Thread 17988904

One is in North America - 3000 years ago.

The other is in Iraq. - 5000 years ago.

According to academics its due to

>>Independent invention refers to the simultaneous or near-simultaneous creation of the same idea, discovery, or technology by two or more individuals or groups who are unaware of each other's work.

So there is no evidence of any common source or contact from two ancient cultures across the world from each other having winged serpents in the shape of swastikas??!

heres the north american.

>>17988904 (OP)
But then we have to accept the implications of that type of civilization disappearing. Too scary.

>>17988911
Am I allowed to jump the shark ITT?

They use the exact same symbols to construct the scene but they seem to represent the same sort of ritual scene

>>17988916
Sure. I am not a regular poster here so I dont know what common discussions entail. Just posting my own observations and disgust at AI / Academic obfuscation

>>17988933
Oh thank goodness

So the reason there's obfuscation is because some people think they're punching knot-Cs by denying that western civilization could ever have emerged previously.

>>17988936
Peru is clearly the key to this mystery. Theres hundreds of thousands of structures there that are just melting away into the dust and the people who care are amateur archeologists and farmers trying to get land.

>>17988946
You're absolutely correct and I'm excited that you've picked up on that. It's like every week now we hear about some new find over there. They often attribute them to pre-Incans, but I think it's more likely that Incans are just that old.

>>17988952
interesting. Im not that well read in peruvian historical finds. However there are clearly gorgons painted on ancient temple walls down there.

I personally think its being hidden because the priestly/warrior/intelligent class that emerged over the millennia from selective breeding used this symbolism in daily life, religious life, and dictatorial pursuits.

Mesopotamian/Egyptian people farmers who needed to elevate themselves to the status of God to stay on top of unavoidable birth and death.

If we can figure out how its used, we know its history, if we know its history, we know who was involved, and if we know who was involved wed likely find out its the same elites today making us symbolically illiterate.

>>17988904 (OP)
>One is in North America - 3000 years ago.
ANE's eastern cousins migrating to America. mal'ta is the origin of the earliest ancestors and in a sense of IE culture, rites etc. (if not necessarily language). amerindians are in a sense aryans. just look at their bone structure.

>The other is in Iraq. - 5000 years ago.
IE invaders, teachers, traders. They later invented the war chariot, which was used extensively and could only be taught by IE military advisors which see in the Mitanni. The Mitanni also worshipped IE gods. the Hittites - whatever originary relation you assign to them - spoke an IE language and held IE symbols of power. we see swastikas in their art.
the IE were also very proficient traders. traders AND raiders.
this very simple but evocative symbol of a martial people which had already begun influencing the near east in a multitude of ways - such as the teaching of war chariotry - would've sprung up again.
the 5000 years doesn't line up that nicely with specifically the Indo aryan invasion but that wouldn't have been the first contact between near eastern and IE people. the design language and idiography is too strong here for it to not be in some form IE related. swastika and meander and fish. hardly mesopotamian! remember the archaians would've also traded and raided.

>>17988964
>However there are clearly gorgons painted on ancient temple walls down there
WHAT. Do you happen to have that saved?

>>17988975
https://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends-europe/ancient-greek-legend-seems-describe-place-peru-early-contact-003153

>>17988975
Also here is a dude who is going around Peru documenting stuff and check the timestamp of this video.

https://youtu.be/SdBezlNHA0U?t=486

>>17988995
Perfect! I'm glad you're here. This is awesome.

>>17988973
IE's had the same system of Kingship that you see all the way into the Bible.

Thats kind of where I have started this journey from. I think Genesis is a key book that parallels other IE journeys.

Theres first a kind of base IE explorer / tribe that is given a "divine inheritance" aka real estate. This was not a little subplot, but a cardinal direction, a continent.

Then you have the next caste come in, this is the military and religious caste, they move in to start organizing various institutions for control and growth.

Finally the kings abandon the previous lands and enter the new areas via marraige into the new minor elites or via strong arm subjugation.

>>17989023
Also in reference to the real estate terminology and rulership:

The Inca referred to their empire as Tawantinsuyu,[14] "the suyu of four [parts]". In Quechua, tawa is four and – ntin is a suffix naming a group, so that a tawantin is a quartet, a group of four things taken together, in this case the four suyu ("regions" or "provinces") whose corners met at the capital. The four suyu were: Chinchaysuyu (north), Antisuyu (east; the Amazon jungle), Qullasuyu (south) and Kuntisuyu (west).
seems like a pretty broad geographical kingdom. Ok sons, you can have Antisuyu, and you go to Kuntisuyu.

>>17989030

The reason nobody in Peru today who is Inca adjacent cares about Peruvian architecture is because they are simply the lower caste that remained after some sort of post collapse migration.

They took with them any ability to formally rule and organize at scale. The lower castes that remained were too incompetent to do anything other than what they had previously given permission to do by their elites which was various forms of subsistence farming on sub plots.

The upper IE castes were aggressively righteous in their demand to rule and so they did.

I imagine any society that existed after the exit of its kingly class would still trade/get taxed from afar.

Similar to how the British extract from India (former IE empire), or USA extracts from Europe, Greeks and Romans extracted Africa and the Middle East.

Looking at this map of a short period of IE migration.

At the forefront of the migratory pattern you have the

Scythian Nomads (Pioneers/Explorers)
Scythian Agriculturalists (Farmers)
Scythian Husbandmen (Breeders / Sons of minor elites who were took wifes of foreign groups and created new houses or continued an old house)

Then you have the Royal Scythians. Nicely positioned to safely exploit the wealth and peace created by first groups.

Lastly in the rear you have the "Free Scythians". Aka the old elites from the previous kingship. They arent pioneers or explorers, so they werent needed early on, but as the empire grows, they were needed to fill in occupations that were being created.

The Free Scythians gave the Royals the ability to rule, and likely imposed themselves on the other early non royal society in a way that disintegrated the martial/religious values that al;lowed it to take hold.

I guess humans just naturally like swastikas.

>>17988936
Haplogroup R&Q originated in tandem from the Baikal area, and both haplogroups moved into Europe westwards and Americas eastwards.
The European native Q almost got washed out but still exists, whereas the American R got washed out, and is the haplogroup that obtained the genetic conehead inbreeding trait after the younger dryas caused a bottle neck and founder effect among the survivors in peru.
When parts of this culture moved west into the Maghreb, it became the Osiris cult and spawned the Atlas/Atlantis myth.
Geneaologists intentionally obfuscate the fact that R&Q were present in both Americas and Europe, because the nitpicky details easily point towards an eastern and western branch of BOTH, as opposed to a clean split between R&Q.
tldr;
R&Q emerged BEFORE the migration into americas and Europe, but stayed together in both populations until one washed out the other in respective continents.

>>17989777
>When parts of this culture moved west into the Maghreb
And this ain't a typo,- the coneheads are the ones depicted in the moai statues with RED stones/"hats" depicting their long redheaded topknots. They were the first oceanfarers that mapped the globe, which is why the Vulture Pillar in Göbekli Tepe is able to depict the north atlantic through representative symbolism.

>>17988904 (OP)
>another poorly disguised jewish narrative thread
y a w n