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Thread 18084263

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Anonymous No.18084263 [Report] >>18084346 >>18084431 >>18084506 >>18084996 >>18085140 >>18085251 >>18085489 >>18085521 >>18085582 >>18086034 >>18086040 >>18086468 >>18087865
Help
I think the evidence for christianity is really, really bad and the evidence against it is really strong, but unlike any other (surviving) religion it has a coherent (if uncomfortable and somewhat mystical) view on morality, and-fact I think any intellectually honest rejection of christianity (the only real surviving religion with a savior diety) inevitably leads to either amoralism or anti-natalistic misanthropism. I suppose I could be missing something, perhaps there is a third mystical option... but I doubt it.
Anonymous No.18084292 [Report] >>18084307
>inevitably leads to either amoralism or anti-natalistic misanthropism
It doesnt matter what it leads to in my opinion, truth matters the most to me.
The fact that I have to listen to priest lying to me about the afterlife while im paying him makes me sick to my stomach.
Anonymous No.18084307 [Report]
>>18084292
Is it really a lie if they believe it?
Anonymous No.18084346 [Report]
>>18084263 (OP)
The Bible was edited. The original Gospel had a parable about the smashing of the Jeets. Where Jesus discussed the virtue is smashing a poo worshiping kind of man from the east.
Anonymous No.18084431 [Report] >>18084441 >>18084453 >>18084614 >>18084711 >>18085997
>>18084263 (OP)
>a smug atheist who thinks you've figured it all out
>muh "evidence against christianity is really strong"
>meanwhile can't even define morality without borrowing from the worldview you're trying to destroy
>"inevitably leads to amoralism or misanthropy"
Lmao, never heard of virtue ethics? Stoicism? Secular humanism? Objective moral values don't need your sky daddy, they just need well-being as a foundation. The real cope is thinking your vague feeling that murder is bad is proof of a mystical realm.
Anonymous No.18084441 [Report]
>>18084431
b-but cherrypicked picture of a trans person at a gay pride parade!
Anonymous No.18084453 [Report] >>18084649 >>18084711
>>18084431
>a smug atheist who thinks you've figured it all out
You're the smug one.
>muh "evidence against christianity is really strong"
Yeah, after reading the bible, ancient authors and modern critical scholarship this seems to be the case.
>meanwhile can't even define morality without borrowing from the worldview you're trying to destroy
I don't think anybody is a good (as in selfless) person, even if a person went through life living completely selflessly they would have theoretical limits to their goodness. Christianity claims saved humans will become good after the eschaton, which doesn't seem fully convincing to me personally, but that's where the mystical "trust God" part comes in...
>"inevitably leads to amoralism or misanthropy"
Yeah...
>Lmao, never heard of virtue ethics? Stoicism? Secular humanism?
Copes refuted by Nietzsche and Schopenhauer.
>they just need well-being as a foundation
This is just sidestepping the problem, you're admitting to moral nihilism but feel uncomfortable about its implications.
Anonymous No.18084506 [Report] >>18084535 >>18085657
>>18084263 (OP)
Read the gospel and pray about it anon. You can't logic your way into faith. It isn't an intellectual pursuit. Theology is fun after you believe, but belief comes from the heart. Technically it comes from the Father drawing people to his Son (John 6), which could be happening to you right now. Pursue it.
Anonymous No.18084535 [Report] >>18085482 >>18085993
>>18084506
Yeah I've tried this, but the conclusions I come to about God if the bible is meant to be innerant (in what way exactly?) makes him seem barely better than the evil humans he created... Of course I'm an evil human so I have no right to complain about it though. Ha.
I'm also unconvinced Jesus even existed at all so there's that.
Anonymous No.18084614 [Report]
>>18084431
>foundation
This word mean "sky daddy".
Anonymous No.18084649 [Report]
>>18084453
>feel uncomfortable about its implications
This is such a weird issue to have. If you don't want something to be done (murder, stealing etc), then don't do it and try to prevent others from doing it. Where's the problem?
Anonymous No.18084711 [Report]
>>18084431
>>18084453
Weird nit pick, but the authors of the gospels would have been deeply familiar with Greco-Roman philosophy. Acts even mentions talking to and debating philosophers in Athens so it's assumed to be true in the text itself.
Anonymous No.18084996 [Report] >>18085148
>>18084263 (OP)
Religion isn't about evidence its about faith. If you're trying to convert to Christianity based on premises of epistemological truth then you're already putting the wrong foot forward.
Anonymous No.18085140 [Report] >>18085399
>>18084263 (OP)
I think there's tons of great evidence! What's the general sort of thing you might find persuasive? I bet I know something that matches.

And if nothing in particular comes to mind, read this article by J.P. Holding, which I think is some of the strongest historical evidence for Christianity that there is: https://tektonticker.blogspot.com/2022/05/today-i-have-special-guest-piece-by.html
Anonymous No.18085148 [Report] >>18087866
>>18084996
Faith in a Christian view point is about trust. That trust is based on truth.
Anonymous No.18085251 [Report] >>18085262
>>18084263 (OP)
I would love to help but I think that morality is really rooted in Greek philosophy. The sermon on the mount is a pretty weird morality. I think Atistotelianism tramples it quite effectively. That said, I don’t think the purpose of religion is morality. Religious beliefs are founded on a conviction that the premises of the religion are true and the religion tells the truth. It is correct not because its founders or adherents are moral but because it’s true. A thief can believe that stealing is immoral. Does it make him any less of a criminal? No. If a thief says that stealing is immoral it makes him a hypocrite but it doesn’t negate the fact that yes, stealing is immoral. Similarly, if Christians say that stealing is a sin, it doesn’t mean that Jesus is the son of god. Will people be immoral without religion? Maybe. But the fear of punishment tempers them. Christians will be afraid of hell after death but non believers will be afraid of suffering and dying in the only life they have - and the uncertainty of the afterlife makes them even more terrified. So I don’t think that absence of Christianity or any religion makes society worse or better. You can see some of the most religious societies suffering ills that atheistic societies have gotten rid of. And that you think that rejection of religion leads to misanthropy is quite telling. It tells us that humanity may need delusions to function harmoniously. If anything, it tells us more about humanity than about those delusions.
Anonymous No.18085262 [Report]
>>18085251
I don't think the early Christians expected people not to have familiarity with Aristotle. I think they just assumed you would be Aristotlians as they weren't stoics or epicureans.
Anonymous No.18085399 [Report] >>18085619
>>18085140
This becomes a whole lot less impressive when you realize the author of Luke-acts had access to Josephus, which scholars are starting to realize...
Anonymous No.18085482 [Report] >>18085512 >>18085514 >>18085556
>>18084535
homie there's not a single biblical scholar or historian that believes this "Jesus didn't exist" BS anymore. that idea was popularized by the move Zeitgeist and Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion. Dawkins took back what he said and he's the most aggro anti-Christian atheist.

Like I said, I implore you to pray about it. My faith was granted to me, I didn't logic my way into it. I was given it for asking for it.
Anonymous No.18085489 [Report] >>18085536
>>18084263 (OP)
Christianity played a role in laying part of the brickwork of what we can refer to as modern sense of morality today.
I'm kind of in the same boat as well - I don't believe in the resurrection nor any other supernatural claim but I do believe that the bible and church fathers gave a few, but very correct instructions on how to "interact" with your own "soul" (whatever that means) and how to make sense of what actual humility and responsibility looks like in practice. Obviously, it's not the only source of these "truths" but it is one of the foundations of the culture I was born and raised in, which informed language, which informed how I form my thoughts, which informs how I reason, which informs how I act etc etc etc
Anonymous No.18085512 [Report] >>18085515 >>18085536
>>18085482
>there's not a single biblical scholar or historian that believes this "Jesus didn't exist" BS
False, read Carrier.
>that idea was popularized by the move Zeitgeist and Richard Dawkins
Zeitgeist is conspiracytard garbage and Dawkins is a midwit. Yes, most Christ mythicism you'll see online is conspiratorial and bad scholarship, but Carrier's I can't just ignore Carrier's case while remaining intellectually honest, even though I'm not fully convinced...
Anonymous No.18085514 [Report] >>18085533 >>18085536
>>18085482
>there's not a single biblical scholar or historian that believes this "Jesus didn't exist" BS anymore
Richard Carrier has a Phd in ancient history and he's probably the current top advocate for it with much better and more detailed arguments/evidence than the zeitgeist thing, and he has a list of other historians and Biblical scholars who take it seriously.
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/21420
Anonymous No.18085515 [Report]
>>18085512
>but Carrier's I can't just ignore Carrier's case
That's what you get for phoneposting late at night huh.
Anonymous No.18085521 [Report] >>18085542 >>18085543
>>18084263 (OP)
>Love God and love your neighbor as yourself
>uncomfortable and somewhat mystical
1. Your brain is worthless.
2. You hate God.
3. You are not fooling anyone.
4. Enjoy Hell.
Anonymous No.18085533 [Report] >>18085543 >>18085556 >>18085578 >>18085693
>>18085514
>Richard Carrier
1. He's an anglo with a Jewfro.
2. He's a loser who shared his wife for years.
3. He openly hates God.
4. He went to Columbia.
Face it: You're a sucker. Just take the L and move on.
Anonymous No.18085536 [Report] >>18085543 >>18085578 >>18085671
>>18085489
I would recommend On the Incarnation by Athanasius. Absolutely genius work about the Trinity. The Triune God is the crowning achievement of Greek philosophy. The concept draws from Aristotelian logic, Platonic forms, and stoic metaphysics, and required a mastery of the scriptures. Science and morality as we know them today emerged from Christendom.
>>18085512
>>18085514
>he has a PhD
It's a minority fringe view even among atheist academics.
Seriously people, I implore you to pray for faith. "Knock, and the door will be opened."
Anonymous No.18085542 [Report]
>>18085521
>love your neighbor as yourself
Would you go to hell for your neighbor?
>You're supposed to love God more than your neighbor!
Ok would you go to the equivalent of Hell for 10 trillion years for your neighbor?
It's uncomfortable because nobody can even in theory be a good person and mystical because after the eschaton man is supposed to be good, somehow.
Anonymous No.18085543 [Report] >>18085545 >>18085558
>>18085536
I'm not taking recommendations from someone who wrote >>18085521 and >>18085533. You have no right to recommend anything to anyone if you respond to criticism this way. Go fuck yourself.
Anonymous No.18085545 [Report] >>18085560
>>18085543
I didn't write either of those
Anonymous No.18085556 [Report] >>18085579
>>18085533
>>18085482
>no scholar believes christianity is fake!
>okay some scholars believe it
>but they're not christian
>so they don't count
classic
Anonymous No.18085558 [Report] >>18085563
>>18085543
Being exposed as sub 115 IQ hurts your worthless ego pretty badly, doesn't it? But you asked for it when you insulted the Lord. I recommend you kill yourself.
Anonymous No.18085560 [Report] >>18085570 >>18085581
>>18085545
I promise to start reading Incarnation by Athanasius tonight if you post a screenshot proving it. No deceptions (Proverbs 6:16-19)
Anonymous No.18085563 [Report] >>18085572
>>18085558
I recommend you pray for God to cure you of hatred to fellow men.
Anonymous No.18085570 [Report] >>18085575 >>18085581
>>18085560
He's telling the truth, for once. If you had a white man's IQ you'd easily be able to distinguish the writing styles.
Anonymous No.18085572 [Report]
>>18085563
>fellow men
Rich.
Anonymous No.18085575 [Report] >>18085577
>>18085570
At least now I can tell who's actually christian between you two then.
Anonymous No.18085577 [Report] >>18085591
>>18085575
>At least now I can tell who's actually christian between you two then.
No, you can't. Remember, you are functionally retarded. That means you aren't even capable of applying basic definitions.
Anonymous No.18085578 [Report]
>>18085533
Not that I approve, but he cheated on his wife actually, and it's also irrelevant.
>>18085536
>It's a minority fringe view even among atheist academics.
I don't base my worldview on scholarly consensus, the arguments speak for themselves and I find them persuasive, even if there are parts of his work that are questionable, the overall case is stronger than I thought...
Anonymous No.18085579 [Report]
>>18085556
If it works it works.
Anonymous No.18085581 [Report] >>18085583 >>18085591
>>18085560
it doesn't say (you) by them
>>18085570
and dude you can't go around condemning people to hell. It pushes people away from Christ and is something you'll have to answer for come Judgment Day
Anonymous No.18085582 [Report] >>18085705 >>18085718 >>18085718
>>18084263 (OP)
>ELI, ELI, LEMA SABACHTHANI!?
Jesus felt just as alone and scared up on that cross as anyone else in his final moments. This quote is likely one that is 100% historical as it doesn't serve the narrative to include a line that contradicts the idea that Jesus planned to die for the greater good. In truth, Jesus was probably a charismatic orator with some revolutionary ideas, like a lot of cult leaders, and genuinely believed the end was near. He bought into his own hype, thought he was the chosen one, only to find himself dying like a common criminal and no one was coming to save him.
Anonymous No.18085583 [Report] >>18085588 >>18085591
>>18085581
>and dude you can't go around condemning people to hell. It pushes people away from Christ and is something you'll have to answer for come Judgment Day
Thanks for admitting you don't believe the gospel. Have fun burning.
Anonymous No.18085588 [Report] >>18085605
>>18085583
Jesus did no go around telling doubters
>have fun in hell, retard
You warn people about it and pray for them. You don't determine what He does with them.
Anonymous No.18085591 [Report] >>18085605
>>18085581
I'll keep my promise.
>>18085577
>>18085583
Nobody who speaks like this has the moral right to call themselves Christian.
Anonymous No.18085605 [Report] >>18085622 >>18085631
>>18085588
>Jesus did no go around telling doubters
>have fun in hell, retard
>You warn people about it and pray for them. You don't determine what He does with them.
The Bible is clear what happens to unbelievers: They go to Hell. 100%. We don't have to wonder and pretend "Oh who knows, God might save them". No. They are trash, and they go to the burn pit. Now, as it happens, I tell people about Jesus all the time, but in real life to real people. Not reprobates on 4chan who were rejected by God long ago for their hatred of Jesus. I would bet money I've saved more people than you.
>>18085591
I can't possibly care what you think about me.
Anonymous No.18085619 [Report] >>18085650
>>18085399
...Did you even read this? There could be no Bible at all and the argument would be nearly unchanged. The point is those colossal miracles?
Anonymous No.18085622 [Report] >>18085636
>>18085605
>Not reprobates on 4chan
Why are you posting on here then?
>more people than you.
Pride is a deadly sin.
Anonymous No.18085631 [Report] >>18085636
>>18085605
Yeah idk man, maybe you have saved more than me, hopefully. I'm just saying the hyper aggro "fuck you, I'm gonna laugh when you burn forever" is very obviously not a good look. "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked." So we shouldn't either.
Anonymous No.18085636 [Report] >>18085659
>>18085622
>Pride
Every heretic's favorite kneejerk accusation when they realize they've lost. Those flames just got hotter; I can't wait to hear your screams.
>>18085631
>not a good look
To who? Lice who hate the Lord? I couldn't possibly care.
Anonymous No.18085650 [Report] >>18087190
>>18085619
If you've ever read any ancient historians you'd know how they report claims of supernatrual bs like this all the, tbf I haven't read Tacitus or Josephus so perhaps they're different but I doubt it.
Even if this was real (massive, massive doubt) this does nothing to prove christianity since the author of Luke would just add in this detail (which doesn't appear in Mark or Matthew) to make it look like Jesus predicted wonderous signs.
Anonymous No.18085657 [Report] >>18085661
>>18084506
Either jews used to fly and have magic powers or they didn't.
Anonymous No.18085659 [Report] >>18085661
>>18085636
>lost
We're not in battle, larper.
>I can't wait to hear your screams.
You'll hear them tonight from your mom's bedroom
Anonymous No.18085661 [Report] >>18085666 >>18085682
>>18085657
>>18085659
Those flames just got hotter. Keep going!
Anonymous No.18085666 [Report] >>18085676
>>18085661
This has to be some sort of repressed sexual thing. Did a priest diddle you?
Anonymous No.18085671 [Report] >>18085676
>>18085536
>Science and morality as we know them today emerged from Christendom.
Dude every scientific advancement happened in spite of flying rabbi worship and not because of it. Science, literature and philosophy collapsed when christcucks replaced paganism and only came back when people started questioning that jewish horseshit.
Anonymous No.18085676 [Report] >>18085698
>>18085671
Maxing out flames, are we?
>>18085666
I am a sexual sadist but that is not related to this conversation. I'm not getting hard at the idea of you fags burning in Hell. Tick tock.
Anonymous No.18085682 [Report] >>18085688
>>18085661
>Worships a magic flying rabbi because he thinks a jew in the sky will flick him into magic lava.

The sooner christcuckery goes extinct the better.
Anonymous No.18085688 [Report] >>18085697
>>18085682
Keep going. The look on your face will be priceless the moment you realize you have to pay for all of this. Every idle word man shall give account of. You're so fucked, pardon my French.
Anonymous No.18085693 [Report] >>18085697
>>18085533
Not a single argument. Sorry you believe in flying jews and you lack the IQ to think your way out of it.
Anonymous No.18085697 [Report]
>>18085693
See >>18085688
Anonymous No.18085698 [Report]
>>18085676
>not related to this conversation
Oh boy
Anonymous No.18085705 [Report] >>18085712 >>18085715
>>18085582
It fits as far as he's quoting the opening line of psalm 22, which has a few other overlaps with the story of Jesus' crucifixion. And it also gives the centurion standing by a decent excuse to (imo in Mark's gospel sarcastically) say "Truly this man was a son of God!" which, combined with the tearing of the temple curtain and Jesus breathing his last, makes Jesus' death symmetric with his baptism, which featured the sky being torn open, the spirit descending on him (spirit and breath are the same word, pneuma). It's a good story. Suspiciously good from the perspective of mythicism.
Anonymous No.18085712 [Report] >>18085734
>>18085705
*the spirit descending on him, and him being declared God's son.
Anonymous No.18085715 [Report]
>>18085705
The rodent you are speaking to has already heard the correct explanation, and decided not to understand it because he thinks in doing so he's discrediting the Bible. In reality, it is just foaming out its own retardation and piling damnation upon its own head.
Anonymous No.18085718 [Report]
>>18085582
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
like this anon >>18085582 said, Jesus is quoting scripture and fulfilling prophecy.
Anonymous No.18085734 [Report]
>>18085712
So God creates himself
Anonymous No.18085887 [Report] >>18085892
Eusebius wrote about the early church. The people he spoke with would’ve been essentially grandchildren/great granchildren aged to the original apostles. There’s something very interesting about Jesus because if he weren’t real why would people be talking about him for 200 years after his death and why would governments be afraid of him and his followers. The best example I have for the reality of Jesus is in the early church. If he weren’t real there’d be almost nobody wiling to die for believing in him.
Anonymous No.18085892 [Report]
>>18085887
Anonymous No.18085993 [Report]
>>18084535
All of your quandaries can be solved with Gnosticism in which Jesus is still a savior/sacrifice figure. The core problem with christianity is that Yahweh, for an omnipotent omniscient "God", acts like an unhinged child and is at best apathetic to misery and suffering, the incompatibilities of the old and new testament, the fact that obviously much of the bible was edited by the early church fathers (aka archons) just to control people and make them subservient goys, the fact that the natural world doesn't align at all with an omnipotent all good "God" 9why, Christians, did God make hundreds of thousands of parasites, flesh eating amoebas, transexual crab parasites, etc etc). The Christ parable is certainly appealing but Christianity and the church fall apart on close scrutiny. Gnosticism accounts for all of this. the bible is edited, yahweh is the demiurge, archons infiltrated the church early on to spread fear and obedience in the goy population (same function as islam) Gnostics were exterminated and their works burnt so the truth wouldn't get out. And the ultimate insult to injury; calling Jesus the son of the demiurge and using his sacrifice as a means to drive people further into the arms of the ""church""
Anonymous No.18085997 [Report] >>18086021
>>18084431
>morality without borrowing from the worldview you're trying to destroy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldensians
>Little children were torn from the arms of their mothers, clasped by their tiny feet, and their heads dashed against the rocks; or were held between two soldiers and their quivering limbs torn up by main force. Their mangled bodies were then thrown on the highways or fields, to be devoured by beasts. The sick and the aged were burned alive in their dwellings. Some had their hands and arms and legs lopped off, and fire applied to the severed parts to staunch the bleeding and prolong their suffering. Some were flayed alive, some were roasted alive, some disemboweled; or tied to trees in their own orchards, and their hearts cut out. Some were horribly mutilated, and of others the brains were boiled and eaten by these cannibals. Some were fastened down into the furrows of their own fields, and ploughed into the soil as men plough manure into it. Others were buried alive. Fathers were marched to death with the heads of their sons suspended round their necks. Parents were compelled to look on while their children were first outraged [raped], then massacred, before being themselves permitted to die.
Anonymous No.18086021 [Report]
>>18085997
All you're accomplishing here is proving that Catholicism is evil. Yet that isn't Christianity.
Anonymous No.18086034 [Report] >>18086933
>>18084263 (OP)
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
Anonymous No.18086040 [Report] >>18086048 >>18086933
>>18084263 (OP)
Ok, I'll bite. I actually think the historical case for Christianity is very strong.

If you assume naturalism/materialism as your prior, then yes I think Christianity is unlikely. But if you assume theism as your prior I think Christianity is very likely (God exists, miracles can happen).

First: Christianity stakes its entire claim to truth on the notion that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. This is directly stated in Scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:12-19 "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied."

I'm going to be pulling from this article some: https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/

1 Corinthians was written around 55 AD, and the Gospel of Mark around 70 AD. These texts are nearly identical to the original texts, they haven't been significantly altered.

I'm going to be quoting from this article some: https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/
Anonymous No.18086048 [Report]
>>18086040
Actually, I'm not going to bother further. Just read the article.

If you assume theism and the possibility of miracles, Bayesian reasoning gives a strong case for Christianity. What are your objections?

I think it's more likely you (1) don't want to turn away from sin or (2) don't want to submit your intellect to Christianity if it isn't true. The only real solution here is to pray and read Scripture. Pray for a sign. Pray the rosary. Just give it a try. The only way you can come to believe if it is through the Holy Spirit and is allowed by the Father.

People can offer arguments all day, but ultimately a leap of faith is required, and I think it's a beneficial leap of faith since as you've correctly assessed Christianity provides just about the only coherent objective view of morality.
Anonymous No.18086468 [Report]
>>18084263 (OP)
Christianity is jewish bullshit.
Anonymous No.18086596 [Report]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irkzSjvVp48
>mog atheists and make demons shriek in fear with this one simple trick
Anonymous No.18086933 [Report] >>18087862 >>18087867
>>18086034
This is just saying 1st century Christianity was a cult.
>>18086040
The problem here is that it's not clear what Paul even means by Jesus being "raised from the dead".
Nowhere in the epistles does he claim anyone saw him walking around after his resurection (or before it for that matter) only that he "appeared to the 12" (weird if Judas had killed himself) in the same way that he appeared to Paul later, i.e in a vision/hallucination. When Paul talks about the new bodies we will get after the resurrection, he doesn't think that we'll get back what we had before, but rather that we'll get divine, angelic bodies.

Mark doesn't say anyone saw him afterwards either (except for the long ending, a later addition), which I think is a clue: the idea that Jesus was walking around in the flesh after the ressurection hadn't developed yet.
Anonymous No.18087190 [Report]
>>18085650
You seriously just read...what, the title? Maybe the first paragraph? It provides a detailed argument for how these cannot be inauthentic. There is nothing comparable to this in any ancient source and the article discusses why. But clearly actually reading something you're trying to respond to is too much effort.

>this does nothing to prove christianity
Proving that the God of Israel is the true God, who acted visibly and on a massive scale in history, does nothing to prove Christianity is true?
Anonymous No.18087862 [Report]
>>18086933
If you're going to disbelieve the entire Bible upfront, at least say so. Stop pretending like this is some attempt to explain what it says when you just reject it all from the beginning anyway. I don't know why you're wasting anyone's time with this charade. If you reject it all, just say so and stop wasting everyone's time with this dishonest rhetoric.

>Nowhere in the epistles does he claim anyone saw him walking around after his resurection (or before it for that matter)
I can name passages in just about every epistle of Paul that refers to the fact that Jesus had a physical existence in flesh and blood, and still does. Colossians 2:9, for instance. Ephesians 2:13, 1 Timothy 5:18, 2 Corinthians 5:16-19, etc. What you are saying here is nothing more than either dishonesty or total ignorance of scripture.

You're probably parroting lines from some atheist book, and haven't actually read the Bible yourself.
Anonymous No.18087865 [Report]
>>18084263 (OP)
>unlike any other (surviving) religion it has a coherent (if uncomfortable and somewhat mystical) view on morality
most retarded thing i've heard in my life
Anonymous No.18087866 [Report]
>>18085148
No, its not. You miss the point. Classic atheist misreading of subtlety.
Anonymous No.18087867 [Report]
>>18086933
>the idea that Jesus was walking around in the flesh after the ressurection hadn't developed yet.
See the following:

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
(1 Timothy 3:16)

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;"
(Romans 1:3)

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."
(Hebrews 10:19-22)

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
(Ephesians 2:13)

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
(Colossians 2:8-9)

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
(Philippians 2:5-11)