Thread 17974094

A miracle is an astronomically unlikely occurrence that makes it safe for us to assume that it will never happen, for we only perceive reality through induction, as proven by Hume.
Life exists on a tiny planet in a seemingly endless universe which is “safe to assume” is entirely barren of life. Therefore life on planet Earth is a miracle which defies all inductive reasoning.
A miracle on this massive scale has already happened.
Therefore, we can never be sure that magic, angels, ghosts and talking snakes don’t exist, simply because they seem to our inductive rationality to be extremely unlikely. The only alternative is being open to the possible reality of such phenomena.
Ergo, atheism is a faulty statement on the nature of reality, since we can never be sure of anything. While theism replaces this false confidence to a cognitive openness to possibilities.

>>17974094 (OP)
>Ergo, atheism is a faulty statement on the nature of reality, since we can never be sure of anything. While theism replaces this false confidence to a cognitive openness to possibilities.
Your conflating theism with agnosticism, theism is a belief in the affirmative (with no proof), atheism is a lack of belief (with no proof). Furthermore there's no good reason why one confirmed but extremely unlikely statistical event (with theories explaining this event in a way that's consistent with how we understand this world to work) means you should suddenly start believing in completely retarded shit, that also completely defies how we understand the world to work.

>A miracle is an astronomically unlikely occurrence that makes it safe for us to assume that it will never happen, for we only perceive reality through induction, as proven by Hume.
Wrong. Stopped reading.

>>17974236
>with theories explaining this event in a way that's consistent with how we understand this world to work.

The only atheistic theory that attempts to explain fine tuning is the multiverse theory which is really not in concord with our previous understanding of the world.
The designer theory is a much better argument, it’s still inductive though, that’s why my meaning by theism is faith-based one, a kind of openness rather than confirmed belief.

>>17974266
Explain how we can make any deductions about the outside world.

>>17974272
>The only atheistic theory that attempts to explain fine tuning is the multiverse theory which is really not in concord with our previous understanding of the world.
There's a much simpler explanation: unlikely events and outcomes can occur.

>>17974277
That is my reasoning for defending theism. Unlikely phenomena can occur, magic can happen, ghosts can exist etc.
whereas atheism is confident these are extremely unlikely, so they are not real.

>>17974281
So do you do retarded shit like putting a penny on a table then pouring water on in hoping that the atoms will magically rearrange themselves into gold bars 10,000 times the volume of the original mass, because your system of belief forces you to be open to retarded ideas, even if they are completely contrary to your entire lived experience, the lived experience of everyone around you and our understanding of how the laws of the universe works? Do you think my example is at all comparable to "yeah life is very unlikely, the universe is an incomprehensibly large place with an incomprehensible amount of galaxies and an incomprehensible amount of solar systems and in just one of these solar systems there happens to be a planet that's the right distance from the sun, has an atmosphere and houses complex life, which we have some theories how it originated, all which complies with how we understand the universe to work, and there's even been an experiment that confirms that inorganic matter can turn to organic matter given similar circumstances that we think life arose from?" There is a difference between believing in unlikely stuff that has a plausible explanation and believing in pants on head retarded stuff.

>>17974290
The very existence of physical laws, their properties and their fine tuned arrangement in the first place is simple given. We can explain why life exists on Earth, we cannot explain why these physical laws were fine tuned i this way, so that Earth has the possibility of forming life. This fine tuning is so incomprehensibly, so inexplicably arranged to fit us that nothing will be ever able to explain why.
As to the coin, yes I hold it for possible that literally anything can happen. Not that it is likely, since I see no reason for it, but still possible. However I hold God to be likely, since the only sensible explanation to fine tuning is God.

>>17974312
They are the way they are. There is no reason to ascribe purpose or intentionality to it. Calling it "fine tuning" does the heavy lifting, because it implies that there is something that tunes it, as opposed to being the result of randomness.

>>17974275
We can't, and deduction and induction are two extremely different things, so you're off topic.

>the proof without proof
Very Rinzai of you

>>17974346
>they are the way they are
No, everything has a reason. We already try to explain literally everything by why it exists. Why not the arrangements of the laws?

>>17974369
>No, everything has a reason.
That's your opinion
>Why not the arrangements of the laws?
Because unlike many other questions these ones don't seem to be answerable at the moment, so we leave them as they are.

>>17974374
Well for me a creator makes sense so I stick to it.

>>17974405
Ok, now how does that impact your life in any meaningful way?

>>17974346
if everything was random, then everything would be possible
they tried to simulate a single protein fold by chance and that one fold would have taken 200 times the age of the universe for it to occur in nature if it had no constraints
the atheist account of nature is completely false and impossible based on time constraints alone

>>17974433
Great post, thanks poster

>>17974410
It makes me happy and gives me hope.

Listen…

Atheists don’t like to acknowledge that a sufficiently godlike alien being can totally be worshiped as a god or something.

Theists don’t like acknowledging that their god is just a big alien and believing in gods is a variant of believing in aliens.

But it’s all the same shit. It’s just matter, phenomena, being interpreted. Religion is just a way of looking at the world.

How, why, is this so hard to understand?

>>17974405
You can believe in a creator religiously or scientifically, you realize. The idea of some sufficiently advanced(“godlike”) alien creating our existence as a form of art isn’t exactly unfounded. We do it with ants.

>>17974562
>worshiping some xenos as gods

>>17974094 (OP)
>there was some bright lights in the sky in northern Europe
>therefore, a talking snake
No.

Theism disproven: Pray the bullets away.

>>17974433
>if everything was random, then everything would be possible
No, the laws of the universe being completely arbitrary instead of being fine tuned by an intentional creator doesn't mean the laws can be broken.
>they tried to simulate a single protein fold by chance and that one fold would have taken 200 times the age of the universe for it to occur in nature if it had no constraints
If you're talking about how unlikely abiogenesis is then there are multiple hypothesis how the process could've been sped up.
>>17974477
Fair enough, just don't go around forcing weird rules on other people based on your headcanon.

>life is miracle
>therefore Harry Potter and Zeus are real.
Makes total sense bro I agree.

>>17974562
/thread
Atheists and theists are both stuck on their respective sides of the same damn coin; science is definitive while religion is descriptive; faith has never required truth and at best it’s metaphorically compatible

>>17974094 (OP)
>doesn't know what random means
>doesn't know what infinite means
>doesn't know what universe means
>doesn't know what life means
>still rattling off precooked talking points like the pseud retard he is
read another book

>>17974475
>this disingenuous post missing context is great because it confirms my beliefs

>>17974562
It's funny. Even a tree can be worshipped. People don't realize this.