Thread 18081844

How do we get our brothers and sisters of the LDS faith to forsake its false prophet and go back to the original word of Christ?

They can't be saved. Mormonism is the perfect satanic decoy religion for the world, it's without flaw. The only achielles heel of their cult is that it was created by fake angels.

Holy Ghost says it's real.

>>18081844 (OP)
If you don't understand it better than the people you want to convert, then you won't win anyone.

>>18081844 (OP)
Does it even really matter if it's fake? Mormons are better people than the vast majority of professing Christians.

>>18081890
>Mormons are better people than the vast majority of professing Christians.
They have a more united front than the broken mess that is Protestantism in America, so they have a somewhat more cohesive fellowship; other than that what makes them special?

>>18081890
>does truth matter
yes

>>18081844 (OP)
Mormonism is exactly the same as Christianity. If you could believe a guy adding to a religion once, there's no reason to believe that could never happen again.

>>18081895
They emphasize family values, clean living, have a robust missionary program, and (at least claim to) have a living prophet on Earth at all times. Not hard to see what makes them so attractive compared to other denominations.

>>18081918
no its not
Mormonism rejects premises in the nicene creed which makes it objectively not a form of christianity

>>18081923
The Book of Mormon is from Africa, and the LDS church is held back by still trying to say it is imaginary and from America.

>>18081844 (OP)
>3rd thread on Mormonism today
The devil and his golems of worldliness are working overtime today. Nothing pisses off Satan more than Jesus Christ's one true church upon the earth and reading its scriptures of the latter days.

>>18081925
I mean they have the same context for their formation. Jesus added shit to Judaism, why can't Joseph Smith add shit to Christianity?

>>18081939
ok this is an athiest speaking. There is just a massive gap in knowledge that would make this discussion impossible.

>>18081890
You might be right, but you live a lie and you can't help anybody. The truth sets people free.

>>18081939
>Jacob 5:64 - Wherefore, dig about them, and prune them, and dung them once more, for the last time, for the end draweth nigh.

>>18081925
>my church is true because it has the correct accretive philosophy
My church is true because God and Jesus Christ handpicked it's founder as a prophet of the final dispensation.

>>18081939
>Added shit to Judaism
I know you mean the Torah, but the thing is, Jesus never really contradicted it, he just came to progress it and fulfill it. (Hence why we no longer have to give a shit about Jewish dietary slop guidelines for salvation)

>>18081968
Jewish diet is still correct though

>>18081974
Interesting thing about it is that nutritionists of the modern age looked at the "clean and unclean animals" and concluded "Yeah, that's actually pretty right". The point isn't to eat any animal you want, but rather the guardian of "mosiac law" being the key to adhere to for your salvation. The key is Christ, not the Mosaic Law.

>>18081985
It all hangs on the golden rule, even the 10 or 12 commandments

>>18081989
Whatchu talking about, Willis?

>Added shit to Christianity
I know you mean the Biblical Canon, but the thing is, Joseph Smith never really contradicted it, he just came to progress it and fulfill it further. (Hence why we no longer have to give a shit about denominational commandments of man for salvation)
>>18081939

>>18082005
He ABSOLUTELY contradicted it.

>>18081865
The Book of Abraham, from their other scriptural work The Pearl of Great Price, was literally scientifically proven to be a fraud and they still claim it as scripture.

>>18082111
r/science

>>18082120
b-b-but feels over reals!

I invite any Mormon to debate me over how Joseph Smith contradicts the Bible. It won't be an exercise on my part to be some smug elitist, but I just want them to see the truth. It's an open invitation, lads, just ask.

>>18082127
Like with Abraham in the book of Genesis, how God tested his faith

>>18082013

Jews say that about Jesus. The teachings of the savior confound all who will not hear them.

>>18082156
Still fake, yes I'll accept your concession.

>>18082165
I believe the Book of Abraham is real, and understand how it can be hard. It is a stumbling block set to make people who won't hear it from God and trust him and the Holy Ghost not be able to understand.

God made Mormonism the way he did so it would be there and yet generally neglected, and proves many good things by it. I can explain it if someone >>18082152 wants.

Of course, I wouldn't recommend following the word of man, but testing the Book of Abraham, the Book of Mormon, etc. out for yourself, to see if it speaks truth to your heart. I have a strong testimony of the Holy Ghost so I can help if anybody wants to weigh the LDS canon for truthfulness.

>>18082173
May I ask you something? You believe in a Spiritual Mother, The Godhead (God in 3 separate forms, but not in sync with each other), and Man can become God, correct?

>>18082513
>Spiritual Mother
That is nowhere in the BoM, D&C or PGP; I have no knowledge of the concept.
>Godhead (3 separate forms, but not in sync with each other)
One God, one deity, one divinity; orthodox monotheism; eternally-begotten Word which is divine and of the same essence, which was made incarnate in Jesus by conception of the Holy Ghost; the Holy Ghost being the manifestation of God in the world, or, the spiritual presence.
>Man can become God
Exaltation is more in line with the plan of salvation; intelligence itself is of God and is governed by God, and he breathes it into matter to create life; we are life of God's breath; "Ye are gods" refers to our being intelligent and having agency, which makes us like the governing angels who are likened to gods, but are not confused with the Godhead or God the person/the father, or the essence, being separate beings, not to be worshipped.

The Book of Mormon being the keystone of a man's faith requires that he has puzzled out everything else, and can see the book for the true beauty of it, without constraint, only by vision, and revelation of the Holy Ghost to the mind and spirit.

>>18081844 (OP)
>How do we get our brothers and sisters of the LDS faith
They are not our brothers. They are not our sisters. They are ministers of the Devil.
>to forsake its false prophet and go back to the original word of Christ?
I suspect that once they go on their two year mission trip, God rejects them permanently and hardens their hearts so that they can never believe the truth. I'd rather spend my time telling the Gospel to people who want to hear it and won't lie to me. Have you ever saved a single person? How about you start there and then worry about the Mormons.

>>18081844 (OP)
>How do we get our brothers and sisters of the LDS faith to forsake its false prophet and go back to the original word of Christ?
Just keep telling them that they are a cult, similar to the impostor religion of Talmudic "Judaism" and Mohammedanism. They are a cult and they contradict the Bible.

>>18082564
Joseph Smith was quite clear in describing God and Jesus as distinct figures on The Pearl of Great Price. One even pointed to the other and said
>This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
>>18082513
they believe in three distinct characters with a common purpose.

>>18081936
>>18082152
>>18082847
What gets me is the abysmal difference in quality between the two scriptures. When reading the Bible, you come across books of very different genres (poetry and music, philosophical treatises, epistles, legal codes, etc.), which makes sense given that they were written by different people at different times. The Book of Mormon in general is the same shit from beginning to end, despite its narrative supposedly covering a thousand years of history . Reading it will give you the same feeling as watching a puppet show with a bad puppeteer, the kind who tries to portray different characters without changing their mannerisms.

>>18083802
>Poetry and parallelism
2 Nephi 4:16-35 (Psalm of Nephi) cf Psalm 51 and 42
Alma 36 (Macro chaismus) cf Psalm 3 and 23
Mosiah 2-5 (Covenant hymn-sermon) cf Deut 32 and Psalm 95
2 Nephi 9:17-20 (Jacob's Praise Hymn) Repeated anaphora, cf Isaiah 12 and Psalm 145
Helaman 12:1-6 (Prophetic lamentation) alternates between praise of Gods power and lament of mans foolishness, cf Psalm 103, Job 7
>Philosophy/theology
2 Nephi 2 (Opposition in all things, purpose of the fall, metaphysical argumentation) cf Romans 5
Alma 12-13 (God's foreknowledge, priesthood after a holy order) cf Hebrews 4-7
Alma 42 (reconciliation of justice and mercy through Christs atonement) cf Romans 3 and 5
Mormon 9:12-24 (rational appeal to faith and miracles) cf 1 Cor 12-13, Hebrews 13
>Legal and covenantal codes
Mosiah 29 (Constitutional reform, the move from kings to judges) cf Deut 17:14-20 and 1 Samuel 8
Mosiah 2-6 (Sinai-style covenant renewal) cf Exodus 19-24 and Joshua 24
Alma 1 (Trial procedure for a typological antichrist figure - witnesses, examination, written record, sentencing, final judgement. Focus on public disturbance and blasphemy laws) cf Ezra and Nehemiah, Paul's hearings in Acts.
Alma 30 (similar to Alma 1 for a different figure - trial for religious homicide and false authority)
3 Nephi 18 (Sacramental code from Christ himself) cf Matthew 26, 1 Cor 11
>Wisdom literature
Mosiah 4:9-30 (Gods knowledge vs man's, duty to the poor, wise stewardship) Similar to Proverbs
Alma 41:10 ("Wickedness was never happiness") Reads like something from Proverbs
Moroni 7 (discerning good from evil) cf Proverbs and James
Many more prverbs, too many to list.
>Epistles
Alma 5 (To the church in Zarahemla)
Alma 7 (To the church in Gideon)
Alma 56-62 (wartime Military correspondence)
Mormon 7-9 (Epistle from Mormon to Moroni, his son)
Moroni 8-10 (More epistles between Mormon and Moroni.)

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1492&context=jbms Stylometric Analysis

>>18083802
>>18083885
re: that Stylometric analysis study, it shows youre not up to date with your anti-mormon apologetics by saying it lacks diverse voices or mannerisms of the characters. The trendy explanation now is to claim that each of the different characters is one of Joseph Smiths and/or his inner circle's alter egos lol.

>>18082173
>Heavenly Mother
speculation, not canon, no revelations on her. Actually there are quite a few "deep doctrines" that we are at liberty to speculate on (which is a point against the church being a cult)
>Godhead
The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are 1 God in 3 beings. They are "one" the way a family or a team is "one," the way a man and woman become "one" flesh. Their oneness and unity is a perfectly harmonious relationship, not creedal metaphysical oneness of substance. They are one in the way that Christ prayed for us to be "one" with them in John 17:20-23

>>18083914
Meant to reply to >>18082513
(cont)

>Exaltation
That oneness, as it manifests in the next life, culminates in us having the exact same kind of physical resurrected and glorified bodies that Christ had after the first Easter. We dont "become God" but become the same kind of being that God is. Our human nature perfected through Christ is the divine nature. We become elohim. Elohim in the Bible means “gods” or “divine beings.” Scripture uses it for the Most High and, in a lower sense, for His delegated servants, like judges or heavenly beings (Psalm 82:1,6. Exodus 22:8-9,28). Jesus cites this to show that those who receive and reflect God’s word can rightly bear His title in a derivative way, but never as rivals to the Father (John 10:34-36). In Christ we are adopted as sons and daughters, become partakers of the divine nature, and joint-heirs with Him, conformed to His image, ultimately sharing His glory by grace (Romans 8:14-17,29; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 3:2; 2 Corinthians 3:18). This destiny is embodied, not abstract. The risen Lord has flesh and bone, and He will fashion our bodies like His glorious body in the resurrection (Luke 24:39, Philippians 3:21, 1 Corinthians 15:42-49). So through Christ we become “elohim” in the biblical, subordinate sense, holy and glorified children in the Father’s family, still worshiping the one God forever.

>>18081844 (OP)
Do mainstream protestants/Baptists not realize that their own faith appears as much as fiction to third parties as LDS appears to them?

If you read the history and prehistory of the US in depth, you would confidently claim LDS is a hoax. Somehow reading the history of the Roman Empire, church history, the Reformation and the Greek influence behind mainstream Christianity isn't acceptable by these anti-LDSers for being irreligious.

>>18083885
Anons, notice how the different literary genres are spread throughout the book (see the repeated references to Alma and Nephi in the post above), whereas in the Bible they are generally organized in a more distinct way? This is because whoever wrote the Book of Mormon was far more concerned with writing a coherent narrative for the whole thing (the different genres merely sprinkled here and there to give the work the flavor of reading the KJV Bible) than the different authors compiled in the Bible.

>>18083926
>the Greek influence behind mainstream Christianity
The New Testament was written in Greek and I don't know people who have problems with that.
>If you read the history and prehistory of the US in depth, you would confidently claim LDS is a hoax.
Yes but you don't even need to go that far to know it's false.
>Somehow reading the history of the Roman Empire, church history, the Reformation
Do you think this contradicts Christianity or something?

any religious “thought” or “progress” emanating from America is automatically null and avoid and nothing more than the whinging of cultist troglodyte.

>>18084024
Why is that?

>>18081879
Nobody wants to convert people up, they just want to convert people out. Nobody wants to comprehend why some people would choose to believe one thing or another, they just want them to conform to their presuppositions.

>>18081844 (OP)
Import two million Congolese Catholics into Utah, and black the locals

>>18081844 (OP)
Keep on telling them what Mormonism actually believes: God was a mortal who ascended to godhood, and is just one of many many gods in the universe; he has a harem in heaven, has a wife that is the heavenly mother; he and his harem produced a lot of children; his two oldest are twins: Jesus and Lucifer; those two twins had a falling out, and the majority of God's children sided with Jesus, but a third joined Lucifer, so they were kicked out of heaven and sent to Earth; those who didn't joint the fight were turned to Black people, while those that joined Jesus were turned to White people; God went down to Earth and had sex with Mary so she could conceive Jesus; and finally, everyone that believes in Mormon Jesus will themselves become Gods and have a heavenly harem.

It's always hilarious seeing Mormons try to say, "No, that's not what we believe".

>>18085492
What about Rwandan Sedevacantist Anglicanism instead?

Why do mormons keep denying they don't believe in a heavenly mother, when their whole religion is based on god fucking and producing spiritual offspring? What the hell?

>>18086375
Cults work by constantly changing their claims based on where they are currently. Once they've given up on the truth of the Gospel, they feel a kind of freedom to change their beliefs to the convenience of what company they find themselves in. Only Christianity breaks this doomed trend by staying unwaveringly and concretely with the Holy Bible, which is God's word.

"Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:"
(Hebrews 6:17-18)

Cults don't have that. Mormons don't have God's word. They can only try to recalibrate and modulate their beliefs based on who they're talking to. Under certain circumstances, you could get them to say they believe anything. Same for similar cults like Talmudic "Judaism" and so forth. Thus why you see such inconsistency.

>>18086479
>Only Christianity breaks this doomed trend by staying unwaveringly and concretely with the Holy Bible, which is God's word.
Except most christians

>>18083914
>speculation, not canon, no revelations on her. Actually there are quite a few "deep doctrines" that we are at liberty to speculate on (which is a point against the church being a cult)
See:
>>18086375

>>18084678
It's an ass-mad Europoor, just ignore it.

>>18086375
Because Mormonism only works so long as the congregants remain ignorant of what their beliefs actually are: >>18086324

>>18081867
No, it doesn't. That's your brain lying to you. Goddamn humans too much grey matter for their own good.
>Pray about it
>Don't use your reason
>Don't believe the obvious fact that it is falsehood

>>18088805
Yes, Mormons (including those cleancut missionaries with wondrous silly tales about families being together forever) will claim ignorance when confronted with the beliefs of their cult. Perhaps they really don't know, most people aren't interested in theology. But I'd guess that there is a certain amount of subterfuge in some Mormons, trying to hide or run away from the insane theology of their religion.

>>18088849
I've seen it first hand. A Mormon was having a religious debate/discussion with a Christian. The Christian pointed out that Mormons are polytheists.

>Mormon:We're not polytheists, we only worship one god, the heavenly father
>Christian: Polytheism does not necessarily mean that you worship one god. Ancient pagan societies often only worshiped one god, but they believed in multiple gods that were equal/sort of equal/or had their domain. In Babylon, the people worshiped Marduk, but they believed in multiple gods that had control over different spheres. Mormons are the same. They believe in a Heavenly father that is god of Earth, but believe that there are multiple heavenly fathers for different planets and that someday each Mormon will become equal to god and will rule over a planet with a harem.
>Mormon: We don't believe that
>Christian: do you want me to show you from your own texts and your own prophets
>Mormon: ...

>>18088873
Ye are gods

>>18088849
I don't think it's disingenuous lying from Mormons, I genuinely think they've been indoctrinated to believe it, and when pressed and contradicted on that belief, it was a rebuttal that never entered their head when they shared the belief. Mormons are nice people, but they have higher standards for trying to stay "holy" than other people, and that requires an immense amount of self-deception to maintain that "holiness" every day. I feel sorry for them, and just wished they could break free from this false religion and go back to Christ.

>>18081844 (OP)
>over 1/3 of the board right now is HURR DURR RELIGION

>>18089314
Awwww, poor baby. Everybody stop discussing religion and focus on making this frogposter as nice and comfortable as possible. His needs should be our top priority and the board catered to him alone :'(