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Thread 17982205

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Anonymous No.17982205 >>17982218 >>17982237 >>17983110 >>17983600
>Catholic/Orthobro says the Quran was revealed by Satan/a demon to lead people astray
>Quran constantly says the Gospel = Faith + Works
Anonymous No.17982218 >>17982243
>>17982205 (OP)
>>Catholic/Orthobro says the Quran was revealed by Satan/a demon to lead people astray
Neither of us say this. We believe that it was purely the work of human imagination. Much like other alledged corrective scripture revealed by an angel such as the Book of Mormon. It is possible that maybe Satan had something to do with the creation of Mohammedanism, but his imput is not necessary for heresy to emerge, the human mind is perfectly capable of leading people astray on its own. Also, ascribing Mohammedanism to Satan would be giving him too much credit in my opinion.
Anonymous No.17982237 >>17982253
>>17982205 (OP)
ok, what else does the Quran say?
Anonymous No.17982243 >>17982247 >>17982310 >>17982522
>>17982218
>Neither of us say this.
We do. Catholics do, in fact
St. Augustine and St. Francis were among the most vocal in calling it out. St. Francis personally went there, barefoot, and challenged the sultan that he would walk on coals with the Imams to prove that their god is false

The sultan refused the challenge but conceeded defeat by letting him preach around, protected
Anonymous No.17982247
>>17982243
>We do. Catholics do, in fact
I am Catholic, and I don't believe that. Neither is it a requirement for Catholics to believe that.
>St. Augustine and St. Francis were among the most vocal in calling it out.
As speculation, sure, but not certainty.
Anonymous No.17982253
>>17982237
That the sun sets on a muddy spring.
Anonymous No.17982310 >>17982356
>>17982243
This never happened. The trinity is Satan speak btw
Anonymous No.17982356 >>17982397
>>17982310
Trinity of a pedophile, a rock, and a book written 400 years later, I pressure?
Anonymous No.17982397 >>17982402 >>17983344
>>17982356
Muslims don’t worship multiple gods like heathen christcucks that had to genocide the arians for believing it was fake and gay.
Anonymous No.17982402 >>17982411
>>17982397
You are a Muslim
Don't play that game
Anonymous No.17982411 >>17982499 >>17982500
>>17982402
Muslims aren’t pagans. What game?
Anonymous No.17982499 >>17984404
>>17982411
>you are an idol worshiper just like us!
He meant that game, it's a Christian favorite
Anonymous No.17982500 >>17982509 >>17982512
>>17982411
Muslims are idolators
Anonymous No.17982509
>>17982500
why are christians such blatant hypocrites?
Anonymous No.17982512 >>17982532 >>17982553
>>17982500
Muslims do not worship idols
Anonymous No.17982522
>>17982243
>We do. Catholics do, in fact
"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things" - DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH (LUMEN GENTIUM), SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS (POPE PAUL VI), ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964
Anonymous No.17982532 >>17982541
>>17982512
uh huh
Anonymous No.17982541 >>17982545 >>17984408
>>17982532
Disappear the cube and the stone and Muslims would still pray at the spot and to the spot. Are they idolaters still?
Anonymous No.17982545 >>17982549 >>17982556
>>17982541
Sure, you will
Sure, you will
Anonymous No.17982549 >>17982555
>>17982545
lol you don’t know anything gaslighting faggot
Anonymous No.17982553 >>17982558
>>17982512
they worship the quran
Anonymous No.17982555 >>17982560
>>17982549
I am not gaslighting
I am mocking you

We all know that your sex cult is dependent on the existence of Mecca

Once Saudi Arabia goes bankcrupt, Islam is dead.
Anonymous No.17982556 >>17982557
>>17982545
>idiot is on the history board and doesn't know this already happened at the hands of other muslims
Anonymous No.17982557 >>17982559
>>17982556
And the reason why you have to rebuild it over and over is because you cannot worship without it
Anonymous No.17982558
>>17982553
>words of God
>idol
No.
Anonymous No.17982559 >>17982562
>>17982557
>worship stopped until it was rebuilt
>muslims destroyed what allowed them to worship in the first place
lmao
Anonymous No.17982560 >>17982562
>>17982555
If Mecca were to disappear right now muslims would still find the spot and pray to that direction. You christcucks are mad that you worship idols and we don’t.
Anonymous No.17982562 >>17982567 >>17982573
>>17982559
>>17982560
Yes, yes, the spot is your idol
Your pedo cult can't leave that shithole

The world can reach the stars and you rapists would still be there :^)
Anonymous No.17982567 >>17982571 >>17984423
>>17982562
A spot dirt and air can’t be an idol because it was not man made
Anonymous No.17982571 >>17982586
>>17982567
Idol means "anything"

Place, tree, rock, lineage, anything but the maker
Anonymous No.17982573 >>17982578
>>17982562
>the spot is your idol
Guess Daniel was also an idolater for praying towards a spot. The same one muslims prayed to prior
Anonymous No.17982578 >>17982593
>>17982573
Praying towards it =! praying to it

We don't have the temple anymore and yet, we are here, calling you out for worshiping a degenerate :^)
Anonymous No.17982586 >>17982587
>>17982571
The dirt and air aren’t God.
Anonymous No.17982587 >>17982591
>>17982586
And he also isn't a pedophile :^)
Anonymous No.17982591 >>17982592
>>17982587
God isn’t a pedo neither was Muhammad. How are we idolators? A three dimensional spot isn’t an idol. It’s a spot that God say to pray towards.
Anonymous No.17982592
>>17982591
>neither was Muhammad
hehehehe
Anonymous No.17982593 >>17982598
>>17982578
>Praying towards it =! praying to it
Yes it is according to your logic. Show me one companion or muslim scholar that says we are praying to the spot itself.
>muh temple
The same one that is going to rebuilt and worship services resumed? And it is irrelevant, christian "laws" also dictate a direction for worship according to your saints
Anonymous No.17982598 >>17982603
>>17982593
Bro, you travel thousands of miles to kiss a rock
Stfu
Anonymous No.17982603 >>17982607
>>17982598
What's wrong with pilgrimage or kissing black stones as your bible teaches?
Anonymous No.17982607 >>17982623
>>17982603
Gee, I don't know
How's the rape in Mecca?
Anonymous No.17982623 >>17982627 >>17983105
>>17982607
>I don't know
Oh so it's another baseless claim, nice!
>rape
"Saudi Arabia has general crime rates 100 times lower than that of America. In 1981, the rates of forcible rape were 0.33 out of 100,000. Badr-el-din Ali suggests this may be due to Saudi Arabia having a synnomic state of culture, where everyone uncompromisingly shares the same values.[205]"
Anonymous No.17982627 >>17982633
>>17982623
Do you really believe that?
LOOOOOOOOOOL
Anonymous No.17982633 >>17982639 >>17982660 >>17983142
>>17982627
>muh conspiracy!
Guess I shouldn't believe the Vatican having pretty much the same rape statistics as KSA then. They are clearly hiding something
Anonymous No.17982639 >>17982655
>>17982633
Anonymous No.17982644 >>17982655
Christians and Muslims are both engaging in idolatry. Christians by making a man equal with YHWH and Muslims praying towards a meteorite and claiming their holy book is coeternal with God (apparently God speaks Arabic).

Of the two, most Christian denominations are probably worse offenders.
Anonymous No.17982655 >>17982663
>>17982639
>retarded points completely fail one by one
>changes the subject
>>17982644
>coeternal with God
Nope! "We have come to ask you about this matter (i.e. the start of creations)." He said, "First of all, there was nothing but Allah - https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3191"
Anonymous No.17982660 >>17982672
>>17982633
You are on the net
We know what Muslims do, and you're making us laugh
Anonymous No.17982663 >>17982668
>>17982655
>Many Muslims believe the Quran is uncreated, meaning it is an eternal attribute of God, not something God created. This view holds that God's speech is a part of His essence, and since God is eternal, His speech (the Quran) is also eternal.
Thanks Gemini
Anonymous No.17982668 >>17982671
>>17982663
Your chatbot is talking about the ashari understanding and they most certainly are not talking about any Arabic wording. The traditional understanding is that God's speech is uncreated but not eternal, since he speaks to us in time
Anonymous No.17982671
>>17982668
Isn't it time for you to pray to a meteor?
Anonymous No.17982672 >>17982677
>>17982660
>I have been fed propaganda by /pol/tards therefore I know how the world works
lmao
Anonymous No.17982677 >>17982688
>>17982672
News isn't propaganda
Government-released numbers are :^)
Anonymous No.17982688 >>17982692
>>17982677
>shitty infographics you got from xitter and tabloids isn't propaganda
sure thing
Anonymous No.17982692 >>17982695
>>17982688
You are posting government numbers
We know the truth
You know the truth

And we are laughing :)
Anonymous No.17982695 >>17982698
>>17982692
>official statistics bad
>literal who making up stuff good
Anonymous No.17982698
>>17982695
hehehehe
Anonymous No.17983105
>>17982623
What does the Quran say about women?
Anonymous No.17983110
>>17982205 (OP)
>Quran says that Muhammad flew to the moon and cut it in half

Why do you believe in flying Arabs anon?
Anonymous No.17983142 >>17983174
>>17982633
Uhh why didn't jesus drop a lightning storm right on that orgy spot?
Anonymous No.17983174 >>17983176 >>17983263 >>17983277
>>17983142
Oh you see, God used to do stuff like that but has ceased since basically we started recording history properly... Really makes you wonder. They'll totally get rekt in the afterlife if they don't repent though!

My personal view is they will face consequences in this life (drug charges, disease) and possibly in future ones (bad rebirth or misfortune in future lives).
Anonymous No.17983176 >>17983179
>>17983174
He still do that, actually, but it has always been super rare. There are like 500 years interval before he does supernatural stuff and there are always warning signs that he is getting pissed

He uses ordinary men for most
Anonymous No.17983179 >>17983208
>>17983176
>500 more years you'll see!
Is this the Christian "two more weeks"?

When was the last one, in your opinion?
Anonymous No.17983208 >>17983214
>>17983179
Fatima
Akita
Equador
Kibeho

He's been very active lately
Guess judgement day is coming and he wants everyone prepared
Anonymous No.17983214 >>17983216
>>17983208
Well I guess if you are so extremely credulous you'll believe some random kids who "saw the virgin Mary" you must accept Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, etc miracles with the same amount of evidence, no?
Anonymous No.17983216 >>17983218
>>17983214
All their prophecies happened and are happening right now

Ecuador predicted Sexual Revolution
Kibeho predicted the Rwanda Masscre
Akita predicted Pope Francis
Fatima predicted WW2 and predicts that Vatican will be raided by soldiers who would slaughter everyone

She never said silly things like a fly on your glass of milk should be dunked deeper

The prophets told us to test the spirits, and tests we shall do
Anonymous No.17983218 >>17983220
>>17983216
Matthew 4:7 NRSV
[7] Jesus said to him, β€œAgain it is written, β€˜Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ ”

https://bible.com/bible/2016/mat.4.7.NRSV


>MFW a Catholic doesn't know the Bible
Anonymous No.17983220 >>17983229
>>17983218
Even the devil can quote the scripture.
Won't work.

Go fuck a goat
Anonymous No.17983229 >>17983232
>>17983220
Wow, really loving your neighbor as yourself... assuming you fuck goats?

Funny how you assume I'm Muslim and tailor your barbs for a negative stereotype of people in the Islamicate world. Good luck with your quest for truth.
Anonymous No.17983232 >>17983237
>>17983229
Don't ask us to set a standard that you are not willing to give

We love our neighbor
We destroy snakes

If you worship lies, then you deserve what you get
Anonymous No.17983237 >>17983239
>>17983232
Really following the example of Jesus there, this will win you a lot of converts - referring to non-Christians asking questions as snakes.
Anonymous No.17983239 >>17983244
>>17983237
You worship a pedophile.
You are worthless
Anonymous No.17983244 >>17983246
>>17983239
You are posting little girls and lashing out imagining I'm Muslim. Me thinks you are projecting a bit. Oh, and if we want to talk about pedophiles... can't forget about those priests and the Roman Catholic Church covering it up.
Anonymous No.17983246 >>17983256
>>17983244
Everything has pedophiles
But you worship one

You are worth less than dirt
Anonymous No.17983256 >>17983258
>>17983246
1) Muslims do not worship Mohammed
2) I am not a Muslim
Thanks.
Anonymous No.17983258 >>17983260
>>17983256
Face the truth and confess.
You are filthy.
Anonymous No.17983260 >>17983261
>>17983258
Utterly deranged.
Anonymous No.17983261 >>17983271
>>17983260
Save yourself, i beg of thee
Anonymous No.17983263 >>17983271 >>17983272
>>17983174
>God used to do stuff like that but has ceased since basically we started recording history properly
He stopped with the death of the last apostle, because the purpose of miracles is to confirm His word which He has not given since then. There were ancient church fathers who noted that miracles had ceased.
Anonymous No.17983271 >>17983275 >>17983293
>>17983261
If I can save myself, I guess I don't need a savior?

>>17983263
Cessationism is a convenient argument.
Anonymous No.17983272 >>17983293
>>17983263
No, there weren't
Everyone adheres to the fact that miracles are still happening

Eusebius of Caesarea personally documented many miracles, such as Miracles of Narcissus and the Plant of Caesarea Philippi:
Anonymous No.17983275 >>17983283
>>17983271
Save yourself by rejecting your pedophile and facing the Truth, dumbass
Anonymous No.17983277 >>17983283
>>17983174
>They'll totally get rekt in the afterlife if they don't repent though!
You mock this? Do you think you can escape the judgement of hell, or that the arrows of God's wrath no longer find their targets? Does God not have unlimited means of sending sinners to hell? How do you suppose you will escape the court date, will you live forever? Do not delude yourself either that your death is far off, for a bird does not fall without the Father's knowledge, He can and often does stop your heart in a sudden moment. Those who are not in Christ hang over a precipice, they stand suspended above the gaping maw of hell and nothing prevents their descent except an uncovenanted, incensed God. Therefore flee your wickedness to the only hope for salvation which any sinner has, the cross of Jesus who suffered the totality of the penalty against all who repent and believe.
Anonymous No.17983283 >>17983295
>>17983275
So arrogant. I feel bad for you. Also for the churches having to deal with Pharisees like you turning people off religion in general and Christianity in particular.

>>17983277
Sorry, not buying an omnipotent God who can't create a world not filled with evil. Read your Euthyphro.
Anonymous No.17983293 >>17984276
>>17983271
>Cessationism is a convenient argument.
It is also a historically orthodox one
>>17983272
>No, there weren't
Yes, there were
>Everyone adheres to the fact that miracles are still happening
No, they don't. Example: John Chrysostom, commenting on 1 Corinthins 12, says "This whole place is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation, being such as then used to occur but now no longer take place. And why do they not happen now? Why look now, the cause too of the obscurity has produced us again another question: namely, why did they then happen, and now do so no more?"
>Eusebius of Caesarea
If some fathers believed miracles continued to happen, this would not imply all fathers believed it. Even one is sufficient to refute the claim that miracles ceased with the development of modern history.
Anonymous No.17983295 >>17983306
>>17983283
>Sorry, not buying an omnipotent God who can't create a world not filled with evil
He didn't create a world filled with evil.
Anonymous No.17983306
>>17983295
I agree, the Jewish god did NOT create the world.
Anonymous No.17983344
>>17982397
Yeah instead you worship le magic rock in the desert lmao
Anonymous No.17983600 >>17983660 >>17983679 >>17984278
>>17982205 (OP)
This thread confirms that Christians do not even know what idolatry is. Apparently it's everything but an actual idol. Let's see what the bible says.
>Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or ANY LIKENESS OF ANY THING that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
So what is the cube an image of again?
Anonymous No.17983660 >>17983679 >>17983696
>>17983600
As per the first paragraph of this excerpt, Augustine refers to people who think the image hears them and sees them; people who even view the image as having a reality greater than that which it represents. No Christian today says in their heart: "this icon or this statue is the true saint (or the true God)." They instead recognise it for what it is - wood and paint, or perhaps stone, shaped into something approximating a likeness. But they do not worship these things or what they represent; rather, they honour the image inasmuch as they believe that the honour passes to the prototype.
Anonymous No.17983679
>>17983600
>>17983660
From this passage, however, it would be hard not to conclude that Augustine was iconoclastic.
Anonymous No.17983696 >>17983743
>>17983660
>They instead recognise it for what it is - wood and paint, or perhaps stone, shaped into something approximating a likenes
That's the same position Hindus hold for their idols. Only extremely primitive societies believe the statue itself is their deity.
>But they do not worship these things or what they represent
They worship the one the image points to because they supplicate to them for supernatural things only God can grant. There's zero difference between praying to God and praying to Mary for example. One is just called Latria and the other Hyperdulia in name but it is the exact action performed towards different entities.
Anonymous No.17983743 >>17983764 >>17984123
>>17983696
>There's zero difference between praying to God and praying to Mary for example
There's a major difference. In the first place, Mary is only honoured through prayer, never worshiped. And while Catholics will pray "to" Mary, it is more correct in modern parlance to say they ask her to pray for them. No Christian believes that Mary is able to grant anything of herself, separate from God.
Anonymous No.17983764 >>17984123 >>17984302 >>17984350
>>17983743
>never worshiped
Except they explicitly say that during their prayer sessions. But the main problem is that this just becomes a distinction that only exists in words but not reality. There is nothing different at all performed by a christian begging Jesus to save their child from cancer or begging Mary to do the same.
>No Christian believes that Mary is able to grant anything of herself, separate from God.
They just believe she can order God to do whatever she wants making her functionally omnipotent.
Anonymous No.17984123 >>17984302
>>17983743
I'm going to echo what >>17983764 said, the difference between "worship" and "veneration" or whatever term you use to describe your relation to Mary and the saints is a distinction without a difference. You're still praying to a human when you could ask God directly.

>but they've made God answer my prayer differently
Oh, so the saint can change the will of your supposedly unchanging God, change his "no" to a "yes" because they were REALLY good in their life? Like, God decided he wasn't going to let you find your keys before work, but you pray to St Anthony and this annuls God's will?
Anonymous No.17984276
>>17983293
That was a comment on Corinth 1;12, which refers to the gifts of the holy spirit
He believes that the gifts have ceased, not that miracles have stopped entirely

John Chrusostom is a firm believer in miracles, but has advocated the belief that it is better to focus on internal miracles than external ones
Anonymous No.17984278 >>17984293
>>17983600
Key word is *graven

Do you think that the golden calf is an image of God?
Anonymous No.17984293 >>17984299
>>17984278
The key words are ANY LIKENESS OF ANY THING. That means you aren't allowed to make your "icons" too
Anonymous No.17984299 >>17984322
>>17984293
*graven
Anonymous No.17984302 >>17984312 >>17984322
>>17983764
>>17984123
No-one believes that Mary can order God around or change His will. Scripture nevertheless affirms that the prayers of a righteous person availeth much. Christians are a family, and, like any family there is an economy of love that sees people communicate and intercede for other another. And this is despite the fact that there is one head of the household, and only one individual with true and lasting authority.
Anonymous No.17984312 >>17984376
>>17984302
miracle of Cana, bro
Mary managed to convince the Lord

Jesus told her that it is not yet the time for miracles, but since it was she who asked, the plans were accelerated

Yes, Mary can convince the Lord
Anonymous No.17984322 >>17984336 >>17984350
>>17984299
The bible uses the word that refers to any image or representation.
>>17984302
>No-one believes that Mary can order God around
I just showed you where her "prayers" are orders he follows and how because of this Catholics call her omnipotent
Anonymous No.17984336 >>17984377
>>17984322
keyword is representation
Texts can be representative of God, too, but you are not going to say that writing the Bible is idolatry

The Keyword is *graven, not images itself
Anonymous No.17984350 >>17984377
>>17984322
>>17983764
Words from the Saint aren't words of the Magisterium
We have saints who condemned the use of Fork.

The Catholic doctrine is that Mary is an intercessor, not a commander
Anonymous No.17984376
>>17984312
Convincing someone and bossing them about are two different things.
Anonymous No.17984377 >>17984395 >>17984410
>>17984336
Text is not in the likeness of God sorry unless you believe your deity is literally a bunch of Hebrew and Greek letters. Your graven cope also doesn't make sense because the translations place that prior to the word OR and also it can just mean idol anyway.
>>17984350
Yes she is an intercessor via her role as the Son's commander. The dormition and assumption of Mary and her innocence practically equates her to Jesus anyway. She was not a sacrifice but ends up the same way as he does
Anonymous No.17984395 >>17984412
>>17984377
>Yes she is an intercessor via her role as the Son's commander.
No-one believes that Mary is superior to Christ or that she is somehow His commanding officer. You keep attributing beliefs to Catholics that they simply don't possess, which makes it impossible to communicate with you.
Anonymous No.17984404 >>17984420 >>17984697
>>17982499
Muslims are polytheistic. Thats why they can't understand how three persons are the same God. Allah is unknowable, and they all worship their own unique understanding. If they are threated with death, they practice taqiyya to preserve their own personal beliefe system, and you wont know what that is, because they will lie about it.
Anonymous No.17984408
>>17982541
>spining around in circles isn't idle motion.
Lulz

>that's not what the word idol means.
Lulz
Anonymous No.17984410 >>17984414
>>17984377
>Text is not in the likeness of God
Anything can be in the likeness of God, even a golden calf, or a meteorite, or the moon
Anonymous No.17984412 >>17984416 >>17984431
>>17984395
>No-one believes that Mary is superior to Christ or that she is somehow His commanding officer.
I showed you where that is the case so you claiming "no-one" is just a lie. These are saints, that means your church approved of them
Anonymous No.17984414 >>17984418
>>17984410
>anything looks like God
wow no wonder you worship everything under the sun
Anonymous No.17984416 >>17984426
>>17984412
The saints are not above the magisterium
Anonymous No.17984418
>>17984414
You worship a pedophile
Don't throw rocks in a glass house
Anonymous No.17984420 >>17984492
>>17984404
>they can't understand how three persons are the same God.
You don't understand it bro so how can you expect us to do it?
Anonymous No.17984423
>>17982567
The obsession with spinning around in circles is a man made compulsion, and its not getting you any closer to heaven. Does the all mighty infinite universe really care about some ants in a toilet bowl. Wake up.

Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

If you want to worship God. Do good.
Anonymous No.17984426 >>17984430
>>17984416
Show me where the magisterium said these saints are wrong
Anonymous No.17984430 >>17984441
>>17984426
Anything outside of the magisterium is wrong
Anonymous No.17984431 >>17984441
>>17984412
"No-one" in this case refers to the vast majority of the faithful. This is what I mean - it's impossible to talk with you because you don't interact in good faith.
Anonymous No.17984441 >>17984451
>>17984430
>Anything outside of the magisterium is wrong
Show me where they preach this
>>17984431
>majority
What they say doesn't matter. Many don't even believe the bread you eat on Sundays is actually Jesus' flesh.
Anonymous No.17984451 >>17984470
>>17984441
DEI VERBUM

Scriptures, Tradition, Magisterium
Anonymous No.17984470 >>17984482
>>17984451
Where specifically does it say everything outside of the magisterium is wrong?
Anonymous No.17984482 >>17984493
>>17984470
read it
Anonymous No.17984492 >>17984501
>>17984420
I understand it. I hope for your sake that you can figure it out, because Hubris leads to nemesis.

Three persons are the same God.

β€œOf all the commandments, which is the most important?”

β€œThe most important one,” answered Jesus, β€œis this: β€˜Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: β€˜Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these.”

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
Anonymous No.17984493 >>17984506 >>17984622
>>17984482
I did, nothing stands out there that says everything outside of what they say is just wrong. The Catechism says the same things, still it leaves open the Holy Spirit teaching people things that are not in the text.
Anonymous No.17984501 >>17984662 >>17984664
>>17984492
>I understand it.
Where is the analogy?
>Three persons are the same God.
Does that mean three human persons in a room are the same human too?
>On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
Jesus prayed for the disciples to be in the Father the same way he is. Are they part of the godhead?
Anonymous No.17984506 >>17984514
>>17984493
No
Anonymous No.17984514 >>17984622
>>17984506
That doesn't say everything outside of the magisterium is wrong so I am not sure why you are posting that. I need to see where your saints are restricted from speaking about anything theological unless every word is explicitly approved by them.
Anonymous No.17984622 >>17984629
>>17984493
>>17984514
"Guided by the Holy Spirit" means it must not contradict the Scriptures or Tradition

The Magisterium is the one supervising it, as they are the scholars and librarians who understand ancient languages and culture and can read it within context

Anything that contradicts the magisterium is a wrong
Anonymous No.17984629 >>17984636
>>17984622
>Anything that contradicts the magisterium is a wrong
Great but you haven't demonstrated how what they are saying made them heretics and that's the problem. I am fully aware you believe your popes and church hold the final word. Something being said outside the magesterium does not automatically mean it contradicts it.
Anonymous No.17984636 >>17984645
>>17984629
If it is not approved by the Magisterium, it is taken with a grain of salt
If it contradicts, it is heresy
Anonymous No.17984645 >>17984655
>>17984636
You can take it with a grain of salt but that doesn't change the fact that your saints still believed she is God's commander and that makes her omnipotent and your key to salvation. Nothing they said contradicts dogma
Anonymous No.17984655 >>17984668
>>17984645
No. The Magisterium is above the saints.

Also, you are taking it out of context. The line you're quoting refers to how God takes command from Mary out of *shared authority, not superiority.

It's a family.
Not a dictatorship like your Allah, who only wanted slaves
Anonymous No.17984662 >>17984679
>>17984501
>Where is the analogy?
Now there were six stone water jars there for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding a measure of two, or three.
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.
Now, do whatever he tells you.
>Does that mean three human persons in a room are the same human too?
They can be of one mind, and of one body. Yes.
>Does that mean three human persons in a room are the same human too?
Thomas, β€œPut your finger here; see my hands"

Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Do good.

He is risen.
He is risen indeed.
Anonymous No.17984664
>>17984501
>Jesus prayed for the disciples to be in the Father the same way he is. Are they part of the godhead?
Thomas, β€œPut your finger here; see my hands"

Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Do good.

He is risen.
He is risen indeed.
Anonymous No.17984668 >>17984686 >>17984691
>>17984655
>No. The Magisterium is above the saints.
I never denied that. Again I am not sure why you are bringing their authority up when they never pronounced anathema. The very fact they don't contradict is a problem for you. That "shared authority" is what gives Mary her right to boss the Son around according to those saints and your church said nothing against this as far as I am aware
>slaves
You are a slave to Jesus according to the bible...
Anonymous No.17984679 >>17984692
>>17984662
>Now there were six stone water jars there for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding a measure of two, or three.For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.
That's not an analogy of the trinity. Try again!
>They can be of one mind, and of one body. Yes.
You believe three people in a room share one mind and one body and that makes them one person? Anyway you can't say they have the same mind unless you believe the Father can be tempted by evil
>do not keep on babbling like pagans
That's what you were just doing.
Anonymous No.17984686
>>17984668
β€œWho is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, β€œHere are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Do whatever he tells you.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: β€˜Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
Anonymous No.17984691 >>17984811
>>17984668
She is not a boss; she is the mother

She holds authority over Jesus, but that doesn't mean that Jesus is a slave. Mary commands out of love and he follows out of love.

This is a family.

And yes, we are all slaves. The question is, who is your master
Worship the Lord, and he will exalt you as if you were his child.

Worship a pedophile, and you will join him
Anonymous No.17984692 >>17984811
>>17984679
>one person?
Three persons.
One God.

There is no commandment greater than these.
Anonymous No.17984697 >>17984700
>>17984404
>Muslims are polytheistic
>oh BTW here are my three gods who are actually one god because reasons* and also (if Catholic/EO) I pray to the saints and worship relics and images

Dude, I'm neither Christian nor Muslim but for a Christian to call Muslims "polytheistic" is quite silly. They don't even call Christians that, despite it being more apt. If anyone takes the idea of "no graven images" seriously it's the Muselmen. Just look at how they decorate their mosques/masjids.

*reasons that no Christian can adequately explain besides "it is a mystery"
Anonymous No.17984700 >>17984719
>>17984697
The don't hide your faith
You worship a pedophile. Stand by it
Anonymous No.17984719 >>17984726 >>17984793
>>17984700
I'm not Muslim. Also, you don't understand Islam at all. They don't worship their prophet, they don't think he was a god like what you think about Jesus. At least try to somewhat understand what you are arguing against.
Anonymous No.17984726 >>17984736 >>17984851
>>17984719
Worship means to rule above your life
He is the one giving commands, he is the one you emulate
Therefore, you worship him and his immorality
Anonymous No.17984736 >>17984741
>>17984726
Ah so if we use your definition Roman Catholics worship the Pope and their local altar boy molesting priests.
Anonymous No.17984741 >>17984747
>>17984736
We worship Christ
Anonymous No.17984747
>>17984741
All right dude, with your wild fantasy-based accusations and arguing in bad faith, I'm done. Good luck becoming less ignorant when you turn 18.
Anonymous No.17984793 >>17984811
>>17984719
They dont think anyone can know God, so their definition of God had no meaning. Thats why they spin in circles worshiping a point on the ground.
Anonymous No.17984811 >>17984838 >>17984904 >>17984922
>>17984691
>She holds authority over Jesus
And that makes her the boss...
>Worship the Lord
How about you start doing that? Jesus never said to associate partners with the Father such as his mother or himself. You even quoted the greatest commandment.
>muh pedo
Bro you literally believe your deity came on Mary when she was 12 (according to early tradition, archaeological evidence, etc) to breed with her and the lived in her womb for 9 months, doesn't seem very consensual. Why does every christian argument have to turn into this shitfest? I don't even believe the authenticity of those particular hadith because of both traditional and secular modern critical methodology
>>17984692
You believe they share the same mind and body so what exactly makes them 3 persons?
>>17984793
>They dont think anyone can know God
Nobody says this. https://www.abuaminaelias.com/whoever-knows-himself-knows-his-lord/ You are the ones that believe in divine simplicity who say God has no distinction in attributes making his love and wrath one and the same thing
Anonymous No.17984838 >>17984851
>>17984811
>to breed with her
Swing and a miss
Anonymous No.17984851
>>17984726
>He is the one giving commands
Nope! https://islamqa.info/en/answers/77243
>>17984838
He literally procreated with her, genetic material from Mary was mixed with his own. The same being that was birthed is also the same one that impregnated her.
Anonymous No.17984904 >>17984908
>>17984811
>what exactly makes them 3 persons?
Identity.
Anonymous No.17984908 >>17984958
>>17984904
Identity of what? There's one center of consciousness since there is one mind. And there is one being/body according to you.
Anonymous No.17984922
>>17984811
>Nobody says this
Then I will say to nobody,
>Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord.
Because everyone must already follow this command. Perhaps that is why it is the first, and also the one that can not be disobeyed.

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

β€œYou shall have no other gods before

me"

Now, let's love our neighbor as we love ourself, and accept that 3 persons are one God.

Where two or three gather in my name, there I am with them
Anonymous No.17984958 >>17985074
>>17984908
>Identity of what?
Infinity
>According to you.
According to us.
Anonymous No.17985074 >>17985205
>>17984958
>Infinity
In the previous analogy we were talking about human persons. How are they infinite?
Anonymous No.17985205 >>17985216
>>17985074
The chain of causes behind their will is infinite.
Anonymous No.17985216 >>17985240
>>17985205
Do Christians now believe in an infinite chain of causes like atheists who reject an uncaused first cause?
Anonymous No.17985240 >>17985243 >>17985332 >>17985369
>>17985216
Atheist dont reject an uncaused first cause. Hey call it the big bang.
Anonymous No.17985243
>>17985240
>Hey
*they
Anonymous No.17985332
>>17985240
>nothing exploded, creating everything
worse than creationism, much worse than the universe always existing.
Anonymous No.17985369
>>17985240
Atheists are very diverse when it comes to their cosmology. Many of them in fact rejected the big bang when it was first proposed, some inclined to do so because it resembles creationism and the fact that a Catholic priest proposed it. For example this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Weinberg but in general they seem to be agnostic about the need for an uncaused cause or that there ever was a first one to begin with