Thread 18072273

Where does the 'English were Orthodox before the Normans' LARP come from? Going on the main website for the claim they prove absolutely nothing and just state that England was Orthodox... BECAUSE IT WAS!

>>18072273 (OP)
Do the orthodox really like to be the victim so much they have to invent a completely ahistorical catholic persecution against them?

>the pre-Norman English were orthodawgz mayne!!!
I sleep
>the pre-Norman English were KJV-only fundamental Baptists
REAL SHIT?

>>18072360
They were but unironically
So much so that Bede had to seethe at “those who say” faith alone saves.
It’s interesting how in people’s bid to prove “no one believed in sola fide until Luther” they inevitably cite sources that REFER to people who believe in sola fide in order to supposedly refute them.

>>18072273 (OP)
that they had their own patriarchal church separate from rome
considering their rather close connection with Constantinople I wouldn't say that was that far fetched

>>18072541
>considering their rather close connection with Constantinople
Said relationship being non-existent. The greatest amount of interaction they had with Byzantium was pilgrims moving through the region to the Holy Land. They never interacted with them otherwise.

>>18072550
that is what pope supporters would say

>>18072273 (OP)
I never heard of that before, could you explain this further?

>>18072273 (OP)
>>18072851

check out the work of Vladimir Moss, he's a True Orthodox historian and has these two books, one is called The Fall of Orthodox England and the other The Rise and Fall of the Anglo-Saxon Autocracy

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.annunciationscranton.org/files/PDF/104_THE_FALL_OF_ORTHODOX_ENGLAND.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjCvO-3kaSQAxU60QIHHQivCQAQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1-BUMwvrVnMkaaoIydY-xl

https://www.academia.edu/35521347/THE_RISE_AND_FALL_OF_THE_ANGLO_SAXON_AUTOCRACY

>On October 14, 1066, at Hastings in southern England, the last Orthodox king of England, Harold II, died in battle against Duke William of Normandy. William had been blessed to invade England by the Roman Pope Alexander in order to bring the English Church into full communion with the “reformed Papacy”; for since 1052 the English archbishop had been banned and denounced as schismatic by Rome. The result of the Norman Conquest was that the English Church and people were integrated into the heretical “Church” of Western, Papist Christendom, which had just, in 1054, fallen away from communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, represented by the Eastern Patriarchates of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. Thus ended the nearly five-hundred-year history of the Anglo-Saxon Orthodox Church, which was followed by the demise of the still older Celtic Orthodox Churches in Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

>>18072273 (OP)
It's hilariously retarded given the English church accepted the filioque in the presence of the Papal legate at the Council of Hatfield in the 7th century.

>>18073229
What's your source for that, because I cant find any mention of filioque in the event

>>18073122
>Vladimir Moss
This dude is a complete schizo lmao
https://www.academia.edu/72238965/THE_COLD_WAR_AND_PUTINS_REVENGE

>>18072541
didn't the people of Nova Anglia specially ask the Emperor for dispensation to have western style mass?

>>18073122
Only one contemporary Norman account mentions William receiving Alexander's blessing which isn't corroborated by any papal account. The Normans that fought at Hastings were also required to make penance for the slaughter involved, which also contradicts the claim that the invasion was approved by the pope.

The most probable explanation is that the blessing never happened, and the Norman chronicler that claimed it just twisted the pope's post hoc approval of William's conquest

>>18073348
no western but anglo saxon

>>18073326
he's a True Orthodox so he basically views the russian federation as neo-soviet, desu he has a point given that True Orthodox russian synods are viewed as terrorist organizations

>>18073351
>The Normans that fought at Hastings were also required to make penance for the slaughter involved, which also contradicts the claim that the invasion was approved by the pope.
Exactly, IIRC they were forgbidden from taking Communion for one whole year.

>>18073229
>Council of Hatfield
Where is this? It looks like it's talking about a different topic. Also there was no "Papal legate". The office of pope didn't exist, he was still a patriarch of Rome.

>>18073489
From what I briefly read, it was called by the pope at the time to fight against Monothelites. Some sources mention filioque but others dont

>>18073122
>umm England was actually orthodox before the Normans because ummm I said so?

>>18073359
It's kind of hard to take someone seriously as an academic when they publish articles raving about muh SPIRITUAL WAR OF TOTALITARIANISM VS DEMOCRACY, I wouldn't trust an emotional dogmatist with a child's view of geopolitics to apply critical analysis to history.

>>18074221
Schism with the west happened in 1054

>>18072453
Yep.

>>18074272
That’s just assuming that the English didn’t go along with it. Edward clearly did because he had a Papal legate in England and was on friendly terms with the Papacy, as well as most of Western Europe

>>18073295
>>18073489
The council's profession of the filioque is found in the account in Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People (our central history of the early English Church)
https://sacred-texts.com/chr/bede/hist103.htm
>and the Holy Ghost proceeding ineffably from the Father and the Son
The next chapter details the Papal legate sent to Britain by Pope Agatho, who attended the council
https://sacred-texts.com/chr/bede/hist104.htm
Bede is an Eastern Orthodox saint, by the way.

England being EO is a comical larp.

>>18072273 (OP)
I heard a priest i knew make this claim.

>>18074693
It was made by an insane Russian man and repeated ad nauseam by retarded orthobros

>>18072273 (OP)
Orthodogs are notorious megaLARPers. I used to have a really funny meme about it but I got rid of it and haven’t been able to find it since

>>18074238
There are Ancient Greek comics which took their matters more seriously than this guy

>>18074679
>The council's profession of the filioque is found in the account in Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People
I hope you realize that what the Orthodox reject in regards to the Filioque is the explicit theology of double procession that was dogmatized at Florence and not just any mention resembling the Filioque