christians literally do all that ahaha
>>17947315
>"A common test for foreskinned authenticity [in medieval times] was taste. A physician, supervised by a priest, sampled the skin for the flavor of genuine holiness. The taster was called a croque-prépuce, or ‘foreskin cruncher.’"[13]

>>17947328
>>"A common test for foreskinned authenticity [in medieval times] was taste. A physician, supervised by a priest, sampled the skin for the flavor of genuine holiness. The taster was called a croque-prépuce, or ‘foreskin cruncher.’"[13]

sounds like something made up by 18th century "enlighteners"

hey come back little homo fedora! I wanted to commend you for having such a collection on your hard drive and totally not wasting your life

>>17947335
>it's made up because it exposes the homosexuality of a cult focused around worshiping a man
cope
>>17947397
You're just mad you keep talking out of your ass. But do not worry other Christians do the exact same thing!

>>17947424
so you confirmed everything I said. good job faggy!

>>17947430
I am not the one sucking on the foreskin of innocent boys. Is that why Paul was so scared of circumcision? He must have liked it cheesy like the Christians who refused to bathe

>>17947440
>I am not the one sucking on the foreskin of innocent boys.

I bet. Being so butthurt only means you are the bottom

Would you let Jesus touch you with his dirty poo riddled hands just to do away with a bump or bruise, or would you rather take the lump?

>>17947445
>using gay terminology
wow tell me more about your culture christcuck

>>17947475
I read none of the pics you posted and neither has anyone on the whole of 4chan. I think I had a similar "debate" with you years ago (on pol probably), it's sad to see you haven't matured by a single day

>>17947476
>christian can't read
As expected, I don't post on your containment board schizo. Go back there and jerk off with the other larping christian identitroon nazis

>>17947485
I hope you win one day, son

>>17947487
I already did. Your cult is humiliated and you are unable to defend it

>>17947490
you are a mess, dear boy. you are fighting a made up straw man enemy while ruining and humiliating only yourself. I hope you can get out of this developmental crisis

>>17947497
Every accusation is a confession, how can you be so predictable?
>get out of this developmental crisis
Christianity did and now it is in decline. Looks like you really need to feel like victims

>>17946340 (OP)
Child murder encouraged by Jesus??!!

christian revolts in rome and BLM riots in america are fruits of the same jewish tree

>>17947485
>Pic
Those who claim to be Jews today have no connection to the ancient people group called Israel or Jews.

>>17947490
The groups in your picture are fake though.

>>17946910
I rushed through the justification of 1. here. In fact IIRC the interpretation goes that the neverending flour and oil supply part of the Elijah story should be connected with the bread-multiplying miracles which the story of Jesus and the Syrophoenician woman happens between, where the numbers involved in the first bread multiplying-miracle, (5 and 12, maybe like the five books of the torah and the twelve tribes of Israel) perhaps represent teaching given to the Jews, and the numbers involved in the second bread-multiplying miracles (4 and 7) perhaps represent teaching given to the gentiles. And that the miracles are non-literal and the numbers mean something cand be discerned from Mark 8, where jesus says "no sign will be given to this generation" (immediately after performing a miracle?!) and where Jesus gets frustrated with his disciples for not understanding the meanings of the numbers. And the case for this allegorical interpretation should be made even better somewhere online, so that's probably enough spoonfeeding of the non-interested for now.