Thread 18066781

I don't know that much about the Aztecs but the very fact that the thing most people think of as the "super remarkable once-in-forever event" actually happened twice and even almost back to back with each other should cast suspicion on how remarkable the conquests really are. Oftentimes it seems like the native empires are the ones at a disadvantage, especially on the battlefield, considering the Spaniards have better armor, steel weapons, guns (I know they weren't useful that often but at certain crucial points like at Cajamarca they were important for spreading fear), and horses. The natives seemed to have no effective reply for horses (especially early on) unless they had a preplanned trap on the worst horse terrain possible, but tactics like these weren't going to win the whole war. One of the dominant themes of the conquest of Peru (not so sure about Mexico but I imagine it's similar) is that horses are nearly invulnerable even on relatively poor horse terrain, even the heavy body of the horse itself is a weapon for stomping down Indians and when you have an armored, highly mobile Spaniard on horseback with a long, steel-tipped lance tearing through native armor with ease it's nearly impossible for him to be stopped. For instance you have Quizu Yupanqui's massive assault on Lima rapidly and utterly collapsing when the Spaniards do a horse charge and most of the Inca nobility present are just immediately killed. Mind you, Quizu Yupanqui was the guy who completely obliterated multiple mounted Spanish forces prior with traps, but when it came to fighting on flatter ground the battle was basically a foregone conclusion. This isn't to mention the use of mobility outside of combat that horses provide, since they can outrun native on-foot communication easily which opens up a lot of opportunities to shock them before they know what's going on.
(cont.)

(cont.)
Obviously there are also the domestic situations of the empires and the regional politics the Spaniards found they could exploit. The Incas just got done with a civil war and it was an obvious step to ally with the opposing side to take down the winner and go from there. So they attained many thousands of native allies to help even out the numbers disparity. When you consider the support from allies and the immense battlefield advantage from horses and steel the Spaniards had it really doesn't seem that surprising that they were able to pull the conquests off. Sometimes it seems almost inevitable that they were going to win. The main issue was when they had newly arrived and were vulnerable to being killed off by the emperor who they had to figure out how to capture, but after they cleared this up via deceit things were pretty good to go in a lot of respects.

Very impressive. Everything else is cope because it’s an extreme level of White excellence.

>>18066781 (OP)
Rodeleros were the most disciplined soldiers in Europe at the time. The tactical genius is always severely underappreciated by historians who opt for the idea that they just zerg rushed Tenochtitlan using their more numerous indian allies. It was even more epic and impressive than what wimpy priests write about later on.
>>18066801
>anachronisms
retarded /pol/tranny

Bump

>>18066801
Conquistators were brown Moor rapebabies from Andalusia and Extremadura and also very often Jews/crypto-Jews.

>>18066781 (OP)
Quite impressive considering Cortés conquered the Aztecs entirely on it's own, he left Cuba with a handful of soldiers against the orders of the governor of Cuba, he wasn't supposed to do it and had no support from the king but somehow he did it

>>18066781 (OP)
Incredibly Impressive.
I'd say it was the Great Feat of the Modern Age.
Persia was in a total state of decadence too when Alexander conquered it and yet it's remembered as something impossible to accomplish

>>18067753
Not only did he defeat the Aztecs but also the men Cuba's governor sent to detain him.

Also, when he landed in Mexico, ordered to burn his ships and hence the phrase "The boats are burning" was born, meaning the point of no return

>>18066781 (OP)
It really all depends on how highly you hold the Aztecs and Incas to be as formidable enemies to the conquistadors. So in order to lionize the Conquistadors you have to ultimately vouch for the Indios.

>>18067797
>Also, when he landed in Mexico, ordered to burn his ships and hence the phrase "The boats are burning" was born, meaning the point of no return

Reminds me of the Umayyad army landing in Gibraltar to conquer Spain

>>18067818
Quite different, Ummayads where invited (we can make an analogy with the current state of the West if you like)

>>18067818
As a Spaniard I am actually grateful for the Ummayad conquest. They replaced the inferior and foreign Gothic kingdom with Al Andalus which was far more prosperous than the entirety of the west and also mogged the nafris mutts who lived in poverty and chaos on the other side of the strait of gibraltar.

>>18067851
>As a Spaniard I am actually grateful for the Ummayad conquest.
Moroccoal detected

>>18067864
I was just saying that morocco was full of nafri mutts living in poverty and chaos (which it was) while the iberian built al andalus was prospering.

>>18067864
>>18067870
Cope.

>The Mozarabs (from Arabic: مُسْتَعْرَب, romanized: musta‘rab, lit.'Arabized'), or more precisely Andalusi Christians, were the Christians of al-Andalus, or the territories of Iberia under Muslim rule from 711 to 1492. Following the Umayyad conquest of the Visigothic Kingdom in Hispania, the Christian population of much of Iberia came under Muslim control

>Initially, the vast majority of Mozarabs kept Christianity and their dialects descended from Latin. Gradually, the population converted to Islam—an estimated 50% by the year 951 —and was influenced, in varying degrees, by Arab customs and knowledge, and sometimes acquired greater social status in doing so. The local Romance vernaculars, with an important contribution of Arabic and spoken by Christians and Muslims alike, are referred to as Andalusi Romance (also called Mozarabic language). Mozarabs were mostly Catholics of the Visigothic or Mozarabic Rite. Due to Sharia and fiqh being confessional and only applying to Muslims, the Christians paid the jizya tax, the only relevant Islamic law obligation, and kept Roman-derived, Visigothic-influenced civil law

>Most of the Mozarabs were descendants of local Christians and were primarily speakers of Romance varieties under Islamic rule. They also included those members of the former Visigothic ruling elite who did not convert to Islam or emigrate northwards after the Muslim conquest. Spanish Christians initially portrayed Muslims primarily as military or political enemies, but with time, Islam came to be seen as a religion and not merely a threat. Spanish Christians sought to discourage apostasy from Christianity and to defend Christian beliefs, but they increasingly became connected to the dar al-Islam (land of Islam), through shared culture, language, and regular interaction

>>18067886
Spaniard Balearicus gem

>>18066781 (OP)
Extremely impressive and I say that as a Native Indian that is Mexican. They crossed a whole ocean on ships and navigated without a GPS. We all started from the same time and they were more advanced than us. I think they are the reason some of our Mexican women have fat juicy asses and the ones with Spanish ties have bigger dicks. Crossing an ocean takes big balls. They did it before the English and other Europeans. They saved more lives than they took really by bringing their superiority.

>>18066781 (OP)
The greatest accomplishments of spicniards is genociding some literal spearchuckers and stealing their gold just to do nothing with it and ruin their economy long term. Grim

>>18067886
Nice try, however you wuz just slaves.

>>18067984
>(N=20)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

>>18068011
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
This is the sound Iberians make when they cry?

I've learned something new today.

>>18068033
>Saqaliba
>Iberian
Kys, Arape.

>>18067984
Hapolgroup accpount for less than 0.01% of your DNA and arabs got J because they were raped by churkas

>>18067984
Actually only 40% of the haplogroups are berbers and 5% arabs (which is very distant ancestry) The rest are grecoromans subclades of E and J.
The 40% EM81 were likely slaves or fodders

>>18067797
AKSHUALLY, that's a myth
He actually just scuttled them in an orderly manner due to genuine structural issues with the ships. He eventually had more boats made and for much of the rest of the conquest there was regular contact and traffic of people between the Cortez expedition, Cuba, and the Old World, which is how things like Mesoamerican artifacts, news of the Aztec Empire's existence and detailed descriptions of Tenochtitlan made their way into Europe as far away as Germany way before the Siege of Tenochtitlan even began

>>18068123
The Y chromosome makes up about 2% of the entire genome. Anyway, what it shows is that the Andalusians were invaders, unrelated to the native Iberians whom they oppressed.

>>18068125
The E-M81 were the elite, the non-R1b groups were officers governing on behalf of E-M81 elites, and the R1b were loyal eunuchs granted the privilege of being buried alongside their E-M81 masters as a reward for oppressing their fellow Iberians.

>>18068161
Literally none of this is true. The camel piss is getting to your head Mohamed. Averroes loathed your kind.

the best part about conquistador threads in modern /his/ is not having to engage with the same old tired discussion about morality and indian genocide and human sacrifice or whatever because they always inevitably get derailed into haploautism and whether or not spanish people are berbers

>>18068165
Averroes real name was literally Muhammad, Paco. Open a book
>Ibn Rushd's full, transliterated Arabic name is "Abū l-Walīd Muḥammad ibn ʾAḥmad Ibn Rushd

>>18068165
All I said is true.


Iberians used to be Nordic prior to be raped by Moors btw.

Distance to: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries1
0.04531389 Swedish
0.07952927 Spanish_Andalucia
0.13958469 Moroccan_Tetouan
0.18364001 Lebanese_Muslim

>>18068190
Yes there are Bosnians named mohammed, your point being?

>>18068227
Insane troon

>>18068233
Not him but why are Iberians so brown compared to French, Italians, Anglos, Russians and Swedes and Finns?

>>18068245
>Italians
Baits used to be believable.

>>18066787
The smallpox crap is fake.

>>18067868
Ah, that's pretty accurate then

>>18066781 (OP)
Snallpox did all the work, idk why you guys are copeing by saying otherwise

>>18067740
Props to those jews for loving adventure, you had to be brave to embark on such a dangerous enterprise

>>18066781 (OP)
Extremely impressive.
The ratio between strength and resources available to the conquistadores vs the people they conquered is so insane that no amount of downplaying could make the end result look less than extraordinary. You could have knocked down indio tech, organization and unity whole notches and it would still be impressive just on grounds of how much land so few men managed to hold onto.

>>18068309
>utterly deluded
This is your brain on 1400 years of combined Andaluso-Punic rape.

>>18069035
>This is your brain on 1400 years of combined Andaluso-Punic rape.
Yes, that defines well north Africa.

>>18069097
> "n-no you"
Why are Iberians so uncreative?

>>18066781 (OP)
it's a lot less impressive when you remember both were dying of smallpox in the middle of the conquest

>>18069103
No this actually define well north Africa. They were raped by Greek like Punic then by Spanish like Andalusi. Everything in order.

>>18066781 (OP)
>>18066787
The soldier and conqueror of Mexico, Bernal Díaz del Castillo, frustrated with the falsehoods spread by those writing about the Spanish actions during the conquest of the Indies, exclaimed:

"...And since they started talking about the great cities, throwing out all these inflated numbers about how many people lived in them, what difference does it make whether they say there were eighty thousand or eight thousand? As for the massacres they claim we committed, being just four hundred soldiers in the war, we had enough to worry about just staying alive and not being overrun. Even if the Indians were tied up, we couldn’t have caused such great slaughters..."

>>18069110
Nope, the only interraction between us and Greeks was when we enslaved Greeks in mass in Sicily and destroyed their few attempt at building colonies near our Empire.

Historically, the only people raped by Greeks are Iberians, as Greeks wiped the floor with them and built a small colonial state called the Emporion in Northern Iberia. That being, said what Greeks did to Iberians pale in comparison to what we did to Iberians, as they conquered the entire peninsula and bred their women in mass forever changing their genepool in the process from a French & Swedish-like profile to the current mutted profile.

>>18069110
Nope, the only interraction between us and Greeks was when we enslaved Greeks in mass in Sicily and destroyed their few attempt at building colonies near our Empire.

Historically, the only people raped by Greeks are Iberians, as Greeks wiped the floor with them and built a small colonial state called the Emporion in Northern Iberia. That being, said what Greeks did to Iberians pale in comparison to what we did to Iberians, as we conquered the entire peninsula and bred their women in mass forever changing their genepool in the process from a French & Swedish-like profile to the current mutted profile.

>>18069138
>we
You mean your arab overlords? 'you' just got conquered repeatedly, by punics, germans, arabs, turks, french, spanish

>>18069160
No I mean we.

We conquered you repeatedly and mutted you, and you are still salty about it to this day in a typical display of colonized mentality. I bait you experience miny mental break downs everytime you look at your swarthy face and dark hair in the mirror lol.

>>18069171
He says, posting from his shitty apartment in Paris' banlieue.

>>18066781 (OP)
You're forgetting one massive factor - logistics.
The locals had their stuff around the corner, while the Spaniards had it across the Atlantic Ocean.
Also, putting one tribe on another is not as easy as you might think. You have the language barrier, and the possibility that the local tribes will unite against you any moment.
And then you have the numbers, which by itself is also a major factor.

So yes, it was very impressive.

>>18069171
nafroids are just eternally conquered rapebabies who lived for 2000 years terrified of all their neighbours

>>18069206
Very true. Castors are more accomplished as a species than teruns.

>>18069224
nafris* i forgot who i was arguing with sorry
my fault for entertaining various debates/schizo sperg outs at once

>>18069185
We've thoroughly defeated Whites in Southern Europe and bred them out of existence leaving only bitter rapebabies in our wake, so it is only natural for us to move on to Northern Europe and continue the race war against Whites there.

>>18069251
>We've thoroughly defeated Whites in Southern Europe and bred them out of existence leaving only bitter rapebabies in our wake, so it is only natural for us to move on to Northern Europe and continue the race war against Whites there.

>>18066781 (OP)
They were, imo, somewhat impressive as acts of political maneuvering. But the military actions were not too impressive. However them keeping the place was mostly down to the plagues and a few strokes of luck. As it is they were almost expelled from the Andes a number of times and New Spain was essentially just a chain of forts at the time. A less serendipitous timeline could have ended with the conquistadors made into skin drums. Perhaps they would have retained nominal overlordship over some of Mexico. But this is not certain.

>>18069260
Yes

18067851
>As a Spaniard I am actually grateful for the Ummayad conquest. They replaced the inferior and foreign Gothic kingdom with Al Andalus which was far more prosperous than the entirety of the west and also mogged the nafris mutts who lived in poverty and chaos on the other side of the strait of gibraltar.

>>18069191
Txacalans did not join at first. Spaniards had to defeat the Txacalans in 3 battles before they decided to join. And in 1 of the battles Cortes was almost killed.

So Conquistadores had to defeat: the txacalans, the aztecs and also other Spaniards sent by the Governor of Cuba.

And those retard that use the smallpox excuse... You don´t arrive in a place and suddenly all the people die of smallpox. In fact, proportionally more Spaniards died from tropical diseases than amerindians from European diseases.

>>18069191
cool story, pleb

I can’t even begin to imagine how mindbreaking it must be to be Iberian. Everytime you look at yourself you are reminded of centuries of humiliation, dominance and brown on white rape. You are basically a walking avatar of brown Supremacy, reminding the whole world that Abdul smashed Bjorn's skull, destroyed Burnhyld's and Yngrid's pink pussies and flooded their wombs with foreign semen.

At least Italians and Greeks can wewuz as being related to the Nordic founders of Rome and Greece to cope with being brown rapebabies, but Spaniards have anothing to be proud of aside from Celtiberian mudhuts followed by centuries of rape.

Truly a wretched existence.

>>18069388
>"Saaar I wuz Aryan n sheeeit"

I am once again asking for flags in /his/
I need to know if I should be laughing at paco, rahjeed, or muhammad

>I am once again asking for flags in /his/
>I need to know if I should be laughing at paco, rahjeed, or muhamm-ACK

>>18069260
Who are these aryan specimens of the iberian variety? Definitely hyperborean and white

>>18066781 (OP)
Not much. Before the Spaniards went at the aztecs they tried at the Yucatan and were chased out, ie defeated. The Tlaxcans nearly wiped out Cortez but decided to work with him to destroy the aztecs and gather an anti Aztec alliance with other kingdoms/tribes. When Cortez tuck tailed and escaped tenochitlan his force was almost caught and destroyed by the Aztec army. Later, most of the fall of tenochitlan was as a result of other tribes working together with Cortez as the glue to keep them united, rather his native girlfriend. With the aztecs gone the Spaniard used divide and conquer tactics to capture Mexico and were aided heavily by the old world diseases killing most of their armies.

>>18069350
The Spaniards did not defeat the tlaxcans at all. The tlaxcans surrounded Cortez party and starved them out as well as nearly killing Cortez himself. No matter how you slice it there’s no way 100 men can withstand thousands.

>>18069831
When Hernán Cortés arrived in the territory of the Tlaxcalans (also spelled Txacalans or Tlaxcaltecas) in 1519, he was not welcomed as an ally but treated as an enemy. The Tlaxcalans were a powerful and independent people who hated the Mexica (Aztec) Empire, but at first, they distrusted the Spaniards and fought against them in several battles.

Summary of what happened:

First clashes (August–September 1519):
Cortés and his men were attacked several times by the Tlaxcalans. There were fierce battles, especially near Tzompantepec and around Tlaxcala.

Outcome:
Even though the Tlaxcalans had larger numbers, the Spaniards’ weapons and tactics (horses, steel, firearms) gave them an advantage.

Change of strategy:
After several fights and realizing they could not defeat the Spaniards, the Tlaxcalan leaders decided to negotiate peace.


Eventually, the Tlaxcalans joined forces with Cortés, becoming his most important native allies in the conquest of the Aztec Empire.

>>18069846
>But ChatGPT said
Fuck you.

>>18069846
I bet you’re great at reading rooms. Cortez was nearly killed, which translate to tlaxcans capturing him and his men and Cortez’ gf making a plea to unite against the Aztecs after they obviously surrendered to the tlaxcans. All first hand accounts of The conquest of Mexico were propaganda pieces, even the letters.

>>18069824
>they tried at the Yucatan and were chased out, ie defeated
The Aztecs never invaded the Yucatan Peninsula at all, and all their military operations in the eastern half of Mesoamerica were successful. You're probably thinking of their brief conflict with the Purepecha State in Western Mexico.

>>18069974
I was referring to the Spaniards not the aztecs.

>>18069865
It is in the books that the chronicles wrote.