Thread 17970959

Jesus affirms that the Talmud is correct. In Matt 23:2-3 he says "They occupy Moses' seat, so do as they say." Furthermore, in Matt 5:18 Jesus states that the law will stay as long as Heaven and Earth do, meaning that the Rabbis to this day hold the authority to correctly interpret theology.

For Matthew, the interpretation of the Law resided with Saint Peter and, one assumes, with those Peter trusted.

>>17971009
Where does he say the Moses' seat passed to Peter? Matt 16:18 does not grant Peter theological authority over the rabbis.

>>17970959 (OP)
>they sit in Moses’ seat, so do what they say
Every commentary I’ve read explains that this only has to do with what’s in the written text of the Torah of Moses, not the later “fence around the Torah” and interpretations that are found in the Mishnah and later Talmud
> For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! (Matt 5:18)
> when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, He said, “It has been accomplished.” And having bowed the head, gave up the spirit. (John 19:30)
The externalities of the law do not remain as binding on the people of God, but rather the inner core (Love God, Love your Neighbor).

>>17971628
>only has to do with what’s in the written text of the Torah of Moses
The Pharisees taught the oral and written law, and the later texts are the preserved form of their teachings.
>The externalities of the law do not remain as binding on the people of God
Jesus did not says this, he tells you to follow EVERYTHING

>>17971637
>literally no one alive today is following the Mosaic Law
>the heavens and earth still haven't passed away
this right here is literal proof that, if you believe that Jesus was indeed who he claimed and was resurrected etc, that you can't possibly believe he meant this literally here about the Mosaic law
as a Christian, if you really believe that the Mosaic law was supposed to still be followed, how do you even make sense of the fact that literally no human alive has been following it for hundreds of years and clearly nothing happened
you know even 'orthodox' 'traditional' jews living in modern Israel aren't even following the actual Mosaic law, right? otherwise they'd be stoning people to death on a daily basis and not doing all the loophole bullshit like making fishing lines around cities and having special elevators and such things, or clearly wearing mixed fabrics

>>17970959 (OP)
There was no Talmud in Jesus's time, the earliest version of it was from the 6th century.

>>17972055
Right, the Talmud had not been written down, but the Pharisees taught the oral Talmud aka Mishnah. You see Jesus follow it for example in Matt 26:26-27.
>>17972035
It very much is possible to live in contradiction with one's prescribed values.

>>17971628
Oh, so Heaven and Earth have passed away? Meds. Now.

>>17971628
>Every commentary I’ve read explains that this only has to do with what’s in the written text of the Torah of Moses, not the later “fence around the Torah”
That's probably the Chirstian interpretation. But secular scholars would probably say that Mathew was a Jewish gospel, and the author probably intended for readers to follow a roughly Pharisee approved interpretation of the law while also accepting Jesus as the savior.

>>17972035
>as a Christian, if you really believe that the Mosaic law was supposed to still be followed, how do you even make sense of the fact that literally no human alive has been following it for hundreds of years and clearly nothing happened
I am not Christian but that's precisely why Jesus was sent according to the bible. "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" He was bringing them back to the law. Also that's false since the bible says this about Zechariah and Elizabeth.
>you know even 'orthodox' 'traditional' jews living in modern Israel aren't even following the actual Mosaic law, right? otherwise they'd be stoning people to death on a daily basis and not doing all the loophole bullshit like making fishing lines around cities and having special elevators and such things, or clearly wearing mixed fabrics
Yes, that is the human traditions that were criticized by Jesus. They have taken their Rabbis as God so they effectively abandoned the literal law of Moses. And you have done the same thing except you justify it in other ways that Jesus didn't approve of.

>>17970959 (OP)
He says that because Jesus recognized that the Phareeses did know the Law even though they didn't practice it correctly (accordimg to him); christians fell for the pauline psyop.

>>17970959 (OP)
Does this mean pic related is correct?

>>17970959 (OP)
Matthew 5:18
>For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.
What is exactily fulfilled?

>>17972838
Shalom, rabbi.

>>17970959 (OP)
Failing to differentiate between old and new covenant is either a tell that you're a jew or that you're retarded. Which is it in your case?

>>17970959 (OP)
He's came to fulfill the law, and bring a new covenant. The law is the sermon on the Mount, the law is seeking Him and the kingdom through such. For most people, in this place, it means throwing out the whole of understanding.

>>17971058
This is backwards. He tells the Jews not to obey most of the Old Testament rules, because they don't have the faith to do it and will all perish in the attempt. Then he tells them to believe in Him, if they want to be saved. They kill him, so everyone else is given the opportunity to be saved. There are no Jews or Gentiles in Christ. You lack basic reading comprehension.

>>17972915
The Second Coming of Jesus if you're a Christian, I suppose. Something yet to happen.
>>17972838
Well yes, it does have the really awkward implication that since according to Christian doctrine Jesus knew what would happen in the future, he affirms all the slights against him in the Talmud as being true. Now, how does one reconcile Christian theology with Jesus affirming that he is in hell, I don't know.
>>17972949
>>17972952
In the Bible, Jesus never abolishes the Old Covenant, in fact he says that it is eternal in Matt 5:18. Therefore, the New Covenant is supposed to be interpreted as an addition to the Old and not a replacement.
>>17973092
>He tells the Jews not to obey most of the Old Testament rules
Where?

>>17973132
>where?
A shepherd will pull a sheep out of a hole on the Sabbath. You can do what you want on the Sabbath, as it is a day of rest. Paul is given instruction that all Gentiles are now in the Covenant of God and therefore kosher laws are obsolete. He even modifies the ten commandments into just two Great Commandments to make them more intuitive and less dogmatic.

>>17970959 (OP)
>Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
That entire chapter is Jesus scolding the Pharisees for being hypocrites and saying that they are going to Hell, so it is nothing like the endorsement, you are making it out to be. Jesus also tells people to pay taxes to Caesar "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's". Does this mean that He also endorses Rome? No, he is just saying follow the ruling structure of the time. Jewish law isn't the ruling structure of any Western country, so there's no reason for any Christian to observe it.

>>17970959 (OP)
>in Matt 5:18 Jesus states that the law will stay as long as Heaven and Earth do
When Heaven and Earth pass away. What makes you think this hasn't already happened? The New Heaven awaits us after death, when we leave this prison. That explains why people go straight to Heaven after death, instead of waiting in Shaol until the resurrection of the dead at Judgement Day.

>>17970959 (OP)
Talmud was written centuries after he died. Try and be less retarded.