Thread 17983217

Spaniards are not mediterranean and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
Claiming that Spaniards are meds simply go against every single genetic evidence.
A Spaniard is far more a foreigner in Greece than in Belgium or France
It would make far more sense for Italians and Greeks to claim kinship with Lebanese and Syrians than with spaniards as they are culturally and genetically far closer to them.
That "Spaniards are meds" is a psyop

>>17983217 (OP)
Can you curse vishnu or mohammed?

>>17983217 (OP)
Spaniards themselves mostly think of themselves as meds because they like graeco-roman culture, also how they look frankly plays a part (French people, their closest relatives, have an history of discrimination towards them)
It's their own gusto.
Genetically they are mostly southern shifted celts.

>>17983249
I curse both vishnu and mohameds
>French people, their closest relatives, have an history of discrimination towards them
It goes both ways and a lot of French are in denial over their genetic makeup. Also southern French were also historically discriminated by northern ones and I don't even think Spaniards and France are that similar.

>>17983267
>I curse both vishnu and mohameds

Considering you're not an hypothetical indian schizo, I'll be honest with you, and take your question seriously.

When it comes to ethnic identity in Europe specifically, language and culture is what almost everyone looks to, with phenotype or whatever coming second. Yes, I know language is not race, but a lot of european ethnicities are based on a shared language and culture, and have been for centuries now. Obviously, im not counting immigrants when discussing this, only natives.

The average person doesn't care about genetics and only have a vague generalized idea on how their ancestry is formed (if any at all). So although you're right, it won't matter that much in practice.

Spanish and portuguese people see themselves as latin european, like the italians, french and romanians. And they do this MORE SO than identifying themselves with the concept of Mediterranean proper, or even concerning themselves to lump in greek as a "kindered nation". Mediterranean is just an afterthought to being part of romance speaking nations.

There's a sliver of galician and asturian nationalists and neo-pagans (and I guess portugal probably has some too), that see themselves as celtic and identify more with the celtic iron age culture of northwestern Spain rather than the shared latin culture they have with other countries. These tend to see themselves as kindered to Insular celts because they all have a very surface level, and pop culture influenced, view of "celticness". The discussion on whether or not the celts from iberia were actual celts or just celticized Iberians is not something that I care for nor concerns your argument.

TL;DR: Iberians see themselves more as romance/latin europeans rather than mediterraneans proper. Just a pointless semantics issue.

Are Italian and Greek genes all you ever talk about? You make a thread at least once a day. This is mental.

>>17983312

>>17983325
i dislike that spaniards are constantly associated with them, they should be with their levantine brothers not iberians
>>17983312
that's bollock, no walloon would say he is closer to a sicilian than a german

>>17983347
Spaniards themselves associate with them.
I have constantly on the TL "our metaphysical brothers from Italy" ???

>>17983347
You post about this daily. You need psychological help.

>>17983384
>Spaniards themselves associate with them.
that's false spanish nationalism always looked toward the north and the west more than the east and the south
mediteranism is promoted by latin american immigrants often of italian origin themselves.
then dumb normies who only see superficial similarities probably think that but it's irrelevant, they also probably think they are closer to morocco than to britain

>>17983395
I sincerely don't care what spaniards think of themselves. However from my experience, Italy and Greece are their own thing, and happy to be so, Spain kinda wants to be with them for reasons I don't grasp. Italians don't associate with spaniards out of their own volition.

>>17983399
>Spain kinda wants to be with them for reasons I don't grasp
then why whenever a spaniard post a g25 charts displaying a higher genetic closeness to britons than to calabrians there's a global spaghetti nigga sperg out?
I could make the experiment right now if you don't believe me, I've seen it happened time and time again.

>>17983404
Because you are depicting them as balding and as if they want to be the same as you? Lmao

>>17983405
no not just me i've just seen italians malding whenever you tell that they are closer to lebanese and syrians than to spaniards, it frequently happen
why are you so ashamed of your syrian brothers?

>>17983411
Because they are not particularly close to either. They form their own cluster.
You're just obsessed and want to be compared to them for no reason.

>>17983417
you're as distant to them as some northern italians, they're your brothers

>>17983423
Southern italians aren't particularly close to some northern italians either, yes.
Italy is alive because of central italians that are related to both, certainly not because of southern italians.

>>17983217 (OP)
You CIA fucks who run divide and conquer tactics are going to get raped by China

>>17983430
here's a good example of what i was saying
spaniards don't want to be associated with wops and greeks
https://x.com/ApellidosNoname/status/1928075776160563689

>>17983440
CIA fucks? This guy's some obsessed latrinx.

>>17983441
Actually I do

I hate “white” people

>>17983441
I'm too busy to find it now but I remember BorealBaron a big Spanish account with 30K+ followers calling out mediteranism

>>17983445
we know abdul, thanks for being sincere

>>17983447
BorealBaron literally sucks off ancient greece 24/7 and admitted southern italians are the closest. Worst example possible lol

>>17983455
>BorealBaron literally sucks off ancient greece 24/7
he thinks they were nordics like all bapists
>southern italians are the closest
he never said that
so what now you're trying to claim spaniards again? claim syrians please.

>>17983217 (OP)
White people are all very closely related, relative to non whites who are all distantly related to whites.

Whites are the original Europeans, north Africans, and Levantine people. So if person is not white, you can tell they do not belong.

>>17983464
Straight up said the UK has no claim on ancient greece, genetical or cultural, and that modern greeks do. You can look up the post, it was about some artifacts in the british museum.

>>17983450
Sorry, it’s just that you’re all idiots barbarians

I know the truth
What’s worse is you have people like Irish truly believing they’re white

Midget freaks

>>17983477
ok but he defended you once and you mistake his generosity for submission like all semitic subhumans do. he still said that spaniards were not meds and that for example there was nothing med about a basque.

>>17983502
He was talking to his nordic masters, italians and greeks have no business on spanish self-ID.

>>17983505
you make 0 sense.
the point is that spanish nationalists have always rejected the meditteranean, and italians and greeks are the ones trying to bring us down to their level of high criminality and failed economies, just like their syro-lebanese brothers to whom they are closer, I also gave you another proof here : >>17983441

>>17983511
Italy is richer than spain, stop scapegoating everything on them, you're obsessed

>>17983516
north Italy yes. You would have noticed that I wasn't talking about them here.

>>17983518
Much of central italy as well. And a lot of southern regions are richer than most of spain.
It's in general a richer country.

>>17983528
>And a lot of southern regions are richer than most of spain
In your dream only. the Campania-Apulia-Calabria-Sicily belt is even poorer than the Andalusia-Extramadura-Canaria one which is the poorest of Spain, and unlike the former they don't receive infinite gibs for the north, the Catalans and Basque being pretty reluctant to share their €

>>17983535
*from the north

>>17983535
There is no need to dream bro.

>>17983540
>PPP
why did I knew that you would post this economically illiterate third world cope

>>17983540
and btw even your cope show campania, calabria & cie being on par with the poorest regions of spain
the terroni master race can't even outcompete the poorest parts of spain, just wow

notice how all the cities that aren't flooded by immigrants are the terroni ones?
probably because terronistan was flooded by immigrants from the near east already 2000 years ago and now they're the majority of the population

Iberogermanic why did you start to post anti south Italians and Greeks stuff again? I thought you stopped?

>>17983565
summer's over dude, i was in vacation so didn't really thought about this but now i'm back to my daily mundane life and baiting wops is one way to pass the time like any others

>>17983565
This iberogermanic person, is he even ibero or germanic? Or he is the fat latrinx that looks like a pajeet that got doxxed? Much to pander about

>>17983588
No he's 1/8 Spanish 7/8 Flemish
He speaks French fluently like it's his birth language reducing the possibility of him being a latinx to 0.

>>17983588
he posts under a french flag on his, he admitted this is just anti italian trolling to him

The division in Spain is not north-south but east-west. From a cultural (and even genetic) point of view the Spanish from the mediterranean regions are different (in a slight way) from Spanish from the Atlantic regions).

It is funny that some people believe that someone from deep rural old Castilla that lives 10 hours away from the sea and that he has just seen the coast 4-5 times in his life, is considered a "mediterranean". People from the west are more Neolithic-Celtic than Neolithic-Iberian-Phoenician-Punic-etc in the East of Spain.

Also the behaviour tend to be different. Mediterranean Spaniards are more loud, extroverted, social than west-north Spaniards.

This kind of threads are always so gay.

>omg guys I did the DNA test on a mixed race brown slave from southern Europe and that means we were literally greeks/romans/egyptians etc.

Lol

>>17983752
Shitalian and Gayreeks do be like that

>>17983217 (OP)
flemish, today the french will remove their iberian (bearn origin so basically iberian) leader probably

>>17983802
yes, he's unironically the best PM we had in a while and not just because of what he said about boomers. And he's the most iberian one, i keep getting vindicated. (Manu Valls was half swiss italian on his mother btw so he's technically less iberian)

>>17983811
he's shit, easy to say the truth when you're one step away from retirement
only a germanic man can rule the french

>>17983817
when has france ever had a good ruler of germanic origin since the carolingian?

>>17983817
also not just because the boomer word, he was just overall more competent than the ones we had before.

>>17983580
Yeah right an absolute basement dwelling unemployed loser like you goes on ''vacation'' lol

>>17983838
>he was just overall more competent than the ones we had before.
lol
https://www.20minutes.fr/economie/4170937-20250904-dette-publique-ville-pau-croule-sous-dettes-depuis-arrivee-francois-bayrou-mairie

>>17983834
the franks invented france, the french need to come to terms with the fact that they can only function properly when ruled by their germanic founders

>>17983838
Pau is in the shitter because of him, the only based thing he's ever done was slapping that nafri pickpocketer kid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2rWyvZ9Eg

>>17983948
christ what the fuck is that crowd? and that was 2002? nafris have destroyed france completely

>>17983662
Genetically there are two basic admixture clines; Basque-like and North African-like, as well as two less significant ones, those being Central-East Mediterranean-like and Central/Northen European-like.
Basque-like element is strongest in the Basque regions and surroundings as well as much of Castille and some parts of Catalonia and Valencia. North African-like in the West (and even more so in the Canary islands) - is virtually absent near the Pyrenees and in the Balearic islands. Central-East Mediterranean is strongest in Balearics and to a lesser extent the Eastern/Northeastern coast and most of the south. Central-Northern European is strongest in the Northwest and some parts of the Northeast near the border with France

>>17984047
>and North African-like
Never happened unless you are talking indigenous European or ancient neolithic genetics.

There has never been anything related with any northafrican culture in Iberia ever. Zero. Zero archaeological sites, zero material culture, zero chronicles or historians talking about northafricans populating Iberia, zero toponyms. ZERO. So, with this you can make sure that it is not "north-african like" but maybe indigenous ancient European aborigin genetics (with less Steppe or indoeuropean).

>>17983862
i'm employed and i don't live in my mom's basement, don't judge a book by its cover friend
>>17984047
nobody in spain is 5% nafris

>>17984126
is more than 5% nafri*

>>17984118
>There has never been anything related with any northafrican culture in Iberia ever. Zero. Zero archaeological sites, zero material culture, zero chronicles or historians talking about northafricans populating Iberia, zero toponyms. ZERO
we also don't have levantine material culture in italy but they were swarmed by middle easterners
it's because both things happened during the roman empire when everyone was culturally roman

>>17984118
no, look here

>>17984153

95% of those samples are from Andalucia or the East of Spain yet the supossedly highest ""northafrican"" in Iberia is in the Northwest of Spain (Galicia) where there were zero punics, carthaginensis, nafris, or muslims EVER. It is clear that the ""northafrican"" that Iberians get is fake. It is just probably ancient iberian neolithic that crossed to Northafrica and now it is labeled as "northafrican".


"NorthAfrican Punic"?? I am sure it is not punic but just something "Neolithic" that DNA companies can´t differenciate from other indigenous Neolithic components.

Why? Because Punics were an extremely low number of people in the SouthEast of Iberia yet it seems with all those samples that Punics were all over Iberia (even in the west) which seems ridiculous.

Also there is a Vandal from Blanes there which score 95% NorthEuropean.........and 5% NorthAfrican Punic with zero % Spanish. So he did not mix with native Iberians yet he scores a 5% "Northafrican Punic"?? How would that be possible? It looks ridiculous.


>>17984146
But Iberia was not swarmed by middle easterns nor northafricans ever. Not in massive numbers because studies says that ALL Iberians (north, west, east, south) score """northafrican"" even in extremely isolated rural areas in Cantabria or Galicia. For a country so big as Spain....the number of middle easterns or northafricans should have been massive just to change the genetics of such a disperse country like Spain... Or it is all fake and it is just neolithic iberian dna that crossed to northafrica.

Again, there are zero archaeological evidences, material culture, chronicles speaking about the presence of middle easterns or northafricans in Iberia. Even the phoenicians (a tiny number) in SE Spain are recorded in history yet the massive number of ""northafricans"" that supossedly changed massively the genetics of Iberia, never got recorded.

>>17984339
>>17984339
>95% of those samples are from Andalucia or the East of Spain yet the supossedly highest ""northafrican"" in Iberia is in the Northwest of Spain (Galicia) where there were zero punics, carthaginensis, nafris, or muslims EVER. It is clear that the ""northafrican"" that Iberians get is fake. It is just probably ancient iberian neolithic that crossed to Northafrica and now it is labeled as "northafrican".
because it's from roman era migrants that identified as roman and so didn't leave any material culture behind
it's not ancient iberian, that would have been included in "spain_IA" obviously, north african ancestry is dramatically different from spanish iron age ancestry, you cannot confuse one for the other
>"NorthAfrican Punic"?? I am sure it is not punic but just something "Neolithic" that DNA companies can´t differenciate from other indigenous Neolithic components.
no, it's 100% northwest african outlier samples from the punic period, they're meant to represent north african ancestry, not punic ancestry
>But Iberia was not swarmed by middle easterns nor northafricans ever. Not in massive numbers because studies says that ALL Iberians (north, west, east, south) score """northafrican"" even in extremely isolated rural areas in Cantabria or Galicia. For a country so big as Spain....the number of middle easterns or northafricans should have been massive just to change the genetics of such a disperse country like Spain... Or it is all fake and it is just neolithic iberian dna that crossed to northafrica.
they were massive numbers, the reconquista deleted a lot of that ancestry
>Again, there are zero archaeological evidences, material culture
again, it happened in the roman period, they were culturally roman

>>17984339
the genetic shift definitely happened tho

>>17984385
So...they use a few samples (how many, 4-5??) in a certain small village named Villaricos in SE Spain....and with that they can conclude that ALL of Iberia (north, west, east and south) can have ""northafrican punic"" just because the samples from Villaricos are "northafrican"??

And what about the 30-40% European DNA that pure northafrican berebers have?? Even today, north-moroccoans get 20-30% Iberian DNA.

Pure berebers have a 30% of European Y haplogroups.

Even WHG from Iberia crossed to Northafrica in ancient times, so it is obvious that those small samples from Villaricos had European genetics but they are labeled as 100% northafrican and with this all Iberians score ""northafrican""??

It is ridiculous. It is like if I go to a jewish cemetery in London, I take samples and I label all their genomes as "Jewish-Middle Eastern" (without considering if they already have a 50% anglo genetics). Then I take samples from English people (from all areas) and compare their genomas with those samples from the jewish cemetery and say that all English are part Jewish-MIddle Eastern because I used the proxy of the jewish cemetery to sample "middle eastern ancestry".

It sounds ridiculous too. The same with the "Northafrican Punic" or "northafrican" in Iberia.

And even worst is about the supossedly massive numbers of northafrican slaves that were brought during the Roman Empire to Iberia. First, there are no chronicles talking about this except saying some ambiguous ideas that some slaves were brought. And second, the Romans were a tiny 2-3% of the total Iberian population and were confined to Roman settlements. So if the romans hardly modified a 2-3 % of the genetics of Iberia....how can their slaves change them in all areas of Iberia?? It also sounds ridiculous.

Northing makes sense about the supossed "northafrican" in Iberia.

Incorrect. It sounds like you're pushing the idea that Spaniards are “Atlantic” rather than Mediterranean, which is partly true for Asturias, but not for Catalonia.

>>17984425
>So...they use a few samples (how many, 4-5??) in a certain small village named Villaricos in SE Spain....and with that they can conclude that ALL of Iberia (north, west, east and south) can have ""northafrican punic"" just because the samples from Villaricos are "northafrican"??
they are a proxy for north african ancestry, even one is enough, they are genetically closer to literal saharawis, it doesn't matter how many of them you use, roman era iberians show that type of ancestry, they're using 3 samples specifically from ringbauer, 2 from kerkouane and 1 from villaricos, picrel
>Pure berebers have a 30% of European Y haplogroups.
pure "berebers" live in southern morocco and are brown as fuck and do not have "30% of European Y haplogroups"
>so it is obvious that those small samples from Villaricos had European genetics but they are labeled as 100% northafrican and with this all Iberians score ""northafrican""??
no, they aren't, they're not european, they're obvious migrants from north africa
>And even worst is about the supossedly massive numbers of northafrican slaves that were brought during the Roman Empire to Iberia. First, there are no chronicles talking about this except saying some ambiguous ideas that some slaves were brought. And second, the Romans were a tiny 2-3% of the total Iberian population and were confined to Roman settlements. So if the romans hardly modified a 2-3 % of the genetics of Iberia....how can their slaves change them in all areas of Iberia?? It also sounds ridiculous.
they weren't slaves exclusively, they didn't leave any different material culture because both iberians and north africans were citizens of the roman empire
>Northing makes sense about the supossed "northafrican" in Iberia.
everything makes sense

>>17984425
>It is ridiculous. It is like if I go to a jewish cemetery in London, I take samples and I label all their genomes as "Jewish-Middle Eastern" (without considering if they already have a 50% anglo genetics). Then I take samples from English people (from all areas) and compare their genomas with those samples from the jewish cemetery and say that all English are part Jewish-MIddle Eastern because I used the proxy of the jewish cemetery to sample "middle eastern ancestry".
here's the thing, if you try to model englishmen with jewish ancestry vs AngloSaxon/InsularCelt/ContinentalCelt, the english will come out as 100% AngloSaxon/InsularCelt/ContinentalCelt and 0% jewish, you can find one billion jewish samples in ancient england, it wouldn't change the fact that modern englishmen don't have this ancestry
if you try to model modern iberians with middle eastern and north african ancestry vs IronAgeIberian/MigrationEraGermanic/ContinentalCeltic you will see that both middle eastern and north african ancestries are present in iberia in small amounts
these roman era iberians show an even higher percentage of north african and middle eastern ancestries (this is why we know that the reconquista diminished this ancestry)

>brown mongrels making up fan fictions to explain away their non-white phenotype and genetics
It wasn't Neolithic. You were raped by Phoenicians, they came to Iron Age Iberia, subjugating and raping the blond haired blue eyed aborigenal Celts creating the modern swarthy mixed race who now dwell there. It shows on haplogroups and your pigmentation.

>>17984607
Meds, take them.

>>17984607
>It wasn't Neolithic.
indeed
>You were raped by Phoenicians
phoenicians are irrelevant, it was roman era migrations
>the blond haired blue eyed aborigenal Celts
native IA iberians looked at best like modern basque

>>17984632
>it was roman era migrations
If this was the case, they would've become whiter instead of browner and would carry different haplogroups as Romans were R1b and Nordic.

Distance to: ITA_Etruscan_Campiglia
0.06628468 Swedish
0.09135007 Italian_Apulia
0.11161016 Moroccan_Tetouan
0.15684493 Lebanese_Muslim


>native IA iberians looked at best like modern basque
They were Nordic. Black hair, brown eyes and brown skin are foreign Semitic traits, it's not indigenous to Europe. Only mixed have them.

Distance to: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1
0.04531389 Swedish
0.07952927 Spanish_Andalucia
0.13958469 Moroccan_Tetouan
0.18364001 Lebanese_Muslim

>>17984632
>it was roman era migrations
If this was the case, they would've become whiter instead of browner and would carry different haplogroups as Romans were R1b and Nordic.

Distance to: ITA_Etruscan_Campiglia
0.06628468 Swedish
0.09135007 Italian_Apulia
0.11161016 Moroccan_Tetouan
0.15684493 Lebanese_Muslim


>native IA iberians looked at best like modern basque
They were Nordic. Black hair, brown eyes and brown skin are foreign Semitic traits, it's not indigenous to Europe, only mixed race have them.

Distance to: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1
0.04531389 Swedish
0.07952927 Spanish_Andalucia
0.13958469 Moroccan_Tetouan
0.18364001 Lebanese_Muslim

>>17984647
>If this was the case, they would've become whiter instead of browner
migrations from roman citizens from the MENA, that were brown, so the browning makes perfect sense
>They were Nordic. Black hair, brown eyes and brown skin are foreign Semitic traits, it's not indigenous to Europe, only mixed race have them.
you should try using actual IA iberians and not northern european outliers in greek colonies

Distance to: Spain_IA_Celt
0.01942664 Basque_Araba
0.02219891 Basque_French
0.02305794 French_Chalosse
0.02435117 Basque_Biscay
0.02461377 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.02462480 French_Bearn
0.02485944 Basque_Baztan
0.02557143 Basque_Roncal
0.02567742 Basque_Lower_Navarre
0.02589738 Basque_Soule

Distance to: Spain_IA
0.01993834 Basque_Navarre_North
0.02106924 Basque_Gipuzkoa
0.02144824 Basque_Spanish
0.02228450 Basque_Roncal
0.02262428 Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest
0.02342913 Basque_Biscay
0.02361213 Basque_Navarre_Center
0.02364293 French_Bigorre
0.02373489 Basque_Soule
0.02377219 Basque_Lower_Navarre

>>17983217 (OP)
Exactly Spanish are Visigothic Celto-Germanic

>>17984652
>Distance to: Spain_IA_Celt
>Distance to: Spain_IA
These are mixed race samples with heavy dose of Phoenician blood. This is what pure Iberians looked like >>17984647.

Diodorus Siculus
>The Celts are tall of body, with rippling muscles, and white of skin, and their hair is blond, and not only naturally so, but they make it their practice to increase the distinguishing color by which nature has given it.

Ammianus Marcellinus
>Almost all Celts are tall and fair-skinned, with reddish hair. Their savage eyes make them fearful objects; they are eager to quarrel and excessively truculent. When, in the course of a dispute, any of them calls in his wife, a creature with gleaming blue eyes

>>17984657
>These are mixed race samples with heavy dose of Phoenician blood
incorrect

it's high time you stopped trolling

>>17984665
All that I've said is correct. The Iberians back then were Celts, with blond hair, blue eyes, and a Nordic genetic profile, as this sample shows >>17984647.

>>17984670
You’re both annoying faggots

Africa begins at the Pyrenees

>>17984676
It's the same extremely mentally ill guy posting the same schizo charts back and forth, he thinks that will make Italians and Spaniards fight

South Italians:
>we are Greek Chads and don't care about Italic mudhutters
Iberians:
>WE WUZ REPUBLIKANGZ
>WE WUZ CELTS
>NOT A SINGLE DROP OF MOOR BLOOD
What causes this phenomenon?

>>17985204
You:
>i'm a french larper that trolls southern europeans
what causes this phenomenon

>>17985204
South Italians do care about Italic heritage, particularly Samnites. I don’t know where you got this assumption from.

Greekjeet is mad

>>17985204
Retarded flemish nigger, stop baiting
>Samnites
Depends on the area, vast majority of southrons only cares about greeks

>>17985204
What kind of ridiculous cope is this that I keep seeing? The natives of Crimea were the Tauri who were leftovers of the Ukrainian Indo-European tribes. Of course Greek settlers in their settlements look like Meds. But the Tauri kept living there even after they were gone and assimilated into the Scythians and Sarmatians.

>>17986120
Survive The Tranny lost

>>17984460
So how do you explain those samples from here:
https://i.4cdn.org/his/1757355240155299.png

where several with very high NorthEuropean ancestry (80-92%) and with ZERO Spain IA ancestry, still score 5-10% Punic??

There are several. For example one of the last ones with 96.5% NorthEuro, 0% Spain IA, and 3.5% NorthAfrican Punic.

Did they have Punics in Tarragona and in Blanes and they mixed with pure NorthEuro types?? If they only get 3.5% Punic this means that it is not their father but a remote ancestor (3-4 generation back). So, how can someone with 96.5% NorthEuro DNA being his ancestors living in Spain for 3-4 generations they still don´t have "Spain´s DNA" but they get Punic??
If they had ZERO Spain IA, how did they get 5-10% Punic?