Thread 17976443

>causally terminates the last vestigates of formal Irish Catholic political power
why did they do it?

O’Donnell and O’Neill were brutally defeated at Kinsale and forced into the Treaty of Mellifont during the Nine Years’ War, leading the James I to constantly undermine their authority. There was also the rumored Tyrone Conspiracy, and with all this pressure they fled, hoping to gain French military support. Thus followed the Plantation of Ulster.

>>17977957
>hoping to gain French military support

>>17977985
NTA, but it wasn't just French support they sought; also Spanish (who had indeed landeed troops previously), and France would in the future.

As >>17977957 succintly put it, they had no other option; O'Neills influence in the English court had all but completely diminished after his reputation as an indestructable leader was ruined by Kinsale, and the war hawks were closing in.

Still, one of the most interesting wars in all of Irish history. Probably the closest Ireland ever came to actually fully preventing English colonisation in their land.

QRD?

>>17978641
>1500s
>England slowly conquering Ireland
>extra tension because Protestantism now involved; more and more people see it as an existential threat to Gaelic society and not just some new king
>ulster the last part of ireland to be conquered, mostly due to difficult terrain and very powerful local gaelic lords such as Hugh O'Donnell (Tír Conall/Donegal) and Hugh O'Neill (Tír Eoghian/Tyrone)
>O'Neill kidnapped as a child and raised in the English court to be their man in Ulster, hoping to eventually be a regional ruler of it
>O'Donnell also kidnapped, English agents sow chaos in his homeland
>O'Neill helps O'Donnell escape
>O'Donnell goes home, takes his throne, drives the English out
>O'Neill also goes home but initially fights with the English, still hoping to install himself as ruler
>Eventually comes to realise England do not care about him, and that they'll destroy him and his home
>Joins O'Donnell's rebellion
>O'Neill was a very capable commander, and had been building an army for a long time
>He becomes de-facto leader of an "Irish Alliance"
>Irish Alliance drive England out of much of Ireland, defeating them in several shock victories in pitched battles
>English command in Ireland rapidly collapsing, multiple top office holders killed in battle
>Spain has promised aid and has sent troops
>But most of them didn't make it; small army arrived in the far south
>Ulster lords realise that they must aid them if they hope to win
>England realises if they don't defeat them first, they'll lose
>England besieges the Spanish position
>Ulster armies march all the way south
>Battle
>Irish alliance lose because of a blunder (and some eagle eyed english cavalry)
>Alliance begins to fall apart
>Spain knocked out of the war
>England slowly regains control
>Alliance surrenders
>England continues their colonial policies

>Realising its death regardless, Gaelic nobles head overseas to try build support to head back with armies to save their home

>>17978659
characer limit prevented me from adding this, but while Hugh O'Neill and the others failed to return-their ancestors didn't.

During the Cromwellian invasion the sons or nephews/grandsons of many of the men who left in the Flight of the Earls returned home to fight. Owen Roe O'Neill is the best known; he was an extremely talented soldier (he served in the Spanish netherlands for a long time) and is also the first known instance of someone flying a Green Harp flag for Ireland; it was on the ship he arrived on in Ireland.

>>17978660
>he served in the Spanish netherlands for a long tim
takes a genocider to fight a genocider

>>17976443 (OP)
All they had to do was abandon popery and everyone would have kept their lands

>>17978660
>their ancestors
yet another illiterate who does not know the difference between ancestor and descendant.

>>17978659
>several shock victories in pitched battles
such as?

>>17977985
Is France the most useless ally, historically speaking?

>>17981123
Battle of the Yellow Ford is probably the best one; a larger English Army commanded by Henry Bagenal (Marshal of the Royal Army in Ireland) faced off against Hugh O'Neill's smaller force.

O'Neill and Bagenal were rivals, because O'Neill was fucking his sister and Bagenal wanted to rule Ulster himself for England rather than see O'Neill rule it as an Irish Gael. The two armies met, and O'Neill decimated them; he used roaming bands of guerillas to hassle and exhaust the army as it travelled, then split the English forces in two and hit them hard with musket fire. Bagenal died, most of the English army died or scattered, and O'Neill lost very few soldiers.

Curlew Pass was another one; an English army was attacked as it passed through the Curlew Mountains, and it too was shattered. It's a battle famous for Irish Gallowglass troops charging the English cavalry and coming out victorious.

>>17981126
In fairness their main failure with Ireland was on account of the weather, not anything else.

The 1796 French Expedition saw nearly 20,000 French troops on over 40 ships headed for Ireland-which would have made mincemeat of the clumsily organised British troops remaining in Ireland when paired with the tens of thousands of waiting United Irishmen troops. We know that the tiny amount that DID land under Jean Humbert easily defeated a force nearly 3 times their size at Castlebar; any scenario where those troops land would have been nightmare territory for Britain in Ireland.

The fleet in 1796 evaded the Royal Navy-but was hit by an unexpected storm, which shattered the fleet. Hilariously, this is still recorded as a "British Victory" despite the fact that it was essentially;
>French fleet successfully evades Royal Navy
>Storm destroys Fleet
>Britain picks off survivors

>>17981198
>Hilariously, this is still recorded as a "British Victory" despite the fact that it was essentially;
are you twelve or do you think battles are usually recorded with nature as the victor if it outcome is due the weather?