Thread 17971169

when did the jesuits turn evil, in the historical record?

>>17971169 (OP)
1500’s arguably

>>17971169 (OP)
In the 1700s, the new Absolutist Monarchs of Europe wanted to centralize power into the state, and away from the church and independent orders

>>17971169 (OP)
The Jesuits were never evil. But what they had built in Paraguay was incompatible with the colonial project in Argentina and Brazil. By converting the native peoples of Paraguay to Christianity, organizing them within their missions, arming them with musket, sword, and spear, training them in horsemanship, marching, and drill they had created a native militia. Beyond this they had at the behest of the Spanish crown established missions in Baja California and were about to go into Alta California. The Spanish crown grew fearful that Alta California could become a new Paraguay. The Jesuits were removed and replaced with Franciscans. Alta California would be colonized, but the crown would also fund the creation of Presidio military districts, both to defend the territory and in an attempt to keep the native Californians from becoming armed. Ultimately of course the christian native Californians were armed at the discretion of the Californios to protect their ranchos from non-christian native Californians.

>>17972233
>But what they had built in Paraguay was incompatible with the colonial project in Argentina and Brazil
wasn't 3/4ths of Paraguayan men genocided by their neighbor countries or something?

>>17972287
That happened about a century later. The Jesuits were suppressed in Portugal in 1759, in France in 1764, in Spain in 1767, before they were dissolved by papal order in 1773. Paraguay was laid waste by Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay in the War of the Triple Alliance from 1864 to 1870.

>>17971169 (OP)
I understand the reason they became sus was because court order became very strict and very public, but any random ass Jesuit working as a confessor could dodge all the public rituals and hierarchies and directly access the person of the king.

Nobody else in power liked that.

When they got into politics, and when Pius VII, being the cocksucker that he was, restored the order.

>>17972233
The other important thing in generial isnt just guns, but more importantly systems. Even Africans had guns, but without systems and institutions to keep the lead flowing, flowing in a certain direction, and not collapsing, institutions were the thing more pivotal then guns.

>>17972287
No, the Guarani border war was something else. Spain was anti-slavery in the colonies at this time and Portugal was pro-slavery so Portugal bought the land from Spain so they could enslave the natives from the Jesuit missions. This is all portrayed in the Jeremy Irons movie the Mission of you’ve ever seen it.

I suppose another aspect of the Society of Jesus is that they were very worldly. In the New World there were a number of cases where plantation owners donated whole estates, slaves and all, to the Jesuits. In some cases they disposed of properties by sales, but in others they continued to run the estates and did not free the slaves. These things all came to an abrupt end in most locations with the suppression of the order and the confiscation of all their estates.

>>17973522
>I suppose another aspect of the Society of Jesus is that they were very worldly.
They also effectively brought indulgence back into practice - you know, the thing that blew up the Christian world.

>>17971169 (OP)
>Loyola was a pure Aryan.

that is the most retarded thing I've read today. He was a pure Basque, and the Basques were originally primitive farmers from the Levant who went very far north-west and supplanted the hunter-gatherers living there.