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Thread 18064167

146 posts 92 images /his/
Anonymous No.18064167 >>18064185 >>18064208 >>18064233 >>18064326 >>18064362 >>18064383 >>18064399 >>18064439 >>18064498 >>18064942 >>18065744 >>18065854 >>18065881 >>18067501 >>18069558 >>18069985 >>18070433 >>18071292 >>18074725 >>18075621
Explain Nordicism
Where did the myth that ancient Greeks were nordics come from? I don't remember any historical Greeks being described as blue-eyed, and there are about 3 people described as having light hair.

There are way more nobles and scientists among Northern Europeans who were described as having brown eyes or black hair. Then why doesn't anyone claim that north European civilization is brown, Nordic elites were Med, and so on?
Anonymous No.18064185 >>18064227 >>18064232 >>18065744 >>18067489 >>18070433
>>18064167 (OP)
There are different versions of Nordicism. The stereotypical one is that ancient Hellenes and Romans were literally Nordic migrants from Scandinavia. The theory that I find more likely is that a lot of the current Greeks and Italians have been mutted to reduce the traits that made them impressive in Antiquity, and that those traits are now found most prevalently in Nordics (ie. Scandinavians + Northern Germany, Holland, etc.). Europeans are after all related peoples.
Kinda like the situation in India, just way less extreme.
Anonymous No.18064208 >>18064227
>>18064167 (OP)
You're not fooling anyone, Moshe.
Anonymous No.18064227 >>18064261
>>18064185
>traits that made them impressive in Antiquity
Kek
>>18064208
Begone, schizo
Anonymous No.18064232 >>18064241 >>18064261
>>18064185
I believe the differences are mainly:
1) In the past, people with traits that made them contribute more to civilization were more prominent, nowadays this has changed
2) Long-term corrupt and often foreign rule led to people's sense of ethnic community and trust in state-related institutions lessening and their materialistic side dominating.
3) Demographic changes did happen, but were not nearly as radical as you seem to imply. However, it took a long time to recover from them (assimilation of foreign elements always causes upheaval)
However, I completely disagree with the whole "Nordic" stuff, there is no reason to believe ancienr Greeks and Romans were more Nordic-like than their modern descendants. If anything, Italy in particular experienced periods of Nordic or semi-Nordic settlement and even rule, and ancient Germanic tribes were not known for their rational, orderly nature, stable, prosperous rule or scientific achievements. The situation in India is completely different, as there were different groups of people living side by side and a fairly strict segregation.
Anonymous No.18064233 >>18064375 >>18070457
>>18064167 (OP)
Several Greek gods were said to have blonde hair including Hercules, pigment analysis has shown that statues often had blonde hair and pink skin, etc. And yes, many Nordic elites were Italian/Spanish/French, Europe has had internal migration since time immemorial.
Anonymous No.18064241 >>18064273 >>18064299
>>18064232
The Germanic tribes were actually surprisingly technologically proficient.
Anonymous No.18064248
Do people actually believe having blonde hair makes you inherently more clever or am I being memed?
Anonymous No.18064261 >>18064299
>>18064227
>guy prefers his own people
No shit.
>>18064232
>1) 2) 3)
No particular disagreement there.
>ancient Germanic tribes were not known for their rational, orderly nature, stable, prosperous rule or scientific achievements.
No, but modern Nordics are. As a completely theoretical hypothesis, you could imagine ancient Meds having 100% on the "rational, orderly, stable, prosperous and scientific" scale, with Germanics (modern and ancient) having 80%. So the ancient Meds would see the Germanics as irrational and disorderly etc. But then if the ancient Meds suffer (for whatever reason) from a degradation over time that brings them down to 70%. Now the 80% Germanics are the most rational, orderly, stable, prosperous and scientific.
In the same way, modern Nordics retain more Indo-European DNA than anyone else that I'm aware of, but they're still only 50% IE. They're WAY less IE than historical IE descendant populations, but they're still the most IE extant population now.
Anonymous No.18064273
>>18064241
This is true. The Cimbrian wars describe them as fully armored riders with ornate breastplates and helmets shaped like animals and so on. The Nordic Bronze Age is full of extremely complex metalwork.
They just didn't build out of stone (wood is plentiful and stone is rare there) and relied on an oral tradition rather than writing, so we're left with little to marvel at compared to the marble and books of the Meds.
Anonymous No.18064299 >>18064307 >>18064339
>>18064241
Mainly when it comes to metalsmithing.
>>18064261
I am not sure if IE admixture is the reason for the progress of civilization. If memory serves me right, the highest IE admixture in Antiquity was found (at least among samples published so far) in the Steppe populations like Scythians and Sarmatians, who were known as fierce, warlike and hardy people, but not particularly sophisticated (with some exceptions like goldworking). Also, among modern populations IE admixture might be slightly higher in NW Europe, but it is almost equally high in some mountain tribes in Tajikistan and fairly high in some North Caucasians - more so than in, say, Southwestern France. So I am very cautious towards the "more IE = more civilized" hypothesis
Anonymous No.18064307 >>18064339 >>18070442
>>18064299
Samefag but forgot to mention possibly the most important part: ancient Greek samples so far have about half the Steppe of modern Greeks, on average. In Italy the difference is much smaller, with IA Italics having slightly lower Steppe (and slightly higher WHG) than modern Italians. In both cases, the main difference is the ancients having more EEF
Anonymous No.18064326 >>18064357 >>18070462
>>18064167 (OP)
all the people that took greece in several migrations from whoever the 'pelazgi' were, were pie people, lots of them were probably bright eye colored and maybe even blond, same thing in much of the levant, those whoevers that spread out from central asia didnt just go to sweden, they spread all arround from france to iraq, this is the same thing the idea jesuses bloodline was 'white' comes from, at some point canan was conquered by some northern mountain peoples that came from further up arround the caucasus, same thing as greece, the thing that makes it absurd is the equasion of 'pie' and 'arian' with whatever some 1960s neonazi thought they should be cause hitler told him in a dream
Anonymous No.18064328
Nordicists are niggers
Anonymous No.18064337 >>18064345 >>18064352 >>18065884
The actual statues of Romans/Greeks all get detected as Italian/Greek by AI. The exception is some shitty digital reconstructions which get detected as British/Nordic.
Anonymous No.18064339 >>18064359 >>18064388
>>18064299
> So I am very cautious towards the "more IE = more civilized" hypothesis
That wasn't my hypothesis at all. It was a simple comparison.
>>18064307
That seems about right. European high civilization probably comes out of a very specific cocktail of European DNA combined with an ordered caste system.
Anonymous No.18064345 >>18064363 >>18065884
>>18064337
Anonymous No.18064352 >>18064384
>>18064337
im sure if you took that last image, and walked got some zoomie yutubers to walk arround dublin, manchaster, stocholm, warsava, prague, zagreb, budimpest, belgrade, sofia, milan, torino, athens or barcelona theyd find like 50 guys look just exactly like that and half of them would be blond, same as that 'ghotic warrior' forensic reconstruct looks like every other east euro footbal hooligan
Anonymous No.18064357
>>18064326
>schizo we wuzzing
canaanites and their descendants (incl. jews) are not IE at all, save for ashkenazim who have absorbed some in relatively recent times. They're semites.
> the thing that makes it absurd is the equasion of 'pie' and 'arian' with whatever some 1960s neonazi thought they should be cause hitler told him in a dream
Aryan was just the term used at the time for Indo-Europeans, anon. Hitler didn't come up with it, it was just the word used at the time, just like people spoke of "blood" instead of "DNA" because the latter hadn't been discovered yet. Post-war, our benevolent overlords ridiculed the IE theory as nazi pseudoscience, but linguistics and archaeogenetics have certainly proven highly supportive of it.
Your own post (prior to the jew thing) is supporting it.
Anonymous No.18064359 >>18064385
>>18064339
>ordered caste system
Not exactly, but we should always keep in mind that when speaking of "the ancient Greeks" or "the Romans" we are referring to a small subset of the population. I think that is the main difference; it's not that ancients were necessarily "better", it's that there were larger differences between segments of society, with the "lesser" ones being less prominent
Anonymous No.18064362 >>18064401 >>18067673
>>18064167 (OP)
Arthur de Gobineau. His contemporaries mocked him for having dark, protruding, bug eyes.

>In 1871, poet Wilfrid Scawen Blunt who met Gobineau described him thus:

>"Gobineau is a man of about 55, with grey hair and moustache, dark rather prominent eyes, sallow complexion, and tall figure with brisk almost jerky gait. In temperament he is nervous, energetic in manner, observant, but distrait, passing rapidly from thought to thought, a good talker but a bad listener. He is a savant, novelist, poet, sculptor, archaeologist, a man of taste, a man of the world."

His mother, Anne-Louise Magdeleine de Gercy, was the daughter of a non-noble royal tax collector whose family lived in Haiti, which made him fear that he was mulatto. Magdeleine cucked Gobineau's father as his private tutor and took his sisters away prostituting/scamming to support themselves, which made Gobineau the butt of jokes among his fellow aristocrats. Despite despising his cuckold father, Gobineau married ClΓ©mence Gabrielle Monnerot, the woman his best friend, Pierre de Serre, got pregnant and abandoned her.

To cope with this, Gobineau had a hyper-focus on the Middle Ages, Islam and Norse paganism; one of his colleagues said of him:

>"All of his aspirations were towards the East. He dreamt only of mosques and minarets; he called himself a Muslim, ready to make the pilgrimage to Mecca."

Despite being very sympathetic to Medieval Catholicism and Islam, Gobineau abandoned Catholicism and in all seriousness began to worship the ancient pagan gods of the Vikings. And in his last book, Histoire de Ottar Jarl, he attempted to trace his ancestry back to Ottar Jarl, a Norwegian pirate settled in Normandy who was a member of a royal race that claimed descent from Odin.

TL;DR Here we have the typical /pol/ autist, problems with his mother, going reeee boomer on his father, delusions of grandeur, fantasies about a romanticized past, sympathy for Islam, autist obsession with purity etc.
Anonymous No.18064363 >>18064384
>>18064345
The second one doesn't even look particularly Nordic or British, rather in between Italian, Balkan, German and Polish. Of course, the first looks more distinctly "Mediterranean", as in, not really passing in Northern Europe
Anonymous No.18064375 >>18064389
>>18064233
Those light-haired gods had brown eyes (except for Athena), that is very uncommon among nordics. And there are basically zero real Greeks who were described as blue eyed.
Anonymous No.18064383
>>18064167 (OP)
Nordicism comes from nordic copers.
Even classical anthropologists were divided, people like Grant, who were interested in coping and never analyzed a skull in their lives, were making up strange theories about caste systems, racial dilution and other BS.
people like Coon, that was more interested in skulls, frankly identified the truth that we are aware of now thanks to aDNA, just from looking at skulls and comparing it to modern populations.
Nordicism is akin to niggers claiming vikings were black. It's the same impulse.
aDNA will anyway change these types of "sciences" making it hard sciences.
Scientific papers rarely have significantly different results. The data is always the same, at most interpretations change.
Anonymous No.18064384 >>18064411
>>18064352
>>18064363
The point is that there's an inherent bias in making Greeks/Romans to look more Nordic. They change the facial features in the digital reconstructions to look more Nordic too. Hair/eye color doesn't change your ethnicity. A blond Italian still looks Italian.
Anonymous No.18064385
>>18064359
That's exactly what an ordered caste system is though.
Anonymous No.18064388 >>18064415
>>18064339
There was no caste system by DNA in europe, there were nobles and non nobles. Mycenaeans elite samples from the palace of nestor are indistinguishable from a random mycenaean you could find buried. They are literally run of the mill.
Anonymous No.18064389 >>18064392
>>18064375
>that is very uncommon among nordics
Anonymous No.18064392 >>18064421
>>18064389
Nordics were not anywhere near ancient greece. You don't need to over obsess on statues or badly made reconstructions. We have scientific data.
Anonymous No.18064399 >>18065889
>>18064167 (OP)
>There are way more nobles and scientists among Northern Europeans who were described as having brown eyes or black hair. Then why doesn't anyone claim that north European civilization is brown, Nordic elites were Med, and so on?
Meds don't have inferiority complex about their history so they don't need to claim other achievements.
Anonymous No.18064401
>>18064362
this makes so much sense its not even funny

in the balkans people would say during the 90is with all the bullshit going on, the only ethnicaly clean family is the one where the postman never came
Anonymous No.18064411 >>18064426
>>18064384
the point is the notion of 'nordic' is made up bullshit, scandiavian know what they look like no one has to tell them, all euros look like what they look like, the term 'nordic' is a kind of empty signifier, fuckers that made up the term 'white' didnt even think scandinavians are white
Anonymous No.18064415 >>18064423
>>18064388
>there were nobles and non nobles.
That's a caste system.
>by DNA in europe
I can't say whether that's true or not, but as a European, I can certainly tell the upper classes from the lower classes at a glance in pretty much any country I've visited. There's at least a strong phenotypical difference. If you go to countries with mixed populations like France or Spain, it is very obvious. Less so in places like Scandinavia.
>Mycenaeans elite samples
That's a pretty specific sample kek
If we're doing niche examples, the Spartans are famous for having a clearly racial caste system, so there's your Mycenaean counter.
Anonymous No.18064421
>>18064392
Do you not know how greentexting works? The part that I highlighted is what I'm commenting on, newfag.
Anonymous No.18064423 >>18064461
>>18064415
No a caste system is far more complicated and implies no social mobility. There are nobles to this day in europe, they look normal in their countries, and if they took a dna test, they'd be average from their region, because population tend to homogeneize.
Spartans were not noted to ever look different from the rest of greeks, nor macedonians, and in fact their DNA is similar to the rest of samples from the region.
Just stop coping.
Anonymous No.18064426 >>18064447
>>18064411
>the point is the notion of 'nordic' is made up bullshit
shalom
>Scandinavia
Scandinavia is not a land racially exclusive to Nordics, even before modernity.
Anonymous No.18064439 >>18064442
>>18064167 (OP)
>scientists among Northern Europeans who were described as having brown eyes or black hair. Then why doesn't anyone claim that north European civilization is brown, Nordic elites were Med, and so on?
Science and philosophy are tedious mental labor, it is merely hoeing a field in the mind. The point of ruling over the masses is that they do all the hard work.
Anonymous No.18064442
>>18064439
Anonymous No.18064447 >>18064474
>>18064426
the notion of 'nordic' pertains to the idea that a imaginary race of superhumans spread from somewhere where the fucking eskimos live, and went trough north europe down to asia and all the way to the indian ocean building civilisations everiwhere they took a shit, its mickey mouse crap made up by 19th century hacks and has nothing to o with how ethnogenesis works or how pie epeople spread arround the world, it might as well be about aliens sending ufos from the arctic
Anonymous No.18064461 >>18064477 >>18064480
>>18064423
>a caste system is far more complicated and implies no social mobility.
Not necessarily. From Merriam Webster:
>2a: a division of society based on differences of wealth, inherited rank or privilege, profession, occupation, or race
...sooo?
>There are nobles to this day in europe, they look normal in their countries
Have you been?
>Spartans were not noted to ever look different from the rest of the greeks
Irrelevant goalpost move. The helots are clearly a different ethnos.
>stop coping
I don't know what I would even be coping about, but you seem to be getting a bit flustered.
Anonymous No.18064474 >>18064488
>>18064447
It absolutely is not. You're thinking of Tilak's work. Nordic is just a racial term for the Germanic speaking peoples of Scandinavia and to a certain extent, Northern Germany, Holland, etc. Nordics use it as an endonym (and others have used it as an exonym) for centuries. What do you think the first syllable in Norway or Normandy refers to?
Anonymous No.18064477 >>18064485
>>18064461
I get flustered when I talk with retards. It doesn't matter how much you "ragebait" or "troll" here. Mines aren't debate points but a declaration of victory.
Nordix existed in history from 1500 to 2010, and then they got genocided by ashke jews. They didn't exist as a serious political entity before and they won't after.
Anonymous No.18064480 >>18064495
>>18064461
this is a frequent problem lots of european nationalists have when they try to consolidate some mythology over how their nation became 'a nation' since it seems there were layers upon layers of small, marginal even, minorities, that ruled large areas, as nobility, or warrior casts, or just whoever was the cohort of a wictorious warlord, so for some decades its huns, then it might be goths then its avars etc, but just logisticaly this could never have been more than a small subset of the population, and genetics show the population didnt change that much, in some regions it didnt seem to significantly change since before roman times
Anonymous No.18064485
>>18064477
>I get flustered when I talk with retards.
>Proceeds to kvetch a bunch of retardation
What did jacob mean by this?
Anonymous No.18064488 >>18064499
>>18064474
then what does it have to do with grece or italy or egipt?
Anonymous No.18064495 >>18064499
>>18064480
Well, modern nationalism is gay and retarded. It's all downstream from race, not nation-state. If we're going to do "nationalism" (ie. ethnic in-group preference), it has to be done concentrically and racially, not based on some relatively recent (in the grand scheme of things) national boundary dictated by this or that nobleman's third cousin's pet dog's previous owner's grandfather having assassinated the rightful heir and seized that duchy.
Anonymous No.18064498
>>18064167 (OP)
Why do most depigmented Europeans look Mongoloid, most similar to Savolaxid? When did they become depigmented?
Anonymous No.18064499 >>18064511
>>18064495
>It's all downstream from race, not nation-state.
*In reality, everything is downstream from race, not nation-state.
>>18064488
Look up terms you don't understand on your own time. I'm not a search engine.
Anonymous No.18064511 >>18064523
>>18064499
the terms are bullshit, theres people that actualy deal with this crap, its not some online hobby
Anonymous No.18064523 >>18064565
>>18064511
Have you considered just going back?
Anonymous No.18064565 >>18064594
>>18064523
where?
Anonymous No.18064580 >>18064939 >>18065894
When, Dalits?
Anonymous No.18064594
>>18064565
To wherever you're from, so you dont have to "actually deal with this crap".
Anonymous No.18064918 >>18064939 >>18064984
No way Neo-European "South/West European" Araplar think they look Graeco-Roman.
Anonymous No.18064921 >>18064939
Shitskinlar be like:
>Saar, I'm a shitskin because I'm Yamnaya, saar.
Anonymous No.18064939 >>18064943
>>18064580
>>18064918
>>18064921
Tatar schizo
Anonymous No.18064942
>>18064167 (OP)
>Nordicism
Anonymous No.18064943
>>18064939
Shitskin.
Anonymous No.18064945
Raped and cucked shitskin Araps.
Anonymous No.18064975
Anonymous No.18064984 >>18075645
>>18064918
AI doesn't agree with your delusion.
Anonymous No.18065744 >>18065845
>>18064167 (OP)
>>18064185
Neptune & Dyeus were the gods of CwC and Yamnaya respectively.
When the overpopulated coast of the north sea decided to move eastward along the steppelands in 4000BC, they started a conflict with those that already lived there.
CwC lost the war for the power to rule in the southeast, leading the Dyeus-worshipping steppe peoples to invade the Aegean and become greeks.
tldr;
the Titanomachy was a battle between Funnelbeakers and Epigravettians, the source inspiration for Aesir & Vanir,- with the Jotnar always having been Anatolian herders that birthed both sides.
Anonymous No.18065845 >>18065951
>>18065744
no
Anonymous No.18065854 >>18065921
>>18064167 (OP)
It came fron Germany in the latter half of the 1800s, up to the 1940s.
It was a German Chauvinist social movement where the Germans sought out a way to make themselves the center point of European history, as a contrast to the perception that Germany was a side show to the real story in France and Rome that was common before.
It got adopted by people today, because of Nazi LARPers that repeat anything they see that Nazis said or propagandized about.

If it wasn't for people that wished to be Hitler's best friend, Nordicism would be dead, because it was just a product of 19th century German nationalism, and not a serious field of historical study.
Anonymous No.18065881 >>18066887
>>18064167 (OP)
Well, it's not a myth. Ancient Greeks and Romans were white and then got muttified by predominantely Indian, East Iranian, and Sub Saharan geneflow mediated through Near Eastern traders (not those) over millennia.

Romans and Greeks before them held some incredibly steppe herder like tradition. When Romans spoke badly about the northern barbarians they didn't speak about race but fashion, urbanisation, and culture. While when speaking about the Southern civilisations they did often speak about race in the beginning and about Gods which they couldn't really interpret like they did with the Gauls and later Germans.

We have DNA from the ancient romans showing as much. They of course had more EEF and paleo European DNA but there is a noticeable shift toward the Eastern Mediterranean beginning in the late republic.
Anonymous No.18065884 >>18065937
>>18064337
>>18064345
>by AI
you fucking midwit copecel
Anonymous No.18065889 >>18066878
>>18064399
I never got this claim by meds. That nords don't have culture. the last 1500 years of human history have been defined almost exclusively by white people. no other race has managed to split the world between four nations. three of whom were ruled by very close family relations, which you could imagine were one unfortunate accident away from being ruled by the same person.
Anonymous No.18065894
>>18064580
IEs are inherently somewhat mongoloid because of ANE. afaik your average nord has 15-25% of clearly asiatic DNA through ANE.
any IE elite would represent this to some degree.
Anonymous No.18065921 >>18066247
>>18065854
Moshe, moshe, moshe, if it was pure propaganda, surely the heckin ebil Hitlerites would have made Germany the center, rather than Scandinavia.
Anonymous No.18065937
>>18065884
>they were Nordic AIIIEEEEEE
AI is not faceblind like you.
Anonymous No.18065951
>>18065845
i know that epigravettian is periodically false terminology, but idc.
cope, this is the truth.
Anonymous No.18066247 >>18067070
>>18065921
Scandinavia was seen as a cultural outpost for Germany, and it being comparatively underdeveloped versus Germany itself, lent credence to the idea that it carried the 'racial spirit' of the ancients most strongly.
There is also the undeniable fact that Germany was a melting pot of ethnicities in a way that they could more plausibly deny that Scandinavia wasn't. There's no way around the reality that Germany had tons of Slavic and Gallic and Italic influence, but the Scandinavians comparatively were more isolated, so they were more easily described as 'pure'.
There's also that the Norse myths were being widely read in German for the first time in this time period, and they were obviously Scandinavian and were the only real source for ancient Germanic beliefs out there. German mythology had to be estimated working backwards from what the Eddas contained, with some patchwork provided from works like the Nibelungenlied to try and add some continental character (this eventually culminating in the hybrids of Wagner).

Don't be a dullard.
The admission that Scandinavia retained more of the 'ancient Aryan character' than Germany itself was not something that German Chauvinists would have found worth crying over. Because Scandinavia was seen as within the German sphere of influence.
Anonymous No.18066878
>>18065889
>split the world between four nations
French and Iberians are not white
Anonymous No.18066887
>>18065881
>We have DNA from the ancient romans showing as much. They of course had more EEF and paleo European DNA but there is a noticeable shift toward the Eastern Mediterranean beginning in the late republic.
There are half east med guys in the Roman kingdom already.
And why do you ignore the fact ancient Greeks were middle easterners since the beginning?
Anonymous No.18067070 >>18067370
>>18066247
None of that explains why - if they were just lying anyway - they didn't invent central-Germanicism that placed them as the most important people, rather than make a neighboring people the most important one (when the alleged reason is to make themselves the most important).
You can easily imagine a propaganda piece that explains that the specific combination of racial traits in Germans makes them particularly suited to rule Europe. This btw is a lot closer to what many German NatSocs were saying at the time: many of them were simply German or Germanic "chauvinists", some of them were Nordicists, some of them were Western Europaboos, etc. It varied.
National chauvinism was the default back then. For the German scholars to identify an out-group to be chauvinistic about breaks the trend.
Anonymous No.18067370 >>18067481 >>18069934
>>18067070
The mixture hypothesis wouldn't work because it would be admitting that the French, Slavs, and Italians had interbred (often forcibly) with the Germans. Which would cut down the idea that Germany had a long and illustrious independent history. Which was the entire focus of the chauvinism.
Everyone knew that the French had dominated Germany at many times in history. Admitting that included sexual mixing, almost certainly rape, would be emotionally painful.
The Scandinavians weren't seen as a separate people, but as an extension of the Germans. An Indian reservation for the Aryans when the bulk of the population was centered in Germany that unfortunately had lost its purity but was working to regain it.

Let me reference the fairly deranged Anglo-Israelism, as an example of an ethnic supremacy movement that integrated another ethnicity in the mix.
Where the Anglos created a chauvinist movement that didn't even just empower a half-subjugated neighbor, but instead the Jewish people who lived on the other side of the continent.
Anonymous No.18067481 >>18067630
>>18067370
>The mixture hypothesis wouldn't work
The racial theories of the NSDAP did see Germans as a combination of different races though, so you're wrong. Look up the book translated as "SS Race Theory" for example.
https://library.frenschan.org/book/42
>The Scandinavians weren't seen as a separate people, but as an extension of the Germans.
May I see a source for this claim? Scandinavians are clearly Germanic, and were seen as such, but they were not seen as German to my knowledge.
>Anglo-Israelism
Completely different, in that the bongs here claimed that they had an equal share in israelite identity to the jews, making them co-equally israelites. Also, it's obvious psyop invented by jews to get the bongs to give them Palestine, so it's not really that comparable to an organic theory of race.
Anonymous No.18067489 >>18069924 >>18070433
>>18064185
The problem with this idea is that, even if genetic change did happen over millenia, it's not like ancient samples are any close to today's nordics.
Iron age Roman samples are closer to today's northern italians and Mediterranean coast Spaniards than to today's central and South Italians, sure, but they are still closer to today's South italians than to nordics.
This supposedly huge "mutting" over 2000 years amounts to the difference between an average guy from Rome today to a guy from Barcelona, not one from Oslo.
Anonymous No.18067501 >>18068329 >>18070424
>>18064167 (OP)
>Explain Nordicism

Sure, that is easy... The brown skinned, race mixed detritus inhabiting formally white regions are insecure and retarded, so they lash out at the their betters while trying to claim they have legitimacy. That is nordacism, a perverse projection and inversion of the truth, crafted by the dark to destroy the light.
Anonymous No.18067630 >>18067664
>>18067481
>Many people in our folk cannot be absolutely assigned to one or another race. In each folk are found – next to examples who are in appearance racially pure – the individual races in more or less mixed form....
>[But] The portion of Nordic blood in the hereditary makeup of the German folk is about 50%.
>Furthermore family trees teach us: EACH GERMAN HAS NORDIC BLOOD IN HIM. So the German folk is, in the truest sense of the word, a blood community....
>And there we determine: already just numerically the Reich marches far ahead of all other folks in respect to the Nordic portion.
>With natural right Germany can claim the leadership of the predominantly Nordic-Germanic folks.
From your link.
This is representative of the German view. It was undeniable that Germany is ethnically mixed. But the line was that Nordics made up the core bloodline of the nation that all had links back to regardless of any 'hybridizing'.
And that, regardless of that mixing, Germany as the strongest Germanic nation has leadership over the others. Including the Scandinavians.
They were purer, but they were also provincial and distant. Isolated and small in number compared to the empires of the continent. Germany consistently exerted significant political influence over the Scandinavian countries throughout the 1800s and early 1900s.

Attributing Anglo-Israelism to pure conspiracy is foolish. It obviously had true believers who worked to if from a Christian background.
The difference is that the Germans pushed aside Christianity to some extent and focused on pre-Christian times as a source for identity, while the Anglos dove deeply into Christian myth.
They used Christian myth as a background for justifying Anglo dominance over others, in the same way that German chauvinists used Nordic theory.
Similarly there was some 'kindness' paid to the Scandies in Anglo-Israeli ideology, where they were considered fellow descendants of the Lost Tribes.
Anonymous No.18067664 >>18070050 >>18070055
>>18067630
>From your link
Exactly. So assuming this book is even slightly representative of at least some of the NS German views (I have read others that support it), they saw themselves as a racially mixed nation. And you now agree that they did not see Scandinavia as part of Germany (although of course it is part of the greater Germanic world). Would you now not agree that it would have been preferential for German chauvinists to - if they were solely motivated by chauvisnism - to run with this optimal-race-cocktail theory rather than a pure Nordicist one?
>Attributing Anglo-Israelism to pure conspiracy is foolish. It obviously had true believers who worked to if from a Christian background.
There is absolutely no reason why psyops can't have true believers. Look at the Q thing for the magatards. Clearly that's a psyop, and clearly it has true believers.
>they were considered fellow descendants of the Lost Tribes.
By necessity, given that the Anglos, the Saxons, the Jutes and to a certain extent, the Normans are Nordics. It would have been impossible for the bongs to larp as israelites without also slandering the Nordics as israelites.
Anonymous No.18067673
>>18064362
>His mother, Anne-Louise Magdeleine de Gercy, was the daughter of a non-noble royal tax collector whose family lived in Haiti, which made him fear that he was mulatto. Magdeleine cucked Gobineau's father as his private tutor and took his sisters away prostituting/scamming to support themselves, which made Gobineau the butt of jokes among his fellow aristocrats. Despite despising his cuckold father, Gobineau married ClΓ©mence Gabrielle Monnerot, the woman his best friend, Pierre de Serre, got pregnant and abandoned her.
Anonymous No.18068329
>>18067501
Bait
Anonymous No.18069558
>>18064167 (OP)
unemployed swedish trolls and 19th century germans trying to change history
Anonymous No.18069924 >>18069961 >>18070000
>>18067489
It's pretty close
Anonymous No.18069934 >>18071618
>>18067370
More like the French got raped by the Germanics lol. Franks and such. Then Charlemagne's empire which continued in the HRE i.e. Germany.
The only clear times Germany was conquered was arguably by Napoleon (though ultimately defeated in the German campaign, with the biggest battle being the Battle of Nations), and obviously WW2, where Germany was thoroughly conquered, raped, and its soul defeated forever.
Anonymous No.18069961 >>18069966
>>18069924
no it isn't and the fact that you're using the regions heavily colonized by the greeks to prove a point is beyond pathetic. Kill yourself.
Anonymous No.18069966
>>18069961
I just picked two South Italian states. Campania and Calabria. Romans are almost equidistant from South Italians and Germans
Anonymous No.18069985
>>18064167 (OP)
the ancient romans and greeks were genetically identical to the sintashta
Anonymous No.18070000 >>18070009 >>18070053 >>18070550
>>18069924
G25 distances are bullshit.
Anonymous No.18070009 >>18070044
>>18070000
That doesn't really contradict anything...
Anonymous No.18070044 >>18070053
>>18070009
The distance of Sicilians/South Italians is much shorter on Fst. That shouldn't be possible.
Anonymous No.18070050
>>18067664
I did not say that the Germans believed themselves to be the most pure.
It would be impossible to claim because obviously Germany had a long history of invading or being invaded.
But Nordic theory relied on that backbone of heritage that they claimed proved German dominance over the world. That the Scandinavians held 'purer blood' was not an issue because they were a corraled group that were either made to work with German, or stay neutral.
If you can't claim purity, because objective reality makes that obviously impossible, then you can claim functional purity. You can't deny that the French raped their way across Germany multiple times. You couldn't deny that the Germans and Slavs had a long history of intermixing in the East. But you can say that regardless of that, the German people have a throughline of great Nordic blood that unites all members.

Your example for how the Anglo-Israelite adherents dragged the Scandinavians alongside them, is representative for the Germans.
Anonymous No.18070053
>>18070044
An easily spotted inconsistency: >>18070000 English are closer than Cretans on G25 but Cretans are closer on Fst. Sicilians should also be roughly the same distance as Albanians and closer than Romanians and Thessaly closer than French.
Anonymous No.18070055 >>18070226 >>18070245
>>18067664
I did not say that the Germans believed themselves to be the most pure.
It would be impossible to claim because obviously Germany had a long history of invading or being invaded. But the point was not to draw attention to it.
But Nordic theory relied on that backbone of heritage that they claimed proved German dominance over the world. That the Scandinavians held 'purer blood' was not an issue because they were a corralled group that were either made to work with German, or stay neutral.
If you can't claim purity, because objective reality makes that obviously impossible, then you can claim functional purity. You can't deny that the French influence on Germany. You couldn't deny that the Germans and Slavs had a long history of intermixing in the East. But you can say that regardless of that, the German people have a throughline of great Nordic blood that unites all members. You can deemphasize what type of influence the French invasions had and say that they were unimportant to the racial character of Germany. Or push down on the meaning of heavy Slavic-Germanic intermingling and what that would mean. The point wasn't to deny reality, but to press it down as unimportant to the key claims of the German chauvinists.

The mixture hypothesis would be embracing that influence, but that wasn't what the Germans wanted to do, because it was fairly shameful to them at the time.

Your example for how the Anglo-Israelite adherents dragged the Scandinavians alongside them, is representative for the Germans.
Anonymous No.18070226 >>18070245
>>18070055
>they were a corralled group that were either made to work with German, or stay neutral.
Except that this is not even sligthly accurate to Scandinavian-German historical relations.
>The mixture hypothesis would be embracing that influence, but that wasn't what the Germans wanted to do, because it was fairly shameful to them at the time.
But that IS what the NS did though. I'm not following you, it seems to me that you're going back and forth quite radically.
If the German Nordicist scholars were just straight propagandists, clearly they could have come up with a more German-centric Noble Lie instead of accepting a racial second place to the Nordic-Scandinavians. If the mixing theory (ie. NOT pure Nordicism) was shameful as you say, it wouldn't have been adopted by a German-chauvinist movement like NS unless they believed it true AND were willing to take the PR hit rather than lying.
>Your example for how the Anglo-Israelite adherents dragged the Scandinavians alongside them, is representative for the Germans.
I don't see how at all. Nordics are completely incidental to the bong we wuzzing, but are central to Nordicism (obviously).
Anonymous No.18070245 >>18070264
>>18070226
>>18070055
Hans Gunther the leading Nazi race expert wrote a book Der nordische Gedanke unter Den Deutschen pleading with the German people to gradually become more Nordic through only allowing blondes to breed. The race theorists of the Nazis had a word for it, Aufnordung (additional Nordicization). Hitler said in Table Talks that it made him happy to see how many more Nordic children were running around in Bavaria than before and that the SS could be sent to places where the racial material was insufficiently Nordic for improvement. They absolutely viewed non-Nordic phenotypes as a problem to be corrected after the war with breeding programs.
Anonymous No.18070264 >>18070276
>>18070245
I'm not suggesting they didn't favor Nordic aesthetics, they clearly did. But that's my whole point.
If a bunch of mestizos wanted to invent a race theory solely to make them look good, why the hell would they come up with Spanish supremacism. They'd just come up with hybrid vigor mestizo supremacism.
Anonymous No.18070276 >>18070421
>>18070264
It wasn't just aesthetic, they believed that people with those features constituted a separate "Nordic race" that should have reseeded all of Germany with their genetics replacing other people.
Anonymous No.18070421
>>18070276
Yes, I know, that's the Nordicism being discussed.
>replaced
More like bleaching than replacing, but that's arguably semantics on a long enough timeline.
Anonymous No.18070424
>>18067501
>The brown skinned, race mixed detritus inhabiting formally white regions are insecure and retarded, so they lash out at the their betters while trying to claim they have legitimacy. That is nordacism, a perverse projection and inversion of the truth, crafted by the dark to destroy the light.
/thread
Anonymous No.18070428
Ugh, projection bros?
Anonymous No.18070433 >>18070530 >>18070540
>>18064185
If anything Italians became more "pale" from all the germanic invasions. Genetic studies on original latins show they were darker then modern italians and closest to south italians today

>>18064167 (OP)
As for greeks, they were always dark caucasians, classical greece is founded on mix between neolithic farmers and yamnaya, both dark haired and dark eyed grouops

>>18067489
actually 4/6 were closest to central and north iralians and 2 were closer to south. All in all, romans genetically today cluster more with south then north italains

as for appearance

>For Iron Age/Republic period, the eye color is blue in 27% of the examined and dark in the remaining 73%. Hair color is 9% blond or dark blond and 91% dark brown or black. The skin color is intermediate for 82%, intermediate or dark for 9% and dark or very dark for the remaining 9%.[90]

these are higher dark features then in modern italains
Anonymous No.18070442 >>18070462 >>18070479 >>18075548
>>18064307
Steppe from ancient greeks comes straight from Yamnaya, who were dark haired and dark eyed with olive skin (mostly)
Anonymous No.18070457
>>18064233
not really, but even if so, why is that nordic? blue eyes were spread by WHG, white skin by EEF and CHG and blonde hair mostly by EHG. Where's the nordics in this?
Anonymous No.18070462
>>18064326
PIE that settled greece were darker then modern greeks, indo-aryans had lighter features but they didnt settle greece, they settled south asia.. but even if, what does that have to do with nordics?

see>>18070442
Anonymous No.18070479 >>18070701 >>18074678
>>18070442
greeks didn't have literal direct yamnaya ancestry, it was still mediated
Anonymous No.18070496
macedonians were nordic before phillip conquered the greeks and subsequent admixture and dilution happened
Anonymous No.18070530 >>18072968
>>18070433
>Genetic studies on original latins show they were darker then modern italians and closest to south italians today
Why are you lying? Everyone here knows Latins i.e. iron age central Italians are closest to modern North Italians, Spaniards (specially North Spaniards), and South French.
Anonymous No.18070532 >>18072953
Literally read your own primary sources.
Anonymous No.18070540 >>18070550 >>18072968
>>18070433
>Genetic studies on original latins show they were darker then modern italians and closest to south italians today
no actually it shows they were closest to Spaniards and South French.
There is only one sample type that clusters with south italy and its slaves from latin africa.
Anonymous No.18070550 >>18070671
>>18070540
They're closest to North Italians on Fst and the distance to Sicilians/South Italians is not as big there as it is on G25: >>18070000
Anonymous No.18070671 >>18070689 >>18075641
>>18070550
I'm convinced G25 is anti terroni propaganda given Davidski's online history and the fact that it doesn't match other tools' results. PCAs have inherent inaccuracies but you can create greater biases if you anchor it in certain ways instead of letting the software handle it, as he surely did. PCA is highly multidimensional data compressed to lower dimensions, it's the same problem as projections of the globe on a flat surface. No projection is perfect, some will be more accurate in other regions than others. And in Greece and Southern Italy, the inaccuracies of G25 are severe. The distances are also much greater than I've seen in SmartPCA and according to FST distances.
Anonymous No.18070689
>>18070671
Yeah, I think that becomes clear when you look at those North Macedonia distances in particular. South Italians have a shorter distance to it than Northerners on Fst yet that's not the case on G25.
Anonymous No.18070701
>>18070479
they did from catacomb culture which is yamnaya 2.0 same appearance as they didnt mix with northern farmers whg like cwc
Anonymous No.18071208
I could kill most of you with my bare hands.
Anonymous No.18071292
>>18064167 (OP)
The general narrative is was that Ottomans/ Turks browned up the Greek peninsular, and the only reason modern Greeks look the way they are is because of that admixture, meaning they were more "European" or "White" in the past
In reality Turkey was never really Turk'd as much as people think, and modern Turks (in the west of the country) basically have the same Greek/ Balkan ancestry.
Historians used to just assume that if a language is widespread in an area then the people are true representations of the people that used to speak it, but in reality a language can just gain a foothold in an area from a small conquering people then spread easily among the native population, this is what happened in Romania and Hungary as well, neither of those populations are properly Roman nor Magyar to a huge degree.
Anonymous No.18071618 >>18072025
>>18069934
The Frankish nobility was absorbed by the Romance speaking majority pretty quick.
By the time the Oaths of Strasbourg were written, French was already a court language. Within a generation of Charlemagne.
France continuously held a dominant position over Germany for most of the Middle Ages into the modern period. By the time of Phillip Augustus, the French were already fighting to play kingmaker in the Holy Roman Empire due to their stronger position. And past that point as the HRE continued to decentralize, France was stronger. Particularly after the Hundred Years War. Eventually to the point where the French were able to intervene with impunity in German affairs like the 30 Years War.
Anonymous No.18072025
>>18071618
Oh sure, but that's not conquest.
Anonymous No.18072953
>>18070532
That's literally the point. I read and found no mention of any real blue-eyed Greeks, and only three of them were light-haired (by med standards). There are way more mentions of brown-eyed and dark-haired north European figures in your sources.
Anonymous No.18072968 >>18073179
>>18070530
>>18070540
No he'is right, Romans were central Italian tier at best in sense of pigmentation. Genetic distance is irrelevant here. GAC resemble Sardinians but were much lighter.
Anonymous No.18073179 >>18074734
>>18072968
Who cares about pigmentation? That's a few alleles here and there. Genetic related-ness is much more important for classifying and for we-wuzzing-validity. Romans are genetically closest to West Meds. Makes sense; look at how nice, beautiful, clean and storied North Italy is.
Anonymous No.18074678
>>18070479
They had
Anonymous No.18074725 >>18074740
>>18064167 (OP)
From the Ancient Greeks themselves. They wrote about the Dorian invasion.

Do any of you swarthy resentful people that seek to both deracinate and then lionize ancient European cultures ever actually read any works by them?

And civilization obviously peaked with them right? Never mind that the average living standards at its peak were about the same as people who live in the most uncivilized shitholes we have today.
Anonymous No.18074734
>>18073179
Where is it stated by the Greeks that the Dorians were Nordic? That's purely 20th century Germ autism.
Anonymous No.18074740 >>18074754
>>18074725
Where is it stated by the Greeks that the Dorians were Nordic? That's purely 20th century Germ autism.
Anonymous No.18074754 >>18074845
>>18074740
It doesn't because "Nordic" is a relatively modern term. It does say that they were from north of the Peloponnese and Ionians originally, settled it and formed the ruling class there. They were generally described by the Greeks themselves as being taller, sturdier, and fairer than the Ionians. That's where the idea originally comes from.

Read a fucking book.
Anonymous No.18074780
pic rel is a northern italian.
Anonymous No.18074845 >>18074849
>>18074754
I don't remember ever reading anything about Spartans being fairer than Athenians, but them being taller and more muscular could be just related to their diet and training. These "Deep_Mani" samples from Greece are probably the closest thing to them in the modern age and it's much less northern than the Arvanite/Slav mutts in the rest of the Peloponnese. Maniots claim descent from Spartans.
Anonymous No.18074849 >>18074868
>>18074845
Mycenae is pre-Dorian, pre-classical greece
Anonymous No.18074868 >>18074874
>>18074849
We don't have Classical Greece samples yet, but I would expect 'Dorians' to be similar to "Deep_Mani" as well, i.e not very northern. Definitely less than the Thracians/Illyrians who are already pretty Southern.
Anonymous No.18074874
>>18074868
You shouldn't

The ethnic composition was significantly different enough that it was repeatedly commented on
Anonymous No.18075009 >>18075052
we have classi al greeks samples of sicily and Spain and they are identical to myceneans. Why are you mentally ill? Why do you keep going with your baseless lies?
Anonymous No.18075052 >>18075059
>>18075009
You got raped by niggers. It's a fact you delusional muhammadan
Anonymous No.18075059
>>18075052
why are you mentally ill? You have no connection to j2a/r1b z2103 ancient greeks
Anonymous No.18075548
>>18070442
Too CHG. The real deal Yamnaya looked like this.
Anonymous No.18075570
Direct WHG is the reason why Medjeets are Browner than Arap and Kavkaz
Anonymous No.18075586
Holy shiet, Araplar > Medjeetas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbL5K7jmwOc
Anonymous No.18075601
according to oera linda book all white people (and also christianity) comes from Atlantis which is located in "the north seas", hard to say what they meant by that but i think our old friend mr mercator may have a clue.
Anonymous No.18075621
>>18064167 (OP)
I misread that as Seleuco_I_Netorare
Anonymous No.18075641
>>18070671
>I'm convinced G25 is anti terroni propaganda given Davidski

But why, what could compel a pole living in australia to act in such manner
Anonymous No.18075645
>>18064984
Greekjeet, you cope and tell me that EHG/Yamnaya/CWC/BBC isn't the source of IE. But R1b-L21 spoke Italo-Celtic. How does it make you feel, Greekjeet?

R1b-L21:
"The lineage reached a frequency of 90% in early Bronze Age Britain (being nearly absent in contemporary samples from the continent), it gradually declined through the Middle Bronze Age to 70% by the Iron Age (due to continental migrations which also increased the levels of EEF admixture among Britons). It later fell to its modern levels in Britain after the Anglo-Saxon invasions."
"Apparently, therefore, L21 did not originate in Britain but instead originated on the Continent in the nearby Netherlands, Northwestern Germany or Jutland, probably among the Single Grave Corded Ware people, from whom the "steppe" Beaker people were descended. When early Beaker men departed for the shores of Britain, some of them were already derived for L21."
Anonymous No.18075664
>Tatar schizo spam
Anonymous No.18075668
Why are you Browner than Araps, Greekjeet?
Why did you larp as Crimean Tatar, Greekjeet?
Are you insecure about your race, Greekjeet?
Anonymous No.18075674
Will you now make WHG White as fuck, Greekjeet? You're Brown as fuck and something has to account for this. Browner than Araplar and Kavkazmen.
Anonymous No.18075687
How do Medjeets feel when their H(ermosas) speak Indo-Asian R(apist)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeMNLFY7pEQ