Thread 17982968

Historically speaking, where did this modern liberal western idea that the people in these totalitarian regimes (China, USSR, Fascist Italy etc.) that lasted decades were all just going along with it solely because they are propagandized and cowed into subservience via mass terror? Really? NOBODY benefited and supported rapid industrialization, a huge reduction in crime and chaos, mass modernization, mass electrification of the countryside, and massively improved education and literacy rates? Are we serious here? You can argue it was immoral and evil and built off exploitation sure, that’s fine. I’m not arguing about the ethical aspect I’m arguing that the idea that every single person was hypnotized into supporting dictatorship with no upsides is impossible. Clearly the stability it provided was a big source of support.

>>17982968 (OP)
>I’m arguing that the idea that every single person was hypnotized into supporting dictatorship with no upsides is impossible
nice bro, you sure owned that ridiculous strawman position you made up

>>17982968 (OP)
Wasn't Mao and Stalin both pedophiles and why are leftists okay with that?

>>17982971
This is the modern liberal western position on the topic yes.

>>17982975
prove it then, if you can

>>17982973
Hitler was also a pedophile since he started liking Eva when she was a teenager. Nobody gave a shit about AOC before the 80’s

>>17982975
Communists are just edgy liberals in denial.

>>17982968 (OP)
>a huge reduction in crime and chaos,
Pretty easy to do when the crime is replaced by the state.

>>17982976
>prove something you know is true via empirical evidence
I live in a western country and this has been the narrative about dictatorships and “authoritarian” regimes since I was a child

>>17982984
then it should be easy for you to provide an example of someone arguing it, but you can't, because it's not actually the narrative but rather a straw man your retarded ass just made up.

>>17982987
>i-its a strawman
It’s not and you know it’s not. Why do liberals deny their own arguments? Are they ashamed?

>>17982982
>wtf the state kills political dissidents?! that means we need to be ruled by bandits drug dealers now!

>>17982991
Liberals are just making the same arguments communists do so you're arguing with yourself

>>17982996
Yeah don't you love it when the state can decide to kill innocents because they dissagree.

>>17982981
Never even stated I was a communist. Why can’t you answer my question? >>17982997
Liberals will unironically argue that millions of Chinese were brainwashed into supporting Mao and the CCP for no reason or benefit to themselves lol.

>>17983002
Mao was just another warlord only difference is he used commie retoric and won.

>>17983001
So true! That’s why we need to destroy the state and be ruled by drug dealers who will rape my daughter! So tolerant :)

>>17983002
Communists will unironically argue millions of people are brainwashed by capitalism, like, you guys are the same dude
You're arguing against yourself dude

>>17983018
I’m not a commie retard I don’t give a shit about one system or the other. Clearly most Americans like free market capitalism and at least *some* aspects of political liberalism and democracy since they do nothing to change it so it must work for them. Likewise with these countries.

>>17982991
if you cannot back up your claims then they are quite worthless. Provide 1 (one) example of someone saying that all Chinese and Soviets were serviles blinded by propaganda to show this is the "modern liberal western idea" about them.

>>17983007
This argument is weird because Mao and Stalin were both pedophiles
Being a communist means you're okay with pedophilia.

>>17983006
Very ignorant statement, no warlord engaged in anything resembling the radical land reform of the CCP undertaken during the civil war.

>>17983031
I was told that it was commie feminists that raised the age of consent in western countries to subvert it with lower birth rates though

>>17983024
>Most Americans like free market capitalism and democracy
But the U.S. is neither of these things so that doesn't seem to be true
The U.S. is a highly regulated market economy and not even democracy. Are sure you're not the retard here?

>>17983034
But Lenin, and many communists defended abortion like liberals do?

>>17983038
> The U.S. is a highly regulated market economy and not even democracy
Semantics. Was Italy not truly “fascist” because it had a king? Was Hitlers Germany not really “Nazi” because they gave Finnish Jews and Brownoids serving in the SS iron crosses? Chinas not socialist because it has big companies? The U.S. promotes and embodies the reality of both these concepts.

>>17982968 (OP)
> NOBODY benefited and supported rapid industrialization
Industrialization wasn't free. It was often paid for with peasants' blood, sweat, and grain. While urban dwellers benefited, the countryside was often left far worse off.

>>17983048
>Semantics?
If you're admitting semantics don't matter, that truth is subjective, then there's no reason to address any of your points because you're admitting you're a nihilist. It's a waste of time to talk to you.

>>17983054
Fair enough. So the people in urban areas saw the bulk of the benefits. That’s honest

>>17983056
Retard, YOU are the one arguing that these words don’t have meaning if their best examples aren’t 100% accurate

>>17983061
But that's not what happened, you made a false claim about the U.S., and when I correct you, you cried and shat yourself over it being semantically correct.

>>17982968 (OP)
>where did this modern liberal western idea that the people in these totalitarian regimes (China, USSR, Fascist Italy etc.) that lasted decades were all just going along with it solely because they are propagandized and cowed into subservience via mass terror?
That is quite literally what happened. These countries controlled their flow of people so that the outside capitalist world couldn't be shown to them. Even top-brass elites like Yeltsin had scarcely visited the western world (hence the shock he had once he finally got out).

>NOBODY benefited and supported rapid industrialization, a huge reduction in crime and chaos, mass modernization, mass electrification of the countryside, and massively improved education and literacy rates?
Comparing to the past is stupid because they likely would've had access to these too had they became liberal capitalist. They benefitted from it sure, but they only supported their socialist party because they thought that the alternative was mass hunger for the top rich.

>Clearly the stability it provided was a big source of support.
What stability ? These communist countries kept having coups and revolutions. The only one that didn't for most of its lifetime (the ussr) had to violently quell the rebellions in its satellite republics.

>>17983071
nta but the US is not a highly regulated economy and is a representative democracy.
Saying otherwise becaue "Muh monopoly laws!!!" amounts indeed to semantics

>>17983018
>everyone else is brainwashed except me
lol

>>17983031
whataboutism and appeal to emotions

>>17983332
>These countries controlled their flow of people so that the outside capitalist world couldn't be shown to them ... They benefitted from it sure, but they only supported their socialist party because they thought that the alternative was mass hunger for the top rich.
That's pretty accurate. The Soviet population was kept fairly ignorant of the outside world to such a degree that stories from the (select few) people who traveled abroad were not believed in by many people. Like, you can just go into a store and buy whatever you want? I don't think people realized how provincial most people were back then. But then relative comparison to their own background is also a factor because you were no longer literally starving to death.

>>17982968 (OP)
YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL YELLOW PERIL

>>17982968 (OP)
No, they don't have to be cowed into subservience, the chinese are naturally deferential to authority, they need to follow a leader. It's been bred into them over the millennia, to bow their heads and do whatever the government tells them to do.

>>17982968 (OP)
It's easier to call everyone brainwashed than to admit that people might support a system that materially benefits them. :|