Thread 18066061

Why do people say communism failed when it has had historically positive results and only turned bad once literally all international Jewish finance turned against it to snuff it out. If it had been allowed to take root would we be living in a utopia today?

>>18066061 (OP)
Because draining the Aral Sea, killing millions of people in a famine and purges, and causing Chernobyl aren't great things to celebrate.
Also, Stalin was a pedophile. He fucked kids, So did Beria, You fuck kids, most likely.

>>18066061 (OP)
>Why do people say communism failed
Rich Jewish pedophiles who hate you and engineer economic downturn so they can buy up all the land aren't "people".

>>18066061 (OP)
what happens if you carry this trend out beyond 5 years?

>>18066106
The OP posted the result of the very first Five-Years Plan. The second one was actually even more successful, believe it or not. It turned the USSR into the second largest industrial power in the world.

>>18066110
And yet it was still poorer and a worse place to live in for it's entire existence than all those other countries.

>>18066120
But they had way better industrial output, education, scientific advancement, military capabilities, and infrastructure than everyone except for the USA though

>>18066135
So why'd it collapse?

>>18066138
Because 90% of the world was international Jewish capitalists and launched a Cold War against them literally

>>18066138
Internal flaws (the power of the party could be turned on the people at large, once the revolutionary generation died out and was replaced by social climbing apparatchiks) and foreign pressure.
Hopefully China learned from the failures of the Soviet model.

>>18066161
>Internal flaws
Like it being a shithole
>China learned from the failures of the Soviet model.
Oh yeah they definitely learned from the ussr they abandoned communism entirely and became capitalist

Anyone know the name of the guy who was an English-German psychologist or philosopher from the early 1900s? Think he lived in Kent or Brighton?

>>18066169
Nvm found him it was Houston Stewart Chamberlain

>>18066168
>Oh yeah they definitely learned from the ussr they abandoned communism entirely and became capitalist
China is not capitalist. They are a socialist market economy.

>>18066173
>They are a socialist market economy.
No such thing.
China is just capitalist but with heavy state oversight so state capitalism if you will.
Corporatism might also be a good word to describe china's economic system.

>>18066073
Jews did wtc, as they did captialism.

>>18066173
>They are a socialist market economy.
No such thing.
China is just capitalist but with heavy state oversight and control so state capitalism if you will.

>>18066073
>Because draining the Aral Sea
Lake Tulare was the largest body of freshwater west of the Mississippi for thousands of years until americans settled west and cultivated the flat grounds of Cali to sell fruits. Gonna bitch about that too? This is just apart of industrialization, you want farms to be productive enough to produce surpluses so ypu can buy capital? You end up harming the enviornment.

>>18066061 (OP)
now do value of industrial output
>USSR-0
>oy vey we drained the Aral Sea for nothing goyimrades

>>18066073
I was thinking of the Aral sea too
get out of my head

>>18066061 (OP)
>why
because
COMMUNISM IS THE WORST

>>18066160
international jewish capitalists are the ones who created ussr
if they're the ones who killed it off as you claim, they were simply correcting their mistake

>>18066200
Yes Karl Marx, infamous international capitalist that literally never worked a job in his entire life created communism by accident or something.

>>18066110
And then what happened

>>18066212
Victory in WW2 and taking over all of eastern europe.

>>18066217
Oh

>>18066211
>Karl Marx created an ideology that existed before his birth
This your mind on anti-communist retardation

>>18066187
>Harming the environment is good because capitalists do it too
So killing communists is fine because the US does it too

>>18066211
Who funded lenin my naive anon friend?
Who made sure Stalin got enough arms and ammunition to ethnically cleanse Germans with? Lend-Lease rings a bell? Yeah the Kaiser was duped into providing some railway assistance and it seemed to work in his favor until it all collapsed as they knew it would but the Prussians were too obstinate to give up especially after the easy Eastern Front victory so the Amerigolem had to be brought in after Balfour and a very convenient false flag
Go ahead, call me out

>>18066227
> Who funded lenin my naive anon friend?
None of the countries on this map dumbass

>>18066187
But farms in the USSR were never productive, retard. That's why a famine happened and why relied on imported grain.

any sort of state lead modernization campaign of an unindustrialized society would net positive results. especially when somebody's already done the homework for you

>>18066232
The Soviet Union tried to spread International Communist revolution, retard. Attacking the USSR was morally justified. They were trying to create a land bridge to Germany to mass murder Christians until Poland saved the world by stopping them at the Vistulu

>>18066233
They were literally productive after they killed the kulak Jews that burned crops and sabotaged farms and tried to smuggle all the crops to Germany. Thats why famine stops at 1948. If it was a systemic failure then famine would have continued.

>>18066232
you have some learning to do
https://themillenniumreport.com/2018/07/the-nyc-and-london-banker-who-financed-the-bolshevik-revolution/

Failed systems always blame external "saboteurs" instead of their own fatal flaws. If your utopia can be derailed by a single conspiracy, it was never a viable design to begin with.

>>18066237
But you claimed international capitalists funded this earlier you retard so which is it

>>18066241
>the millennium report
No thanks I will stick to historical documents and primary sources not daily wire sloppa

>>18066240
>Productive
Causing a famine and allowing people to starve to death is not productive. Stalin executed those responsible for the 1937 census to conceal the deaths resulting from his policies.

Throughout history, Russia has experienced famines with fewer fatalities, yet the Soviet famine resulted in at least 5 to 6 times more deaths than natural famines in the country. This discrepancy can only be explained by Soviet policies.

>>18066187
I'm not him but I will bitch about both. Regardless of ideology I don't think people should be draining massive bodies of water too build cotton farms or apple orchards.

I think they could've been better utilised & a local industrialised economy could've been set up faster if the governments of each didn't decide to up production on something elsewhere by a smaller margin instead of properly putting resources into a new investment. Now because of their retardation we have floods on one hand or desertification on the other.

Imagine if today California had that huge lake to use for a tourism economy in addition to potential fishing. Now it just houses fields worked on by cheap imported labour. Same with the Aral Sea, except that'd hold potential tourism, fishing, agricultural uses. Now it has none of those industries so a different country like Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan can have more cotton.

>>18066243
Why are you denying the fact the USSR invaded Poland, Finland, Lithuania and Hungary to establish communist governments there? And why are you leaving out members of the Communist International, a soviet organization, carried out a coup on the German government in 1919?
If anything, the invasion of the Soviet Union was a defensive war against an imperialist power.

>>18066245
Brainlet response
the author quoted was an academic
go fuck yourself lying jew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_C._Sutton

>>18066246
If the policies were flawed the famines would continue but they didn’t so I’m still not sure what your point is. Once the traitors were killed it was smooth sailing (relatively speaking, since international Jews aka 90% of the world blockaded them and interfered with their trade)

>>18066260
Retard, the famine was caused by Stalin's push for collectivization. And no traitors were killed. Khrushchev rehabilitated them because it was all just lies and show trials. Even the Russian government doesn't deny it, retard.

>>18066061 (OP)
>international Jewish finance
Every time I see someone use this term, it always just boils down to France/America/UK. It's pretty obvious that you're all just seething shitskins who can't admit you got btfo by old school colonial powers.

>>18066268
You don’t have any source, and all historical figures prove you wrong.

>>18066269
It’s Caesar’s fault for not dealing with the gaul problem definitively. These vermin are natural slaves and gravitate towards slave religions like Christianity and would do anything for Jews.

>>18066272
>You don't have any source
Actual Russians aren't a source, lmao.

>>18066279
You’re in tears. Notice how I am posting historical data and you’re posting some libcuck article.

>"We construct large, unique panel data to study the causes of Ukrainian famine mortality
(Holodomor) during 1932-33 and document several new facts: i) Ukraine (the Soviet Union)
produced enough food in 1932 to avoid famine in Ukraine (the Soviet Union); ii) mortality was
increasing in the pre-famine ethnic Ukrainian population share and unrelated to food productivity
across regions; iii) this pattern exists across the Soviet Union, even outside of Ukraine; iv) the
pattern was similar at different administrative levels; v) migration restrictions exacerbated
mortality; vi) actual and planned grain procurement were increasing, while actual and planned
grain retention (production minus procurement) were decreasing in the ethnic Ukrainian
population share across regions. Anti-Ukrainian bias in Soviet policy explains up to 92% of
famine mortality in Ukraine and 77% in Ukraine, Russia and Belarus; approximately half of the
total effect comes from bias in the centrally planned food procurement policy."
https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w29089/w29089.pdf
>>18066284
You didn't historical data. You just made a bullshit claim about the kulaks burning their crops, causing the famine, without proof or even source.

>>18066289
Wrong as usual yawn

>>18066258
Oh noes all the republics were actually paid +/- 10% of what native Russians made omg

>>18066061 (OP)
> historically positive results
You mean like the Holodomor? Great Leap Forward that led to the biggest famine in human history? Khmer Rouge killing fields? The constant shortages of basic goods, the secret police, the Berlin Wall to keep people in?

>>18066298
Like being an international superpower lols you’re on a history board without knowing history

>>18066295
Your own source says they "did not stop the exports" and its cropped you don't want to post the rest of it that blames Soviet policy for it, lol.

>>18066302
Russia would've been even stronger without communism.

>>18066296
All those countries are richer than Russia so that can't be the case my dude

>>18066316
All countries life expectancy rose in the 90s with medicine though

>>18066316
It obviously did poorly and is crap now.

>>18066324
Medicine wasn't developed between 1961 and 1990 when life expectancy was stagnate, retard?

>>18066324
>>18066331
You have a strange understanding of "medicine". Reason is boomers died and stopped being degenerate.

>>18066333
Dying boomers or don't explain don't explain 40 years of stagnate life expectancy rates. You're really fucking dumb bro

>>18066341
I’m sure all the war veterans didn’t have a lower life expectancy, neither did the Chernobyl victims. You’re dumb as a rock sis

>>18066349
Yes, nobody died between 1961 and 1990. That makes perfect sense bud.

>>18066355
Yawn, point out to me on this graph where the communism touched you?

>>18066367
>The population of Russia decreased when countries left it
Wow that's really deep

>>18066371
You were talking about mass deaths between 1960-1990 right?

>>18066387
There were no mass deaths. Just emigration.

>>18066389
There were. Everyone died of meth (like today in the first world). And, today people die of the vax. It's a meaningless comparison.
Most people would see the issue as finding ways to die asap.

>>18066061 (OP)
> implying the 100 million+ body count was just "international finance"
> muh kulaks deserved it, holodomor was just growing pains
Every single attempt at communism ends in famine, secret police and mass graves regardless of who's funding it. Cope and seethe tankie, your utopia is a mass grave.

>>18066586
>muh 100 trillion
Americans are famously gullible, never forget the 6 gorillion Jews and 12 billion polacks too

>>18066311
lmao it became the 2nd most powerful country in the world for a century

Stalin's incompetence caused famine due to his Communist agricultural policies and mass death to the Germans on the Eastern Front

>>18066612
So capitalist countries have never had famines or mismanagement? Interesting. Capitalism must be so perfect.

>>18066618
You will never find anyone defending capitalism.
The objections to communism are entirely related to its crimes not economics and Jews run their system sensibly for what they want.

>>18066618
Communist agriculture was so bad that they starved with the best soil in the world, they had worse yield than the Russian Empire with tractors and much higher technology, and after Communism ended agricultural yield in Russia and Ukraine surged again.

>>18066630
I was posting what you're posting now years ago.

>>18066631
And how did you become a Communist?

>>18066634
I'm not, I'm just proposing that your arguments are based on fallacious grounds that you yourself don't really believe in. If you compare the two's performance over a length of time that is fair, but if you say that capitalism is better because it is well managed and never has shortages then that is just plain wrong.

>>18066061 (OP)
Honestly, Communism worked well in the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc only because they have abundant hydroelectric energy, oil and gas, and iron deposits. And a bunch of very intelligent scientists and engineers
If a country like Guatemala, Laos, or Burkina Faso tries communism it will fail because they're too dependent on the capitalist global trade system to make modern goods
Overall, the Dengist approach is the most realistic approach to achieving and maintaining a socialist state. If the Soviet Union partially liberalized like Deng but maintained the Party's leading role in society it would still be around.
The thing is that the Soviet bureaucratic class was afraid of change after Khruschev, Hungary, and Czechslovak revolts and wasn't visionary enough. They weren't able to exploit their advantages to pull ahead of the western world

The Soviet Union had a scientist called Viktor Glushkov that was very innovative and forward thinking, who proposed a national computer network 15 years before ARPANET, thought about electronic system of payments, and began an automation of production in steel mills, computerized supply chains, and economic statistics calculation. His ideas were never fully funded because it could detect corruption and stop embezzling of state products. If the Soviet Union spent more on computers and less on conventional forces it could have emerged as a global leader of computing

>>18066061 (OP)
>per cent of 1929
do you not understand basic mathematics you absolute retard

imagine you produce 10 tons of steel per year then open a steel plant that produces 100t, that's an increase of 1000%, now imagine your neighbor produces 1000t then increases production by 100t, it is an increase of 10%, but your neighbor is still producing far more than you

this principle applies here, Russia was an agrarian economy unlike the industrialized US, France, Britain and Germany at the time

>>18066703
Indeed. Russia was catching up rapidly under the Tsar. That's why the communists had very little peasant support. The revolution was connected Jews, high finance and a few factions. Even after civil war its own people repeatedly rebelled against it. However, those rebels had no international connections and couldn't even make the newspapers in the west. The Nazis knew all this of course which is why they're so anti communist. Communism is completely fake.

>>18066183
Dont forget the fact that theyre ethnically homogenous. China proves that ethnic national socialism works. International communism though? Thats for kikes.

>>18066061 (OP)
>Why do people say communism failed when it has had historically positive results and only turned bad once literally all international Jewish finance turned against it to snuff it out.
>Why do people say communism failed when international Jewish finance snuffed it out.
>Why do people say communism failed when it failed.

The goal of communist movement was to destroy that international finance. The Soviet communist project failed. Now we have Chinese instead.

>>18067172
>Russia was catching up rapidly under the Tsar.
Russia was becoming a fucking colony under Tsar. Everything was owned by foreigners.

>>18066703
its not percent increase you absolute retard. learn to fucking read before criticizing the stats
its using how much steel each country produced in 29 as the unit of measurement. for every 100 tons of steel the us produced in 29, it produced 65 tons in 33. every country listed but the ussr showed a 15-35% decrease while the soviets were able to quickly grow. that's the whole point of the stats

>>18067172
Nazis were so anti Communist that Ludendorff (a Nazi) sent the Bolsheviks to Russia with support

>>18066135
>they had way better industrial output
Depends. For half-finished industrial materials and heavy machinery? They were second only to America, though only because they had the economy of scale and the indigenous resources for that type of thing. But for consumer electronics, automobiles, pharmaceuticals, et cetera? They never caught up with the rest of the industrialized world, so their population had a much lower standard of living throughout the USSR's existence.

>scientific advancement
They were also deficient in that respect, always catching up to everyone else.

>military capabilities
The only reason they weren't steamrolled by Germany is because the United States propped them up. Without American aid, if they hadn't already fallen militarily, they would have been starved into submission by the winter of 1942-1943, because by that point most of the USSR's population depended on American food aid.

>infrastructure
That was pretty mediocre, though. A lot of outdated, dangerous, low-quality stuff, enough for basic transport but not for a modern economy. And certainly not better than anything you'd find in Britain, France or Germany!

>>18066061 (OP)
>Why do people say communism failed
In terms of growth it succeeded in large countries like soviet union and china. Their industrial outputs grew at a higher rate clearly, however the propaganda focuses on comparing say established far richer and developed eocnomies of usa or uk to ussr, japan to china. Pointing out result of look, they're actually more poor. I think it's partially why the universities have so many socialists, it takes education or somewhat an intelligent mind to understand the progress and not judge based on purely result when the starting points were not equal.

>>18067652
>because the United States propped them up.
Total lend lease was around 5% of USSR military industrial output, if not less. So no
>And certainly not better than anything you'd find in Britain, France or Germany!
Do you even understand what infrastructure is and how challenging and inefficient it is to build infrastructure when your population centers are spread out over such a landmass. Its like saying that Singapore has better infrastructure than USA, therefore USA is shit and backward whilst the Chinese superior brain builds better or whatever

>>18067895
The lend lease was necessary in covering their caloric requirements and ammunition. This was a crucial part of the planning for Barbarossa and it is part of the reason why Germany fought so hard even as the tide turned against them.

>>18066073
Didn't you get the memo? Fucking kids is based and trad now Trump does it.

>>18068857
I really doubt Stalin or any other Soviet leader had sex with anyone.

>>18068858
Stalin probably didn't but, by all accounts, Beria did. Each were both their own flavor of sadist though.

>>18066061 (OP)
Unsure. The communist party still persists in china, and we certainly don't live in a utopia, yet at the same time development in china is vastly outpacing the rest of the world. China themselves say they don't anticipate they can start the transition from what they're doing now to communism until 2050 or so, and even then they probably wouldn't be exporting it.
Utopia is the wrong goal when talking about communism. This is basically looking at it like a religion and discards reality. The reality is that capitalism will become less and less able to make productive developments due to its nature, and a revolutionary change in the mode of production is needed to break these elements of its nature. Marx identified the abolition of private property, leading to a stateless, moneyless, and classless society as the key path forward. Those words though have a lot of nuance behind them, and you really need to read theory to figure out what they mean. The path towards this within the economic core is also unknown and requires experimentation to figure out.
>>18066195
Referencing the black book of communism is pretty intellectually dishonest, they literally made shit up and did shit like counting the Nazis in WWII as "victims of communism"

>>18068866
>Beria did
>Source: Beria's political opponents

>>18068884
Sure but why would they make up his penchant for children considering all the other crazy and criminal stuff he did? If the secret speech that Khrushchev gave was enough to get people to not look into the death of Stalin, then no one needed convincing that the NKVD chief was not exactly a scrupulous individual; i.e a political lie seems improbable.

>>18068851
>The lend lease was necessary in covering their caloric requirements and ammunition
Yeah, thats like providing a few bolts to a car and then claiming that the car wouldnt be built without bolts. They'd just find a workaround by sacrificing production in other spheres and focusing on areas you provided for. You mentioned wrong areas anyway. Most crucial lend-lease imports were trucks and aviation fuel

>>18066135
>the people who survived communism are less likely to denounce it
gee whiz, they were the politburo who could do whatever they wanted

>>18066061 (OP)
>Left Wing Pigs steal a country, torture millions of people, kill millions more, crush the soul of their own people, all to industrialize it

>Chad Americans outdo them with zero effort, laugh at them because they can't even grow crops correctly

>Engage in a "war" against the West in which Left Wing Pigs lose literally every single engagement and then collapse

>Americans retcon them into having been cool in movies because to show them as they actually were would've been too pathetic to countenance

Communism is the most embarassing catastrophe of an ideology to ever exist lol. No other group of people have ever eaten shit harder, and got cucked harder. And this is what they've got, "Hey we did a horribly incompetent job industrializing, collapsed within a century, and now we're all shit eating trannies and furries, but the number went up in the very beginning!"

>>18066217
And then what happened?