Thread 18085042

Historically speaking, when do the negative effects kick in?

>>18085042 (OP)
As I understand i (I’m just a random retard), it works a bit like this. When there’s two generations of first cousins marrying each other, you start to see issues. You could get unlucky on a one generation first cousin marriage, and it’s bad when siblings do it. Second cousins and beyond usually don’t cause problems, unless it’s multiple generations of that. The effects start multiplying over time with consistent inbreeding of any degree.

>>18085042 (OP)
Inbreeding is eugenic when white people (Iceland) do it but dysgenic when brown people do it (Muslims)

>>18085042 (OP)
Wait. I knew cousins got hitched back then but uncle/niece too?

>>18085042 (OP)
>when
Technically, it's if. It could genuinely never kick in.
However in practice more than a couple rounds of inbreeding is asking for trouble.

>>18085209
Yes I think it was one of the things deemed less of a taboo back then. The reason why they kept it in the family was inheritance. Men would sometime die leaving no heirs so their titles would be inherited by a woman leaving her effectively subject to her husband. So hypothetically, a Habsburg titleholder dies without kids and his titles are inherited by his sister. And it so happens that his sister is married to the king of Denmark, say an Oldenburg, that would mean that her kids would become members of the house of the Oldenburgs. As a result of this the Habsburg control over land is diminished. But if the dead Habsburg’s sister is married to her uncle then that’s less of an issue. It works as a measure of last resort but the Habsburg case demonstrates that it was used too often and resulted in the accumulation of defective genes with time. The only way to avoid it is to find a lowborn woman but people at the time saw that as polluting superior royal genes with that of common folk.

>>18085042 (OP)
>Historically speaking
fuck off man
anyway inbreeding doesn't actually automatically produce negative effects. what inbreeding does is it emphasises and concentrates whatever is already present in the genetic code. if there are hidden defects in the code, inbreeding will force these defects to manifest immediately because there is no external material that can be used to patch over them. technically a pure bloodline with a flawless genetic code would be able to reproduce entirely by close-family incest and there would be no defects. we have historical examples of this with the egyptian royal lines and also the ptolemaic dynasty in egypt who were greek aristocrats that were forced to adopt native marriage customs in order to legitimise their rule.
charles ended up the way he did because of poor luck and a hidden flaw somewhere in the habsburg genetic code.
if you are interested in more of this you can look into anthony ludovici who was a super funny autist chud eugenicist. he argued that the path to true eugenics was breeding your cousins (as a compromise to breeding your sister which would be too unpalatable). he made a lot of other eugenicists seethe simply because he autistically adhered to the science.

They really could'nt marry an unrelated Spainard or Noble every generation or two?
This is the same thing that happens with purebred dogs. Were his ancestors really such awesome monarchs to encourage such breeding? Were they like border Collies for statecraft?

When you are your own dad and own sister

>>18085108
>Iceland
They literally created an online geneology database so you can make sure you aren’t doing this. It’s not a good thing for them, either.

>>18085256
Like a reverse Tinder

>>18085230
TLDR; u mad

>>18085296
>he thinks me getting pissed off at a cowardly phrased OP means my response was offtopic

>>18085235
They cared too much about diplomacy and status. The French Kings were their most important neighbors and the Holy Roman Emperors were their closest allies.
The French Bourbons, the Spanish Habsburg and the Austrian Habsburgs were pretty much the same family.
Louis XIV's mother was a Habsburg and so was his wife.

>>18085256
Meme. It is good or otherwise Iceland would be a shithole.

If everyone fucked their sisters, then the genes that cause inbreeding-related diseases would gradually be eliminated from the gene pool due to natural selection (only the people with inbreeding-compatible genes would have healthy babies). So over time it would cease to be an issue. The actual problem is that we don't fuck our sisters enough.

>>18085406
No the actual problem is that there are no natural selection pressures. If we keep inbreeding going, the child mortality will result in a diminishing set of fit offspring until the sweet spot is found. That’s like searching a needle in a haystack except you need to several generations of every single piece of hay to be processed. Diversifying the gene pool a little would have helped more.

>>18085108
>>18085256
Iceland does poorly in PISA. It also seems to be reducing Denmark's IQ.

>>18085256
No, the database just tells them how they are related, not if. They're all related. So they can draw the line wherever they like.
>>18085464
>it's not immigration
Denmark is something like 80% Danish now, as opposed to maybe 95% in 1981 (and the 5% would have been Asians and Europeans). The Danish government is just really skilled at shuffling the numbers around by literally recategorizing ethnic foreigners as ethnic Danes.

>>18085316
mad

>>18085042 (OP)
Were Charles II's health issues even caused by inbreeding? I thought his sister turned out fine.

>>18085464
Cope

>>18085615
Charles II himself was initially fine until a childhood infection and fever. He was crippled by this early illness, not his ancestry.

Full brother/sister and mother/son are the most risky pairings, father/daughter or uncle/niece not as risky.

>>18085042 (OP)
That's what a healthy family tree looks like. A little bit of inbreeding strengthens the family tree and ensures the preservation of beneficial alleles. As long as you don't practice first degree incest, and as long as you still outbreed occasionally, you'll be fine. Pic rel. had health issues due to a childhood illness, and the "Hapsburg jaw" wasn't even a recessive trait.

>>18085736
If you look at his parents he does look like just a regular offspring of them. Its not like they had smooth round cheeks and tiny noses.
That's not what Wikipedia says though.

>>18085686
So he had a shit immune system. Many such cases.

>>18085711
o really

>>18085108
Interesting hypothesis, please explain.

>>18085711
This is bullshit aside from uncle/niece. A parent has a 50% odds of passing on any recessive disease they might have onto their child, which would pose a risk upon inbreeding between the two in case both get passed onto any child. A brother and sister have a 25% chance of both inheriting any given recessive disease from their parents, but since in this case we're talking about potential mutations from both parents instead of just one, the risk is effectively the same as parent-child mating.

If anything the inbreeding of father-daughter relative to brother-sister carries slightly higher risk due to the higher average age of one parent which increases the likelihood of DNMs. The sperm of a 45 year old is of poorer quality than that of a 25 year old, and will contain more fucked up mutations you don't want passed on.

>>18087194
>>18085711
>broscience
both of you are full of shit btw

>>18087339
Do inform the thread of what The Science says.

>>18087194
that's a meme btw although there is slightly higher chance of sperm mutation with age the odds of producing a potato are still very low in practice

A single generation of incest is enough to drastically increase risk of congenital deformity and disorder. The risk gets compounded the more generations of incest are stacked back to back. If you look at Charles II's family tree, not only were his parents related, but his grandparents were all related to one another, as were his great grandparents, and great great grandparents. You have to go back FIVE generations to find a non-incestuous ancestor.

This is what led to the rapid deterioration of the bloodline. Other cultures that practice cousin marriages don't do this, they don't exclusively marry their own blood relatives. They understand you need "fresh blood" to keep things hygienic and prevent birth defects. The Habsburgs though were just so greedy they refused to marry outside their own family lest they lose control of any of their feudal possessions via inheritance laws.

Inbred kids are not automatically potatoes but they do tend to be ugly and mentally below average. They're rather easy to pick out when you see them.

>>18087481
>although there is slightly higher chance of sperm mutation with age
Yes, and the word-for-word statement from my post you're replying to:
>carries slightly higher risk due
You're confirming my point while imagining I meant something different, presumably insinuating some major impact. I wasn't. The 'slightly' qualifier is there for a reason.

>>18087535
Yes they tend to post on /pol/.

>>18087535
Yeah they tend to post on /a/

>>18085042 (OP)
Is that Aemond Targaryen?