Thread 17952903

Why do people become Norse / Germanic pagans? The only arguments I can find for it are either political reasons (which is not a valid argument for religious beliefs, but that's a whole other discussion), racial reasons, or aesthetics. I can understand Hellenic or Roman pagans, because there's a wealth of philosophy that justifies its existence, like Platonism for instance. But what do did the Norse peoples have? They didn't have philosophy or any high class, intellectual backing to their beliefs, they had no theology. They have the Sagas, but that's just mythology. What is the actual basis of the spirituality of Norse pagans in the modern day? What do they actually believe in? What intellectual reason do Norse pagans have for being what they are?

Nordicism and hate towards non-Germanic races, that's the real reason.

>>17952903 (OP)
just cringe larpers who want to play dress up
>>17952905
90% atleast of the Norse larpers are libs who would clutch their pearls if you said anything racist.

>>17952905
So, modern Norse paganism is essentially a modernist reinterpretation of ancient practice? I think that's my main issue with it. It feels inauthentic. I, myself, am a Hellenic Platonist, even though I'm not Greek or even Mediterranean. They would've considered me a barbarian and I "should" actually be practicing Germanic paganism, but while I think the whole aesthetic of it is cool and it looks like a fun thing to experience, there's basically no actual philosophy to it. What I'm mostly wondering is if I'm just wrong about that part.
>>17952910
90% of all pagans of any stripe are faggots. Go to r/hellenism and sort by top (or don't, actually). They're all gay and/or children saying "such and such god is queer and you're valid", it's actually kinda disturbing. It's like this with even Kemetism. I don't really understand the phenomenon which makes these kinds of people seek out these alternatives, although it's likely reactionary against Christianity, since these people also tend to be Americans as well. On the other hand, the other percentage are always far right people like Varg. Only a small sliver are actually rational people.

why do we get the same threads about larpagans over and over again

>>17952916
Some people really want the ceremony and traditional practices of Paganism i think. And it was ancestral even for Greeks and Sort of for the Roman's. I have met very few Pagans. But they ranged from pretty cool to a bit of an uneasy feeling if I have to be honest. I have to re emphasize this communal tradition part. I think some people feel the church and it's teachings are alien and want a more communal sort of shared spirituality. Like church but with a different atmosphere. If people are using to involve sex with kids and homo sex that's too bad. But em. That might have sort of been a problem with some old branches of Paganism as well. (Not Norse, to my knowledge). Stuff like that and human sacrifice hold no interest to me.
Being Pagan and just wanting to live around people that look like you seems like the unholiest thing you could say in some country's right now.

>>17952927
We should have more breads about rodnovers

because you dont become a germanic pagan, you are a germanic pagan and just accept this when you adopt worship of the Gods. the main stock of genetics in america is anglo-saxon and german, we dont really have any reason to practice hellenic or roman paganism, because its alien to us
>they didnt have philosophy or high class
says you. what have you actually read regarding norse paganism? a wiki article? im tired of pseuds speaking on things theyve never actually studied

>>17952937
>because its alien to us
The Greeks and Romans were descendants of Indo-Europeans, if you want to purity spiral. They are from the same stock as the Germanics, just differentiated after several thousand years. The Ancient Greeks and Romans were white. The philosophy and legalism of the Greeks and Romans have also been the backbone of western civilization for thousands of years, and even serving as the backbone of Christianity. Finally, to consider Platonism, revering The One and its emanations, the Gods, is incapable of being alien because they are universally true, just wearing different faces. I only worship the Greek gods because all the philosophy I've adopted is Greek. It only makes sense. The Greeks and Romans themselves took part in interpretations of others' deities accordingly.
>im tired of pseuds speaking on things theyve never actually studied
The entire point of the post was asking what the Norse peoples had that is comparable to the philosophy of the Greeks and Romans. You seem to know what you're talking about, so could you provide information? The only thing I know of are the Sagas. It would certainly be interesting to read Nordic philosophy.

>>17952937
If you know much European history you know how much Rome and Greece shaped it. It is unfortunate most Pagans like the ones talked about in this thread don't know or don't care about that. But it's understandable.

>>17952949
>The entire point of the post was asking what the Norse peoples had that is comparable to the philosophy of the Greeks and Romans
It's uniquely their own and their folk traditions. It's not about rationality and philosophy. I don't think you understand paganism.

>>17952949
The thread of continuity has been severed. I think people who have other shit to do care not for you lofty ideals. And probably resent some of the establishment that knows that stuff.

>>17952954
yes rome and greece shaped european history. so did the germanic tribes. it seems youre the one who doesnt know much about european history
>>17952949
so why not larp as hindus if its all just indo-aryan? they still had different values, different ways and different customs. homosexuality was accepted or even deified in greco-roman tradition while it was disdained and punishable by death in the germanic tradition. marriage was saved for later in youth (late teens, early 20s) by the germanic tribes while the latins tended to marry much earlier. just because they descended from the same stock does not mean they are the same people. adopting roman customs and roman gods and roman values while we are largely germanic or celtic peoples is a clownish larp. our values, our language, our very days of the week comes from the germanic peoples and their Gods.

>>17952966
Our language, architecture, legal system, science, philosophy, and even Christian religious ethics are all much more Greco-Roman than Germanic.
>why not larp as hindus if its all just indo-aryan?
Advaita Vedanta was one of the things I was interested in when I first began studying religion. I ultimately decided against Hinduism or Buddhism because it is uniquely Asiatic. Ultimately, I don't really care what my "ancestors" or my "people" believed, because I believe that what I have found is more valid than anything they believed. I also have countless more ancestors who are Christian, so it's a moot point. I would even go so far as to say the Greeks and Romans are superior to my own people and rightfully called those people barbarians.
You still haven't provided any information on "Nordic philosophy" of any kind.

>>17952961
Not him, there are over a thousand years of English and German post Christian pseudo pagan references to Greek and Roman mythological history. So much so that you literally can't escape it. It was influential in higher learning and education and literally built western technology and influenced any philosophy that wasn't christian.
Does that mean anything to you?

>>17952973
>Christian religious ethics
pederasty is not a christian religious ethic. you sound brown

>>17952973
>I ultimately decided against Hinduism or Buddhism because it is uniquely Asiatic.
NTA but this isn't true, Advaita in particularly is extremely similar to the Platonism which you state you profess. As for Buddhism, it is closer to a methodology than a metaphysical system and is always valid to take up.
Furthermore, from a Platonic point of view there is little reason to prefer Greek over Germanic gods besides convenience. I agree with you however that Greek paganism is just way more practical - there's actual theology and ritual that has survived to this day. If we ever get a serious pagan revival, it would used Greek sources as a basis and at best reskin them to suit local cultures.
I am not aware of any other valuable pagan sources besides the Greco-Roman ones. There's plenty of modernist slop but little actual surviving evidence. Even the Greek sources we have just about constitute an essential minimum.

>>17952995
Greek Creation myth also lines up with physics remarkably well. Better thany any other religion in fact. Doubt I'm the first to notice that.

>>17952995
>Advaita in particularly is extremely similar to the Platonism
I do agree. If I wasn't Platonist, I would probably be Hindu and subscribe to Advaita. What I learned from learning about Advaita Vedanta when I was younger helped me a lot in life and is probably why I became so fond of Platonism. I guess I say it feels too "Asiatic" purely because of the aesthetics. If we're talking about things being "alien", things like Hinduism, Shinto, and Buddhism feel pretty alien to me. Really, discussing this makes me wanna learn more about it. I think it could be fun and enlightening.
>Furthermore, from a Platonic point of view there is little reason to prefer Greek over Germanic gods besides convenience
That is precisely why I do it. It feels much more natural to read Greek philosophy, which uses Greek words, to undertake Greek rituals, and sing Greek hymns to Greek gods (in Ancient Greek, one day, hopefully). It would feel dissonant and, potentially, disrespectful to worship, say, Odin, within a Platonic framework. I even wondered to myself if it were better for me, personally, to use their Latin names rather than their Greek ones, because I'm more familiar with Latin, but I decided against it for consistency sake. I'm very anal about these kinds of discrepancies.
>I am not aware of any other valuable pagan sources besides the Greco-Roman ones
Since this thread has been pretty useless for discussion (go figure), I decided to do a bit of searching on my own and I found that the Eddas and Sagas espouse lots of philosophy, just not in as scholastic a form as Greco-Roman philosophy. However, a lot of the ideals are quite similar to things like Platonism and Stoicism. Reading excerpts also made me realize how similar the writing and subject matter are to Burzum songs. Neato.

>>17953001
If you are too interested in myths and parallels with soience you are probably doing Greek paganism wrong t b h. If you are interested in material genesis then you should probably stick with material science, if in literature, then with literature. The major gains to be made by making the jump to paganism are in theology, metaphysics and spiritual methods.

>>17953012
I agree with the second half of what you said. But a creation myth made so long ago that seems to be the most sophisticated leads me to believe they may have been a bit closer in the non-rational sense as well. Norse and Greek both interest me. I sort of get many don't share the interest.

>>17953010
>I guess I say it feels too "Asiatic" purely because of the aesthetics. If we're talking about things being "alien", things like Hinduism, Shinto, and Buddhism feel pretty alien to me.
I suppose I can relate, but only a little bit. Although it wouldn't stop me if I felt like taking the plunge. It's just not really practical for me, and it feels like I would be dishonouring my European roots if I go and seek out something elsewhere that can also be found at home.
>It would feel dissonant and, potentially, disrespectful to worship, say, Odin, within a Platonic framework.
I don't feel the same. I think it would be fine. It would just require more effort in thinking through the correspondences and preparing suitable resources for yourself. It would be fine to do this if there was some huge Odinist church that needs more theology, but there is little demand for this on the mass level, and it's kind of unnecessary on the private level.
Another slight problem is that if we wanted to create a strictly Platonic form of worship, it would probably be much easier to sell it to unitarian Christians than to the average "polytheist" pagan.
>I even wondered to myself if it were better for me, personally, to use their Latin names rather than their Greek ones, because I'm more familiar with Latin, but I decided against it for consistency sake.
You are well in your right to do as you please, but personally I advise you not to worry so much. If a respectful attitude is present, respect is also present. Words are just words. I pray mostly in English with some Latin sprinkled in (I know precious little of it). Even this I only do to mark the words out as special to me, it's a sign I am trying harder. But in the end of the day it's just words.

>>17953010
>>17953033
>I decided to do a bit of searching on my own and I found that the Eddas and Sagas espouse lots of philosophy
Yes, they are great sources, definitely recommend them for anyone interested in Germanic stuff. If you don't mind chuddy people, Survive the Jive may be useful in discovering more possible sources. I know he somehow put together a Nordic sorcery course as well. Although I can't imagine anything you get from that would be better than what you'd get from the PGM, Hermetica, Agrippa, the Neoplatonists etc. But it can offer an aesthetic to coat your Greco-Roman approach, if you wish.

>>17952973
>I would even go so far as to say the Greeks and Romans are superior to my own people and rightfully called those people barbarians.
>You still haven't provided any information on "Nordic philosophy" of any kind.
the greeks and romans you admire so much claim that the druids and barbarians invented philosophy. even one of their most esteemed philosophers was a scythian, one of the babarian races you disdain so much.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacharsis
the philosophies of the barbarians were not as well preserved as the greco-romans as in taking the form of the scrolls produced by aurelius and such, but they did preserved their philosophy within the eddaic poems such as the havamal. its clear they followed something close to stoicism when you compare the meditations of aurelius to the havamal (sayings of the High One, aka Odin) or to the dhammapada of india

>>17953043
How old is the oldest record of Norse or German Paganism, do you know?

>>17952995
Finnic and wider Finno-Ugric paganism is surprisingly well documented.
It doesn't have singular mythology and it is very hard to get into.
Last continuously practicing pagans are syncretistic Mari people.
I doubt it would get popular outside Finno-Ugric influence sphere.
Maybe some russians, baltics and scandinavians could be interested.

>>17953050
depends whether you are talking archeology or historical record

>>17952903 (OP)
It beats worshiping a foreign brown rabbi.

>>17953130
Both. The oldest record or evidence of a pantheistic god.

>if I insult your beliefs you'll believe in jews :)
No :D
>Muh Odin drank semen
No, I'm not norse
No, I'm not sharing my family tradition you cannot participate on because:
a) You're not one of us
b) Lmao nigger, like how in hell you think you can convert into any religion at all, like seriously nigra, they're all children of the God in question and you're some freeloader, just hue

>>17952903 (OP)
They are spiritually orphaned due to this materialistic society. And since the true faith is maligned non stop, they grasp at other 'spiritualities', just like the ones that turn to oriental faiths, like spiritual refugees as Carl Jung said.