Thread 17948459

His ideas killed millions of people, sure. But was he wrong?

>>17948459 (OP)
He wasn't wrong. His ideas were.

>>17948459 (OP)
I'm not exactly sure his ideas killed anyone, except in a spiritual way... communes are a viable way of life that predate Marx by centuries. And afaik the huge historical dictatorships we all rightfully despise were often only remotely implementing his actual communist ideas, the ones he actually renounced within his lifetime.

>>17948459 (OP)
>men shouldn't work like cattle 16 hours everyday for scraps
>uhh so you want to kill millions of people??

>>17948459 (OP)
Remember, nearly all of the nations that were communist dictatorships were dictatorships or authoritarian monarchies before they became communist. The one exception might be Czechoslovakia, and it was ruled by Nazis and fascists for over a decade.

Not really his ideas, more the quasi-religious packaging he delivered them in. Marx attempted to explain history in purely materialist terms, and then using this "logical" basis he then prognosticates about the "inevitable" development of human society along the materialist terms he outlines in his historical analysis. It's the prophesy of capitalism's downfall, and the rise of socialism, that appeals strongly to people, for much the same reason that revealed religions of the past replaced less mystical faiths. Like Christianity before, it, Marxism appealed to those who had little to lose and everything to gain from its promises being fulfilled. The unfortunate side effect of prophesy is that creates zealots, and zealots commit violence unhesitatingly in the name of their faith.

>>17948459 (OP)
How many died in the name of god, be it Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, Quetzalcoatl, or any other

>>17949271
Ah here is a good looking god

>Lifted most people out of poverty in the fastest way possible with far less brutality than Western industralization. Lowered death rates at the fastest rate in history
>Killed millions
Got to love how lowering death rates don't count, or freak events like famine apparently magically don't occur (or if they do, don't matter) in capitalist developing nations.

>>17948784
Marx wasn't the only one to criticize capitalism. The folly of communism is to think that we can abolish power. It's just an unstable point when treated with game theory, it'll collapse to an oligarchy or autocracy every time.

>>17949286
>with far less brutality than Western industralization
lmao.
Anyways what's more important is that communism collapsed. The only "communist" state left is communist in name only, and is more accurately fascist.

>>17949271
Commie. Many died in name of king, in name of fake justice, name of greater good.
Communism is delusion

>>17948459 (OP)
>Communism was actually angry socialist who want utopian equality.
>His some idea are valid but other straight up lead to dictatorship or worse.
>We should take him with grain of salt

>>17948459 (OP)
He exposed jews and pigskins for what they were, I'll always idolize and be a communist for it

>>17949287
Capitalism itself is a strawman.
>I want to have a free market so I can trade my property with who I choose for a price mutually agreed upon
>Y-you just worship money!
No, I just respect consent and wish others would do the same for me.

>>17949374
>I just respect consent
What do you think about civil rights then?

>>17949381
Having equal rights I have no qualms with (right to freedom of asociation/speech/property for instance) but the whole forcing people to live in close proximity to each other is just simple initiation of force on individuals which I find distasteful.

>>17949406
It's good that you're consistent. Most aren't.

He was wrong in his prediction that capitalism would collapse. It pretty much did the opposite.

>>17948459 (OP)
His ideas hasn't killed anyone. He's no more responsible for the 20th century than Adam Smith.

>>17949420
He wrote about the falling rate of profit which can be measured. He was going to write about automation before he died.

>>17949411
Thanks, anon.

>>17948459 (OP)
Marx, as a philosopher, was wrong. Extremely arrogant there. Marx, as an economist, was correct. His ideas have been absorbed and integrated into our modern economic structures, a so called "pure capitalist" state doesn't not exist, though they didn't take everything from him of course. Marx, as a political scientist, was proven by history an idealistic idiot.

>>17949947
>Marx, as an economist, was correct
No he fucking wasn't lol
>so called "pure capitalist" state doesn't not exist
For completely different reasons than Marx thought.

>>17948775
Not true. Society was never horizontal in structure and there was always hierarchies. That being said society was never individualistic either

>>17949356
Smartest Pakistani

>>17949406
Equal rights to what exactly?