Thread 18002118

The "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound" question is so fucking stupid. Do these people have the object permanence of a baby? Why would it not make a sound just because nobody hears it?

>>18002118 (OP)
It has nothing to do with that, its even more stupid, its about semantics

>>18002118 (OP)
nobody on this site mentioned object permanence until about a week ago, now it's mentioned on /his/ and /int/ and /pol/ every five minutes
stop using your new favourite phrase to try to impress people, as your actual ideas are retarded as fuck

>>18002131
What the hell are you talking about

>>18002118 (OP)
Can it really be called a sound if no one heard it?

>>18002118 (OP)
>object permanence of a baby
OP learned those words within the last 48 hours.

>>18002118 (OP)
>object permanence
Op learned that term from today's spam.

Anyway, it isn't really sound if nobody perceives it because human reality is shaped by human perception. Read german idealism.

>>18002151
The same culture that programmed you to respond with trained phrases like "meds now" has programmed you to mention "object permanence". You probably thought you in control the first time because it was an explicit meme. You havent realized it yet this time but you read the new phrase several times before posting.

>>18002118 (OP)
>>18002128
>HAY WHAY DID THEM GREEKS JUST ASSOOOOOM THERE WERE GODS ON MOUNT OLYMPUS COULDNT THEY JUST CLIM IT??? LMAO OR WHATEVER
The more likely explanation is that its part of a discussion you havent been participating in.

>sentience
>eldritch horrors
>make it make sense
>literally
>object permanence
Favorite phrases of people who love science and watch The Young Turks.

I clearly have not been browsing this forsaken board enough to know whether something happened or if this is just a schizo

>>18002118 (OP)
It's a philosophical question anon

>>18002285
And that's why philosophy isn't a science lol.

>>18003199
Who ever said it was?

>>18002284
I think I tree fell but noone was around to hear it

>>18002118 (OP)
It's a dumb "haha you cannot reasonably find out the answer" to imply that reality is observation based instead of 1 physical reality that we all reside in. Dumb post-modern faggotry.

>>18002131
>>18002190
>>18002249
>>18002266
>>18002273
meds now

prove that it makes a sound OP
and while you’re at it, prove to me that you still exist when you leave the room

That stupid fucking gotcha must have predated sound files and sound systems.

>>18002118 (OP)
Because sound is how the mammalian brain perceive vibrations. In other words sound only exists if there is a subject that can detect the vibrations and interpret them into sound. That is to say ”sound” only exists in the brain.

>>18003446
Not mammalian but uniquely human. Sound is a subjective experience. Ofcourse when a tree falls it generates sound waves but only a human mind can perceive it as 'rumble' or 'crackling' or 'thud'. The point of this thought experiment is that humans do not experience external world directly, but only through the filter of subjective reality. In a way, we never perceive anything.

>>18003461
Not very scientifc to say it’s uniquely human. Mammals perceive vibrations as sound in a similar way as humans do.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_mammalian_auditory_ossicles

>>18002131
Just because you just learned what object permanence is doesn't mean the rest of us also just learned what it was. You're late to the party

>>18002131
baader-meinhof

Sound could be argued to require a perceiver

>>18002118 (OP)
We have hard scientific evidence that a tree falling in the forest does in fact make a sound as we define sound.

Any further discussion is just solipsism that devolves into Descartes and Boltzmann Brains.

>>18002128
This. It relies on the audience being sub 60 IQ niggers who can't differentiate between HEARING and SOUND WAVES. As if they wouldn't die under an avalanche just because they didn't hear what caused it.

>>18002118 (OP)
No moron the whole point is that its a question with no truly definitive answer to show you the world isn’t black n white

>>18004832
Nice Dunning-Kruger retard.

>>18005099
There is a definite answer. Sound is the brains intepretation of vibration. It doesn’t exist outside the brain.

>>18002118 (OP)
It's stupid on the surface but profound when you actually try to be meticulous. Here's what's going on in the head of an average person when formulating an answer
>there is an objective world out there and a subjective world in my head
>sound is a word in my head for a vibration out in the objective world
>I think the objective world behaves the same regardless of my presence
>>>>Conclusion: a falling tree make a sound regardless of an audience

Each of the points before the conclusion is assumed more or less as a matter of dogma. The subject-object separation and the correspondence theory of truth are like the immaculate conception and the transforming of wine into the blood of Christ back in medieval times - generally assumed to be the case but nobody can exactly tell you why, they can only tell you that believing the premises yielded satisfying results.
The tree question isn't there to point out that you're wrong to believe these things, just that these premises went unreflected and that there is a way of thinking about phenomena, such as sound, in a more participatory way rather than in a strict subjective-objective divide. But then again, you could just as well have asked "does it smell when a stone farts in space?"

>>18005392
Since a fart requires an anus, and rocks by definition are non-living minerals the fart can’t exist.

>>18005407
Where does it say an anus has to be living?

>>18005392
That's on way of looking at it, but you can take it a step further: Is anything you don't see even real? If you see a tree standing, and the next day, it's fallen over, how do you actually KNOW that it fell over (and, allegedly, made a sound), and didn't just phase out of existence, to be replaced by an exact copy that's been turned 90°?
How can mirrors be real if your eyes are not?

>>18005411
I'm not sure the question is supposed to push you that far, but I suppose any inspection of premises is good as long as it yields understanding or memes.

>>18005410
Because only living things/organisms have an anus, by definition, the space rock can’t fart because rocks are just minerals.
>>18005411
Your premise states that the tree has fallen over thus it ”fell over”.

If a tree farts in a forest, does outer space exist?

>>18004112
You aren't witty.

>>18003219
>Who ever said it was?
fuck your gaslighting attempts.