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Thread 17955373

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Anonymous No.17955373 >>17955386 >>17955469 >>17955593 >>17955714 >>17955751 >>17955776 >>17955784 >>17956036 >>17956058 >>17957097
Does the Russosphere qualify as a distinct civilization?
Anonymous No.17955375 >>17955383 >>17955487 >>17955717 >>17956386
How are Latvia and Lithuania part of the Russosphere when they aren't even Slavic
Anonymous No.17955383 >>17955890
>>17955375
Also why is there no Estonia lol. What's up with that
Anonymous No.17955386
>>17955373 (OP)
Not yet. According to Spengler weโ€™re in the early Eurasian spring. Their true unique cultural forms (without any Western or Byzantine influence, and yes, socialism was a Western invented system on them) are in the midst of developing.
Anonymous No.17955469
>>17955373 (OP)
The soviets TRIED to create their own civilizational sphere but now that they collapsed eastern Europe rejoins the rest of Europe
Anonymous No.17955479 >>17955610
Pan-Slavism is a waste of time just like Pan-Germanism was. Ethnonationalism is too imprecise and nuanced, only Civic-Nationalism is objective.
Anonymous No.17955487
>>17955375
Civilization crosses ethnic boundaries. The Sumerians and Akkadians were of different ethnicity but due to their deep mutual connection trying to insist their civilizations were separate would be silly.

As for the topic I believe it's part of eastern european civilization. Aside from Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia this eastern europe includes Romania and Hungary as well as the baltics while the southern slavs aren't a part of it so calling it slavic would be too much of a stretch, but that's roughly what it is.
Anonymous No.17955593
>>17955373 (OP)
Yes, it does.
The system adopted in the western Europe was in short
>the more you contributed to the Vatican, the more you are Roman, thus, a more legitimate monarch.
Russia and its surrounding orthodox countries never followed this protocol of civilization, because they aimed to be recognized by Constantinople.
Anonymous No.17955610
>>17955479
>civic nationalism
Anonymous No.17955714 >>17955746
>>17955373 (OP)
why is poland in this supposed russosphere when we've got nothing in common with russoids?
Anonymous No.17955717
>>17955375
neither are russians
Anonymous No.17955746 >>17955757
>>17955714
Maybe in your dreams you aren't
Anonymous No.17955751
>>17955373 (OP)
Nope. They are mostly just Europeans in denial, and good half of them don't want anything to do with Russia proper. If anything it's disbanding quickly even as a language zone. You should have added Kazakstan and some other formely Russian speaking countries btw, just to underline how quick the collapse of Russian Mir is.
Anonymous No.17955757 >>17955772
>>17955746
we're a different race, we've got a different culture and are a part of a different civilisation
Anonymous No.17955772 >>17955778 >>17955815
>>17955757
At no point in the last 1000 years of history did anybody consider poles closer to germans, frenchmen, spaniards, italian... than russians
Anonymous No.17955776 >>17955811
>>17955373 (OP)
No, because Rus, Novgorad and Kiev etc. were built Germanics, the civilization was built by Germanics, Slavs just migrated in later.
Anonymous No.17955778 >>17956460 >>17956642
>>17955772
Poles literally are considered a Western nation part of Catholic civilization.

At no point in history was this not true.
Anonymous No.17955784
>>17955373 (OP)
This whole sphere is just some states the Russian empire conquered at the height of its power.

The Russian Empire literally did not exist before Peter went on his great Western tour learning everything he could from the Dutch, English, French, Germans and Spanish about shipbuilding, Western insitutions like Science Academies, universities, carthography and exploratioj guilds etc. etc.

Then he brought all of that back East and created the Russian empire. So no, never been its own sphere. If Peter wasn't Christian and learned in Western ways the empire would never have existed.
Anonymous No.17955811 >>17955832
>>17955776
Nonsense
Anonymous No.17955815
>>17955772
>At no point in the last 1000 years of history did anybody consider poles closer to germans, frenchmen, spaniards, italian... than russians
Why are you lying?
Anonymous No.17955832 >>17955844 >>17955852
>>17955811
Reciepts:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people

The Rus',[a] also known as Russes,[2][3] were a people in early medieval Eastern Europe. The scholarly consensus holds that they were originally Norsemen, mainly originating from present-day Sweden, who settled and ruled along the river-routes between the Baltic and the Black Seas from around the 8th to 11th centuries AD.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veliky_Novgorod
In 882, Rurik's successor, Oleg of Novgorod, conquered Kiev and founded the state of Kievan Rus'.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27
>There was once controversy over whether the Rus' were Varangians or Slavs (see anti-Normanism), however, more recently scholarly attention has focused more on debating how quickly an ancestrally Norse people assimilated into Slavic culture.[e]


Slavs of course existed, but as a tribal stage people. The _civilization_ was built by Germanics. Not even Russian historians dispure this anymore.
Anonymous No.17955844 >>17955852 >>17955875
>>17955832
According to Norse chronicles, when Rus arrived there, there were cities already there, far richer than anything in the shithole of Sweden at that time. Talking to you is literally fucking pointless.

You're just another LARPing subhuman, there were plenty of those back in the 2021.
Anonymous No.17955852 >>17955877
>>17955832
>>17955844
this had nothing to do with russia or poland or baltic states
Anonymous No.17955875
>>17955844
I'm not going to bother asking for sources you can't provide, the fact that your source for your claims is literally the Norse chronicles themselves is in itself proof that there was no civilization there before.
>You're just another LARPing subhuman, there were plenty of those back in the 2021.
Is this some kind of seethe because you losers can't even take Kiev?

Sucks when your delusions clash with objective reality doesn't it?

The funniest part about dronefodder delusions is that all their claims to fame are things given to by Westerners: American lend leash, nukes, rockets.

The only "Russians" that ever accomplished anything were those that were still speaking Swedish a thousand years ago in Kievan Rus.
Anonymous No.17955877 >>17955916
>>17955852
>The Rus have nothing to do with Russia

Except for founding it?
Anonymous No.17955890
>>17955383
Russian called chuds/chads
Anonymous No.17955916 >>17955937
>>17955877
muscovite khan created russia after he murdered off novogrodians and stole their identity
mongols created muscovy as a state and a race
Anonymous No.17955937 >>17955959
>>17955916
Mongols aren't relevant to anything. Russians don't speak throat singing or write in whatever script Mongols used to use. Russian people are genetically European excepts (except for mongoloid and turkic slaves). All Russian culture, language and writing is European with many continuities to Greco-Roman antiquity.

Russians conquered Mongols and made them write in cyrillic aphabet. Haha!
Anonymous No.17955959 >>17955981
>>17955937
mongols are the ones who crossbred finns and khazars native to volga basin which resulted in creation of the muscovite race
russian culture is definitely not european: kremls instead of castles, lack of any democratic process for 700 out of 800 years of their history, list goes on
language while part of slavic group is full of turkic words and besides by the same virtue you could argue the senegalese are also european because they're francophones
Anonymous No.17955981 >>17956012
>>17955959
>mongols are the ones who crossbred finns and khazars native to volga basin which resulted in creation of the muscovite race
Getting raped by foreigners is not that relevant. Romans were raped by Gauls in the early republican era, but their civ didn't change much they kept speaking Latin and doing other Roman things.
>russian culture is definitely not european: kremls instead of castles, lack of any democratic process for 700 out of 800 years of their history, list goes on
Democracy is not the only form of government. Peter's structures for the Russian Empire are deeply Western, based on Greco-Germano-Latin law and government structures. Democracy is actually very rare in the historical West, usually only found in city states.
>language while part of slavic group is full of turkic words and besides
But it IS a slavic language.
> by the same virtue you could argue the senegalese are also european because they're francophones
Senegal is absolutely a part of Western civilization as are all modern states. If you have a nation you are living in a Westernized state. Even the idea of nationalism, anti-Imperialism, China's tie wearing communism etc. are all deeply Western. Even anti-Westernism is a Western concept.
Anonymous No.17956012
>>17955981
democracy is the european mode of governance - stems from all sorts of tribal moots and other forms of meritocracy-based decision-making inherent to european people
to contrast asiatic mode of ordinance for example uses mandate as bugmen are ready to accept anything as long as it comes from position of power
Anonymous No.17956036 >>17956058
>>17955373 (OP)
>Russosphere
>Poland is in it.
A rage bait thread.
Anonymous No.17956058 >>17956433 >>17956632
>>17955373 (OP)
>>17956036
Bait thread but it kind of, sort of almost was a thing
Anonymous No.17956386
>>17955375
this+Moldova
Anonymous No.17956433 >>17956711
>>17956058
Poles-Lithuanian can pick Swedes union or Rus union?
Anonymous No.17956460 >>17956513
>>17955778
I'm polish and just laughed when I read this.

Why do you think they call the Great Northern War the Great Northern War? Didn't it involve supposedly western Poland? Shouldn't it be the great northwestern vs. north eastern war?

In the understanding of the early modern era Poland was always "the North". Earlier the pattern of Christianisation matches that of Scandinavia or Russia(Christianisation through ruler's initiative rather than conquest as in Germany or absorption as in post-Roman Germanic world). We can go on and on on it, Poland may have been thought of as separate from Russia but it was already an exotic eastern/northern land on its own.
Anonymous No.17956513 >>17956530
>>17956460
The term "Western" is, first of all, an American concept. So keep in mind it's not often used in non-English language and it was mostly used to shill a particular American narrative that's no longer relevant to anyone, but the term stuck.

The term that medieval Europeans used to refer to themselves was simply "Christendom". Less commonly scholars refered to our civilization as the Occident (Latin for "West"). This latter term does not refer to "Western parts of Europe", it refers connected Christian states resulting from the Western schism of the Church. The East therefore refered to Orthodox and former ERE, not Eastern Europe (which was mostly still pagan back then). The idea was that post schism the Byzantine scholars drastically decreased their communication with us (except when begging crusaders for help etc.). Meanwhile the Western part of Christendom continued to heavily correspond, share technology, ideas etc. So in short everyone that was in contact with the Roman Pope during medieval times was part of "Western civilization". Obviously that includes Poland.

The second part of this equation as that during the extremely rapid advancements of the Enlightenment the primary scholarship was again between more or less the same states that used to he connected by the clergy. This is of course because universities were still mostly focussed on theology and philosophy at that point. Western civilization was then taking on the meaning of these nations who were advancing far more rapidly than the rest of the planet, but at this same time ideas, cultures and technology started being shared to Orthodox Christians, especially after the fall of Byzantine. Peter the Great was a part of this network and took many ideas, therefore English speakers also refer to the Russian Empire he created as part of Western civilization and they started doing Western things like exploration, science academies, intensive scholarly correspondence with the rest of Europe etc.
Anonymous No.17956530
>>17956513
Cont.

So yes, I think it's more than sccurate to say "Poles literally are considered a Western nation and part of Catholic civilization. At no point in history was this not true.".

Poles are hardly the only "unique" country in Europe, I was say that easily Hungary, Finland and Iceland are bigger snowflakes.

But again this is all from the perspective of English language speakers and our view of the world. I do respect the fact that that isn't necessarily how other European people view our civilization.
Anonymous No.17956632
>>17956058
Anyone can make themselves a fancy fantasy map.
Anonymous No.17956642 >>17956717
>>17955778
Also Poles: we wuz Sarmatians n shiet
Anonymous No.17956711
>>17956433
boyars offered king vasa muscovite crown but the king never even bothered to go to moscow to claim it because he only cared for sweden
Anonymous No.17956717 >>17956778
>>17956642
>>17956717
These days they go the dugintard way: we wuzz asiatic mongloidmutta and shit
>>17955373 (OP)
Yes
>Nikolai Trubetzkoy considered the predecessor of the Russian state to be the Mongol Empire founded by Genghis Khan, and not the principalities of Kievan Rus'. Genghis Khan was the first to unite the entire Eurasian continent, and as Trubetzkoy put it, "by its very nature, Eurasia is historically predestined to comprise a single state entity." In his speech in November 2023, Vladimir Putin claimed that the Mongol-Tatar yoke resulting from the Mongol invasion of Kievan Rus' was better for the Russian people than Western domination, saying: โ€œAlexander Nevsky received a jarlyk [permission] from the khans of the Golden Horde to rule as a prince, primarily so that he could effectively resist the invasion of the West." According to Putin, the decision to submit to the Tatar khans preserved "the Russian people - and later all the peoples living on the territory of our country.