Thread 17978949

Sure things are changing now but having grown up in the South, even the most historically illiterate White Man used to know enough about the US Civil War to fill a documentary. Battles, generals, events, which regiments his ancestor was in, etc.. Everywhere someone like Jackson or Lee touched is/was a historical shrine treated with massive respect.

Contrast that to the North, nobody even gives a fuck. Even famous locations seem almost totally forgotten in my travels. There's more Southerners going to see these sites than Yankees, all the time. Hell, Grant's Mausoleum for decades was just a graffiti-covered shithole where heroin addicts went to die. Southerners would have never let the graves of one of their generals go out like that, not even someone like Longstreet who was hated by everyone for criticizing Lee by the time he died.

I've met guys in reenacting from the North who are really passionate but they're few and far between in my experience. I mean all the Union Heritage organizations like the GAR have basically been dead for years compared to things like the SCV.

I mean they won the war and arguably created the foundation of the America we have now. Why have they always seemed to just not give a shit about it at all aside from a few decades after the fact?

because they played no part in it, it was mostly midwestern southerner immigrants that signed on to "kill rebels" only to learn their goal was to completely destroy southern society and loot it.

>>17978949 (OP)
People with Star Wars last names from all over the country go on at length at how the Confederates were traitors and etc. Some of them are from the northern states.

Likely it's that the north has always been more progressive and set on improving conditions rather than reflecting on things like what is noble and one specific, painful war. Sad that they're such gay retards now. Liberals used to be violent, capable people when they were still majority white and sensibly ethnocentric. The many lies of pluralism and moral grandiosity has laid the WASP low. At least as low as the southerner, who still has courage. The courage to be racist. The will to deport those with Star Wars names, being necessary the security of a free state, should not be infringed. It is in fact sacred.

Deport Indians in particular. Deport them on sight.

'cos a giant chunk of them are Ellis Islanders whose ancestors weren't there back then

>>17978949 (OP)
Read the filename
>back of Grant's tomb

Hey, have you seen the Alamo? You remember the Alamo dont you?

>>17978949 (OP)
>Grant's Mausoleum for decades was just a graffiti-covered shithole where heroin addicts went to die.
that's a national monument maintained by the national park service, not NYC. The problem is that the federal government is not properly allocating resources to its upkeep.

But it does look nicer now than it did when your pic was taken.

>>17978949 (OP)
The north is much more cosmopolitan than the south, because of that, there's a much higher proportion of northerners who have no connection to early american history.

Half my ancestors were Ellis Islanders the other half were farming in Illinois back then although they didn't serve in the war.

>>17978949 (OP)
As other people have touched on, most of the Northern stock of today are post-1865 immigrants. To address the central point of your thread, the war did not affect the Union's industrial capacity. It only grew. Sure, it sucked seeing young men come home in caskets but it didn't economically and psychologically destroy people like what the South went through. I'm not trying to be soft on the Confederacy, their aristrocratic rulers brought it upon them.

>>17979051
>>17979354
>>17979359
>>17979360
And? Is that a problem, chuds?

>>17979363
I specifically said I didn't intend to sympathize with the Confederacy. Extractive economies aren't built to last. They had a rare form of Dutch disease called "I have too many black people I refuse to use for anything but agriculture" disease.

The people who lose wars tend to fixate on them a lot more than the people who win them. Vietnam has completely moved on from their conflict with the US and wants good relations with us. Here's a pic from 2013 of secretary of state John Kerry meeting with Nguyen Phu Trong, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam. I followed the news of that trip closely and remember being astonished reading interviews and articles from Vietnam about how people didn't really think about the war anymore, and that it was a minor part of their history compared to French Colonialism and the wars with China. Mostly wars they did not win. Every street in downtown Ho Chi Minh City is named for a historical Vietnamese General who fought the Chinese at some point in their history.

>>17978949 (OP)
Because the south is obsessed with the civil war, it is the lost cause and a cultural touch point that united white southerners. The generals have become heroes and saints and the battlefields and statues sacred. To the north, it was a Thursday. Just one in a long list of wars won by the US. Even today many in the north only care because southerners keep bringing it up to insist that the south was morally/legally justified, because admitting great great grandpa fought for a bad cause is just a line they will not cross.

>>17978949 (OP)
Southerners don't care either. I'm talking about boomers and zoomers alike. They've reached the point where it's "autistic history nerd" shit and not their heritage. The flag hardly exists outside of tacky belt buckles and bumper stickers. Probably because all of the men who actually fought that war went extinct and got replaced by hordes of ellis Islanders.

>>17979683
The US government is renaming military bases in honor of Confederates because Southerners on their government subsidized iPhones are yodeling and hollering about it.

>>17979683
The men who fought that war went extinct because it happened over a hundred a fifty years ago. Their descendants are alive but most of them don't give a damn. I know lots of northerners descended from Civil war vets and most of them are not deeply interested in the war.

I’m descended from multiple Confederate veterans and can bore you to death with details of every skirmish they were in but now I live in the Midwest and get really depressed seeing the neglect of monuments to their old opponents, or worse, the vandalism during the recent Summer of Love, like the Hans Heg statue in Wisconsin. I get the reasons for historical amnesia that many anons list but the cultural revolution stuff is a total blackpill.

>>17979690
Thats mostly because libtards have made villains out of them for years. It's a very superficial faux-pas. Most of them didn't give a shit in the decades prior since the 70s at least.
>>17979693
The side that puts down a rebellion hardly ever tries to romanticize the political aspects of the conflict.

Seems to me like the South is filled with a bunch of hillbillies who want to hang on to slavery, and the North has moved on.

>>17979360
The South was just as democratic as the North before substantial numbers of poor whites started getting disenfranchised well after the Civil War

>>17978949 (OP)
because the north won, and the south lost.
for the north, it's just another stepping stone in the path to the us becoming a great power
for the south, it was the end of the world and the destruction of their entire way of life

>>17979389
>The people who lose wars tend to fixate on them a lot more than the people who win them
Not true btw the US War of Independence isn't really a big part of Britain's collective memory especially compared to the Napoleonic Wars, which we won.

>>17980210
>for the south, it was the end of the world and the destruction of their entire way of life
The South largely dominated American politics for the antebellum period, seven of the first 15 presidents were from Southern states, and after the Civil War there was no Southern president again until Jimmy Carter, more than a century later. They became politically irrelevant and were mostly just known for poverty, Jim Crow, and lynchings.

>>17980263
You guys mythologize the fall of singapore, first afghan war, and Isandlwana though.

>>17980270
Wilson was a reverse carpetbagger

>>17980368
Also LBJ, and there's a colorable argument for Truman though I wouldn't make it

>>17980198
Industrial output has nothing to do with democracy

>>17978949 (OP)
they do

PA here
my ancestors fought in the Civil War, I'm told by my grandfather that they got shit on by the rest of the town after the war because they freed the niggers who ruined PA towns and cities.
so it think maybe its shame, at least that's my family's story

>>17982198
history is funny

>>17979690
And that is very cool. I respect them for that even if the justification is half assed shit like “actually we’re renaming it after this dude who had the same name and he died at age 17 after his combat mission and that’s why you never heard of him.” It’s the thought that counts

>>17979034

You're afraid of the police yourself, child.

>>17978949 (OP)
Shelby Foote estimated he'd been in about 50 fist fights in his life, and he remembered the ones he lost a lot more than the ones he won.
What I take from this is Shelby Foote was an extremely violent and likely unstable man.

>>17982634
half the shit he said was completely made up

>>17979389
>Every street in downtown Ho Chi Minh City is named for a historical Vietnamese General who fought the Chinese at some point in their history.
You kinda defeated your point there by acknowledging whilst the streets might be named after Generals who fought the Chinese, the city itself is named after the guy who stood up to France/US

>>17980263
A decent retort, but that's because the 13 colonies simply left the UK. The UK itself wasn't conquered. Meanwhile William the bastard is a famous/infamous figure in English history like 1000 years later.
If your country/state/entity of somekind is actually conquered and brought under the rule of another, you're going to remember it

>>17982645
it was true in his mind whilst he was saying it, which is the truest form of history

>>17978949 (OP)
Because they're Democrats whose beliefs values haven't changed in the slightest. But instead of aristocrat plantation owners they're now smug elitist liberals.

>>17979360
This is pretty much correct. For perspective on how grisly the South's losses were during the war, it's estimated that the Confederate states had a higher casualty rate than any of the participants in WW1. It's quite improbable that Southern culture survived the war and post war years at all. Though oddly I feel that, at least online, it seems like it's mostly Yankees that start seething out of nowhere whereas Southerners seem to have a more hobbyist-like appreciation for the war.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/04/why_the_south_lives_on.html

>>17979034
>star wars last names
The main heroes of the Star Wars trilogy have names with perfectly fine English meanings (Skywalker, Solo)

>>17982669
>Though oddly I feel that, at least online, it seems like it's mostly Yankees that start seething out of nowhere whereas Southerners seem to have a more hobbyist-like appreciation for the war.

>>17982731
I said "oddly" because I agree with the OP's assessment that in real life it seems that Southerners care far more than Northerners do. As in, I find it paradoxical because I would think it'd be Dixoids that act hysterically online because I think they do so in real life. It's a fairly balanced statement if anything, with your reply sort of helping to prove my point.