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Thread 18053093

77 posts 32 images /his/
Anonymous No.18053093 [Report] >>18053140 >>18053215 >>18053364 >>18053747 >>18054824 >>18055007 >>18055247 >>18055255 >>18057868 >>18060424 >>18064138 >>18066491 >>18066545
Post people you wholeheartedly disagree with while still respecting them
Anonymous No.18053100 [Report] >>18053135 >>18053185 >>18064284
>people you wholeheartedly disagree with while still respecting them
Honest question, why would I respect someone if I think they misunderstood literally everything?
Anonymous No.18053109 [Report] >>18053180
His rise from obscurity was quite the impressive
Anonymous No.18053135 [Report]
>>18053100
because while men make their own history, they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly found, and transmitted from the past.
Anonymous No.18053140 [Report] >>18053267
>>18053093 (OP)
He killed European Civilization but seeing how he rose to power is admirable
Anonymous No.18053148 [Report] >>18053180 >>18053322 >>18053386 >>18057757
It's genuinely hard to not respect how much grinding Dick did as he somehow climbed his way from poverty to the presidency. He may have been a Mob boss-tier, paranoid sociopath but I respect him Johnson for going from literally nothing to the highest office through sheer determination. Faggy rich kids like the Kennedy's (especially that manlet Bobby) I have no respect for. Literally bought their way through every hoop with daddy Joe's money.
Anonymous No.18053180 [Report] >>18053186 >>18065622 >>18067947
>>18053109
I genuinely feel like no one has ever had more power than Stalin, he had no rivals, he didnt have to worry about public opinion or anything. Even when he was completely wrong about things he didn't get blamed. Its remarkable the control he had.

>>18053148
I think hes a good choice. He seemed to have convictions early on idk what happened
Anonymous No.18053185 [Report] >>18053341
>>18053100
For me, it's about respecting the amount of intellect that Buckley displayed. He frequently dunked on idiotic right-wing dogmatic reactionaries, even if he agreed with their general outlook. When debating, he provided coherent arguments, engaged with the opposing belief system without constructing false strawmen, and from what I saw of him on YouTube reuploads of Firing Line or Letterman interviews, he argued in good faith.
Yeah, he was a smug elitist, but I'd go as far to say that he had earned it.
The best way I would describe him is as the actual person the far right thinks Charlie Kirk was.
Anonymous No.18053186 [Report] >>18053265
>>18053180
Convictions toward being a slimeball. His Senate campaign against Douglas in '50 was pure, unadulterated retarded red baiting
Anonymous No.18053215 [Report]
>>18053093 (OP)
Tie between this guy, Herbert Spencer and Karl Marx.
Anonymous No.18053265 [Report] >>18053269 >>18053282
>>18053186
Reds and subversives were a genuine threat to america in the 50s and they showed it by destroying america culturally
Anonymous No.18053267 [Report] >>18053290
>>18053140
There was still a functional Europe on the western side of the continent many decades after his death. Things didn't start getting crappy until our lifetimes
Anonymous No.18053269 [Report] >>18059507
>>18053265
>they showed it by destroying america culturally
that was just the normal progression of liberalism
Anonymous No.18053282 [Report] >>18053309 >>18053764
>>18053265
>duh communists is why everybody is "le degenerate" now
Go back to listening to your gay Mexican twink you mouthbreather
Anonymous No.18053290 [Report] >>18053401 >>18067940
>>18053267
Nah Western Europe was utterly fucked too, the "Europe" that existed after the war was nothing but a old whore breathing it's last breaths, suffocating as it did so until eventually anything resembling Europe faded with it. Freda was already speaking about this during the 60s, now Europe is a corpse covered in maggots and foreign parasites
Anonymous No.18053309 [Report] >>18053516
>>18053282
No idea who that is
Anonymous No.18053322 [Report] >>18053516
>>18053148
>allies himself with every corrupt institution kennedy made an enemy of
>ends up betrayed by them any way
pottery
Anonymous No.18053327 [Report] >>18063699
Loyal only to his own ideals, evil as they may be.
Anonymous No.18053341 [Report] >>18056501
>>18053185
I love watching Buckley give space to antiwar protestors, discuss psychedelics with Allen Ginsberg, or try to tard wrangle a shitfaced Jack Kerouac. You can disagree with him or his guests and still find it more civilized than today’s poo flinging contests.
https://youtu.be/R0KluIXx6fI?si=jZlkB6qN4ZJf_F0x
Anonymous No.18053364 [Report]
>>18053093 (OP)
Im a jungian so i kind of dislike freud but his early work obviously is groundbreaking and many of my collegues love dismissing freud when bro was relatively close áctually. For example freudian hysteria isnt caused by sex but generally by eros so hysteria i.m.o is mostly caused by a lack of family, all this hysteric clients had no family or children look at woke woman today to see similar pathology arise, the ego id and superego concepts are genius regardless, the jews hate his work because he build it based on his own jewish psyche therefore its a map into the jewish mind whereas jungs version is more that of the goy less material
Anonymous No.18053370 [Report]
Dick cheney rosing from hillbilly to *looks at calender* vice president candidate of the USA was really impressive
Anonymous No.18053386 [Report] >>18053516
>>18053148
Good choice, it's also hard not to respect someone who was so uncharismatic in that typical American politician sense but still rose to the top. Watching old interviews of Nixon, he comes accross more as some kind of grumpy but extremely cultured English Lord rather than a candidate at extremely media-covered elections. Which is weird since he came from low a background. Very interesting guy to say the least who did some bad things nonetheless.
Anonymous No.18053396 [Report] >>18053516
Anonymous No.18053401 [Report]
>>18053290
>the "Europe" that existed after the war was nothing but a old whore breathing it's last breaths
So before WW2, Europe was a young whore?
Anonymous No.18053516 [Report] >>18053518
>>18053309
You don't belong here

>>18053322
>2025
>still believing Jackie O and Schlesinger's dick-riding Kennedy mythos bullshit about how Jack was whicket smaht and going to bring about world peace even though he couldn't get a single major bill of legislation through Congress, blew it in Cuba, turned Vietnam into the quagmire it was, got cucked by Khrushchev and turned the White House into his and Bobby's personal 10 cent whore playboy mansion with a Mob connection that they used to steal the election
Kennedy couldn't even handle his own ambassador to Vietnam, let alone the big boys KEK
Nixon betrayed himself by being a retard and going full schizotard over Danny Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers because he knew that shit would implicate him if anyone dug far enough

>>18053386
Which Nixon are you referring to? 1960's Nixon or the '68 "New Nixon" post-psychological breakdown?

>>18053396
>respecting a dude who surrounded himself with twinks and kicked off the globohomo nightmare we're in now
Care to share why with the class?
Anonymous No.18053518 [Report]
>>18053516
>>respecting a dude who surrounded himself with twinks
Based
Anonymous No.18053747 [Report]
>>18053093 (OP)
He's the first American conservative I'd ever heard give a "no" to the question of whether or not he'd have supported the American Revolutionary cause circa 1776ish. Man of principle. To be fair I haven't heard many people get asked that question, in fact I've never heard anyone get asked that question before, not even WFB probably because I'm going on long-term memory, probably imagined all of this.
Anonymous No.18053764 [Report] >>18053957
>>18053282
Literal Communist Jews infiltrated the Manhattan Project and helped the Soviets develop nuclear weapons but to this day retards still believe the Red Scare was unfounded because their hippy English teachers had them read The Crucible in 7th grade.

Newsflash, you fucking midwit: The Soviet Union was an existential threat to the West and they could and did recruit citizens of America and allied nations to spy on their behest based on ideological kinship.
Anonymous No.18053957 [Report] >>18067942
>>18053764
>a handful of spies justifies McCarthy and his butt buddy Roy going full retard in the Senate
You're on one slippery-ass slope there friend
Anonymous No.18053960 [Report] >>18059513
should be adam smith
Anonymous No.18054824 [Report] >>18055183
>>18053093 (OP)
Lit just told me this guy wrote a series of spy novels. First book is on its way.

As for people I disagree with but respect the. Definitely Stalin. There were a lot of old guard Bolshevik scum who otherwise would have lived long happy lives and died peacefully in their beds if not for Stalin. Trotsky, Babel, and Sorge to name a few.
Anonymous No.18055007 [Report]
>>18053093 (OP)
Ghengis Khan (no contemporary pic available)

I don't think he had any Grand Plan, but he was clearly a great leader of men and organizer.....albeit in a mass murdery sort of way, but the Mongols were also surprisingly "Progressive" and egalitarian in many ways, like most horse/steppe cultures.

They fell off pretty fast as a major empire, but they gave the Chinese hell for ages, which is also super cool. Mongolian wrestling is badass, and there are even the occasional blondes and blue eyed variants that show up with more frequency than you might expect.
Anonymous No.18055017 [Report] >>18055105
I just don't understand what possessing those three damn jewels does for him. His goals don't make much sense to me. But in practice, his work is solid. Things he produce work fairly well considering that he's stacked up against forces innumerable and overwhelming. It's hard to argue with such efficiency. Allying with a giant spider is disgusting but gutsy. Overall I respect him.
Anonymous No.18055105 [Report]
>>18055017
He's just misunderstood is all.
Anonymous No.18055183 [Report]
>>18054824
>and Sorge
Wasn't he executed by Japan?
Zoom Zoom No.18055247 [Report] >>18060498
>>18053093 (OP)
This guy was a fucking genius
Anonymous No.18055255 [Report] >>18056123
>>18053093 (OP)
He understood that revolution can only be done by hard, disciplined and ruthless people. I despise communism and socialism, that said he did relax state control of the economy and allow some private trade which undid some of the catastrophic failure of central planning.
Anonymous No.18056123 [Report] >>18056536
>>18055255
Steve Bannon is that you?
Anonymous No.18056501 [Report]
>>18053341
Exactly!
I'm quite the progressive myself, and frankly quite the stereotype of one, but Buckley was a man worthy of respect due to his conduct.
I wonder if they have modern podcasts featuring people as eloquent as him.
Anonymous No.18056536 [Report]
>>18056123
kek
Anonymous No.18056540 [Report]
He suppressed the right to hob nob with the left quite eloquently. I can get behind this guy.
Anonymous No.18057757 [Report]
>>18053148
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya1GWB2AMnY
Anonymous No.18057868 [Report] >>18057870
>>18053093 (OP)
Bibi.
Zionists are an abomination but the potency of their hierarchy and intellect is undeniable.
Zoom Zoom No.18057870 [Report]
>>18057868
>intellect
>Bibi
Sharon is a much better pick desu
Anonymous No.18059464 [Report]
Bump
Anonymous No.18059507 [Report]
>>18053269
I wouldn't go that far
Anonymous No.18059513 [Report]
>>18053960
I would say Eugen Bohm-Bawerk was worse, Adam Smith was just the weatherman
Anonymous No.18060424 [Report] >>18060601
>>18053093 (OP)
Myself
Anonymous No.18060498 [Report] >>18060501 >>18066543
>>18055247
>destroyed china with his one child policy
Based
Zoom Zoom No.18060501 [Report] >>18060503
>>18060498
Every 20th century totalitarian leader no matter how competent or skilled has at least one retarded policy that only comes to roost later on. OCP was Deng's, other than that he was arguably the best third world statesman of the century.
Anonymous No.18060503 [Report] >>18060507
>>18060501
To be fair to Deng, almost every asian leader of the 20th century failed for the Malthusian meme and ended up dooming their countries
Anonymous No.18060507 [Report] >>18060509
>>18060503
>failed for the Malthusian meme
saaaarrrr
Zoom Zoom No.18060509 [Report]
>>18060507
>saaaarrrr
Jeets know from experience in this context, cut him some slack.
Anonymous No.18060601 [Report]
>>18060424
>Myself
Pretty based. You realize that you're an idiot, but that that's the only resource you have access to.
Anonymous No.18062632 [Report]
bump
Zoom Zoom No.18063699 [Report]
>>18053327
Agreed
Anonymous No.18064138 [Report] >>18065926
>>18053093 (OP)
Cromwell
Anonymous No.18064284 [Report]
>>18053100
People can display erudition, wit, honestly, moral integrity or just be very charismatic and kind despite having positions contrary to yours.
Moral integrity is maybe the most important trait while becominh increasingly rare among those who engage in public discourse. I can't help but admire people who stand their ground firmly for what they believe without ever resorting to sophistry, intellectual dishonesty, demagogy and other dirty tactics.
Anonymous No.18065622 [Report]
>>18053180
I think the 1960 election was the turning point for him. He could not get over losing to Kennedy, especially with the blatant voter fraud that went into it, and spent the rest of his career furious at the Kennedy-supporting elites.
Anonymous No.18065695 [Report]
bump
Zoom Zoom No.18065926 [Report] >>18066002
>>18064138
He speedran the entire French revolutionary and Napoleonic period equivalents in England within the span of 6 years, pretty remarkable really.
Anonymous No.18066002 [Report]
>>18065926
Absolutely shit comparison desu
Anonymous No.18066491 [Report] >>18066545
>>18053093 (OP)
Respecting people with terrible ideas is how you get r*ddit. The whole "marketplace of ideas" is a fed psyop to make wrong opinions seem valid. If someone's worldview is pure ass, respecting them just means you've been brainbroken by civility politics.
Anonymous No.18066543 [Report] >>18066662
>>18060498
The issue is that having too many people is just as bad as having too few.
Look at India or Nigeria, where there are so many motherfuckers around that the government is literally trying to give them away because its impossible to support them all.
China's always had food issues, and their population was booming insanely high too fast for the government to keep up with. Slowing that down made a lot of sense in such a precarious time.
Of course then your chickens come home to roost and you get a different problem instead later on.
Its a choice of evils, no easy victory.
Anonymous No.18066545 [Report]
>>18053093 (OP)
I choose >>18066491
Zoom Zoom No.18066662 [Report] >>18066676
>>18066543
>no easy victory.
The thing is places like SK, Japan, Taiwan (even more so than any of the others) and SEA had similar demographic explosions and overpopulation and they dealt with that crisis in far less extreme ways than China did with less extreme consequences. China has now pretty much permanently fucked its demographics to a degree more than its neighbors by creating an extreme sex imbalance in favor of men, which usually breeds conflict and violence long-term that usually requires a large war or revolution to sort out.
It's like using a lobotomy to cure a frontal lobe tumor.
Anonymous No.18066676 [Report] >>18066683
>>18066662
None of them had the same issues as China.
The scale of the nations involved is too different. China is absolutely massive. South Korea is one capital city and some peripheral lands that are still reasonably close to reach and regulate. China on the other hand is subcontinental in scale.
Comparable to China is not Japan or Korea, but Indonesia. Which has a big overpopulation problem right now where Jakarta is literally sinking under its rapidly booming weight of slums so fast the Government is looking to move the capital elsewhere ASAP to escape. And other islands have their own issues with being simply so full of people that there's nothing for most to do with themselves.
Zoom Zoom No.18066683 [Report] >>18066726
>>18066676
>China is absolutely massive
Having all that land is a boon for China given they have the space to host such a large population in the first place. Especially now with technology issues that plagued China like floods and disease are nowhere near as much of an issue as they were historically.
>Indonesia
If anything China is more comparable to Brazil or the U.S, where you have a massive, densely populated, and large East coast and a vast, geographically diverse, and relatively unpopulated hinterland rich in natural resources.
Indonesia is such a sui generis state that the only contemporary country postwar Indonesia is really comparable to are its neighbors, particularly the Philippines.
Anonymous No.18066726 [Report] >>18066828
>>18066683
The land is a boon when you have total control and reach over it.
If you're looking at China in the 70s, there were large swaths of the country where their connection to Beijing was still very slow-going, and it was not quick or easy to spread information and political policies from the capital outwards. Millions of people that still lived like it was the 1600s or in slums around cities like Shanghai.
Adding another few hundred million rural peasants and low class urbanites to the mix when the government already had way more than they could handle and were trying to build new factory cities to then ship as many people as they could to them, is just going to overstress the system more than it already was.
That was Deng's issue. That they had too many people already and couldn't make them useful. A person that can't be put to work because the population is growing faster than the economy and labor market is not useful to the government. Instead, they're a detriment that absorbs more resources than they could ever pay back and threatens stability if they start wanting to riot.

China is an old world nation where people lived in their villages for thousands of years. Land that was less populated was less populated for a reason. It also had a long history of lands distant from the Capital breaking away or falling under the control of local leadership over the central government.
Indonesia was my comparison because that was another large old world country that saw a huge population boom that outran the State's ability to govern the people. India is another example. Where there are so many Indians that the government sponsors them immigrating to other nations.
Brazil is a nation that actually faces this problem a fair amount. Its favelas and slums are a product of this issue. Areas where the population boomed faster than the State's ability to reach and regulate.
Overpopulation can be a big issue, absolutely.
Zoom Zoom No.18066828 [Report] >>18066860
>>18066726
>their connection to Beijing was still very slow-going, and it was not quick or easy to spread information and political policies from the capital outwards
This is what every industrializing country goes through. Britain went through it, the U.S went through it, and Japan went through it twice (Meiji and postwar Showa). China itself went through it without seeing the CCP regime collapse or even be significantly challenged given the CCP under Deng was smart enough to liberalize the economy while retaining political control so the regime would not make the same mistakes the late Russian Empire or Nanjing-era China made.
>trying to build new factory cities to then ship as many people as they could to them, is just going to overstress the system
Wouldn't having roughly 400 million more people in less developed regions like Gansu make China develop even faster given they'd have more labor and more of a spread out population with a more even development? China also isn't a country like India that has a billion different extremely complicated ethnoreligious groups all jockeying for power and influence or one with clear-cut nationalities like the USSR/Russian Empire, it's a far more homogenous nation.
>they're a detriment that absorbs more resources than they could ever pay back and threatens stability if they start wanting to riot
I feel like engineering the demographics of your homogenous country to produce a massive glut of men to where it's statistically impossible to give them a shot at a family due to the millions of women culled by said system threatens the long-term stability of a regime like China more than anything else related to overpopulation.
>Land that was less populated was less populated for a reason.
And I'm saying those reasons are not relevant anymore given advances in technology and medicine.
>outran the State's ability to govern the people
Places you mentioned never had strong, ethnically homogenous states in the first place, unlike China.
Anonymous No.18066860 [Report] >>18069312
>>18066828
Britain and Japan are spatially much smaller than China.
The US is close, but its growth coincided with the spread of rail and the telegraph, which ameliorated that problem. In many cases, the infrastructure actually predated the people that followed it. Also, historically the US had an issue of underpopulation instead of overpopulation. After the Indians died off/were killed off, the US had lots of land with good rail connections, but no one living there. Very different from China. While the US certainly had slums and the like, people had a lot more social mobility even in that era than you'd see in slums in 70s China or today in Jakarta. Because the US had so many excess resources for people to take advantage of.

China corralled its population growth which gave the State some breathing room when dealing with all those people that suddenly spawned in.
More is more, except when it becomes too much. A nation can only build so many railroads or cars for those railroads, or buildings for housing in new cities, or set up factories or industrial parks for private capital, etc. And there are diminishing returns on that pretty quickly.
Another 10 million people from the mountain farm country isn't going to help you build another city when those people pay a pittance in taxes.

China's ethnic homogeneity is overstated by the Government and 'arr rook same' /pol/posters.
Han Chinese is as vague as "Germanic European", and then you cluster Anglos, Swedes, and Austrians together and act like they're all the same.
Many dialects of Mandarin Chinese are basically unintelligible. And that has only started to change in the last few decades among kids. And that is beyond the millions of speakers of non-Mandarin Chinese. Including in places that were super important like Shanghai.
This 'homogeneity' never stopped the Chinese State from having massive issues governing its population before.
Anonymous No.18067507 [Report]
He was, perhaps, the greatest social democrat to ever live
But in the end, he was still just a social democrat
Anonymous No.18067940 [Report]
>>18053290
>now Europe is a corpse covered in maggots and foreign parasites
How is that Hitler's fault?
Anonymous No.18067942 [Report]
>>18053957
>handwaving away the betrayal of nuclear secrets
Anonymous No.18067947 [Report]
>>18053180
>he didnt have to worry
He lived with the fear of be betrayed and killed
Anonymous No.18068932 [Report]
bump
Zoom Zoom No.18069312 [Report]
>>18066860
>people had a lot more social mobility even in that era than you'd see in slums in 70s China
The OCP became a thing in 1979 when China's birthrate was already at a mangeable level (2.7). The postwar boom had stopped be it due to famine/poverty or just a matter of time. The social mobility China got from the 80s to 2010s was due to the fiscal reforms of Deng, Zemin, and Jintao above all else and had little to nothing to do with the OCP.
>there are diminishing returns on that pretty quickly.
Those returns would diminish a lot slower if China had hundreds of millions more working age men to build those railways and cities alongside women for them to get with.
>Han Chinese is as vague as "Germanic European", and then you cluster Anglos, Swedes, and Austrians together and act like they're all the same
That's still far more homogenous than a place like Russia where you have Turkic, Mongolic, Caucasian, and Iranian peoples with various different religious, linguistic, and ethnic identities coexisting with an East Slavic majority or a Western country where it's a hodgepodge of mystery meat from former colonies along with a mix of various refugees and economic migrants from the third world coexisting with native populations that already had serious preecisting differences and identities.
How are the divisions between the various Han subgroups in China any different than those between say, the various regional and linguistic subgroups of the English (i.e North v. South, Catholic v. Protestant) or the French and the Catalans/Occitanians? They seem pretty typical of a larger ethnic group.
>This 'homogeneity' never stopped the Chinese State from having massive issues governing its population before.
Every country regardless of ethnic makeup has had issues with governance. What I'm trying to say is that China likely won't balkanize given historical Chinese states have almost always occupied the territory present-day China does.