Thread 18004281

>none of the jurors doubted that Fish was insane, but ultimately, as one later explained, they felt he should be executed anyway
>They found him to be sane and guilty, and the judge sentenced the defendant to death by electrocution
>His last words were reportedly, "I don't even know why I'm here."
How can the system deal with dishonest and rogue juries like this? This man was mentally unfit, everyone knew it, and they still executed him. A miscarriage of justice.

>>18004281 (OP)
Juries represent the will of the people far more directly than any law

>>18004281 (OP)
He was a real jerk and deserved to die whether he was insane or not

>>18004591
OJ is not guilty I guess. That's the will of the people :-)

>>18004609
Honestly his letters kinda remind me of 4chan posts

>>18004700
Yeah unfortunately. Sucks to suck

The insanity defense isn't what it used to be without the lobotomy, stuffing them full of lithium and locking them up chained to their bed for the rest of their lives. It's just a cozier prison now.

>>18004281 (OP)
Cry more libtard cuck.

>>18004700
Prosecution should have made a better argument than a fucking GLOVE then.

some would say Fish was screwy because his father was 70 when he had him, but he seemed to be of normal intelligence and able to have a family and hold down a job as well as plan and commit his crimes so the retardation or insanity defense doesn't work

>>18005601
>It's just a cozier prison now.

Here's the problem with that. They're frequently put the dangerously insane in with the harmlessly insane and hopelessly dimwitted.

Which creates situations even more rife for abuse than an actual prison.


That cook guy on youtube "Binging with Babish" was extremely depressed with his failing relationship with his gf, he was overworked, and his channel was beginning to fail. He went to the local psych ward in his hospital....

Then they put him in the ward with a big rapist nigger that made him his girlfriend and resized his butthole.

Naturally that didn't help much with his depression.


Sometimes mental hospitals and psych wards don't really have the resources to have many different secure wings for many different kinds of offenders. It creates situations where a dangerous offender might be in the same room with a bunch of 60 IQ retards. Then you're gonna have problems.

>>18004281 (OP)

If an animal was "insane" would you spare it? An alligator or tiger that killed 100 people. "Oh it's okay he was insane".

No clear evidence of injustice existed though

>>18004281 (OP)
>died 1936
That's the golden age of American eugenics. They killed him because he was insane.

>>18005678
I don't know if you need to be told this anon, but wild animals aren't treated like criminals. Yes, deadly wild animals are frequently "spared" the "death penalty" for killing humans. Especially in cases where the human intruded on the animal's natural habitat

>>18004281 (OP)
Happens with all serial killers. They are obviously fucked up in the head but I dont of any who were not found "sane."

>>18004281 (OP)
>nooo don't kill an insane child rapist cannibal he's just insane!!!
Lmao what
You should be executed too if that's how you think

>>18006545
>Yes, deadly wild animals are frequently "spared" the "death penalty" for killing humans
No, they aren't. They're specifically hunted down and killed by wildlife services or law enforcement.

>>18006575
Only animals that intrude human settlements ("nuisance alligators") and/or animals that cause damage to livestock and are considered pests. An alligator in a remote swamp who kills a dumbfuck who stepped in its habitat is not going to get "hunted down" and "brought to justice"

>>18006404
>>18006574
Funny, the prosecution had to call in "experts" to assert that his obvious mental illness is normal actually in order to claim that he's sane.
>Under cross-examination, Dempsey asked if coprophilia, urophilia, and pedophilia indicated a sane or insane person. Gregory replied that such a person was not "mentally sick" and that these were common perversions that were "socially perfectly alright" and that Fish was "no different from millions of other people", some very prominent and successful, who had the "very same" perversions
>When asked whether Fish's causing himself pain indicated a mental condition, Lichtenstein replied, "That is not masochism", as he was only "punishing himself to get sexual gratification"
>The next witness, Charles Lambert, testified that coprophilia was a common practice and that religious cannibalism may be psychopathic but "was a matter of taste" and not evidence of a psychosis
These were all witnesses that the *prosecution* called in.

>>18006589
His whole family were defects.

>>18006605
Every single person involved in the trial knew the man was insane, but the prosecution still had to come up with some token testimony to theatrically "persuade" the jury, who were also perfectly aware that Fish is insane. So you end up with an expert claiming that indulgence with feces urine and children is socially acceptable behavior.

>>18004700
More like "OJ probably did it, but the cops and prosecutors fucked up and therefore there's reasonable doubt"

What good does it do to keep such a person alive?
Let’s suppose back then they could have given him olanzapine and put him in cognitive behavioral therapy to teach him to better control his impulses. Given his antisocial and sadistic personality traits he would still remain extremely dangerous, particularly given his lengthy history of violence and the fact that the violence itself was intrinsically rewarding to him. Sure you could zombify him with drugs and he could pretend to learn coping strategies. But even in prison his sadistic tendencies and ‘all the time in the world’ would probably have led to him killing or maiming a guard at some point. This type will befriend a guard or orderly and then kill them for fun.

For men like this, it’s best to execute them. You could put them in solitary like ADX Florence but that seems worse than death.

Really any mass murder with severe malignant personality disorders, or schizophrenia where they constantly refuse or forget medication, should be executed or put in solitary.

The same applies to someone like Typhoid Mary, who should have been executed in my opinion. If she simply had stopped working as a cook, then her typhoid wouldn’t have been a notable infection risk. But she chose to work as a cook in a hospital after her first quarantine. I think it would have been morally acceptable for her to be executed after the second outbreak she caused.

You’re picturing these people like Lennie from Of Mice and Men. But what if I told you there are murderers with IQs of 65 with antisocial personality disorder who are dosed to the gills with antipsychotic but still require double staffing 16 hours a day and require five man restraints several times a week because they are brutalizing other patients/staff at a state hospital? And that it costs literally a million dollars a year to keep them in the state hospital? Again, what good does it do to keep this tiny percentage of nutcases alive?

>>18006685
Always remember - the purpose of a system is what it does. With that in mind, we must concluded the justice system as it is today is pro-criminal

>>18006589
Juries are easily swayed by disgust.

>>18004281 (OP)
I disagree with the whole 'mentally unfit' shtick. a crime is a crime, and society owes us revenge. it's that simple.

>>18004281 (OP)
he raped, murdered and ate at least 3 kids.
also juries literally directly represent the will of the people. they are like that old saying where they are a fucking terrible solution to the justice system but every other solution is way fucking worse

>>18005601
almost no one actually get's off on insanity. to pled insanity you have to prove that the criminal literally does not know the difference between right and wrong. Like chris chan couldn't pled insanity

>>18005675
the violently insane/retarded should really be given MAD. we euthanize violent dogs at the pound

>>18006589
he raped and ate kids. I'd have 12 angry menned him into the chair myself

>allow daughter to accompany Albert to hier "niece's birthday party"
>she goes missing
>random elderly man blamed for the murder by his divorced wife
>spends 100 days in jail before being found not guilty
>during all this time the family and police never suspected Albert

>>18006609
>>18006589
>>18004700
>>18004281 (OP)
>Fish claimed to have sexually assaulted at least 100 boys, most of whom were African-American or had developmental disabilities. He claimed he picked them because he believed the police would not fully investigate attacks against them.
100% sane and guilty. if he intentionally targeted blacks and the retarded because he knew he was less likely to get caught he knew what he was doing was wrong and if he knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway he deserved to be found guilty.

>>18007011
You'd have had a long debate going through the evidence piece by piece, seeing it doesn't actually add up and find him not guilty?

>>18007017
no, I'd argue that he needs the chair and to do it twice to make sure he isn't coming back.
he literally admitted to raping and killing and eating 3 kids and raping 100 more kids

>>18007016
>or

>>18007020
You reckon that's what happens in 12 Angry Men?

>>18007017
>seeing it doesn't actually add up
It did add up though. He came up with like 10 different scenarios which altogether cast doubt on the spic's guilt, but the thing while *individually* they were all reasonable, to actually conclude reasonable doubt each and every one of them had to occur *at once*, which is unreasonable in itself. The spic was guilty.

>>18007016
>because he knew he was less likely to get caught he knew what he was doing was wrong
Not really, it just shows he knew what he was doing was not allowed by society. Psychopaths don't know the difference between right and wrong even if they are calculated

>>18007051
>which is unreasonable in itself

>>18004281 (OP)
>This man was mentally unfit
That's why the jury was based for killing him. Mental invalids only suffer themselves.
>>18004700
OJ killed a coal burner and a rich jew. I don't know why chuds pretend to care about this.

>>18007016
>developmental disabilities
I've always wanted to mash a potato. Is this always illegal to do?

>>18007063
One of those rich Jews working as a waiter, huh?

>>18007062
Yes, do you know how probabilities work? Independently a scenario can be very reasonable, but when you need 10 different scenarios to all be true *simultaneously*, the probability drops significantly.
Guilty.

>>18007063
>Iryna Zarutska had a BLM banner, stop talking her goyim

>>18007037
then reverse 12 angry men, tranny
>>18007059
if he is aware of the consequences for his actions and does them anyway and attempts to conceal them to avoid the consequences then he is competent

>>18007073
>we have to save Western liberal women from what they voted for
Nope. Lol.

>>18007075
>makes mistake
>has mistake pointed out
>embarrassment manifests by instantly thinking about trannies

>>18007077
We both know what I meant by 12 angry men, that I would hold the jury hostage until they agreed to my argument like jewish guy does in 12 angry men when he holds everyone hostage until the declare the mexican who killed his dad innocent

Why is insanity plea even a thing?
>uhhh that person is kurazy therefore crime doesnt count
huh?

>>18007083
liberals. if anything it should be the opposite
>he did it because he's a violent retard
>here is your express lane fast pass to the chair

>>18007082
Interestingly 12 Angry Men actually addresses that by having a racist juror being the only holdout in the end. So they gaslight him about his own personal life being miserable as the reason for him being racist lol. That film is almost as bad as To Kill a Mockingbird

>>18007083
You're retarded. Pleading insanity doesn't get you a slap on the hand. You still end up in prison except now you've got even less rights than the average nigger in general population because you can't be trusted to keep a routine or not kill yourself.

>>18007093
Except as >>18005675 explained, ever since the asylums were shut down and defunded, violent psychos are being put alongside harmless retards who end up being their next victims.

>>18007100
Institutions for the criminally insane aren't the same as asylums where we toss retards who can't tie their shoes. If the nigger had been found insane by a court of law after the murder, then he wouldn't have been left back on the street.

>>18007109
Violent mentally ill niggers are routinely being let back out on the street. One was let back 14 times before stabbing a Ukrainian refugee to death recently

>>18007127
>>18007109
>>18007100
>>18007093
Blue states don't even convict criminals or do anything to guilty violent retards. like a dozen people accounted for half of all yearly arrests on the subway. there was that black guy who killed that white girl in the news and he had 14 prior violent crime arrests and was let out. in nyc a black guy (who had a long rap sheet) force fed a woman human shit on the subway after she rejected him, then they let him out of jail on cashless bond, he then hate crimed a jew the same fucking day, they let him out for a second time the same day then like a month later he got arrested for threatening some worker with a dumbbell and then must have done something in jail because another inmate who goes by the name "burn" maimed him with boiling water, thus solving the problem NYC refused to solve.

>>18007127
>>18007109
>>18007100
>>18007093
oh, and another example would be that teacher in florida who got violently beaten by that massive retarded ape for taking his nintendo switch was getting shamed and harassed for pressing charges on that monster after he beat the shit out of her

>>18007016
>He killed hundreds of niggers
Based. Would instantly support his innocence.
Look at where "morality" has gotten the white man. It's all tooth and claw, this nigga understood that like a true Nietzschean overman.

>>18007204
These are only claims he made, and it's about sexual assault, not killing. It is confirmed that he killed and ate a white little girl though before sending a taunting letter to her mother about it.

>>18007234
That was pretty kino.

He's lucky they didn't lynch him.

>>18007261
It was in New York so not likely

>>18004281 (OP)
Whether or not someone is insane shouldn't shield them from the death penalty. If someone kills they more likely than not will kill again. By giving them death it means they will never kill anyone again.

>>18004281 (OP)
Fish definitely knew why he was there. If you know about the case, then it is clear. He used false identities to get to kids and targeted the disadvantaged. On the other hand, he had a wife and children. He 100% understood the difference between right and wrong.

>>18007163
that guy had 14 arrests but only two were for things that could at all be described as violent crimes, and NC is a purple to red state

Insanity should be one more reason to put someone to death, really.

>>18004281 (OP)
>nooooo you have to let the poor child killer live
you're a sick fuck

>>18004609
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBrVPv-wiww

>>18004281 (OP)
He was obviously demon possessed and if you can read his story and not believe in demons you don't know your ass from your elbow

>>18007063
Idc about OJ's victims. Just funny to see the celebrations when he was acquitted.
>>18007073
>>18007076
She actually dindu nuffin. Just a young woman that moved to America a few years ago and had no idea of the unspoken rule: don't sit near blacks.

>>18007204
Pretty sure he was only convicted of killing white people, the little girl he was originally caught for was white
>>18007623
democrat governor, democrat mayor. why was a guy with 14 priors including 2 violent priors allowed out and on the streets?

>>18006589
> coprophilia, urophilia, and pedophilia
> were "socially perfectly alright"
That says a lot about American society.

>>18008146
Because he had already served his time, which wasn't life w/o parole.

>>18008313
he was out on cashless bail because dems are soft on crime and they prefer criminals to humans

>>18008159
It was an open secret at the time why so many adult men were big fans of Shirley Temple.

>>18008345
Saved by the bell constantly put Kelly and Lisa in bathing suits into the early 90s, same with Cristina applegate on married with children. the weird
>she's only 17 and 364 days old
is a super modern thing

it is stilly that insanity was ever a defense and not like an enhancer. like why would you want to keep a violently retarded person alive and let them out? if a criminal is declared insane then they should get the death penalty or spend the rest of their life imprisoned

>>18008330
He was released on his own recognizance for a charge of falsely calling 911 during a psychotic episode. That's very common for misdemeanor charges like that.

>>18008422
The idea is that they would be committed to a psychiatric hospital instead of prison.

>>18008477
he was released on cashless bail. again, the subway shitter got released on cashless bail and the guy who was head of the subway cops in nyc got fired for pointing out like half of all subway arrests are like 20 guys that the dem DAs keep letting out over and over and over. There was some black guy in philly relatively recently who got caught for some crime and he had like 8 prior felony gun convictions and was just like out on cashless bail and had served under a year in jail combined for all the times he was arrested

>>18004700
He literally wasn't guilty. Did you not see the court case? Jury said he was innocent.

>>18007059
What is right or wrong if not what is or is not allowed by the society you're in at that moment?

>>18008618
Of course not. Do you think slavery was right?

Insanity should be an aggravating rather than mitigating factor in criminal proceedings.

>>18008489
Nobody accused of murder with evidence like that and a criminal history including violent offenses is getting out easily on bond.

>>18008843
in NJ you get out on cashless bail for everything other than murder, rape or having a gun with an "illegal feature"

>>18007623
"only 2 violent crimes" kek
And this just strengthens the case to expand three-strikes to apply to more than just "serious" crimes

>>18008914
We've tried 3 strikes laws and they didn't really stop crime but made prisons overcrowded. I can't actually think of any civilized country that hands down life w/o parole for anything other than murder, terrorism, etc and even then it's rare. In the other English speaking countries, usually murder gets life with the possibility of parole after like 20 years.

>>18008422
>>18008670
>Insanity should be an aggravating rather than mitigating factor in criminal proceedings.
Sounds like a bad idea. Nobody would ever get mental help if they knew it might multiply any legal troubles they have down the line. Depression and anxiety can already bar you from gun ownership and look like shit on medical applications for job history.

But i agree that Fish wasn't really legally insane. To qualify you have to legitimately not understand what your situation. The lies he used to conceal himself and his choice of vulnerable victims is classic serial killer shit. Plus it was repeated

>>18009163
It depends. Breivik technically is eligible for parole but it will probably be denied indefinitely... already has been twice

>>18009163
>and they didn't really stop crime
they did. crime dropped by half from the 1980s to early 2000s. the tough on crime stuff worked great
> I can't actually think of any civilized country
the US is the only first world country

>>18009169
>Depression and anxiety can already bar you from gun ownership
only in shit hole states like new york and new jersey, there are no illnesses that are federal disqualifiers
>But i agree that Fish wasn't really legally insane. To qualify you have to
see that's the point though. you can make some legal standard for violent retard and use that as an aggravator because violent retard doesn't need to be coupled with legitimate issues like depression or anxiety that don't lead to violence. Just like how Fish was insane but doesn't meet the current legal definition of insanity

>>18009163
the secret of criminology is that old people commit a negligible amount of crime, it's very much a young man's hobby
might have to make exceptions for like mafiosos ordering hits as old men but your average violent retard will grow out of it, so you can do the twenty year thing and still have negligible reoffending rates

>>18009163
Prisons in the US are not nearly populated as they should be. Do you realize how many violent criminals are repeat offenders?

>>18009176
>you can make some legal standard for violent retard and use that as an aggravator
Feels a bit redundant in a murder case

>>18009174
>he doesn't know
The 1990s crime drop was an international phenomenon. Ignorant Yankee...

>>18009183
a violently retarded man with 14 prior arrests just stabbed a woman to death on a train
>>18009195
the rate was faster in the US than in leafistan or ausfalia

>>18009180
>we imprison more people than anywhere else on Earth and a higher percentage than nearly anywhere
>but it's not enough, it's never enough
>everyone should be either a criminal or a prison guard

>>18009201
Then you should make repeat offences count for more

>>18009180
Not because we're lenient when sentencing murderers. We just don't solve most homicides.

>>18009201
In most cases it ended with a homicide rate about half as high as the peak. It's a pretty consistent pattern.

>>18009202
maybe criminals should stop doing crimes if they don't want to be in jail
>>18009204
yeah like a 3 strike rule with mandatory minimums

>>18009208
we stopped doing the hard on crime shit and crime has gone up, especially in blue cities. tough on crime works, is based and we should do more of it

>>18009202
>>18009207
The US has an inner city black problem and a higher proportion of them than any other developed country. Crime would plummett if you choose a random number between 3 and 7 and choose that as the limit for recidivism.
And before you jump, a recent analysis has shown that sub-saharan crime rates are bogus and don't match when scrutinized alongside obituaries and news articles

>>18009213
Some states have eased prison overcrowding, reformed the juvenile system, and cracked down on prison rape. Sentencing hasn't changed drastically though.

>>18009216
How do you find accurate and comprehensive obituaries for countries where most people live in the middle of nowhere?
And no, we're not the only country with ghettos.

>>18009216
>>18009207
>>18009202
If black american men in their 20s were a country their murder rate would be #2 in the world and would be double #3. White and asian Americans have close to the same murder rate as like france or belgium
>>18009221
there has literally never been prison over crowding, NYs changes to the juvenile system has lead to an increase in crime by minors, prison rape is based and NYC saw a drop in prosecutions by like half when the current DA got elected

>>18009207
>We just don't solve most homicides.
Thank Miranda for that.

>>18009228
Thank understaffed police departments and reluctant witnesses.

>>18009226
>If black american men in their 20s were a country their murder rate would be #2 in the world and would be double #3.
Good thing countries are composed of multiple age brackets and demographics then. A while ago I crunched the numbers for this - white Americans die by homicide at a rate higher than just about every other 1st world country. Maybe Canada and Israel are higher.

>>18009225
https://inquisitivebird.xyz/p/global-crime
No developed country has the proportion the US has, and for this long of a time.

>>18009233
the US is the ONLY first world country and that's due to a combination of hispanics being erroneously labeled white and black on white interracial crime. black men in their teens and 20s commit a lot of crimes in the US and blue cities are trying to do everything in their power to let them keep doing crimes

>>18009236
>paywalled blog
Dishonest retard

>>18009239
Alright, QRD: victimization surveys. Just like how the annual victimization survey in the US is the proof that blacks really do commit disproportaionate crime and aren't selected by police

@18009237
>the US is the ONLY first world country and that's due to a combination of hispanics being erroneously labeled white
Gringo moment

>>18009240
>two of the three worst in Africa were countries founded by freedmen with western backing (and the third has its data hopelessly contaminated by civil war)

>>18009247
The worst in Africa doesn't matter, the average in Africa is what does. They're violent shitholes and their official reported crime rates are a crock of shit.

>>18009250
The radical differences from country to country strongly suggests we're looking at dysfunctional government not dysfunctional genetics, and the high criminality among US blacks should therefore be viewed as a public policy failure

>>18009266
yeah, not enough tough on crime policy

>>18009270
but the US is one of the toughest countries on crime on Earth, so that can't be it

>>18009274
nearly all of the crime is in the soft on crime blue cities. tough on crime works and it works well

>>18009266
Disingenouous, South of the Sahara the picture is pretty clear. Also remember, "africans have high genetic diversity amongst themselves" anyway :-)

>>18009276
Senegal and Mali really don't look that bad, and a lot of African-Americans are of Mande origin
>>18009275
Crime is an urban phenomenon and the US doesn't really have major red cities. The closest thing it has to one, New York City (which elected Bloomberg and Giuliani, and is currently run by a "tough on crime" Democrat who's also a crook lmao), does not stand out for a low crime rate.

>>18009288
>The closest thing it has to one, New York City (which elected Bloomberg and Giuliani, and is currently run by a "tough on crime" Democrat who's also a crook lmao), does not stand out for a low crime rate.
Uhh, yes it fucking does? The only city with a ghetto that still maintains a lower crime rate than the national average. Thank you Rudy btw

>>18009288
>does not stand out for a low crime rate.
what? NYC has an exceptionally low murder rate compared to peer cities

>>18009292
Rudy Giuliani hasn't been mayor for 24 years

>>18009276
Botswana has lower crime than South Africa despite the latter being less black

>>18009275
Population density correlates with crime so of course cities are higher. The South is red and has overall high crime though

>>18009524
And NYC's crime drop didn't start yesterday, genius

>>18009201
>the rate was faster in the US than in leafistan or ausfalia
It had further to fall. Australia has much lower crime than the US despite 20% of Australians being descended from literal criminals and its penal system is not harsher

>>18009532
They've had democratic mayors for a decade (and Bloomberg was pretty centrist)

>>18009538
jfc this guy think history started when Obama became President.
NYC's crime drop started 25-30 years ago and was most pronounced under Rudy.

>>18009250
And how do we get accurate data from somewhere like the DRC?

>>18009275
Which cities are soft on crime? Atlanta, where suspicious gruesome deaths are routine in its jails? Chicago, where torture and disappearances by police were the norm for decades? Los Angeles, whose PD has a long standing reputation for being """"tough"""" and is run by a literal gang?

>>18009530
>The South is red and has overall high crime though
the south has a higher rate of blacks and illegals. almost all the
>south bad
charts are just racist charts about blacks and illegals
>>18009535
which is why it fell less compared to the US, because tough on crime work

>>18009653
yup and philly and nc apparently and SF. SF was so soft on crime the fucking DA got recalled

>>18009851
>can't detect sarcasm

>>18009943
blue cites have cashless bail, blm da, soft on crime bullshit, commie

>>18009846
Another anon pointed out already that proportionally the drop in violent crime was pretty consistent. Looks like the sharpest drop was in Italy, which prosecuted and locked up a lot of mafiosi for an average of 7 years iirc but released some lower level offenders to make room.

>>18008330
I don't care how much dems love niggers. Republicans made it illegal to criticize Israel and that will forever make them even bigger cucks than literal blue haired trannies. They aren't even pretending to be nationalists anymore.

>>18009953
tough on crime works. we've seen crime go up in the past 10+ years due to decriminalizing weed, lax DAs and cashless bail
>>18009954
you aren't American

>>18009949
Cashless bail isn't necessarily soft. Illinois has it but they still hold people pretrial. It can be mandatory. The UK and most countries really are similar. Cash bail is either limited or isn't used.

>>18009971
cashless bail is super soft. the nyc subway shit guy forcefed a woman human shit, go out on cashless bail hours later, hate crimed a jew and then got out a second time the same day on cashless bail.
it doesn't work, it just lets criminals do crime with zero consequences or repercussions

>>18009975
I don't know NY's system or his charges but that's probably because they're misdemeanors.

>>18004700
THE JUICE
WAS LOOSE

Mental illness is an aggravating factor.

>>18004281 (OP)
I don't care about "sanity"
Read his letters he sent to the family
Read what he did to the innocent child
He should have been flayed alive and left on an ant hill