Thread 17947231

>Of course I forgive those who repent in Hell, my love and mercy are not finite.
How do you respond without sounding mad?

>>17947231 (OP)
What incentive would God have to punish or reward his creation after they die? Is life itself really not enough for you cunts?! Religious thinkers are really the ultimate narcissists.

His love and mercy is infinite
But the keyword is "Repent"
No repentance without acknowledging that you are wrong

>>17947231 (OP)
that's perfectly ok, i'm pretty sure most won't repent tho

>>17947253
The question is, why you don't want a supreme judge to exist

>>17947325
He wants to live in sin but not feel the consequences simple as

By this logic, technically everyone can be saved.

>>17947341
That is literally what the bible says unless you choose to make your own interpretations

>>17947341
YES!
Everyone can

Not everyone wants to because that means that they ahve to admit that God was right and they are wrong

>>17947325
Not that anon, but for me it's not about a supreme judge existing or not. I would just like said supreme judge to make his presence, his expectations, the consequences, and the reasons for our existence much more clear.
>But it's in the bible
The bible is sometimes self-contradictory and has been interpreted in hundreds of different ways by human institutions. Something as simple as whether or not hell is really eternal conscious torment is up for debate. That, and there are other religions with different laws for living a good life, and perfectly reasonable materialistic explanations for the universe and human existence that rely on secular laws, the golden rule, and social mores to explain how to live a good life. Is some clarity and clarification really too much to ask for from an omnipotent judge of the universe?

>>17947385
Jesus

>>17947231 (OP)
>forgive those who repent in Hell
The church already rejected this possibility
The church can't be wrong in dogmatic issues
Therefore, you are wrong.

>>17947266
>No repentance without acknowledging that you are wrong
This.
I know people who want forgiveness, but its clear that they have not repented.

>>17947333
I prefer to not feel the consequences of not living in sin, yes.

>>17947719
I would rather be dead than not have my coom.

>>17947722
I would rather be tortured for eternity than not have my coom, I'm a maso so it would be fun~

>>17947725
If GOD takes my coom from me I'm going to bite his dick off

>>17947231 (OP)
In the end times it is said that both thw living and the dead will be judged.
I don't know what that's about, but it sounds like it plays into it.

If Hell was as bad as you jewtroons say it is, then every fucking person who ever went there would immediately repent and be saved. So what's even the purpose? Nobody is going to realize hell is real and then just be like "oh, i would actually rather be here because i am so edgy even though God is giving me a free out". No one would do that unless Hell was actually not so punishing.

So it's all a stupid fairytale story with ad hoc justifications as always. You cannot make a coherent philosophy out of literature. Especially not inbred desert faggot literature from olden times. Coherence comes from science, math, and logic. Dumb fucking jew tales are never going to make for air tight belief systems. Talk about history and get this gay /x/ shit out of here

>>17947736
I would never leave hell if God wouldn't give me my coom in heaven.

>>17947325
Why would you think God as a Supreme Judge would operate based on human standards of morality?

>>17947341
oh no, the horrors

*Stabs God in the face*

>>17947762
Made in his image.
If ever, WE are the ones trying to imitate him

>>17948341
Peak human narcissism to assume

>>17948446
More like "Peak Responsibility"
He who was given much, much is expected in return.
To be granted both his image and his blood is an absurd amount of honor and the Lord expects us to at least try and prove ourselves worthy of recieving it (impossible, but try it anyway)

>>17947231 (OP)
Why does he bother with any of it? Not just Hell, but the whole shebang. Existence, sin, repentance, forgiveness, etcetera. Is he just bored or what? Any non-gnostic theologians cover this?

>>17947231 (OP)
Shoot him with my glock.

>>17947231 (OP)
Where does it say that in the Bible? (It doesn’t, you just love lies.)

>>17947736
> I have a 105 IQ
Noted. Must have hurt being fifth in your class in Nowhere, Kansas. I guess that’s why you hate God so much.

>>17947266
>you are wrong
why are you wrong though?/made to be wrong?

why is god in this context seemingly responsible for nothing, while also creating everything, but expecting accountability from others while seemingly not taking it for himself, while dishing out judgement for others, but not being judged it's self, while declaring a law for others, but having tales of his own behavior recorded in a book were he seemingly doesn't actually adhere to his own law?

why is the context by which your created in this system that your default is that you are not good enough/garbage and you are set aside to be burned alive because you are trash, but the thing that has done this and formed this context loves you, so if you comply in some ambiguous way, it might forgive you and not burn you alive, but the standard is one you can't reach and also it won't be clearly defined so there is always plausible deniability for your to be murdered/tortured

and this context is one of love rather than hostility, and the creation of this is holy and divine and not reprehensible, but if you repeat this same type of attitude/behavior against god, you deserve some form of torture/destruction/death

>>17950264
also, in creating this context, he is merciful for this rather than malevolent, even though the context it's self seems rather centered around threat of violence/harm

when you could assume that if one is a ''god'' unlimited in ability and competence and power to execute to perform a function or produce a result, that all this hostile framing is unnecessary and you could just be accepted, free from requirement, blameless and loved, in a world produced by a being of infinite capacity that never ceases to amaze you by how amazing what it creates is and it's imagination and ability just continues to endlessly surpass your expectations creating a life of which you adore and a builder of that life of whom you admire beyond all others??

>According to the Catholic Church, hell is the "state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed"
A quick search on the internet would've prevented the stupid discussion we see in this thread.

>>17950264
>>17950270
First off, You will never understand it for as long as you keep yourself locked under the idea that you are material instead of divine

Materials have no free will. Push it to the left, and it will always go left.
You are a divine being with authority over time. You made the past, you rule the present, and you will affect the future of both you and the ones around you

He gave you that gift so you may rule alongside him in the glory of creation. He wants you to rule alongside him but if you wish to use it against him, all of his kingdom would mourn you for eternity

Secondly, God is eternally
Everything he does is perfectly designed to benefit everyone in the long run.

He gave you logic and reason so you can ask questions and seek the truth
He came in the form of a humble man, so you may hear the truth spoken through his lips.
You know he is right
You know that everything he says produces nothing but good

The question becomes: why would you refuse him

>>17950906
>God is eternally
God is eternally *good

>>17947231 (OP)
That’s why Hell or Sheol only makes sense as a place where your soul is annihilated

>>17947736
The Orthodox believe that it’s physically more painful for people who reject God to be in his presence than to suffer in hell so that’s why evil people can’t just repent and be saved because to do so is literally more agonizing than being burnt to a crisp 24/7

>>17950953
Funny thing is, that is exactly what differentiates a repentant one from a guilty one

The repentant would face his punishments. He may beg for mercy, but he'll acknowledge it if it is denied to him

A guilty one just wanted to be free from consequences

>>17950953
>The Orthodox believe that it’s physically more painful for people who reject God to be in his presence
How could they possibly know that?

>>17951188
>painful for people who reject God to be in his presence
Why don't God just use his superpower to do anything (omnipotence), to make it less painful?

>>17950071
Kek, shut it you fucking jewtale cultist.

*stomps on ur ballz*

No, but seriously, why do God not use his superpower to make it less painful?

>>17947231 (OP)
Look at all the people IRL who’ve done heinous things and gotten away with it. Murderers, rapists, etc. How the heck am I supposed to accept that people like Genghis Khan, Hitler, etc. can be redeemed after what they did? How is that justice? What about all their victims, when will their suffering be compensated for?

>>17951447
I'll help out, since Christians are not answering
It's because God *wants* it to be painful.

>>17947231 (OP)
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

(Hebrews 9:27)

Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection.

(Hebrews 11:35)

Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

(Revelation 20:6)

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

(1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

(Galatians 6:7-8)

>>17951913
Annihilationism + Universalism = reincarnation

Reap what you sow = Karma
Resurrection = reincarnation

Hell is not a bad thing, sometimes even the righteous go there. You are burnt to an ash.

>>17951913
So here's a "in layman's" rundown of those 5 verses put together and then conclusion:

Hebrews 9:27 — “Die once, then judgment.” Taken literally, it looks final. But in a cyclical framework, “once” applies per lifetime, not once ever. Judgment follows each cycle.

Hebrews 11:35 — The hope of “a better resurrection” implies degrees of resurrection, which fits purification/reincarnation cycles more than a single binary outcome.

Revelation 20:6 — The “second death” has no power over those in the first resurrection. That makes sense if the “second death” = total annihilation, i.e., failure to complete the cycle.

1 Corinthians 3:11–15 — This is almost textbook “karmic purification”: fire destroys what is false, but the person is still saved “through the flames.” They are refined by repeated trials until nothing corrupt remains.

Galatians 6:7–8 — “Reap what you sow” really is karma in biblical terms. What you sow in one life you reap in another, until the harvest leads you to eternal life in the Spirit.

>>17951924
Historical christians believed in reincarnation. Eternalist doctrine is a recent phenomenon. Origen and Gnostics didn't believe in eternal torture.

The Lord is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.

(Psalm 145:9)

By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.

(Isaiah 45:23)

This also explains why eternalism makes less logical sense in light of other scriptures: if God is just, and “all things will be reconciled to Him” (Col. 1:20), then eternal torment contradicts His nature — but purification through repeated cycles, with karma as the mechanism, lines up with both justice and mercy.

>>17951929
Surely the day is coming;it will burn like a furnace.All the arrogantand every evildoer will be stubble,and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says theLordAlmighty. “Not a root or a branchwill be left to them.But for you who revere my name,the sun of righteousnesswill rise with healingin its rays. And you will go out and froliclike well-fed calves.Then you will trampleon the wicked; they will be ashesunder the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says theLordAlmighty. (Malachi 4:1-3)

>>17951335
www.enjoyhell.com

>>17947231 (OP)
why would you want mercy

>>17953548
I just don't want to hurt forever

>>17951188
My Lutheran dad taught me a similar concept of hell growing up.

I think it's the logical conclusion of "If hell is bad why doesn't everyone repent?" or "If God is all-loving, why does hell exist?" and basically you have to assume that an all-loving God wouldn't force you into an eternal relation with it. If you believe that the difference between heaven and hell is partaking in the divine nature, then being exposed to a cosmic entity you don't want to partake in is going to be far more uncomfortable then being cut off from Him.

>>17950953
>Don't reject God anon
God rejected us first. Look around you, at all the misery and cruelty in this world. If God loved us he would not have made us suffer so.

>>17953853
>The demiurge creates chocolate
>"The creator's so evil, I'm going to go INSANE!"

>>17953886
> Christians say their Jewish tribal god YHWH gives a little kid brain cancer and kills them
>b-but chocolate tastes good

>>17950953
>>17953777
Just proof that Orthodoxy and Protestantism are meme tier. It literally says that hell is a punishment and that it's rare for someone to even get to heaven

>>17950906
>Materials have no free will. Push it to the left, and it will always go left.
That's actually beek deboonked, first of all "materials" don't even exist and are merely the interactions of forces, second these forces behave probabilistically rather than deteministically.
>You are a divine being with authority over time.
Also deboonked, there are multiple parallel conscious processes happening in the cortex which get summarized into a crappy sketch of the "self" which is just a little made up story; split brain patients still believe they are "one" cohesive being even though they are observably not, because the self isn't a definite thing, it's a narrative process that massively oversimplifies cortical activity that we feel and become accostumed to.
>He gave you logic and reason
Logic and reason do not exist in some kind of free-floating form, they are little games we play with made up rules called axioms.

>>17953777
Abrahamists literally worship an alien eldritch horror.

>>17947345
You can't be saved if you blaspheme the holy spirit and if you are circumcised (matthew 12:31-32; Galatians 5:2)

>>17950377
The bible says is a place with fire though

>>17953905
>It literally says that hell is a punishment
The wages of sin is death. The WAGES. The REWARD of sin is death. Hell isn't a punishment, it's a guarantee by the sin of Adam. You don't get to heaven or hell by being a good person, you go to heaven if you want to pursue a relationship with God rather than remain in your sinful nature. Christianity is not a works-based religion.

>>17953912
I dunno how you can read Lovecraft and not realize he was just writing what he saw in the Old Testament.

>>17954111
martin luther made up Protestantism as a cope for the fact he knew he wasn't going to be good enough

>>17951447
Take a look around, what makes you think that you’re already not in hell for no good reason? Who says that our God isn’t evil.

>>17955262
Don’t send anyone else to hell. Are you planning on having children? I thought you were smarter than that. You do this voluntarily now.

>Slave breeding was the practice in slave states of the United States of slave owners systematically forcing enslaved people to have sexual relations and bear children. It included coerced sexual relations between enslaved men, women, and girls; forced pregnancies of enslaved women and girls; and forced breeding of specific enslaved people in hopes of producing relatively stronger future slaves. The objective was for slave owners to increase the number of people they enslaved without incurring the cost of purchase, to fill labor shortages caused by the abolition of the Atlantic slave trade, and to promote desired physical characteristics.

If hell is a thing then why do you suffer here on Earth so much? Would you call Earth pleasant? Keep in mind that this God could create any type of life for you, yet you spend most of it working for some other rich guy, and he doesn’t even need to whip you anymore because you do it voluntarily for a small fee. For most of your life you work all day to make rich people richer, apparently that’s the purpose God gave you.

>>17955365
no thats the purpose us humans gave ourselves

>>17947231 (OP)
im pretty sure it's not about punishment, it's about leaving god for other things, and if you leave him, he will let you.

Like, no shit, doing drugs and cheating on your wife will make you hate god, you did pleasurable things that had indirect costs. It was the church's job to get 80 IQ malnourished illiterates to not engage in costly short-term behaviour. life also used to be way, way harder back in the day, and the emphasis on the spiritual over the material makes wayyyy more sense in a world before antibiotics, indoor heating and glasses. People just lost sight as they got older back in the day. My life is great, im not wealthy, but im warm, working towards my goals and my health has been restored by modern medicine from a previously unrecoverable excruciating state.

so you need dogma to police behaviour
>>17947552
Brother, the church is made up of people who are faithful but fallible.

>>17953909
You are eating up pop sci there, lad
Don't drink the kool aid

Quantum superposition is not a replacement for the soul
In fact, it is not even a replacement for creation out of nothing

>>17950377
>According to the Satan

>>17955389
Are you sure that working all day is people’s idea of an ideal life or are smarter more powerful rich people convincing you of this? I’m pretty sure that only the rich benefit from the fact that you work all day.
They will set the prices of houses, food, and other things to ensure that you work all day until you retire. Prices of things are artificially inflated to enslave you.

>>17955804
he didn't mention quantum superposition but keep coping and seething

>>17956138
ok rich people are still people so we did it to ourselves god didnt

>>17956449
God makes you horney, that means that he is incentivising you to have more kids, thus creating a new “slave”. I’m afraid that He knows what these children are destined to and He does nothing to fix it.
Me, if I’m going to have sex with a female the first thing that I’m asking her before is if she’s in favour of abortion and only then will I proceed, this guarantees that I don’t make an accident and create a new “slave”.

>>17956468
>asking her before having sex if she’s in favour of abortion
Second best option after a vasectomy.

>>17956468
>asking her before having sex if she’s in favour of abortion
Second best option after a vasectomy. But obviously you should wear a condom.

>>17956468
>asking her before having sex if she’s in favour of abortion
Second best option after a vasectomy. Ideally you should employ both tactics in conjunction. By asking her if she’s willing to abort in case of an accident you just guaranteed yourself a 100% success rate of preventing pregnancy.
But obviously you should wear a condom.

>A vasectomy has a success rate of approximately 99.85% in preventing pregnancy

>>17947341
Not only can they, they -will- attain salvation. Only question is when will they choose to.

The Kangxi Emperor was ultimately right
Christianity is a small and bigoted sect, and contrasting with its facade of rationality is its true superstitious nature. To be Christian is to be superstitious to a fault, devoutly following rites not because you believe they are the moral way but because you believe they’ll prevent you from experiencing bad events. In this there is no difference, in truth, between Christianity and any number of practices designed to ward away bad luck. Christianity is like chucking salt over your shoulder to avoid bad luck, it’s concern isn’t with truth.

>>17954997
no one is good enough

>>17951447
>>17951901
Christians explicitly believe it’s good for the burning and agony to be, that eternal torture is justified. From Aquinas we even have the belief that those in heaven will take supernatural delight in those being tortured. From Calvin we have the belief that God creates many people, all except the few hundred thousand elect, to sin and then suffer and then die and then to be tortured forever, because these vessels by their suffering and evil then torturing shows Gods majesty in his delight over suffering.

For this reason Christianity is wrong.

>>17956385
>behave probabilistically
That's quantum stuff

Notice how no Christian since Aquinas actually tries to prove their religion
They rely purely on fear
Other religions invite people to test out their practices and prove the religions moral worth through that, but Christianity rejecting that as works instead encourages faith on pain of torture

And Aquinas’ arguments only work if you agree with certain philosophical frameworks, and if you don’t look too closely at most of his arguments. His only somewhat good arguments are for an unmoved mover existing, his other arguments such as for a personal god, or for a god that has a will and is a conscious actor, are a lot less impressive.

>>17956864
Hell is a choice