Thread 18072458

Royal Scythians turned out to be genetic Finno-Ugrians at the steppe. How do slavlarpers ever survive this fact ?

>>18072458 (OP)
They even have Kra001/Yakutia_lnba component

Muahahaha, slavoids eternally destroyed by Finno-Ugric bulls. Century of larping as Scythians, all down the drain.

>>18072458 (OP)
Slavs come from the Venedii
They were forest people, not horse riders
There were a few forest dwellers who adopted steppe ways but I don't think the Venedii were one of them

>>18072492
Wend is just Germanic term for everyone living east of them. It's historical confusion, not ethnic term. Venethi at Southern Europe are some completely different group.

>>18072458 (OP)
They were the first victims of WMAF. Finnics are the opposite with their N1c ching chong male haplogroup.

>The Scythians (specifically Western or Pontic Scythians, as in differentiation from Eastern Scythian Saka) primarily emerged from the Bronze and Iron Age population of the Pontic-Caspian and Central Asian Steppe (Western Steppe Herders or "Steppe_MLBA") associated with the Andronovo culture.[455][28] Western Scythians carried diverse West Eurasian and East Eurasian maternal lineages. Initially, the Western Scythians carried only West Eurasian maternal haplogroups, however the frequency of East Eurasian haplogroups rises to 26% in samples dated from the 6th-2nd centuries BCE.[456] The East Eurasian maternal lineages were likely brought by individuals sharing affinities with modern-day Nganasan people, as well as the ancient Okunev culture.[457]

>>18072555
Genetic History of Scythia, july 2025

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ads8179

Not only Royal Scythians carried the Uralic tracer dna, one of them had Finnic type of N1c ydna.

Over all autosomally these guys are Finno-Ugrian with small pull toward Neolithic Iran.

Maybe their slaves were the slavs ?

>>18072458 (OP)
3 N1chinks samples.
The absolute majority, and all the most elite Scythians, were R1a Z93 (associated with Tajiks, Pashtuns, Kyrgyz, and Bashkirs).

>>18072634
>Similarly, among present-day Europeans, we observed the highest levels of allele sharing between Scythians and Eastern Baltic (Lithuanian, Estonian) and Northwestern Russian populations

>Most of the sampled individuals were predicted to have brown or blond hair, with a notable proportion of blue-eyed individuals (fig. S2 and table S7). Several Scythians had MC1R gene variants associated with red hair, freckles, and skin, with a tendency toward sunburn.

Also look at the PCA. Mordvinians are basically Scythian fossil in modern times.

>>18072607
n1chink scum were not the Scythian elite, they were their victims
>Below is a mummified head. Pazyryk burial mound 2, 5th-4th centuries BC.
The head of this Scythian warrior has distinctly Mongoloid features and was clearly unlucky in life—the skull is scalped and has several holes in the top; these holes may have been used to attach a strap to the saddle. Herodotus wrote of this custom:
"The Scythian warrior brings the heads of all those he slew in battle to the king. For only he who brings the head of an enemy receives his share of the spoils, and no one else does. The skin is flayed in the following manner: a cut is made around the head near the ears, then the hair is grabbed and the head is shaken free of the skin. The skin is then scraped free of flesh with an ox rib and kneaded with the hands. The Scythian warrior uses the prepared skin as a hand towel, tying it to his horse's bridle and proudly displaying it. The one who has the most such leather towels is considered the most valiant man."

>>18072654
N1chink is precisely groupped with Royal Scythians because he has exact dna of Royal Scythians. All Royal Scythians have Yakutia_lnba dna. Maybe the slaves of Royal Scythians were slavs ?

>>18072647
>Also look at the PCA. Mordvinians are basically Scythian fossil in modern times.
This is true. We also have 60% R1a. So we are close relatives of both the Balto-Slavs and the early Scythians (Sintashta culture).

>>18072664
You're not Mordovian.
>>18072458 (OP)
Scythians were literal trannies and Ukrainian Cossacks killed everything non-Slavic in the steppe.

>>18072661
steppoids didn't have slaves tho, they incorporated captures into their own

>>18072661
Having maternal Mongoloid admixture does not mean being Finno-Ugric.

>>18072683
>You're not Mordovian
)

>>18072713
>Russian Russian Russian

>>18072725
Cope

>>18072458 (OP)
Scythians were an Iranic peoples

>>18072760
But not like modern Persians or Kurds.
Rather, they resembled a mixture of Tajiks and Swedes.

This is an sample of one of the earliest Scythian cultures, apparently before they mixed with the brown aborigines of the Iranian plateau and the yellow aborigines of northern Siberia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmola_culture

>>18072795
brown mixing in the era of the formation of the early Iranian peoples

>>18072458 (OP)
Rurik was a Finn too, right? And so were the ancestors of the first Norse dynasties.
What makes the Finns so strong? Did you know the Mongols and the Romans never conquered Finland?

>>18072664
Not true...

>>18072808
This sample actually represents the yaz culture

How the avarage Scythian looked like? Swedes? No. Maybe slavs? Hmm nah.
They actually looked like and resemble tajiks, the same with majority of the iron age iranians, such as Sogdians, Sarmatians, tian shan iranics etc etc
Guys, anything above 10% bmac make you automatically non_white... related pic

>>18072876
Yes, early Iranic

>>18072900
How did*

>>18072900
>Guys, anything above 10% bmac make you automatically non_white... related pic
This is a lie. Iran N is essentially the same as CHG, and the vast majority of Europeans already have more than 10% CHG admixture, in addition to the fact that J1/J2 and other southern haplogroups are sometimes found in Europe.

>>18072709
What maternal ? There is paternal N1c Royal Scythian in the paper...

Oy vey! It gets even better! Look at F3 stats cline.. Who is closest to Royal Scythians ? Iron Age N1c Finnic boys from Estonian tarand-graves!

Aahhhahhahahahhhahhhaaa, this brilliant!!

>>18072900
We are speaking specifically Royan Scythians, not later Scythoid groups. Royal Scythians had light pigmentation, blue eyes, brown to blonde hair. They were robust people.

>>18072958
If you'd done a little research, you'd know that only three "Scythian" samples from the Altai burial ground of Ak-Alakha (people more than half mixed with Mongoloids) carried N1c (all the other men were R1a and Q).
While absolutely all Royal Scythian samples from central Kazakhstan were R1a Z93, including the famous "Golden Man from the Issyk Kurgan" (sample DA130).
They certainly weren't as white as modern Europeans. They were more likely Tajiks with Mongoloid admixture.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29743675/

>>18072998
New paper of "proto"-Royal Scythians

>https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ads8179

>Most of the sampled individuals were predicted to have brown or blond hair, with a notable proportion of blue-eyed individuals (fig. S2 and table S7). Several Scythians had MC1R gene variants associated with red hair, freckles, and skin, with a tendency toward sunburn.

These are no Tajiks or Mongols.

>>18072458 (OP)
>>18072466
Scandinavia got named after Skadi.
The battle between her father Ateas and Alexander the Greats father was a repeat of the much older Titanomachia, which was between north-western arctic steppe CwC of the north sea & baltics versus the south-eastern Yamnaya of black sea & balkan.
Njordr vs Zeus = Neptupe vs Dyeus but in different timeperiods.
Our ancestors intuitively got that the "Gods" represented the soul of their respective populations, whereas idiots of today goon over a constant supply of new and shortlived memes. Memes that only capture a snippet of time of single individuals as opposed to of entire nations.

>>18073020
>https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.ads8179
Bro, I read your article and it says they were mostly R1a.
It's all over for the Finno-Ugric hypothesis.

>>18072654
Sounds just like "scalping" done by Native Americans, especially Plains Indians, who are also an "Asian Steppe" people, from a long ago lineages, but the material and religious cultures are quite similar.

>>18072772
Finns used to be called "China Swedes" in the US until the 1900s.

So... they weren't white? They ideed called themselves as aryan, unlike slavs

>>18072964
Available on g25??

>>18072458 (OP)
No, recent genetic studies show that the Royal Scythians were not genetic Finno-Ugrians; they were a hybrid society with a primary genetic base from Bronze Age Eurasian steppe populations, an East Asian component, and European farmer admixture. Their genetic makeup shows a significant Indo-Iranian component, though not necessarily an origin from modern Finno-Ugric peoples.

>>18073648
No, all these steppe cultures weren't white

>>18072492
>Slavs come from the Venedii
Where did you get this from?

>>18073731
Byzantine sources from the 6th century. That's what they thought, but its not what historians think today. Byzantines didn't know where Slavs came from.

>>18073741
Which source? Could you give details?

>>18073434
maybe this is a common ANE tradition or something like that :)

>>18073731
The Romans obviously
And the Romans never lied

>>18073760
Getica by Jordanes:
>ab una stirpe exorti, tria nomina ediderunt, id est Veneti, Antes, Sclaveni
>although they derive from one nation, now they are known under three names, the Veneti, Antes and Sclaveni
According to historians today, the Veneti were the West Slavs, the Antes the East Slavs and the Sclaveni, the South Slavs.

>>18073775
even worse, the greek romans
but maybe the double negative cancels out, and they write truth for once

>>18073760
>>18073788
https://topostext.org/work/744

.

>>18073813
This just says the Heruli, a Germanic peoples, fought the Veneti, an Iranic people.

>>18072654
There are some amusing historical sources that report that it seems the Mordvins had a significant Scythian cultural heritage.
>In 1235, the Roman Catholic missionary and Dominican monk Julian and three companions set out with a safe conduct from the Hungarian King Bela to search for the ancient homeland of his people and their pagan kinsmen, "wishing to convert the infidels." Julian managed to first reach Volga Bulgaria, then find his kinsmen (the Hungarians) "at the great river Ethyl." On his return journey, Julian passed through the Mordvin lands, the impressions of which he described in his travelogue: "...
>I traveled along the river in fifteen days through the kingdom of the Mordvins (régnum Morduanorum). The Mordvins are pagans and so cruel that they consider anyone who has not killed many people worthless. If anyone walks along the road, they carry before him the heads of all the people he has killed, and the more heads, the better he is. "They make cups from skulls and drink readily from them. No one may marry who has not killed a man. Having learned from their prophets that they must become Christians, they sent to the prince of Great Lodomeria (Laudameriae), a Russian land neighboring them, asking him to send them a priest to baptize them. But the prince replied that this was not his business, but that of the Pope, and that the time was approaching when everyone would be forced to accept the faith of the Roman Church and submit to its authority."

>>18073788
>the Antes the East Slavs
None of these are Slavs. They ALL speak Iranic languages. This is pure delusion, writing oneself into history.

>>18073848
I guess Bulgarians speak Turkic and French people speak a Germanic language if ethnonyms decide linguistic affiliation.

>>18073837
>>18073848
Sclaveni is just straightforwardly the word byzantines use for slavs. He's saying there's 3 types of slavs, which coresponds with our modern grouping as well.

>>18073871
That's a really stupid thing to say. The entire region was Iranic. By pointing out that the Bulgars were originally Turkic you're exposing that Slavs didn't exist. By pointing to the Franks as Germanic in origin you're exposing that the French nationality is not all that old. You're making my point for me and refuting Slavdom.

>>18073910
What evidence do you have that Sclavni means Slav or were Slavic? Is there a single shred of evidence? I keep seeing this repeated and Russian sources brazenly insert parentheticals reminding readers that they think this- but there is no evidence. It seems entirely based on the letter S, L, and V appearing. This isn't a semitic abjad so these games don't work here.

>>18073677
When we get adna from Dyakovo and Gorodets cultures, you will see that they are identical to Royal Scythians in this new paper.

>>18073925
Sloveni comes from slovo, the spoken word. It means "people you can talk to". Contrast to nemci, or mutes, people you can't talk to. This is still used to refer to germans today.
The greeks wrote it as Sklabenoi, the latins as Sclaveni. Neither have the "sl" sound in words, they added an extra sound.

The people that the byzantines call sclaveni are clearly the people we today call the slaves - they settle the same places, have similar sounding tribe names, form the same alliances and later states, develop religion and alphabet.
You have to be very obtuse to argue that slavs =/= sclaveni.

>>18073918
>The entire region was Iranic.
Which region, bro? Slavs came from the swamps. Iranians didn't even live in their nearby swamp, modern southern Iraq. Why would they live in eastern european frozen swamps?

>>18073964
Proto-Indo-Iranians like Fatyanovo and Abashevo were no strangers with swamps.

>>18073988
>Proto-Indo-Iranians
Also known as "not iranians", you dumb shit. Slavic is an indo-european language too.

>>18073954
>Sloveni comes from slovo
That's not Sclaveni. Did you pick the root for Slovenia on purpose or did you typo?

>Contrast to nemci, or mutes, people you can't talk to. This is still used to refer to germans today.
That's the sort of thing Byzantines would have come up with in the 11th century.

>>18074022
>Did you pick the root for Slovenia on purpose or did you typo?
Slovenia is irrelevant here, look at old church slavonic. If you can't read it, stop responding to me with your inane schizo posts, пидep.

>>18073954
>he greeks wrote it as Sklabenoi, the latins as Sclaveni. Neither have the "sl" sound in words, they added an extra sound.
That makes zero fucking sense. That's not a particularly common phoneme in Greek. Like, at all.
>>18073964
Eastern Europe across the steppe. They were from Poland as far as Mongolia. In fact, early Celtic is basically just western Iranic, before the Bronze Age Collapse period. You could argue that all of Europe except Greece was an Iranic stomping ground.

>>18074028
>You could argue that all of Europe except Greece was an Iranic stomping ground.
You could, if you were a retarded iranian nationalist masturbating on an anime forum.

>>18074026
You don't read OC Slovonic, you just have resources bookmarked.
>>18074034
I'm not Iranian. Iranic is the pre-Avestan sweep of the IE languages. You really cannot understand history without knowing what the field looked like. Just the other day some Slav delusionist got angry because no one agreed with him that Slavs were peers with the Sumerians.

For that matter, Perun and all the rest of it is very late medieval. There's one source from the middle ages that occurs as early as the 11th century, and then radio silence. It could have been fabricated for that work for all we know.

>>18072458 (OP)
>>18072466
Anyone have the g25 coords for the EHG?
Thanks in advance.

>>18074086
Russia_EHG,0.117238,0.02945,0.126335,0.20446,-0.018773,0.058009,-0.017626,-0.029306,-0.004704,-0.083464,0.019324,-0.016036,0.029881,-0.05037,0.022122,0.030496,-0.001956,0.005448,0.001257,0.017008,-0.003494,0.02201,0.015159,-0.014942,-0.012933
glad to help

>>18073731
Jordanes and some context.
Venedi are mentioned by Ptolemy and I think Tacitus as some people living east of Vistula who live like the Germanics, but speak different language. So we have an iron-age ethnic group different from the Germans being called Venedi by mostly likely Germanic informers.
Then comes Jordanes and he claims that these Venedi are slavs. Jordanes is a secretary of a Gothic commander on Byzantine payroll guarding the Danube at the time slavs show up for the first time - he most likely had first hand contact with them and his assumption that Venedi=Slavs is either based on the latter literally telling him that fact(in which case these may still be different people's called that, mind you, the name isn't particularly unique), or telling him who do they border with and Jordanes slotting them exactly where Venedi would've to live.
Customarily we assume this assumption to be true simply because again what else would these people be but either slavs or balto-slavs. If they were anything other than these two it would show in placenames since they would be still around pretty recently but it just doesn't happen.

>>18073764
Almost all warrior cultures have some sort of trophy system. Ears, hands, noses, pps, scalps, entire heads, etc.....you could often trade them for money, or to prove you got your share of teh spoils. Even Bobba Fett has a wookie scalps on his armor.

The Japs, in true autist fashion, turned it into high art and would burn incense in their helmets prior to battle should their head be taken, it would be pleasant for their enemy. They would then clean and prepare the heads for viewing by the General and other Officers who would analyze the efficacy of the decapitation. There's quite a lot of art depicting these head viewing ceremonies.

>>18072458 (OP)
>Royal Scythians turned out to be genetic Finno-Ugrians at the steppe
No, they didn't. We've had scythian samples for ages and knew what they looked like. There's nothing finno-ugrian about them.
>>18072466
Retard alert. They just used ngassasan as the proxy for the asian admixture in scythians, which was not the uralic kind (yakutia_lnba) at all. IIRC, scythians got their east asian admixture from eastern mongolians. Slab grave culture.

>>18072492
No, they don't. Slavs come from balts who lived in mixed forest zone of eastern europe. To this day no one has been able to find the proto-slav homeland or any genetic slavs from before middle ages, and they won't ever be able to because no such thing exists. Even the so called slavic y-dna haplogroups are not actually of slavic origin, and slavs acquired them primarily by mixing with nomads. Latest studies on slavs show that the earliest slavs resemble modern south slavs like serbs and croats, which is ironic, because for the longest time it was believed that south slavs are the most mixed of the slavs, and that east slavs are the purest slavs. Turns out it was the exact opposite! These early slavs then mixed with balts after they migrated to their territory in the last quarter of 1st millennium AD, and they acquired so much baltic component that they almost mixed the slav out of themselves, which is odd, because according to slavic nationalist copers and scholars, these were supposed to be proto slavic cultures on the territory of poland, ukraine and belarus. Yet somehow genetically they were balt-like. Almost like there were never any slavs here to begin with.

>>18072634
>Also look at the PCA. Mordvinians are basically Scythian fossil in modern times.
No, they aren't. There's artificial closeness on the PCA because of similar level of base components - low EEF, high steppe/EHG, 10-15% east asian.

>>18073685
Here's what happened to Scythians:
>Aryans racemix with Baikal mutts
>start identifying more with their Asian side instead of Aryan
>SLAB BVLL TVRK MASTER RACE converts them to TENGRISM
>their descendants (Tatars and Bashkirs) now speak Turkic

>>18072772
>not like modern Persians or Kurds
That's why he said iranic, not iranian.
>Rather, they resembled a mixture of Tajiks and Swedes.
They don't, and those two have nothing in common.
>>18072795
>>18072808
>>18072811
Tasmola_LBA =/= tasmola culture, who were the typical scytho-siberians aka saka aka eastern scythians. It's not the earliest sample either. All the LBA proto scythoids were already mixed. The unmixed "scythians" would have just been typical eastern WSH like andronovo.

>>18072900
>related pic
Are you blind? Your pic shows none of the scythians were similar to tajiks. Only some of the saka groups, which had elevated levels of east asian and chg. Not to mention the g25 distance tool is completely useless, misleading and only used by mental midgets and shitposters.

>>18074712
>Tasmola_LBA =/= tasmola culture, who were the typical scytho-siberians aka saka aka eastern scythians. It's not the earliest sample either. All the LBA proto scythoids were already mixed. The unmixed "scythians" would have just been typical eastern WSH like andronovo.
This is an unfounded statement, you must support your point of view with some scientific sources.

>>18074685
>low EEF, high steppe/EHG, 10-15% east asian.
Mordvins have on average from 0 to 4% Siberian admixture.

>>18073685
The only ones with high cultures there are BMAC and Kushans.

>>18074667
>Latest studies on slavs show that the earliest slavs resemble modern south slavs like serbs and croats
This is absolutely untrue.

>>18074595
>There's nothing finno-ugrian about them.

Except the highest allele sharing with modern Finno-Ugrians (Esthonians), Uralic tracer signal (Kra001), Paterna haplogroup N1c in Royal Scythian sample (AS1).

>>18074689
>Slab Grave ching chong micropenis
>Master race

You mean Tengri was a White man who blessed Slab Grave Asian women with his normale sized penis.

>A 2003 study found that 89% of Xiongnu maternal lineages are of East Asian origin, while 11% were of West Eurasian origin. However, a 2016 study found that 37.5% of Xiongnu maternal lineages were West Eurasian, in a central Mongolian sample.[250]

>According to Rogers & Kaestle (2022), these studies make clear that the Xiongnu population is extremely similar to the preceding Slab Grave population, which had a similar frequency of Eastern and Western maternal haplogroups, supporting a hypothesis of continuity from the Slab Grave period to the Xiongnu. They wrote that the bulk of the genetics research indicates that roughly 27% of Xiongnu maternal haplogroups were of West Eurasian origin, while the rest were East Asian.[251]

>According to Rogers & Kaestle (2022), roughly 47% of Xiongnu period remains belonged to paternal haplogroups associated with modern West Eurasians, while the rest (53%) belonged to East Asian haplogroups. They observed that this contrasts strongly with the preceding Slab Grave period, which was dominated by East Asian patrilineages. They suggest that this may reflect an aggressive expansion of people with West Eurasian paternal haplogroups, or perhaps the practice of marriage alliances or cultural networks favoring people with Western patrilines.[254]

>>18072958
Iron Age estonians were balto-germanics, genetically and culturally, probably linguistically as well. There's really no evidence that they were finno-ugric in any way, and less so in genetics. On PCA they're shifted towards germanics and steppoids, in a totally different direction from OLS10 sample in IA Estonia, the 500 BCE earliest "finno-ugric" immigrant, who's actually on the uralic cline. The similarity between Estonia IA and scythians is because IA estonians have some semiluk admixture, who were scythian-balt mestizos. The nearby Ingrians from 1st snd 2nd century AD, still had mostly baltic_ba like profile, and were also not on uralic cline, so if there were finno-ugrics in iron age estonia, they were not very numerous at that time and were a minority. The tarand grave culture was balto-germanic, and continued from the earlier baltic stone cist grave culture. Also, the image you posted shows scythians had shamanka_ba, not krasnoyarsk_ba. Fucking moron.

>>18075254
Royal Scythians are clearly on Finno-Ugric to Iran Neolithic cline. Just slightly removed from main Finno-Ugric group towards Neolithic Iran. Let me know if I need to draw you an arrow idiot.

Also the check the supplementary data, highest allele sharing is between Medieval Esthonians and Scythian major. Not between Esthonians and Semiluk.

>>18075064
>Royal Scythian sample (AS1)
This is not a royal sample, it didn't even have its own mound.

>>18075273
Look here again.>>18073071
There is no N1c among the Scythians.
They have no East Asian haplos at all; their entire paternal lineage is entirely Indo-European.

>>18075092
Based, WMAF is inevitable.

>>18075092
The Scythians who formed the Xiognu were already half-Asian. They had a Slab Grave elite who was entirely Q and N who forced them to speak Turkic.
>A genetic study published in Scientific Reports in January 2020 examined the remains of 26 individuals buried at various elite Avar cemeteries in the Pannonian Basin dated to the 7th century.[58] The mtDNA of these Avars belonged mostly to East Asian haplogroups, while the Y-DNA was exclusively of East Asian origin and "strikingly homogenous", belonging to haplogroups N-M231 and Q-M242.[59] The evidence suggests that the Avar elite were largely patrilineal and endogamous for centuries, and entered the Pannonian Basin through migrations from East Asia involving both men and women.[60] Another 2020 study, but of Xiongnu remains in East Asia, found that the Xiongnu shared certain paternal (N1a, Q1a, R1a-Z94 and R1a-Z2124) and maternal haplotypes with the Huns and Avars, and says on this basis that they were descended from Xiongnu, who they in turn suggested were descended from Scytho-Siberians.

>>18075313
>>18075322
Since apparently you can not read PCA I made it easy for you. Difference between Finno-Ugrians and Scythians is that latter have Iran_N admix, which is why the cline is there.

>>18075565
More:
>According to Lee & Kuang, the main paternal lineages of 62 Xiongnu Elite remains in the Egiin Gol valley belonged to the paternal haplogroups N1c1, Q-M242, and C-M217. One sample from Duurlig Nars belonged to R1a1 and another to C-M217. Xiongnu remains from Barkol belonged exclusively to haplogroup Q. They argue that the haplogroups C2, Q and N likely formed the major paternal haplogroups of the Xiongnu tribes, while R1a was the most common paternal haplogroup (44.5%) among neighbouring nomads from the Altai mountain, who were probably incorporated into the Xiongnu confederation and may be associated with the Jie people.[2
So basically, ancient Eliot Rodgers were ruled by Mongolchads and converted to TENGRISM. The elite was of exclusively Asian y-dna.

>>18074132
Thanks a lot.

>>18075609
VGH
The BMW 328i was his steed, the SIG Sauer his composite bow

>>18072492
Nah, they likely don’t, but they do probably come from the south-Baltic region. Venedii is likely just a tribal name which has swapped ethnicity numerous times over millenia. Wendels, AKA Vandals, for example, are recorded by ancient authors as being a Celtic tribe, then a Sarmatian one, and then a Germanic one, followed by becoming a Slavic one.

>>18075273
https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#WestEurasia
There are no scythians on the uralic cline. Western Steppe Herders plot between Ukrainian HGs and CHGs, which is consistent with their aDNA. Scythians are between Steppe_MLBA, CHG and Slab Grave.

>>18075313
>>18075322
OP is a fucking moron pushing his own retarded pet theory that no scientific paper supports, or even any credible geneticist blogger. AS1 is from 30 BCE Crimea, at which point there were no scythian kingdoms left, and the remaining scythians in Crimea had mixed with tauri and fully embraced sedentary lifestyle. This one late scythian sample out of hundreds (>>18072634) is his proof that scythians were finno-ugrics. FFS.

>>18075602
M8, you're utterly retarded. Go back to school and learn how to read data properly. These modern finno-ugric populations did not exist in the iron age. They are a result of mixing between balts, slavs, turkics, finno-ugrics and germanics in medieval and post-medieval age. During the scythian era most finno-ugrics would have looked like Saami (Finland_Levaluhta_LIA-EMA, Russia_Volga_Oka_LIA) or Udmurts (Pyanoborskaya samples and Russsia_Mazunino_LIA). Your "main finno-ugric" cluster is bunch of europeans with 5-10% east asian admixture, which is less than what cimmerians, scythians and sarmatians had on average. Look at where the udmurts and saami are on the map you posted. Your shitty cline does not work at all. And no there's no cline between pyanoborskaya/saami/udmurts and scythians either. Scythians are primarily pulling from Steppe_MLBA/LBA sources towards CHG and Slab Grave/Glazkovo/Shamanka sources, and to lesser extent some samples are pulling towards thracians, greeks and balts.

>>18075950
>These modern finno-ugric populations did not exist in the iron age. They are a result of mixing between balts, slavs, turkics, finno-ugrics and germanics in medieval and post-medieval age. During the scythian era most finno-ugrics would have looked like Saami (Finland_Levaluhta_LIA-EMA

Holy fuck you have some really bad reading issues. What is Esthonian IA ? What is OLS10 ?

0LS10,0.12716238,0.08435532,0.08354664,0.07162076,0.02471638,0.02415566,0.01157974,0.01709168,-0.00364084,-0.03208554,0.0039178,-0.0087893,0.01765298,0.00895152,-0.00925238,-0.00499088,-0.00378544,-0.00304092,-0.00220122,-0.00438772,0.00054622,-0.0002583,-0.00796314,0.00434536,-0.00244277

>>18075609
You got it backwards. The earliest xiongnu samples had mostly west eurasian paternal lines (R1a, R1b, J2a) and some scythian Q1b clades. They were saka tribes who had incorporated slab grave mongols into their pack, and mixed heavily with their women, to the point that the later xiongnu had west eurasian paternal lines but mostly (90%+) east eurasian admixture. Eventually mongoloids just took over altogether and became the ruling elite. For some reason steppoids never managed to expand into mongolia proper. I guess the climate there was just far too extreme for them to bother. -40C winters in the north and +30C summers in the south. No wonder mongols became such tough motherfuckers.

>>18076013
The people they keep calling "Xiognu" in those studies include Scytho-Siberians. They were already heavily mixed with Asians before coming in contact with Turco-Mongols. Basically a bunch of Eliot Rodgers ruled by Mongols.

>>18076056
^Bashkirs, not Elliots

>>18073918
>The entire region was Iranic.
That's a really stupid thing to say.

>>18076013
>Eventually mongoloids just took over altogether and became the ruling elite.

Pure Mongoloid Xiongnu lived on the border with China and got incredbly rich from raping and sacking China for centuries. The Xiongnu king Chanyu was mostly Han chinese from all the chinese women raped by his ancestors.

>A likely chanyu, a male ruler of the Empire identified by his prestigious tomb, was shown to have had similar ancestry as a high status female in the "western frontiers", deriving about 39.3% Slab Grave (or Ancient Northeast Asian) genetic ancestry, 51.9% Han (or Yellow River farmers) ancestry, with the rest (8.8%) being Saka (Chandman) ancestry.[150]

>>18075994
>What is Esthonian IA ?
Not finno-ugric.
>18075994
>What is OLS10 ?
Heavily mixed outlier, and also the only ancient sample from baltics that's actually on the uralic cline. That said, he only had 4% Krasnoyarsk_BA, so he was hardly a representative finno-ugric man of his time. It's like looking at 95% east asian and 5% steppe mongols and declaring them to be indo-european speaking aryans. On my map, I have mistakenly called him Estonia_IA_ProtoFinnic but he does not actually cluster with any ancient or modern finnics.

>>18076269
OLS10 is N1c, buried in Tarand-grave (burial tradition that stems from older Finno-Ugric Dyakovo culture), has Uralic genetic signal. This guy is somekind of proto-Finn, before heavy Germanic admix. He is also very similar to Royal Scythians autosomally, minus Iran_N. You have to do some serious mental acrobatics to discard this guy as representative of early Baltic Finns. He would perfectly fit inside main Finno-Ugric cluster in PCA.

>>18076454
>buried in Tarand-grave (burial tradition that stems from older Finno-Ugric Dyakovo culture)
There's no actual evidence that Dyakovo is a finno-ugric culture, and they cremated their dead, which is why we have zero dyakovo culture samples. Tarand graves were built above ground and made completely out of stone, unlike dyakovo "houses of dead". Already you have massive contradiction and discontinuity between these two cultures. Not to mention that the earliest tarand graves predate formation of dyakovo culture or its burial tradition. It's clear that Tarand graves were largely an evolution of the earlier stone cist graves and it was the marker of the new balto-germanic people who had spread through northern and coastal Latvia and Estonia, south-west Finland, Aland, and Eastern Central Sweden during LBA period.

>This guy is somekind of proto-Finn
No, he is not any kind of proto-finn. It's impossible for him to be proto-finnic. He has a completely different genetic profile to any known finno-ugric samples. He has a lot of EHG, a lot of Baltic_BA and very little Yakutia_LNBA, less than ancient and modern finnics. He was an oddball outlier. I'm certain that the finno-ugrics who arrived in Estonia sometime in the iron age had a lot more east asian in them. They were probably similar to Pyanoborskaya samples, because during this period there were active trade contacts from central Sweden all the way to Volga-Kama region. It seems reasonable that it would be the ancestors of Pyanoborskaya culture responsible for moving goods from Kama to Sweden.

>He is also very similar to Royal Scythians autosomally, minus Iran_N
Completely false.

>You have to do some serious mental acrobatics to discard this guy as representative of early Baltic Finns. He would perfectly fit inside main Finno-Ugric cluster in PCA.
Are you blind, you goddamn retard? Do you not see the PCA I posted? 0LS10 is completely outside of any finno-ugric cluster.

>>18076013
Steppe people expanded into Mongolia however they mixed almost immediately with the natives and about 1/5 of Mongols are paternally Western and roughly the same amount autosomally Western.
steppe groups seemed to favor harsh locations like upper Siberia and the Tarim desert for some reason.

>>18077312
The odd blonde, blue-eyed Mongol still pops up from time to time. They really do look like Sami, of uber-Finns. Same "Asian" bone structure, but with Euro features.

>>18072654
That's fucking terrifying lol.

>>18072760
Iranic meaning they speak a "aryan" language. The indo uropeans spread everywhere. But the languages that decended from the ones that migrated to central asia and Iran and Indian sub continent are called the aryan language group.

>>18073434
Scalping wasn't origonaly done by them though. Europeans introduced it to them.

>>18077312
Bc they were pastoralists. They wanted lots of open steppe for their horses and sheep and other livestock. Thry don't care about farming or nice areas for the whether. Just places for the animals that graze.

>>18077633
....and the Euros got it from the Scythians.

Hooray! We've come full circle.

>>18075609
>>18076013
Although the most elite burial of the Xiongnu ruler in Mongolia still has R1a.
Ironically, dozens of people were sacrificed at his funeral.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzBvIw5lxQ

>>18077104
Tarand graves are just local version of Dyakovo's Houses of Dead. There are only stone foundations left of those houses. Those stone foundations are called "Tarand grave".

Pyanobor's roots came from eastern half of Ananyino culture, and indeed are very likely ALSO Uralic speakers (perhaps early Ugrians).

Ananyino, Dyakovo and Gorodets culture all share the same Textile ceramics culture background, which replaced Abashevo and Fatyanovo cultures in forest-steppe/swamps.

You are just simply ignorant on the topic. All of these cultures btw had strong connection to Scythian world, which we now see also in ancient proto-Scythian dna.

>>18078015
Dyakovo's House of the dead. You can't dig something like that in rocky coastal lands of Baltic. You simply build it above ground and use stone foundations. Simple as that. Also note the similarity between Dyakovo's house of the dead and Timber grave culture aka Srubnaya burials.

>>18078029
Srubnaya grave, same timber structures. They simply build the mound around it.

>>18078029
>>18078032
Srubnaya is a Proto-Indo-Iranian culture.

>>18073071
>>18072811
Cтacян зaйди в кaлфy этo вaжнo
https://t.me/+rHUi0_-aWqYzOGEy

Holy fuck this thread is autistic. If there were flags on /his/ there would definitely be a lot of Russian ones.
When you have a subhuman low IQ autistic brain and a culture of "well I don't care about objective facts, I like it more my way because it makes me feel good" you get endless gibberish.
Okay so wrap this up
>Scythians had Finno-Ugric admixture
Very, very rarely. Basically never,
West Scythians had East Scythian admixture which contained Mongolia/Altai-related heritage on a somewhat different branch than the Krasnoyarsk_BA in Uralics, which links with Saqqaq culture of Greenland by autosome and Neolithic-era Trans-Baikal samples by Y-DNA.
So basically, you had an admixture event of people from east of lake Baikal mixing with a population to the north of them(from the ancestral region of Saqqaq) with some degree of ANE. While it's broadly the same thing as the Mongolian heritage in East Scythians which is an older mix of similar components they can always be differentiated when in sufficient quantities due to drift.
Secondly, yes the samples like 0LS10 from Estonia are closest to Finnics although they are obviously not identical since there were admixture events posterior to this era. It's pretty pointless to argue otherwise since their source area was eastern and their genotypes match.

>>18078169
Finns are yellow

>>18078181
Which relates to Russians vomiting autistic gibberish how?

>>18078169
Look at here

>>18072466

Proto-Scythians from Don river already have "Nganasan" signal, infact more than some modern day Uralic speakers. This has nothing to do later Scythian expansion to Siberia. They had it from day 1. I do aggree that Russians tend to be low IQ retards.

>>18078197
This doesn't affect the fact that the Scythians were R1a.
and the Uralic languages are related to n1chinks.

>>18078188
Russians (Slavs) conquered Finns.

>>18078197
But any admixture more closely related to Nganasan than to Han would pick the Nganasan component in the absence of a proper Mongol reference. Btw, the Asian heritage in places like Smolensk, Kursk etc is probably via the local Balto-Scythians who had a high ratio of Mongol to Sintashta by West Scythian standards.

>>18078209
Russians mainly assimilated people who cluster with Northern Russians(15% Siberian) and Udmurts(25% Siberian). Finns cluster much closer to Tver Russians(4% Siberian) than to Northern Russians.

>>18078212
I believe that Scythian (Sarmatian) admixture among the Mordvins and some Eastern Slavs is more likely to account for the elevated WSH levels, along with some additional influence of Caucasian/Iran N origin. It is more pronounced than in other Northern Europeans.

>>18078214
What a cope lmao. Northern Russians are identical to Finns, and the same people also live in southern Siberia and the Volga-Ural region, the poorest regions of Russia.

>>18078209
Dyakovo culture area degenerated with arrival of slavoids. They had great metallurgy and highly stratified society. Some radiocarbon datings indicate that Dyakovo's final days were already 200 years before (recent) arrival of Slavs in that area..but I suspect freshwater reservoir effect is in play here. In any case preceding Dyakovo culture was much more advanced that primitive slavoids who replaced it.

>>18078228
Yeah we conquered you and turned you into slaves. Now Finnish orcs (and their Yakut kin) get drafted to die in Ukraine.

>>18078229
I'm sorry (actually happy!) but I have nothing to do with Russians, just an objective observer here.

>>18078226
No they obviously aren't, but that's beside the point. You keep trying to deflect from the fact that it is Russian autists shit up this board with endless fake results, with more fake results.
>>18078218
The enaree in Voronezh were not strictly Scythian-like. Their Balto-Slavic ancestry tends southward and doesn't differentiate so much from Slavs.
Target: Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS90__BC_300__Cov_93.25%
Distance: 2.2367% / 0.02236680
54.2 Ukraine_Medieval.SG
25.0 Russia_MLBA_Sintashta
15.8 Lithuania_BA
5.0 Mongolia_North_N

A lot of the Sintashta is probably some type of Trzciniec btw so that just means their Mongol ancestors were even more Mongol. But anyway, there's a reasonable transition from that enaree the modern day femboys in Voronezh.

Target: Russian_Voronez
Distance: 1.3315% / 0.01331548
49.0 Ukraine_Medieval.SG
27.0 Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS90__BC_300__Cov_93.25%
24.0 Lithuania_BA

>>18078244
We conquered 4cuck and we will conquer naton soon. Seethe tranny.

>>18078247
The truth is the Russians on 4chan are all hopeless, weak, inherently feminine spergs whose guts would be rearranged by homosexual rapists as a correction measure in the Russian armed forces for their inability to perform basic tasks.

>>18078254
>the Russian armed forces
Only poorfags are drafted who ovewhemingly are Finns lol.

>>18078266
Typical russoid. All his arguments were total bs, so derail the topic.

>>18078266
Nice try, but your mongrel faggots from Nizhny Novgorod aren't Finns just because they are 4-8% Siberian. Finns always have Germanic ancestry too. You could argue that the Pomors like Lomonosov are more Finnish-like than other Russians, but Scandinavian admixture drops to zero at the latitude of St. Pidorsburg and in any case we don't want your Pomors either.

>>18078276
>tsar those are zainichi tatars tsar
Lmao.
>>18078273
Take the L pigger.

The experience of talking with a Russian is always the same even if the Russian changes
>Russian generates information in xer ziggertrannybrain and presents it as an alternative fact
>post actual evidence that refutes it
>Russian asserts that generated evidence is accurate; proceeds to again move the topic to shitflinging to distract from getting btfo
>call out Russian for inability to argue like a nontranny
>Russian again asserts that generated evidence is accurate; proceeds to move the topic to shitflinging to distract from getting btfo
>>18078289
No, they are 100% Russkiy.
Russians are a mongrel urnoviop race with various but always mixed origins who are united by a shared love for homosexual intercourse and pedoshit.
I'm not saying Lomonosov wasn't a Russian, because he had better genes than other Russians with I1 even being more common than R1a among many Pomor groupings.
Trying to divide Russians into the urtroons and tatartroons and scanditroons is just not a meaningful exercise.

>>18078244
Samples anon, am sure you didn't sampled slav warmongers who are now deployed, but a sweet russian finn at the university

The race you complain about is not the one you tested

>>18078308
What else can you except from people whom's language was created by French speaking Negro.

>>18078015
>Tarand graves are just local version of Dyakovo's Houses of Dead.
That can't be the case simply because tarand graves predate dyakovo houses of dead by several centuries. If these two burial traditions are connected then dyakovo houses of dead would have to be derived from tarand graves. Not to mention that this burial tradition was very rare. In the overwhelming majority of cases there were no cemeteries or burials found near dyakovo settlements at all. They either drowned their dead or left them out in the open for the nature to take its course.

>There are only stone foundations left of those houses. Those stone foundations are called "Tarand grave".
Perhaps. What was supposed to be above the stones if anything at all, is nothing more than speculation.
>Dyakovo and Gorodets culture all share the same Textile ceramics culture background, which replaced Abashevo and Fatyanovo cultures in forest-steppe/swamps.
Yes, and none of these cultures were finno-ugric. There are no known N1a carriers or people with clear mongoloid characteristics found in eastern europe before 600 BCE. The first N1a is found in those iron age Estonia samples, and the first people with mongoloid skulls were found in Ananyino culture.

>>18078029
>Dyakovo's House of the dead. You can't dig something like that in rocky coastal lands of Baltic. You simply build it above ground and use stone foundations. Simple as that.
Of course you can. LMAO. What kind of retarded statement is that? Do you think baltic coastland is like Iceland? And they built tarand graves inland as well. They used stone because that was a common feature of all the burial traditions in this period of time in the northern half of the Baltic Sea region. Clearly it had cultural, religious and aesthetic significance.

>>18079266
Furthermore, tarand graves were always built near stone cist graves and other burial types in large cemetery complexes. This was not some sort of foreign culture that displaced or assimilated the locals. Some of the Estonia_IA samples come from non-tarand graves, including one from a stone cist grave burial. These two burial traditions (and others) coexisted for centuries, and even when stone cist graves went out of fashion, the people continued to bury their dead in them or next to them all the way into middle ages. So these iron age and early medieval estonians still considered themselves descendants of bronze age estonians.

>>18078169
>Secondly, yes the samples like 0LS10 from Estonia are closest to Finnics although they are obviously not identical since there were admixture events posterior to this era. It's pretty pointless to argue otherwise since their source area was eastern and their genotypes match.
In what way? He does not resemble any ancient or modern finno-ugrics. In fact, he doesn't resemble any population at all because he's clearly an outlier. Look at any PCA you want, he's shifted away from everyone.

You can't tell what language he spoke or what culture he considered himself part of from genes alone. Some of the wielbark goths had N1a and Krasnoyarsk_BA admixture. These must have been descendants of those finno-ugrics who had extensive trade contacts with swedes in the pre-roman iron age. Are they finnics now too? It's pretty retarded to assume that anyone with over 0.1% east asian in them is automatically a finngol.

>>18079435
>Krasnoyarsk_BA
Cluster with andronovo and Sintashta

>>18079468
Assuming you're not retarded, you're probably thinking of Krasnoyarsk_MLBA, who were andronovo. Krasnoyarsk_BA is the 2200 BCE proto-ural.

>>18072458 (OP)
Well Russians are largely Finno-Ugric themselves

>>18072526
Where do you redditors think slavs came from? Did they just emerge from the dirt and appear out of nowhere? I can't stand this pseudo-intellectual autistic academic bullshit it's obvious the venedi are proto-slavs to anyone who isn't a cancerous redditor. They even found remains of log huts that look really similar to later slavic variants in iron age sites exactly where Tacitus describes the venedi inhabiting.

>>18078209
Ironic you say that, because they actually didn't. Medieval russians look like balts or finno-ugrics for the most part, so it seems it was more like they were assimilated into local tribes in russia when they migrated there, rather than the other way around. Modern "russians" have mostly non-slavic Y-DNA and their autosomal profile is all over the place, because there's no such thing as an actual russian ethnicity. It's bunch of balto-uralo-germano-slavic mestizos who are nothing alike.

>>18072458 (OP)
>>18072466
Poles and Magyars are brother-in-arms

>>18075764
Huh. TIL I guess. I thought they were proto-Slavs based on conventional history
I may have read it through a Roman lens though
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Veneti

>>18079489
No, they also cluster with andronovo