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Thread 17948515

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Anonymous No.17948515 >>17948518 >>17948523 >>17948550 >>17948713 >>17948732 >>17948876 >>17949081 >>17950476 >>17950914
90% of what people perceive as negative aspects of Islam were completely normal parts of society in our ancestors' time. That women should wear veils, distinguishing between men and women, that parents should take part in finding suitable partners for their children, keeping LGBT out of the public sphere, fasting, excluding those who break with the values, that a kingdom should follow religious values instead of trying to separate itself from them, and so on. The biggest actual differences between Western culture and Islamic values in themselves are alcohol, pork, circumcision, inheritance rights between brethren, polygamy, and inbreeding.
Anonymous No.17948518 >>17948527 >>17948876 >>17950376 >>17950476 >>17951119
>>17948515 (OP)
Islam also treats non believers pretty badly, while christians aren't even half as bad.
You can see it today with the arabs and how they treat indian workers.
Anonymous No.17948523 >>17948531
>>17948515 (OP)
>our ancestors' time

that's where islams is still stuck, and it's still violent and discriminatory. get it? people are not disgusted by 8th ct islam, they are disgusted by 21st ct islam
Anonymous No.17948527 >>17948553
>>17948518
Muslims treated Jews and Christians decently because the religions have extremely similar values. They only oppressed child sacrificing widow burning pagans for the most part, just like the Christians did.
Anonymous No.17948531
>>17948523
Our ancestors' time lasted until WW1 when woke really started getting a stranglehold on the West
Anonymous No.17948550 >>17948956
>>17948515 (OP)
The Song of Solomon (approximately 2500 years ago in the Middle East) rhetorically suggests that it is bizarre for a girl without breasts (i.e. prepubescent) to get married, even for nobility.
Also that putting on a veil is something that literal whores do (per Genesis) to hide their identity.
I realize that “fundamentalists” ban women from even going outside. But of course you have to do that when their identity is hidden and the community can’t identify them.
Women being anonymous means they can be whores. If she has her face exposed people might notice and tell on her.
(This is also why city/college bitches are such whores - a sort of anonymity or lack of community accountability)
Anonymous No.17948553 >>17948559
>>17948527
What about the ottomans in the balkans?
Anonymous No.17948559 >>17948568
>>17948553
Winning a war isn't genocide.
Anonymous No.17948568 >>17948601
>>17948559
So jizia tax, court discrimination, banning churches from being built or buying certain materials so they don't look good enough theft of boys, genocides, forced conversions, mass rapes.
That's good and fair treatment?
Anonymous No.17948601 >>17948604
>>17948568
>jiziya tax
Oh no, how dare they force them to pay a small fee in exchange for never having to fight in the army
Anonymous No.17948604
>>17948601
The army also had the right to take your animals without compensation and you were required by law to feed the soldiers and shelter them. They had no right to do this to non muslims.
Anonymous No.17948713
>>17948515 (OP)
jebus cripes where do all these got damn sand monkeys come from spewing their retarded shit at 4chan???
Anonymous No.17948732
>>17948515 (OP)
>90% of what people perceive as negative aspects of Islam were completely normal parts of society in our ancestors' time
incidentally the really disgusting aspects of that religion are scarcely noticed by outsiders and almost never noticed by its participants, who are completely submerged in it like fish in water.
Anonymous No.17948876 >>17950476
>>17948515 (OP)
>inbreeding
It was also common in the West, historically speaking. Both among peasants and very famously among nobility. It's a shame most people don't understand what an exceptional thing in human history was the development and consolidation of Western liberalism.
>>17948518
Muslims were never exceptionally cruel or intolerant. Dhimmis have legal restrictions under Muslim jurisprudence but also enjoy legal protection (it's in the name) and rights.
>b-but the Ottomans had European slaves
Christians had African slaves yet that has little to nothing to say about the Christian faith.
Anonymous No.17948956
>>17948550
You are correct but in all the wrong ways. The Muslim veil when used properly banishes idolatric satanic vice (makeup) out of the public sphere. Shawls are still a thing in many Christian denominations. Where boys and girls are both expected to cover thier head. But sure whores may have covered thier face in the past so as not to be recognized.
Anonymous No.17949081
>>17948515 (OP)
>ancestors
the enlightenment happened over three hundred years ago OP. you should probably just go live in arabia.
Anonymous No.17950376 >>17951102
>>17948518
what happened to the pagans of Europe?
Anonymous No.17950476 >>17950495 >>17950920
>>17948515 (OP)
>completely normal parts of society in our ancestors' time
>keeping LGBT out of the public sphere
This isn't reflected in Muslim history nor in the history of pre-Christian Europe. In actuality, very few people in those times cared much at all about anything LGBT. Hell the notion of LGBT is really a recent thing anyway, and is ahistorical. For Muslims, they weren't always so intolerant of gays, and homoerotic literature used to be somewhat common for Medieval to early Modern Muslims. We have male skeletons with feminine clothes and weaponry in some excavations in Europe. Nobody gave a second thought to pederasty (boy love) in pagan Europe.

>>17948518
>Islam also treats non believers pretty badly, while christians aren't even half as bad.
It's pretty important to separate Muslims from the religion of Islam in general. I notice how you compare Islam (thing) to Christians (people). A lot of what Muslims did weren't exactly because of religious reasons, though religion does limit a person to a degree. I say this because if we can apply this logic to Muslims and Islam then likewise Christianity suffers the same criticism if we look to history.
>>17948876
>Muslims were never exceptionally cruel or intolerant.
Statements like this and the opposite are never true. We have instances of Medieval Muslims forcing Jews to wear arm bands to distinguish them Nazi Germany style. The Jews of Medieval Palestine were ethnically cleansed over time due to Muslim actions. Plus there were times where Muslims denied the concept of dhimmi (Almohads for example).
Medieval Christians were often times just as bad if not worse, though, but also had times where they facilitated and worked with Jews just like some Muslim polities did. Medieval Muslims were more often than not more tolerant of nonbelievers than Medieval Christians on average, likely due to the theology of the dhimmi concept and jizya tax, but we shouldn't pretend that it was a fantasy land of tolerance.
Anonymous No.17950495
>>17950476
Oh no, don't get me wrong. I didn't mean to say Muslims never did bad things. There is plenty of evidence of the contrary. When I say 'exceptionally cruel or intolerant' I mean the same as you do. Muslims, like Christians or pagans or orientals or anyone else, were not uniquely vile. And acts of cruelty more often than not had more to do with secular matters than religious divergences, like how the Albigensian Crusade was in effectively a political dispute between French nobles and how the expulsion of Jews often had more to do with money than their denial of the divinity of Christ.
Anonymous No.17950914
>>17948515 (OP)
>90% of what people perceive as negative aspects of Islam were completely normal parts of society in our ancestors' time.
yes. those are negative aspects of our ancestors' time as well, since they were primitive brutes until christianity broke its own neck.
Anonymous No.17950920
>>17950476
>It's pretty important to separate Muslims from the religion of Islam in general.
nope. islam is what muslims actually do, all else is someone's headcanon only.
Anonymous No.17951102
>>17950376
Forced conversions like any abrahamist religion.
Not as brutal as islamic forced conversions.
Anonymous No.17951119
>>17948518
The way Arabs treat Indian workers is a good thing. Indians are lower IQ even than Arabs and criminal in nature, although generally not violent, they would defraud and scam Arabs if they had the chance, they toss trash and defecate where they please because they have absolutely zero sense of morality or fairness, you can do them a favor but don't expect them to even lift a finger in return. So why would you conduct genocide of your own population and replace them with Indians? That would be insane. Evil even. The construction workers need to be kept far away and only the women or the most servile and meek allowed as waiters or to pack bags, a white man should be able to go to a mall in Dubai and not see his daughter jumped by one of these things.
Anonymous No.17951637 >>17951657 >>17951937
Most people's negative attitude towards Islam is due to the observed violent and dysfunctional behavior of its adherents in their vicinity, which leads people to assume that the precepts of the book they center their lives on can't possibly be much good, so they reflexively write off anything associated with it. The actual details don't matter. Scarcely anyone would give a shit about women being mandated to wear hijabs if Muslims were overwhelmingly productive, trustworthy, and non-violent in their interactions with others. It's only disliked because it's a signifier of already disliked ethnic and religious identities.

Take Amish. They aren't exactly universally loved (for example their reputation for puppy mills earns them bad rep), but because young Amish men don't stab people on the subway at night or blow themselves up in crowded spaces, everyone puts up with them. So their girls can wear their bonnets and they can shun homosexuals between themselves without a problem.
Anonymous No.17951657
>>17951637
The Amish live in isolated communities on countless acres of their own land where they dont bother anybody.
moslems on the other hand move in directly next to you, start harassing or straight up victimizing people through crime, get involved in politics in openly threaten to "replace" you.
For many moslems the Ottoman empire is a role model, they want you broke, humiliated, your children taken from you, brainwashed and raped and they think its funny. Thats why they are hated and the only solution for this plague is a final one.
Anonymous No.17951937 >>17952132
>>17951637
>which leads people to assume that the precepts of the book they center their lives on can't possibly be much good
which is true. the more you read the Sunni hadith corpus and their Sharia manuals, the worse it gets
https://sunnah.com/abudawud:2121
>Aisha: He [Mohammed] had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.
note there's no age limitation for raping your underage wives in Sharia. the only significant rule is that you're not allowed to injure her during penetration, which you can find out through trial and error (try it until it fits). Sunni Muslims are obligated to follow the consensus of scholars ('Ijma') - see pic related from 'The Reliance of the Traveller'.
that's just a tiny look into the depravities of this disgusting cult
Anonymous No.17952132
>>17951937
I think the Qur'an and ahadith were beneficial developments for 7th century Arabia that until that point was mostly a peripheral backwater between the Greco-Roman and Persian civilizations, and that Arabs reorganizing their society around Islam most likely significantly improved their lives compared to what preceded it even without accounting for the massive material benefits (from their perspective) of the Muslim conquests. But that very thing makes it a bad fit for 21st century developed world. Texts like the ones you posted are certainly a part of the reason why.

Even so, Islam probably explains about 30%-40% of their misbehavior, at least from the perspective of a European. Its worst effects are as an organizing principle and source of legitimacy for their violence and animosity, but I don't think Muslims would be much improved in its absence. At least not without a multi-generational turnover. Islam, when expressed through e.g. a Bosnian--even devout ones--is typically a lot less pernicious than when expressed through an Afghan, Pakistani, Somali, or North African. A lot of Islamic ill-behavior is just the product of social alienation caused by their own shortcomings intersecting with standard ethno-racial resentment, with Islam just serving as a convenient post hoc rationalization to make it seem less pathetic than it is.