Thread 18071263

Everyone knows Britain gave guarantees to Poland in 1939.
Less people know there was a secret protocol added that specified that the guarantee was only towards Germany.
It explains why Britain only declared war in Germany, from a legal perspective at least.

But this 'secret protocol' has always puzzled me.

If you make the guarantee specifically against Germany, then that means you expect Poland to be attacked by others too. Does it not?

In that case, it makes the guarantee completely redundant unless you don't actually care about Polands future. Does it not?
Not only do you not care about her future, but you actively anticipate that outcome. Why else would they add that special protocol? Why else keep it secret?

But that's not the problem. The real problem comes now:

Why would you write that little detail in a secret protocol?
Why not public?
If I may speculate; perhaps if it had been public in the guarantee, it could have prevented the Germans from invading Poland altogether.
If the Germans knew the guarantee was NOT about protecting poland but about SPECIFICALLY going to war with Germany, could it hypothetically have influenced German decision?
After all, the Germans gambled that Britain wouldn't declare war over Poland.
Let me repeat that. Hitler invaded Poland because he believed the western powers wouldn't go to war over Poland.
So in a way, he was correct, he just didn't know how adamant they were at going to war to stop Germany. Had he known, would he still gave pulled the trigger?

>inb4 the allies declared war because of all the shit Germany did prior to invading Poland
Yes I know. He broke the Munich agreement, he threatened war with Lithuania etc. I get it. It makes sense to confront Germany.
But that's not relevant to the point about seemingly hiding the intentions of the guarantee which may have had implications.

Idk, it just seems kinda sketchy and I hate how it's just taken for granted by everyone. Am I the only one who thinks this?

> As the House is aware, certain consultations are now proceeding with other Governments. In order to make perfectly clear the position of His Majesty's Government in the meantime before those consultations are concluded, I now have to inform the House that during that period, in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence, and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power. They have given the Polish Government an assurance to this effect.
https://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/pre-war/390331a.html
Unless you can find a source for this so called secret protocol this is the official text of the guarantee and it says protection of poland only and no mention of germany. so....

>>18071286
I thought it was common knowledge that Britain added a secret protocol to the guarantee that said it was specifically against Germany.

Guess I was wrong.

>>18071295
If i had a nickel for every guarantee written in the year 1939 AD that had a secret clause i would have at least two nickels.

>>18071307
What does this even mean

Allies did plan declaring war against Soviet Union and intervening in the Winter War at side of Finland few months later, but in the end it never happened either.

>>18071263 (OP)
>If you make the guarantee specifically against Germany, then that means you expect Poland to be attacked by others too. Does it not?
No, it doesn't.

>>18072107
Because Germany invaded France.

>>18072107
thats not really adressing the point tho

>>18071295
>Guess I was wrong.
wtf do you even mean. Were you wrong about the existence of a secret protocol (delete this joke of a thread in that case) or of it being a common knowledge aka you insist without a shred of evidence.

>>18071295
I don't see it mention often in history discussions, so it's definitely not super common knowledge

>>18071263 (OP)
Because it didn't exist and they only pulled it out after the war was over to justify the USSR's expansion

>>18072199
It's your imagination.

>>18071263 (OP)
>If the Germans knew the guarantee was NOT about protecting poland but about SPECIFICALLY going to war with Germany, could it hypothetically have influenced German decision?
After all, the Germans gambled that Britain wouldn't declare war over Poland.

Britain had been cucking Germanys colonial and continental ambitions for a hundred years at least already. If Hitler thought that they would look more kindly on them now that they were Nat Socs with a ravenous expansion fetish he must have been extremely foolish. Maybe they thought with France gone so quickly Britain would despair, tired of war from WW1. Well, they were wrong. TheNazis weren't even in power very long. Putting up the fight they did after the post WW1 demilirization efforts was impressive, but seemingly foolish?

>britain did everything in its power to fulfill its historically recurring objective of stopping one mainland european country from becoming too powerful
when you start looking at world war 2 from this perspective, everything begins to make absolute sense

>>18072257
The USSR was a mainland European country and it expanded all the way to eastern Germany. I'd say it became too powerful, especially when you consider that the whole premise of "muh balance of power" was to prevent a competitor from eclipsing the British empire. Well Britain lost their empire, so I'd say the USSR eclipsed them.

>>18072257
This + bongs we wuzzing as jews + Balfour
>>18072274
They clearly fucked it up (they foolishly trusted their international finance goblins) and never recovered, but it does follow the same historical trend.

>>18072274
The USS$ did lots of good things too anon. Like wiping out the oldest Christian sects in Europe and putting high class people and the educated out of power. If Germany became powerfull it would have held sway over th UK but with central Eastern Europe in flames and with a culturally alien eastern enemy of massive strength that had to be resisted for 50 years constantly sitting on the border with the west providing constant fear and state power justifications I think we can all agree WW2 turned out pretty well.

>>18072303
>I think we can all agree WW2 turned out pretty well.
Who is this "we", shlomo?

>>18072257
Ok but why not make the 'secret' protocol public instead?
It may have prevented war altogether if the Germans knew this wasn't about saving Poland, so the objective of preventing Germany from expending could be achieved there and then without war.

Why keep it a secret which made the risk of a German attack on Poland even greater?

Did they want Germany to invade so they could fight her?

>>18072097
Ten cents.

>>18072490
I don't see how that makes a difference. Germany KNEW that if they declared war on Poland, France and Britian would go to war. Reasons above this fact aren't relevant. What we should be asking is why did Germany NEED to invade Poland off of unjust means?

>>18072597
It is relevant tho.
It's relevant because like I argued in my OP, it could have impacted German decision-making if the cause for intervention being only applied on Germany was made public in the guarantee, not kept a secret.
The added protocol affirms that Britain and France are ultimately not interested in protecting Poland. They're interested in confronting Germany.

The reason Germany invaded was because they didn't believe the western powers would come to Polands defence, i.e that the guarantee was about Poland.
It also presents a theory that Britain and France may not have been as interested in prevent war, over simply get an opportunity to confront Germany, likely to reverse the betrayal of the Munich agreement.

Why shouldn't we debate and explore this?
Look I'm not defending Hitler and he ultimately has the main responsibility for the turn of events, but I also want to be unbiased and I want to turn every rock to see what's under.

Again, why make a secret protocol that says they will only defend Poland against Germany, unless they were already expecting the Soviets the join. It serves no purpose unless this was the case.
And why make the protocol secret that their intentions were to confront Germany, not to actually protect Poland if a 3rd party attacks too.
It doesn't make sense if your intentions are to avoid war at all cost.

>>18072638
are you dumb
they knew this pact was solely to protect poland, they just didn't know if uk and france will actually do something

>>18072649
But it wasnt about protecting Poland.
They literally made that protocol so they wouldn't have to protect Poland from the Soviets.
Why else would they have added it?

>>18072638
Was Germany talking about going to war with Poland or Poland containg "Aryan Germanics" in need of liberation before the agreement though? This would justify Poland wanting protection from Germany specifically but still fails to explain the secret nature of a supposed German only deal. If they were specifically wary of Germany why not say that?
Didn't want to get involved with minor conflict? Why should they want minor countries and the U.S.S.R not to know this? Or was it just the public who did not know.

>>18071263 (OP)
Britain offered support for Poland in case of German aggression in particular because Nazi Germany in particular was a warmongering country which was making territorial, political and economic demands towards Poland - and many other European countries. Britain mediated diplomatic talks between Poland and Germany in particular, because this was the only area of tensions in Polish foreign relations.
Britain didn't specify what would happen in case of Poland being invaded by the USSR (or Zimbabwe, or Mexico, or hundreds of other countries) because neither of these countries was outright aggressive towards Poland. The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact happened AFTER the British guarantees and the aggressive Soviet intentions in THIS pact were indeed secret, so Britain couldn't react to them before they happened.

>>18072116
Winter War was already over by then.

>>18072659
>But it wasnt about protecting Poland.
oh okay i guess war and sea blockade was declared because they just feel bad that morning and it had nothing to do with the invasion of Poland

>>18072659
>They literally made that protocol so they wouldn't have to protect Poland from the Soviets.
You have no proof of this claim though.

>>18073014
That's not what I said.
It absolut was about the invasion of Poland. I'm merely questioning whether it was to defend Poland more than to simply confront Germany.

>>18073164
I dont. I'm speculating because i want to hear thoughts an opinions. I want to know the reason why they did it

>>18072668
Exactly, it raises a great number of questions, and I find it puzzling how no one raises this issue. What was the thoughts abd motivation behind adding a secret protocol that targeted specifically Germany, there has to be a reason it was added.
And why make it secret instead of public.

>>18072909
All this is true but it ultimately dies not explain any of the questions I've raised.

Because with everything you wrote, the question still comes back to: why wasn't simply the guarantee enough? What changed that led to the secret protocol being added?
If they only anticipated Germany to attack Poland then surely the original guarantee was enough no? No need for an added point that said this was only intended for Germany.
And finally, why not make it public.

>>18072909
>warmongering
>never actually declared war on anyone
???

>>18073669
They were waging wars outside of German borders for 6 years.

>>18072659
>But it wasnt about protecting Poland.
You keep parroting this like it is a fact. The problem with speculation is that you have to assume a variety of variables. Historians and scholars all agree Britian and France made the guarantee to protect Poland. Where is this secret clause you keep bringing up?

>>18073759
>You keep parroting this like it is a fact.
It's not a fact, but it's a speculation that I'm leaning towards when no one (including you) can give me a logical and rational explanation as to why Britain didn't just settle for the original universal
military guarantee to Poland that was issued on March 1939, why was the secret protocol added later on?

>Where is this secret clause you keep bringing up?
It is a fact that Britain added a secret protocol to the original guarantee, that the guarantee would only be enforced against an attack by Germany (i.e it wouldn't be enforced if anyone else attacked Poland).
That's why I question which ambition motivated Britain the most: whether the ambition to confront Germany outweighed the ambition to actually protect Polish sovereignty from a foreign attack.

>>18073843
And finally, I question the motivation as to why this added protocol was kept a secret, and not made public. The guarantee itself was public but not this added protocol. Why?

Am I crazy for questioning this?

I like how OP got raped by FP but people continue to post in this garbage thread as if it didn't happen

>>18073970
It's you morons who don't even have the basic facts.

>>18071263 (OP)
>le anti-bolshevik savior nazi muttmany signs an alliance pact with stalin and his commies, including a secret protocol about military cooperation
chudcels sleep
>UK guarantees the Polish border it already accepted in 1919 with (actually not secret at all) clause that it's the german border specifically, because - SURPRISE - germans threatened to invade it (and already made plans with ussr to do so)
chudcels write essays about how this really started ww2, how akshully the jews and moon people were already waging a war on germany etc etc

why are those limp-wristed, glasses-wearing, black-haired monkeys like this?

>>18071286
/thread
>>18071295
>I thought my schizophrenic delusions were common knowledge
turns out, they were not

>>18074141
I'm going to continue to raise the question until I get a sensible answer.

>>18074150
Why do you keep denying that the extended secret protocol added to the guarantee did not exist? This is common knowledge.

>>18074150
>>18074176
No one deny's you brother, just provide a source. It even makes sense that it would exist, but i've never seen anything about it. The lead up to semtember 1 1939 is pretty fascinating

>>18074141
>alliance
Where in the pact does it state they are obligated to support each other militarily?
It doesn’t. Maybe Poland deserved it?
Is that possible? Is it possible anti semitic ultra nationalist anti democratic Poland deserved to be beaten by the very powers whom they emulated or perhaps even inspired?

>>18072241
>ravenous expansion
Why lie? Germany held less territory in 1939 than it did in 1917.
>erm we get to rip your country apart then call it war of conquest when you democratically pull it back together again
Why are you so dishonest? Why can’t you admit Britains conduct was monumentally anti European?
They’ve always been anti European, to this day it’s America that yanks their leash to force them to play nice with Europe.
Jew?

>>18071263 (OP)
Stupid question. Of course the British didn't care about Pooland, and why would they?
I for one am glad more Anglo-Saxon lives weren't wasted on fighting an inter-Slav war.
It's a shame the Poles and Jews were able to cause a war between England and Germany but the solution is not to advocate for MORE Germanic lives to be lost.

>>18074741
>It's a shame the Poles and Jews were able to cause a war between England and Germany
oh, you must be one of the "Hitler was ackhually a Jew!!!" folks. We have a whole menagerie ITT.

>>18074773
No, I'm pro-Hitler

>>18072638
>The added protocol affirms that Britain and France are ultimately not interested in protecting Poland. They're interested in confronting Germany.
Even if that were true, going to war with dictatorships to defend liberty is based (on my political beliefs) and redpilled.

>>18073634
>I'm merely questioning whether it was to defend Poland more than to simply confront Germany
are you fucking 14
why do you think pacts in politics are made for? what is the point of this thread?

>>18075117
I dont really care about sekf-inserted moral values, and I'm not trying to moralizing either in my OP.

I simply want to know exactly what happened.
The question I'm asking is was Britain more interested in confronting Germsny rather than actually defending Poland, and why was the protocol kept secret, and what could have hypothetically have changed if it was public, especially within the German decision-making.

Again, leave moralizing out of it, and just work with me from a neutral standpoint when we discuss these topics, from both perspectives.

>>18075213
You're not answering the question tho. And there is no need to get angry.
It's a perfectly reasonable question.

>>18075231
>I'm asking is was Britain more interested in confronting Germsny rather than actually defending Poland
Yes you retard
the pact was anti-german, you learn this in elementary school, it was supposed to stop Germany conquest, it wasn't about British people being addicted to Polish cum

>>18075231
>and why was the protocol kept secret, and what could have hypothetically have changed if it was public, especially within the German decision-making.
Ribbentrop, a retarded wine merchant, would have convinced Hitler, a gullible retard, that it is another "bluff".
The Nazis would have ignored it, or whined about it publicly at most. Poland was always next on the list.

Why was it kept secret?
Because the Brits knew the Nazis would whine about this specific fact in the international press.
It makes sense to keep it secret for this reason.

>>18075478
>the Nazis would whine about this specific fact in the international press
Why is this a problem though?
As opposed to the potential of averting the war completely.

>>18075711
British treaty with Poland is what failed to avert the war because nazis thought that it was a bluff

>>18075448
Well I'd argue that this hypothesis isn't as determined as you're making it out to be.
And I say that based on multiple factors.
For example, Hitler briefly canceled the invasion plans of Poland on August 25th when England signaled an intention to intervene. This means Hitler was absolutely receptive to backing down if he felt that the risk of war with the west was too great.
A major reason (perhaps the main reason) as to why they even entered in a deal to split Poland with the Soviets was in an effort to limit the prospect of intervention. They reasoned 'why would Britain intervene if Poland was attacked by both' etc.
So making the protocol public, that stipulated that Britain would only fight Germany regardless, it may have had a tilting effect on Hitler.

Again, this is hypothetical. I cannot be sure, but would it be reasonable to close all windows of doubt completely?

>>18071263 (OP)
>it makes the guarantee completely redundant unless you don't actually care about Polands future
Sometimes, normies will admit that britain did not care about poland, but rather only about defeating germany. Usually they won’t admit this but sometimes they will. Narratives are hard to challenege because people become emotionally attached to them.

>>18072115
It kind of obviously does

>>18074141
Why is everything so black and white to you? Either we believe in your ever-changing narrative wholesale, or else we are neo-nazis. Do normies really rhink like this?

>>18075759
Yes they do. They become extremely emotional about ww2 being debated. Even asking sincere and fairly reasonable questions is subjected to heavy gatekeeping of the narrative. It's very cultist behavior.

>>18075842
you don't debate anything tho, you are just spamming the board with pointless sealioning

>>18071263 (OP)
The better question is: Why did Britain give Poland a guarantee KNOWING it would cause a war and KNOWING that Poland would lose said war???

Why did Chamberlain, on the 15th March, declare that he didn't give a shit about German expansion and that the policy of appeasement would continue?

So-called "historians" talk about the guarantee to Poland, but very few talk about the Four-Power Alliance proposal of 21 March 1939. Poland rejected this BECAUSE they knew it was designed to cause a war.

But what's more interesting is that Chamberlain said just 4 or 5 days before this proposal, on 17th March,: "I am not prepared to engage this country in new unspecified commitments operating under conditions which cannot now be foreseen".

I DO NOT interpret that to mean "I only want to give guarantees that will definitely result in war".

The answer is found in, well, all the evidence, and particularly what Halifax said on 27 March at the Foreign Policy Committee meeting, and what Herbert Hoover wrote in "Freedom Betrayed": Roosevelt caused World War 2.

>>18072257
Except none of it makes sense, apart from the politically incorrect answer of "America caused WW2", then it all makes sense. Literally every question. For example "Why did Chamberlain give a guarantee to Poland AGAINST the advice of the British military?"

>>18072490
The secret protocol was added during the war, 1942 or something. They brow beat the Polish Ambassador into it for legal reasons.

It didn't stop the Poles from, rightly, pointing out that the British violated the original Treaty of 25 August in any case.

>>18076098
how come everyone is gulity except the guy who actually invaded Poland

>>18071263 (OP)
>If the Germans knew the guarantee was NOT about protecting poland but about SPECIFICALLY going to war with Germany, could it hypothetically have influenced German decision?
No because Hitler already knew it was about starting a war against Germany. He points this out in his speech of 30 January 1940.
"Despite our attempts, despite the concessions... today they even admit, quite unashamedly, that Poland could have made an agreement with us. But they did not want that. They wanted war!"

From March 31st to April: Hitler still hoped Poland or Britain could be intimidated into making an agreement
From May 5th to August 10th: Hitler hoped to avoid risking war with Britain by delaying war with Poland until Britain had renounced the guarantee (because Hitler suspects Chamberlain is acting under against his will by provoking a war, see>>18076098 )
From August 10th: After Britain and Poland threatened war on August 5th (Polish Ultimatum to Danzig), Hitler decides to accept Stalin's offer of a non-aggression pact and force Poland or Britain to back down at the risk of war.

Hitler accepting the British and Polish challenge in late August is literally the only slight way we can say "Germany started WW2".
But that's bullshit, no one would blame the bank clerk for accepting a bank robbers' challenge and bringing out their own gun.
"OMG the bank robber only threatened to kill the bank clerk, whereas the bank clerk actually killed the bank robber!"

>>18076112
because the guy who actually invaded Poland never wanted to invade his ally.
It was the British, under pressure from Roosevelt, that knowingly provoked a war.

>>18076122
damn, turns out by
>intimidating
others, you are risking a war! crazy innit
why are neonazis so dishonest?

>>18076127
why was Hitler such a retarded NPC who got easily mindcontrolLed into causing the war by some guy ona wheelchair continent away?

>>18076128
>why are neonazis so dishonest?
This coming from plutocrats who for 80 years have maintained "Hitler wanted to take over the world and kill everyone who wasn't blonde hair and blue eyed and he decided to start his world conquest with Poland"

>>18076155
well he killed a lot of Poles and Jews while the blonde hair and blue eyed children were kidnapped, three years later he was fighting war in Greece and Azerbeijan but I guess it was actually all those other countries fault that they got invaded (or Roosevelt used that npc painter as a pawn and had him invade all those countries as a part of his evil masterplan)

>>18076165
> three years later he was fighting war in Greece
One day, for no reason at all, right?
Or perhaps "because he wanted to take over the world", right?
But it's the "nazis" that are the dishonest ones.

>>18076176
>nooo we didn't invade shitload countires
>i m-mean we did, but we have reason n shiet
lol

>>18076186
>

>>18076195
Glad that you acknowledged colonialims being evil but that problem is pretty much solved

>>18076202
colonialism isn't the problem. It's the crass hypocrisy in the argument of "German expansionism bad".

>>18076214
But Britain didn't expand, pretty much the oposite, the Dominions were pretty much independed countries after WW1 and India was gaining increasing autonomy since 1935 with culiminated by a voluntary giving them independence, there was no country that Britan wanted a war with in order to increase their empire unliked nazis

>>18076221
>Empire is only ok if you inherited it from the past.
Would you say the same thing for personal wealth?

>>18076214
>colonialism isn't the problem
So Germans just wanted to have their own colonies like UK by the means of military invasion
idk, seems like it's their fault?

>>18076233
>it's their fault?
The topic is the Second Anglo-German War. On no account is it Germany's fault.

>>18076237
Why would Britain want a war if they already rule the world? That makes 0 sense

>>18076202
>>18076214
Britain at least stayed outside of Europe with its territory but when the Germans got in to some Africa stuff Britain once again had some conflict with them. This argument is just an endless circle because now we're back to page 1 again.
Hitler running around before world War 1 downing pints and singing African colonial anthems with his mates and fuming over British concentration camps.

>>18076241
Britain didn't want the war. But after giving the guarantee they felt they could not then immediately retract it when they found out the truth. Instead they stuck to what they decided in March: provoke a war.

>>18076221
Britain ruled India and many other places.
Germany did aim to unify with Germans in Eastern Europe and reorganize borders in the event of war such to stabilize a region that had been fighting over borders for over a 100 years.

These are too different things. The Germans case was more moral and German policy actions reflected international law. Germany also signed and respected the Geneva Conventions.

>>18076254
>Britain didn't want the war
yes, thanks for agreeing
that leaves the failed painter who actually invaded 14 countries
>>18076255
>Germany did aim to steal land from Slavs and reorganize borders
how did they plan on do that?

>>18076254
Lord Halifax in particular wanted war. As did FDR. As did Churchill. Large sections of the Anglo American elites were persuaded or bribed to pursue war by any means.

>>18076263
only the pedo painter who invaded everyone and put half of his economy into drafting millions of soldiers actually wanted peace...

>>18076261
In the event of war they would pull in ethnic Germans and push out ethnic poles etc in the long term but in the short term they wanted to protect the Baltic states who they were racially kin to. Romanians, Hungarians etc they had no beef with.
Can you see any problem with this?

>>18076270
You said that Germans wanted to "reorganize borders" aka steal shit from their neighbours
how did they wanted to achive that? By what means they wanted to reorganize borders?

>>18076266
>forced into war
>don’t take the high ground
>don’t take the sea ports
>don’t take all access roads
>don’t even look twice when ussr took all the baltics
>Allies invade Iran and entire Middle East. Don’t even get concerned

Dude is this war you’re thinking about or some other game?

>>18076276
By military force of course. What’s your point?

Are you saying this aim was wrong? What makes you say that given the history of the area?

>>18076291
so why did the hitler was such a retarded NPC that was easily baited into being america pawn and starting a war?

>>18076298
>By military force of course.
Well, you see.. using military force to reorganize borders... that kinda sounds like a war...

>>18076299
What war did he start?
>>18076307
Yes, in the event of war they would reorganize borders to prevent further war. Using military force. Guns. Bombs. Bayonets.

Can you explain what the problem was with this? Go ahead.

>>18076317
Ah! So Hitler wanted a war BUT for the noble cause of preventing another war
that makes perfect sense innit

>>18076261
>that leaves the failed painter
No. It points to Roosevelt.

>>18076263
>Halifax
Im not so sure. He was simply an Americanophile. Again, this explains everything.
On 14th March he said that Britain was not going to start a war for Poland or Czechoslovakia. On 22nd March he tells Joe Kennedy that he will start a war even without Poland........ you have to be fucking obtuse to not see the connection in all the evidence, or indeed, an American propagandist larping as a "historian".

>>18076331
so why did the hitler was such a retarded NPC that was easily baited into being america pawn and invading Poland?

>>18076334
He perhaps wasn't quite aware of the extent of American pressure against Britain in March 1939.

And by "pressure" I mean threats,

>>18076338
>da london banker jooz and their allies new york jooz.... don't like me??
holy shit, why was hitler such a retard?

>>18076346
Be patient with the painter, he didn't finish a high school

>>18076255
>Germany did aim to unify with Germans in Eastern Europe and reorganize borders
he didn't fly too good

>>18076361
In the end, the borders were reorganized, just not the way he would like

>>18076291
>forced into war
Who put the gun to Hitler's head and forced him to invade Poland? Hitler didn't need to invade Poland.

>>18076600
yes he did moron, poland was genociding germans and stole half their territory after ww1. are you trolling?

>>18076298
>What makes you say that given the history of the area?
The concert of fucking Europe that prevented war since Napoleon only being stopped by Germans in the Franco Prussian war and World War I. Nobody wanted war in Euorpe so saying "war is natural for the area" is wrong.

>>18076607
>stole land
No such thing. Germany lost that land fair and square in the great war. Being mad about losing doesn't give you right to start another war.
>muh genocide
Why can you people never show proof of this happening?

>>18076617
according to who

>accept whats imposed on you by your enemies

yeah fuck that shit we ball

>>18076327
>Ah! So Hitler wanted a war BUT for the noble cause of preventing another war
that makes perfect sense innit

Yes, in the event of war they would reorganize borders to prevent further war. Using military force. Guns. Bombs. Bayonets.

Can you explain what the problem was with this? Go ahead. This is the second time Ive asked you.

>>18076363
This is true. How is this an argument against Hitler though? Its like saying Hamas should surrender because the Jews already took Palestine. Go ahead and explain the logic to me.

>>18076600
The Polish government put the gun to Hitler's head. By harming Germans needlessly despite many offers of peace and land. Later the Soviets did the same because some slavs dont want peace when they see an opportunity for gain.

>>18076610
That concert collapsed in 1914 and then that concert oppressed Germany for decades so it got its shit pushed in and lost all its empires - not my problem so why hate Hitler for being reasonable?

>>18076617
Germany didnt lose that land, it was taken by Poles as a land grab when Germany was weak from fighting others - thats how cowardly Polish men really can be. Pilsudski excepted perhaps.

Being mad about shit literally does give you a right to start a war. No one is under any obligation to accept Polish crime.

>>18072257
It does for the early part of the war, but after the fall of France they continued the policy even at the cost bringing about everything that it was supposed to prevent in the first place.

>>18076112
Because he was merely retrieving stolen property.

>>18076112
>how come im a retard

Invading Poland was justified and necessary.

>>18076662
>>18076635
>Being mad about shit literally does give you a right to start a war
It isn't no matter how hard to cry. Under these criteria you made it was morally right for Britian and France to declare war on Germany since they were acting like a spoiled child.

>>18076662
>>18076714
>Hitler didn't want a war!
>Uh... actually he wanted a war but i support his case of stealing shit from neighbouring countries like a thug he was so he is a good guy
how often is the /pol/troon going to change his narrative?

>>18076738
pumping 6 year old helgas full of slavic cum in berlin while the ssfags were watching bleeding on the ground was justified and necessary

>AYO HITLER DINDU NUFFIN POLAND WAS RAYCIST N SHIEET
I'm convinced that if you banned all brown people from 4chan these threads would disappear.

>>18076738
It wasn't, they had no jurisdiction over Danzig and had no legal right to invade Poland.

>>18076738
>Invading Poland was justified and necessary.
you should tell hitler that because it was final option after poland didnt agree to help fight the ussr

>>18076745
Britain and France had no civilians involved or land. So no, try again.

>>18076751
I keep saying that they planned to re-organise in the event of war. That doesn't mean they wanted war. If they did they wouldnt offer numerous terms again and again.

Your inability to even just acknowledge these points demonstrates your ignorance and mendacity.

>>18076662
>The Polish government put the gun to Hitler's head.
Hey retard, you do know germany used a false flag to invade poland right? Gun to his head my ass.

>>18076759
Its honestly annoying how fucking stupid these guys are. Its always the same arguments over and over again, even when they are constantly pointed out to be wrong, they just make a new thread and try arguing the same shit in a different way.

>>18076754
>>18076754
Oh really how was child rape justified and neccessary? Go ahead explain that.

>>18076762
It was self defence of their people. No one else was defending them. Read Udo Walendy.

>>18076763
It was nothing to do with fighting the USSR.

>>18076767
>false flag
Nope.

>>18076764
>offer numerous terms of wanting free shit from other countries or we invade
if you didn't fold in a war then maybe this could work for you, nazis weren't strong enough to play thugs

>>18076773
They keep trying to shit on Hitler for no reason, get btfo'd and start again the next day. As Hitler said, gradually, I began to hate them. The best strategy is just to be straightforward with them and ask them to honestly explain how why they hate Hitler.

>>18076774
nazis are not humans so it's justified and neccessary to kill and torture them, it would be a sin to not do that

>>18076774
>>Nope.
Gleiwitz incident you coping retard.

>>18076777
nazis are less than vermin so yeah, i don't like em

>>18076775
Germans paid for their goods and honoured their contracts. So nah.
Germans didnt fold, they were ganged up on by thugs. Look at you now. Youre fucked worse than the Germans - not my problem.

>>18076774
>It was nothing to do with fighting the USSR.
Yes it was, one of the major reason for taking poland was to bring the fight to bolsheviks. He wanted Poland as a buffer state.

>>18076774
Hitler had already been talking about invading poland before he came up with the danzig myth.

>>18076778

>>18076780

Says the guy that just admitted to wanting to rape children in Berlin.

>>18076779
LMAO. try again.

>>18076783
A fly that is eating dogshit in the park is more valuable being that the entire german race, showing mercy after they easily folded in ww2 was a mistake

>>18076783
>Germans didnt fold, they were ganged up on by thugs
The copes of a loser.

>>18076787
the suffering, rape and death of all germanodis who were acting all mighty in the begning was the greates historical justice in the history of earth
i wish nazis were real and not just internet chickenhawks so we could have a second party in berlin

>>18076785
Attended a memorial for Pilsudski.

Cope and seethe

>>18076791
>haha you lost to my bigger gang
Copes of child rapists and criminals throughout history.

>>18076796
picrel

>>18076797
So what, hitler was just joking about wanting to destroy poland? It was all a prank?

>>18076801
>loses argument
>deflects to talking about child rape
LOL

>>18076788
>easily folded
ww2 biggest loss of life for allied powers ever in any war ever.

cope and seethe.

>>18076797
Why would that even matter when he invaded Pilsudski's homeland? That contradicts what your trying to say here retard. Good job.

>>18076806
>bragging about killing white people
Post hand.

>>18072107
>>18072116
Operation Pike almost solidifying Hitler-Stalin pact

>>18076098
Come on anon use your head. The guarantee was meant to deter Germany from attacking. That was the main ambition. Britain also gave guarantees to several other countries too I'm 1939, not just Poland.
In the end Hitler pulled the trigger, so he is the main guy responsible.
And they gave guarantees to prevent further axis expansion. Britain gave guarantees to Greece as well when Albania was invaded and annexed in 1939 but you never screech about that.

Just because Chamberlain did not give guarantees to Poland IMMEDIATELY after Hitler took Czechia, doesn't have to mean anything at all. He obviously needs time to consult with his cabinet, experts and parlament before rushing ahead, still Hitler left very little time to ponder decisions, abd that's a major reason why ww2 happened. Hitler kept moving so fast that no one had time to really properly evaluate the situation and decisions taken.

Don't try to spin this shit. I meant for this thread to specifically deal with the questions in MY OP. I didn't want stormfags to hijack this thread and turn it into another "lul why didn't everyone give Hitler everything he wanted thread number 50002". Make your own fucking thread asshole. You're the reason people become so militant as soon as someone starts asking questions like I did in my OP. Fuck off.

>>18076801
>>18076806
imagine the ss-man with blown up intestines, watching as his little sister is getting gangbanged apart by Tajiks while he bleeds to death
after the years of being brainwashed into being the "master race" lmaooo i'm so glad that Fagtler chimped out

>>18076801
shouldn't vote for hitler?

>>18076804
I didnt say it, you did. Your revealed yourself not my problem. See >>18076801

>>18076802
Hitler warmed to Poland and grew colder later. Pilsudski was a man he could deal with as likely to honour agreements and talk straight with him. But he died, which is why Hitler attended his memorial - it was a loss.


>>>18076808
>Why would that even matter when he invaded Pilsudski's homeland? That contradicts what your trying to say here retard. Good job.

Literally doesnt contradict what Im at all. I may like your household, bu tlater if you die and your replacements piss me off Ill still fight you - problem?

>>18076809
>brags about invading white lands and raping white kids.

post nose

>>18076811
Guarantees by an unlawful authority are not guarantees of peace. Therefore the UK is at fault for WW2 not Germany.

>>18076812
Like I said - you guys on /His/ lost the argument so you reduce to brags about raping white kids.

>>18076818
picrel

>>18076214
German expansionism was bad for Britain and France. That's the crux of situation. It makes sense for them to oppose it.

It's like China invading Mongolia and Japan Taiwan because "look at America taking all that land from the natives and becomea big country, why can't we do the same?".

That argument doesn't work. Obviously USA would never allow it and no one would accept that rationale.

>>18076835
>I didnt say it, you did. Your revealed yourself not my problem.
See that might mean something, if i was the one who said that, faaaaaaaggot

>>18076835
>uh he changed his mind about wanting to destroy his neighbor
LOL

>>18076836
>>18076836
China literally invaded everywhere around itself. Tibet being base in point. North Korea etc. Americans, Brits and French just get ntoo big for their boots over time and think only they get to do things.

>>18076835
how does it feel to look at your daddy every morning? I bet the soldier that they modeled the enormous monument of a Red Army HERO in the middle of berlin after, maked a lot of little helgas feel very good

>>18076835
>>Literally doesnt contradict what Im at all. I may like your household, bu tlater if you die and your replacements piss me off Ill still fight you - problem?
That was not your original argument this is a goalpost move. Is it possible for you not to be retarded.

>>18076843
This is not even fucking related to my OP. Can you fuck off?

Any other forum you would have been banned for off-topic.

>>18076838
wait you dont support raping german children? How do you explain the anons who do here on your side?

>>18076842
Poland has been fucking around with everybody in that area for years.

>>18076850
If you want to bitch about rape, i could bring up what the germans did to soviet women and children. This is just hypocrisy at its finest faggot.

>>18076850
learn from the history and pipe down krautie
unless you want to continue nazi traditions and give you little sister to me

>>18076850
>poland was fucking with everyone when hitler said that
Really? What was poland doing in the 20s?

>>18076850
>>Poland has been fucking around with everybody in that area for years.
why are you lying

>>18076835
Look you fucking vermin, I made it very clear what I specifically wanted to debate in my OP. We're not going to turn this thread into Thread #50943 in why everyone didn't just give Hitler everything he wanted, just because you can't stop obsessing.

Gi make your own fucking thread asshole. You're the reason everyone hates stormfaggots.

It's the
>stormtroon has the autistic emotional breakdown
thread huh

>>18076844
Should’ve torn down after invasion of Ukraine

>>18076843
You brought up China and Mongolia.

>>18076844
> little helgas feel very good#
more peado posting by slavs

this checks out.

>>18076846
That was the og argument, Hitler doesnt want to kill slavs but will do so if necessary. Problem?

>>18076864
>>That was the og argument, Hitler doesnt want to kill slavs but will do so if necessary. Problem?
No it wasn't. Jesus you got dementia or something, the argument was about hitler planning for an invasion of poland before danzig. Can't even keep your shit straight retard.

>>18076864
>pedo
applies to human beings, not nazi larvas

>>18076861
Unfortunately this thread has been hijacked by one.
My question in my OP was sincere.

>>18076863
can't have Putin rising gas prices + even the german new popular altright party loves Russia

Don't even know why people even respond to this "Hitler dindu nuffin" faggot. It's the ??????? Amerimutt schizophrenic autist.

>>18076864
>YEAH KILL EM FUCKING MURDER THE POLISH WOMEN AND CHILDREN HAHA DIE DIE DIE EXTERMINATE ZE POLISH RACE
>but uh they made me do it

But thanks for ruining my thread with your obsession on Hitler dindu nuffin.

>>18076876
>even the german new popular altright party
Nice try, nafo

>>18076853
>>18076853
Bitch all you want. Germans were some of the world's most disciplined troops and no Nazi on 4chan defends child rape but you guys do.

>>18076854
Whats to learn? Polish arent a popular people and complain about things that they do themselves.

>>18076856
Agitating for more land.

>>18076860
You guys just post these threads to shit on Hitler then get mad and start bragging about slavs raping white children.

Look at you now. Extremely butthurt.

>>18076870
>we get to rape kids if those kids are the kids of Nazis.

>>18076878
Germans executed those SS who harmed people in their care.

>>18076879
Stop being uncool to Hitler and your thread will remain free of Hitler defence.

>>18076884
>Whats to learn?
don't larp as master race if all you're going to do is to fold and get raped

Im leaving this thread now.

Please note, your guys bragged about raping white german kids becase theyre the kids of Nazis.

This is really who you guys are.

>>18076884
>You guys just post these threads to shit on Hitler then get mad and start bragging about slavs raping white children.

Did you even read my OP?
Did you?
How am I shitting on Hitler?

This thread was about a specific topic.
YOU are talking about things that ISN'T topic you fucking retard.
Do you understanding?

You literally have mental illness. FUCK OFF.
Make your own fucking thread where you can talk about how Hitler was such an innocent little hero and how everyone is at fault for nkt giving him what he wants. You already did that for 50000 times in 50000 different threads.

FUCK OFF from my thread.

>>18076884
>nazi larva
>kids
what?
+ how i am supposed to know that she doesn't carry panzerfaust? we only had fun with paristant nazi larvas, problem?

>>18076891
>nuuuh don't extract vengence on the poor me!!
too late, krautie, Berlin of 1945 will be a pleasant memory for your nation

So is anyone going to actually talk about my OP?

Or has this thread been effectively killed now?

>>18076904
Why? talking about "what if's" and "secret clauses" that don't exist is no different than talking about alt-history.

>>18076811
>In the end Hitler pulled the trigger, so he is the main guy responsible.
again, with my bank robber analogy, if you blame the bank clerk for "pulling the trigger" on the bank robber, then you're just a 'tard.

>Just because Chamberlain did not give guarantees to Poland IMMEDIATELY after Hitler took Czechia, doesn't have to mean anything at all.
No but it does mean something when he does it after several days and weeks of meetings with the U,S, Ambassador

>14th march: we aren't going to start a war for poland lol
>17th march: u.s. ambassador visits
>22nd march: LETS GO TO WAR BOYS! EVEN IF POLAND DOESN'T WANT TO!

Most humans can see the obvious fucking link.

>>18076904
you didn't respond to my point responding to your OP.

>>18076906
New here?
Pretty much every WW2 thread on this board devolves into Slavs celebrating child rape and Anglo nazis calling for total slav genocide. Don't take it too personally

>>18076891
Expecting Slavoids not to celebrate child rape is like expecting the sun not to rise in the east. We've had this exact same thread a thousand times now

>>18076978
It's not the topic of discussion you fucking retard. The topic was extremely specific in the OP. Do you have reading disability?

>>18077010
>again, with my bank robber analogy, if you blame the bank clerk for "pulling the trigger"
We're not here to discuss who started ww2 you fucking retard. It was never in the OP.
It was specifically about the added protocol.


>No but it does mean something when he does it after several days and weeks of meetings with the U,S, Ambassador
US ambassador was LITERALLY not the TOPIC of the thread you fucking RETARD.

>you didn't respond to my point responding to your OP
What was your point?

>>18077022
You should be perma-banned for deliberately provoking off-topic discussion. The discussion was about the protocol and virtually everyone was staying largely within topic until you showed up.

>>18077060
I've only posted twice in this thread, from the look of it, it went to shit long before I showed up. But ok, perma ban me lol

>>18077065
Yes you should be perma-banned. It's not the first time you've hijacked a ww2-related thread to start sperging about how Germany was justified to invade Poland and everything was Britain's fault for hidden agendas. It was literally not the topic of this thread but you pushed it nonetheless.

Do you understand this?
Or are you too low iq to get it?
In any normal forum you would have been banned, and rightfully so. You deliberately go off-topic.

>>18074656
NTA, but...
>Not understanding that Anglos are the World Protagonists and have the objective right to concentrate everyone else's wealth under themselves for the better good of man and the advancement of humanity, which is mostly themselves
>Even once

>>18077081
I support the British Empire. You're confusing me with someone else

>>18077047
No your what if isnt related. You keep saying their was in fact a secret clause when their wasn't.

>>18076843
>Americans, Brits and French... think only they get to do things
This, but unironically. Sit down, Paco, only humans get to influence human history. The only reason we even include the French is because they had the balls to burn down their Catholic institutions and cast off the yoke for a handful of decades following the Revolution. Probably shouldn't count any more, but its not a perfect system.

>If the Germans knew the guarantee was NOT about protecting poland but about SPECIFICALLY going to war with Germany, could it hypothetically have influenced German decision?
No.
end thread.

>>18077081
Has it ever occurred to you that some people who aren't Nazis might also dislike gratuitous celebrations of child rape?
Are we at a stage where you must either be a Nazi OR celebrate the rape of children?

>>18077096
>only humans get to influence history! burn those catholics!

t.jew

>>18077119
>pretending nazis raped kids so you can do it irl
always has been dude

>>18077125
I was referring to the Polish ultranationalists celebrating child rape.
OP seems to think if you have a problem with that, you must be a Nazi and therefore should be perma banned or something. I guess he was confusing me with a different guy earlier in the thread

>>18077136
>you must be a Nazi and therefore should be perma banned or something
no one thinks this however it is bizarre how when you point out the Nazis were in fact against child-rape, someone always points how we shouldnt be quick to become Nazis as if the Western world is on the verge of a mass national socialist awakening??? self report maybe???
Cant we just say the Nazis were right about jews and slavs raping kids?

>>18076896
>dehumanization
>ethnic hatred
>dishonesty
Slavs and jews love to screech and shit about how the Nazis allegedly did this to them, but then they turn around and celebrate it when its "their turn".

Poland deserved to be destroyed by Germany if Poles celebrate child rape.
Slavs deserved genocide if they celebrate rape.
jews deserve genocide if they celebrate ethnic hatred.
it is simple cosmic justice.

>>18077166
In defense of OP, people did hijack his thread and turn it into the usual German vs Slav flamewar. I would be more sympathetic if he wasn't intent on perma banning me

>>18077174
>it is simple cosmic justice.
now you get me!
but the justice would be even better if anglos didn't save you at the elbe river, next time we won't be as nice as were were in 1945, the vermin will be eradicated

>>18072638
>The reason Germany invaded was because they didn't believe the western powers would come to Polands defence, i.e that the guarantee was about Poland.
That was just a misjudgement on their part since it was inherently about Poland.

>>18076891
See you tomorrow, anon.
>>18076888
>"Heim ins Reich, fellow blood germans"
>"NOOOO! Not like that!"
Grow up

>>18071263 (OP)
It wasn't a secret

>>18074150
>>18072183
You don't have to be a cunt about it

>>18071263 (OP)
>Let me repeat that. Hitler invaded Poland because he believed the western powers wouldn't go to war over Poland.
So then specifically mentioning Germany in the guarentee wouldn't have stopped him anyways.

>>18078087
The days of Anglo-Germans are over. Slavic Eurasia will be victorious over our enemies

>>18080491
My point visualized.

>>18080509
I hope soon all Anglos, Americans, G*rmans will go extinct. Then finally Russia can be prosperous