Thread 18056411

Is billions of years of torture proportionate to a lifetime (80 years) of sin? How can God be a logical creator if he does this?

>>18056411 (OP)
Hell is for people like pic related.

justice is measured not by the actions you have done, but by your intentions

Homicide, Murder, Self-defence, Warcrimes, etc, all did the same thing, but they had different reasons for it. And that's how you measure your justice

Now, here comes God
God is a being of infinite Good
He made you with nothing but love, and he intends only for you to be at your best
If you reject him, then you have much to explain. And that explanation is what justifies your damnation


Rejecting him because you do not understand his plans is forgivable. But continuing to reject him, sabotaging his plans, and causing harm to others without any sense of repentance or remorse, is a decision that will be done for eternity

>>18056474
how can a man sabotage plans of an omniscient being that permeates all reality and is the beginning and the end? sounds like launching a nuke at a mosquito

>>18056411 (OP)
based
God knows best

>>18056471
>le rolls royce
what hollywood movie is this from?

>>18056709
Free Will

He gave you gifts so you can participate in his grand plan. You decided to use those gifts to ruin the canvas that he is making.

God will not take his gifts back.
But he will still inflict righteous punishment

>>18056771
The power dynamic implied here is the equivalent of giving a 2 year old a glass full of water and threatening to beat the shit out of him if he spills it. Does this truly make sense to you?

free will is a superstition at this point

>>18056783
2 year olds don't know
But you do
And you did it with a full conscience

>>18056471
Hell is for the demon worshippers known as Hindoos

>>18056789
The difference in understanding the nature of reality and how things works between god and man vs man and 2 year old is several magnitudes greater. Ss in, man knows much MUCH less, regardless of conscience. Wouldn't it be more merciful for god to let it slide, just like it's inappropriate to beat up a child for spilling water that he definitely will spill?

>>18056797
Bitch
He made you in his image precisely so you can understand the nature of reality and how things work

You only mission is to worship him and do as he did. But noooooooo
For some reason, that is too inconvenient for you

I wonder what that reason could be

>>18056816
i don't worship dead cultist jews, sorry

>>18056824
Then you cannot join him either

>>18056816
So you are an itenerant preacher for a few months, doing miracles, and then will be crucified?

Or are you still in your phase between childhood and adulthood where apparently Jesus did nothing of note?

Why does God need worship if he is who you say he is? Imagine an actual God caring about if humans worship him like some Hollywood celebrity.

>>18056841
He doesn't "need" anything
He is perfect. He is complete.

Worship of him is what we need.

To worship is to put him above all else and follow in his example
If you do not worship him, then you will worship something else and fall to their deceptions.

The doctor demands your full faith, no matter what. Otherwise, you would start curing yourself using healing stones.
You only duty is to have faith and do as he did. Even if it means that you have to lie down and be operated on. Have faith that he is going to rid of your tumor

>>18056851
i'm starting to recognize your posts across threads. you sound like a megachurch pastor

>>18056869
I am a Catholic

>>18056851
It's interesting how so many abrahamics are pedophiles.

>He doesn't "need" anything
>He is perfect. He is complete.
ok
>Worship of him is what we need.
Why ?
>To worship is to put him above all else and follow in his example
So abandoning your family, friends, job and humanity.
>If you do not worship him, then you will worship something else and fall to their deceptions.
Communists say the exact same thing about people who don't follow them.
>The doctor demands your full faith, no matter what. Otherwise, you would start curing yourself using healing stones.
That isn't how reality works. If a doctor doesn't fix anyone's medical issues he's a bad doctor. If God doesn't fix your problems it's your fault for being a bad believer.
>You only duty is to have faith and do as he did.
Purposely annoying people until they kill you because you want to die? Hoping your death brings the cult more attention with martyr Messiah Ben Yosef?
>>18056851
>Even if it means that you have to lie down and be operated on. Have faith that he is going to rid of your tumor
Qualifications and a proven track record in the medical field ARE NOT faith.
Acupuncture IS faith.
>>18056871
>I am a Catholic
you're an autistic larping as a Christian. You aren't anything.

>>18056411 (OP)
Read pic related and realize hell is bullshit

>>18056896
Hey buddy, God never promised that you would live in luxury.
Every prophet went through extreme ordeals
The Messiah is right there on the cross

God will not raise a spoiled brat.

He promises that you will join him in his kingdom, but you have to forsake this world in exchange. And you do it by worshipping him

Make your choice, wisely

>>18056411 (OP)
Yes. God's game, God's rules. Your opinion is 100% irrelevant.
>>18056474
Remember, you are going to burn in Hell forever, and you fully deserve it. I can't wait to see the look on your face when you find out how badly the Pope misled you. Tick tock!

Maybe traditional doctrine is incomplete.

>>18056474
>He made you with nothing but love, and he intends only for you to be at your best

Even if I'm born with Harlequin Ichthyosis?

>>18057118
jews who wrote the bible were not aware of the hundreds of debilitating disorders that people can be born with so they're not accounted for in the scripture. apologetics tries elaborate mental gymnastics to explain this with le heckin god's trials because he knows you can take it!

It's a revelation that God hasn't given to me yet but I hope when I die I will understand
Obviously it's right but I can't intuitively feel it, it's not my place to intuit this though

>>18057129
>>18057118
Have fun burning.

>>18057118
Aye, lad
The world fell out of its intended design but he still allows it because he can find some good use out of it

Your duty is to give your suffering to him

>>18056411 (OP)
Sin is irreducibly evil.
You have a conscious soul. You have the choice to not sin, but you do it anyways. And the answer as to why you sin, once you strip away every layer of rationalization is
>I wanted to do evil even when I did not have to
All sin is infinitely evil, even if some sins are more evil than others
>inb4 that math doesn't make sense
Consider that the Universe is expanding into the infinitude of empty space, does this invalidate the distance relationship between objects in space?
Everyone in Hell is suffering in proportion to HOW evil their sin was, for an infinite amount of time.

>>18056816
>made you in his image
Because u said so
The analogy anon gave us is a rational comparison of proportionality. Nice work side stepping the issue however Hitler and Dahmer combined is the same as us, compared to infinity. Sin is irrational to measure against cosmic forces like a theoretical deity.

>>18056411 (OP)
In Aryan cosmology, life in a hell realms last so long because its hard to aquire good karma. So ita not so much about equitable punishments as systemic flaw in reality itself.
Also it's harder to get into hell in Aryan cosmology (you have to murder people etc).

>>18057344
He made you in his image
And he came in the form of a man, so you will not have such silly excuses

If you want to understand God, look at Jesus

>>18057355
There are images of animals that are similar to ours, if you study morphology. What image we're made in is by all appearances not capable of harming infinitely powerful beings, so once again you are not addressing the issue. You have as well have gone with "mysterious ways" or "we only know what the bible says about it"

>>18057383
Made in his image is your ability to understand Jesus, and decide whether to follow or reject him

>>18056411 (OP)
Belief in eternal conscious torment beyond the Day of Judgment is heresy.

When the damned are cast in the Lake of Fire, that's it for them. They're consumed in the fire and cease to exist. Damnation is oblivion. Only the saved get eternal life.

>>18056411 (OP)
>Is billions of years of torture proportionate to a lifetime (80 years) of sin?
No. Realizing free will isn't, at least in an utterly radical way, makes this easier to understand.

>is throwing away my life that God graciously gave me, to instead do whatever I want, to live selfishly, to distance myself from Him, the one that gave his own life just because he loved me and wanted me to live in eternal joy forever, really worthy of damnation?

Yes. God loves you so much he gave you the free will to do whatever you want. Punishment has to exist if God truly loves anyone. You already know how you're supposed to live your life. If you want to live your life in sin and away from God then that's fine, but you can spend the rest of eternity doing it. Read the bible. The door is open for everyone. But once it's closed, it's closed for good. He's not coming back to check if anyone's out there. He doesn't know you anymore. Because you decide it's not worth knowing Him either.

>>18057401
Wouldn't eternal life get boring?

>>18057431
i swear to god this board is being brigaded by several american evangelical pastors, reading some of the posts seems like a parody of the bombastic sermons by the pastors who roll up to their church in a bentley

>>18057454
If God intended for eternal life in heaven you'd be enjoying it so much you wouldn't want it to end.

The idea that the smartest, all knowing being in existence who created this universe we all live in is somehow too inept to create a place where things are not boring is absurd.

>>18057454
Immortality is boring
Eternal Life is not

Life comes from God, and God is the being where all good bursts forth.
Eternal life is found by being one with God, and God will never run out of great things to show you

But it comes at the cost of you forsaking sin

>>18057396
We don't have the ability to know the universe maker better than a 2 year old knows a cup of water, because a universe maker sounds extremely hard to understand and complex. Pretending to know shit all about it is what religious people do to make life seem grand, it's egocentric, anthropocentric.
>>18057431
How does an omniscient being not know something? How does free will exist if an omniscient being made it? How does God not understand what free will results in?
>Read the bible
That is the last thing you would want people to do to convert them. Have you read it? Because it is a continual effort to interpret every line differently for it to make sense it is an utterly political effort to do so.
>Punishment has to exist if God truly loves anyone
Is that God's rules of physics or your own cope? That sounds like yet another limitation you've put on God arbitrarily.
>>18057020
>God's rules
Your fucking interpretation*, which is different than 99.98%+ of every other person's, who has ever been born.
>>18056909
I choose to not be hypnotized by kikeshit. If you want to get fucked by life, society will naturally relegate you to the dumpster. There are Christian nations left in Africa if you want to give it a try.

>>18057506
nobody gives a fuck you retarded spammer

>>18057506
Geez, if you don't like Christ, just say so.

Just indulge in your sins and care no longer. It is what you want, and we will not stop that

>>18057518
I think I'll make 10 more threads and you won't do shit. All christians that made fun of my transition will suffer

>>18057473
There's a big crowd of Christians on 4chan which is kind of unnatural for an anime porn site. I can't imagine it isnt funded or botted. Do they not have boring Christian Facebook page to huff each other's farts on?

>>18057518
You’re going to the same Hell for which that freak is destined. In case you forgot.

>>18057531
engagement farming bots. users help slide one another off the board for AI generated bait.

>>18057528
>made fun of my transition will suffer

>>18057514
I used to be Christian, it took me a decade or more to realize it was irrational.
>>18057518
I know Christians enjoy making it an emotional parent child situation, but my approach is grounded in long term reading. I don't factor "hate" into whether I believe something or not! Jesus is not your husband. God isn't your dad. Mary isn't your mom. BTW

>>18057548
You are a spammer and therefore not human.

>>18056411 (OP)
hell was never eternal torture. the lake of fire is where those without eternal life are annihilated. the bible only says that the fire burns forever, not that you're actually burned alive forever. in those same passages jesus is comparing remaining in duality to being thrown into gehenna, which was a local dump for burning garbage.

>>18057567
I am a spammer, however the code is gonna slide this one now that I'm here

>>18057548
Jesus is my God.

Merely believing in Jesus doesn't mean anything. The devil met him personally and he is not saved

If you do not worship Jesus, then you also refuse to be part of his kingdom

>>18057548
>I used to be Christian
Does it really think we don’t see through its lies? I know for sure you never believed. That’s what the Bible clearly teaches. There is no such thing as an ex-Christian, just a hater of the Lord who wants to feign credibility.

>>18057602
Liking Captain America doesn't make the belief that he is real or not stronger.

>>18057611
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you. They will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life.

>>18057602
based. it's funny how the stuff Jesus says is gonna happen (people saying "lord lord" etc) starts happening immediately, even in the bible itself. a few chapters after Jesus you get Paul saying "actually do what Jesus said? naah all you need to do is say "lord lord" and you will be fine".

>>18057623
The kike that wrote that was referring to Christians.

>>18057591
>>18057623

I always do the opposite of what spammers say but I must grudgingly approve your honesty.

>>18057020
Wishing your fellow man burn in hell and being excited for them to be straying from God is itself a grave sin. I pray you repent, and change your ways.
Wish to see your brothers in Heaven, and more come to God's love.

>>18057658
this is probably the same bot as the antichristian poster. maybe the pagan poster too and definitely the nihilist philosopher poster.

>>18057665
Are you calling me the bot poster or the person I replied to. There are endless bots here. Beep boop I am human

>>18057668
it works either way, the bot isn't limited to one position. If human you should know it's a spam thread.

>>18057616
Jesus demands worship, not favor
Either you give it your all or none at all.

You can't claim that you love your wife if you will lay with another woman 1 week every year

Being lukewarm has no place in God's kingdom

>>18057684
yea good point. removing from watcher. Peace friend.

>>18057694
what? Jesus doesn't demand worship, he demands that we keep his word.

>>18057708
"You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve"

W.O.R.S.H.I.P
If you want to be part of a nation, you must pledge allegiance to its flag *Wholeheartedly*

You cannot live in a nation while pledging your life to another. You are just a traitor waiting to open the gates.

Either you worship God and God alone, or get out

>>18057717
what makes you think Jesus is talking about himself in Matt 4:10?

>>18057717
>>18057755
Based off the reply chain it really seems like these are both bots. Anyone want to tell me I'm crazy?

>>18057755
He who has seen me has seen the Father

>>18057794
Jesus has the father in him and he is in the father yes, but he's not the father. You see the father in the son because he perfectly reflects his fathers image. But you shouldn't worship an image. The son points to the father, if you worship the son you miss the point.

>>18057694
You are strawmanning on purpose or a bot dedicated to doing this, but this was an easy one.
Worshipping captain America doesn't make the belief that he is real stronger.

>>18057766
Maybe you're the bot! Would a bot say NIGGERNIGGERCHICKENFIGGERLALALALALLALANIGGERS!!!!!! I think it ought not.

>>18057840
what do you think about godjak spam like this thread and spammers like yourself

>>18057836
Worship means to put his law above all else and follow in his example right down to the tee.

>>18057856
I think it mirrors the forced apple m$/ windows Linux threads people on /g/ want to murder jannies IRL over

>>18056411 (OP)
Eternal conscious torment appears to have been believed by most of the early church fathers.

>>18056411 (OP)
It's not billions of years. There's no time element. It's instantaneous and eternal. The annihilation metaphor is the closet thing we can imagine.

>>18058052
In other words, this site is dead so they engagement farm with bots. As a free user who will never give a dime or click an ad, it could be seen as a good deal for me, but I don't like the way in which it was done. They should be deleted per the rules at least because bots can make a new one, bots can follow rules. The double standard is just an attempt to get rid of intelligent people, which shows as always their hatred and fear of freedom.

>>18057623
>non-sequitur
You lost. :)

>>18056411 (OP)
sin is not real

>>18056471
>not the heckin drug addict criminal that robbed a woman for crack money

>>18060435
So morals are entirely subjective? Could there be a society that takes newborn babies and puts them into blenders and they call that "good"?

>>18056771
>>18056474
Free will is a nigger cope, our idea of grace is a question of will, well fuck you, back in the first millennium, grace came from the community of Christ, the holy Spirit bound the church together for salvation. you ever wonder why predestination isn't the immediate conclusion people drew, and why it took 1500 years to come to this obvious (and correct if you take god by the church's own doctrine) solution? They literally had a totally different way of viewing the world.

Also, hell is just Hades barrowed from Greek mythology, half this shit is just literature compiled by literature nerds, you had all these hellenized jews that had been living in Greece and the eastern empire for generations and these were the early Christians. if you strip these dubiously translated descriptions from doctrine, annihilationism is the correct view if you take Christian theology on its terms.

>>18056411 (OP)
> How can eldtritch, utterly inhuman horror be a logical creator if he does this?
There your answer

>>18060435
>every human being is perfect
levels of delusion that are simply astonishing

>>18056474
>He made you with nothing but love, and he intends only for you to be at your best
Is this why he trapped my soul in prison of crude and hideous flesh and equally crude and hideous nightmarish world ruled by satan?
>If you reject him, then you have much to explain. And that explanation is what justifies your damnation
The god that allows countless fucked up evil shit to happen is not good, divine no doubt but not good.
I just have no desire to exist in such shit conditions, its just not worth it.

>>18056771
If i have free will, why i am denied choice to not exist, so why i am forced to exist against my free will?
I absolutely do not consent to this shit.

>>18056871
So not christian.

>>18056909
>Hey buddy
>spoiled brat.
So in other words you are unwashed boomeristic communist.
You are piece of shit and you are going to enjoy burning in hell.

>>18060452
>not the heckin womanarinoes!
Stop being such simp

>>18056474
>He made you with nothing but love,
Nah if that was the case he would have hung out and been a bro instead of trapping them in a garden with poisonous fruit and an evil liar while he fucked off to who knows where and just waited for nature to take its course.