Thread 18118049

Mind is a physical thing and is stored in the brain. Why else would brain injuries affect us the wya they do?

>>18118049 (OP)
It doesn't even have to be a brain injury. Even if you suddenly stand up after lying down for a long time, the blood has difficulties getting into your brain and your vision goes dark, you lose your balance and you might even lose your consciousness momentarily. This is something you can test for yourself.

>>18118049 (OP)
>if the cockpit is damaged, the instruments don't work, and the plane falls out of the sky, it means there was no pilot after all

>>18118079
>he doesn't know about autopilot

>>18118049 (OP)
The mind is just an ancient way to talk about the consciousness of the brain. In the future, the dualism concept is going to be dead forever.

>>18118049 (OP)
I took a bad tumble and hit my head at 32 mph a few months back. Since then my memory has been really foggy, it takes a few seconds for me to reply when it used to be instantaneous, and most distressing of all, I've noticed that my emotions are not nearly as regulated as they used to be. A friend described me as a live wire, things that used to not bother me now set me off, and what used to be a regular sort of melancholy has morphed into this consuming despair that sometimes paralyzes me.

On one hand it motivated me to take my health seriously and really chase the things I want after my little brush with death, but on the other hand my disregulation might put me in a bad spot down the road. Be careful out there anons, you shouldn't be afraid of dying but you cannot take your soundness of mind and body for granted. There are indeed things worse than death.

>>18118102
Wrong, since materialists don't reproduce and rely on times of material comfort to increase in numbers through social contagion. Similar to how LGBTQIA+ people "grow" despite not reproducing.
The great irony of evolution is it selects for organized religion.

>>18118124
Cool story bro. Now explain how evolution resulted in the current era being more irreligious than ever.

>>18118079
>how does the pilot move the controls? He must have a little pilot inside him who ejects and survives when he dies

>>18118149
Do you think LGBTQIA+ people have grown because evolution selects for them? Or do you genuinely believe that irreligious people reproduce more?

>>18118167
Correct.

>>18118172
How does that answer my question?

>>18118181
Because I have addressed it already. You must understand that biologically and demographically LGBTQIA+ and atheists/materialists are the same thing - their "growth" is due to social contagion and not reproduction, thanks to a time of great material comfort. The best part is, the survival of the religious people is guaranteed even if comfortable times continue indefinitely, since there will always be at least some children who won't abandon their parents. But the survival of the materialists hinges entirely on the gravy train going on forever. It's no wonder that they're the ones who are sure that technological advances will progress eternally.

Radio transmissions are produced by my radio, that's why the sounds it makes stops when I drop it on the floor.

>>18118102
The fact that data centers with millions of times more computational power than a human brain still haven't been able to replicate anything close to human consciousness, even as they achieve greater than human intelligence, clearly indicates that there is a non-physical aspect of consciousness.

>>18118208
It's funny how you treat religious people like sheep or cattle which pass on their cattle-mindedness to their offspring.

>>18118230
>you treat religious people like sheep or cattle
Sheep or cattle specifically? No, just animals, biological lifeforms. Their greatest advantage.

>>18118244
All that supposed advantage and yet irreligion is higher than ever.

>>18118263
The current environment is not harsh enough to select for eugenic traits.

>>18118263
Addressed multiple times now. Pound sand.

>>18118264
Yes, because of technological progress. The same progress making religion more irrelevant with each passing day. The fact that even the supporters or religion can only rely on these pseudoscientific "evolutionary benefit of religion" type arguments shows how diluted and irrelevant it has become.

>>18118274
technological progress is also selecting for lower and lower IQs for the general population.

>>18118280
>the superstitious illiterate peasants were actually smarter than modern people you see

>>18118292
Yes, actually.
"Average" people built machinery and managed farmland. You couldn't expect the "average" person of today to be able to do this
>inb4 you just reply with some form of incredulity/mockery in place of an argument

>>18118302
That's cute. This is what the average communist materialists of today built.

>>18118292
Yes, they survived under conditions which would make you curl up and wait for your death

>>18118326
it's not average people making these at all.
high IQ people design robots that make other robots that assemble most parts of these machines, and laborers might weld a few parts together at the end.

>>18118330
Except all of the ones who died, of course.

>>18118326
>le neon lights and trains
China's TFR is around 1

>>18118334
Cope.

>>18118339
Yet they brought so many children that even with high infant mortality their effective fertility was above replacement. You rely on social contagions to grow.

>>18118339
yeah thats called eugenics. its what we've been talking about, retard

>>18118352
You rely on technology to post your retardation.

>>18118070
Sounds like you need iron in your diet

>>18118361
Let's take away technology and mass industry and see who prevails then.

>>18118361
youre a fucking retard lmfao
you cant even THINK in more than two dimensions.
people saying
>technological society is dysgenic
are making a neutral statement. you saying
>erm but you use technology...
doesnt change what is or isnt dysgneic. but youre probably a lysenkoist or something so w/e

>>18118365
>Let's [delusional luddite fantasy]
Nah

There has to be a more efficient way of doing eugenics than sending us back to the stone age for however many rounds it takes us to climb back out (if we do) and hoping we come out on average a bit better...

>>18118371
Stop crying at the fact that you can't avoid using technology and say whatever it is that you want to say clearly, preferably with evidence to back it up.

>>18118388
highly suspicious digits

>>18118372
No, for you it's "let's flood our countries with endless hordes of foreigners". All to keep the comfort going. Thankfully, since humans are not interchangeable as you think they are, this is exactly what will bring you down.

>>18118394
>say what you want to say
Technology decreases the intellectual requirements for the average person to survive/thrive, creating a dysgenic effect where stupid people breed at parity with or outbreed intelligent people. Having to design your own wooden machinery for the village grain mill has no equivalent. I admit it's not the actual average person making the village mill... but every village had one. Could one out of fifty people today design even a mill?
Could the average person run a farm? I mean run it without having the internet, without school, and sometimes without being taught (i.e. if your parents died, and you became "man of the house" you just had to learn as you went).

>>18118405
Even if you actively killed every atheist out there, that still doesn't prove the existence of skydaddy.

>>18118124
That has nothing to do with what I said. Flat Earth is dead. Creationism is dying. Young Earth is dead.
Theists will just redefine what their books say, and announce that their religion was always compatible with the new scientific understanding.
It doesn't select for religion. Religion is a side-effect of our other evolutionary traits.
Being hyper pattern seeking animals who anthropomorphize everything was good for survival. It kept us alive, when we saw a bush rustling. It was better to be afraid of the bush, because of the risk of predators. The humans who weren't afraid, eventually got eaten by a predator. Leaving only the ones who were afraid.
Religion taps into those survival instincts, so religious beliefs continue.
>>18118223
You're retarded, if you think we're even a fraction of a percent of the way to Artificial General Intelligence. Why would you think that techbros are going to create artificial consciousness, when biologists are still working on understanding it? We've only been working on understanding consciousness, from an actual biological understanding for a few decades.
You're baselessly making these claims.

>>18118334
>he thinks that the average person was making a water powered mill
lol
lmao even

>>18118443
I mean... the average person is definitely not making trains or train stations circa 2025 AD.
The person who made the mill in 1200 AD was closer to the average IQ than whoever oversees the factory that makes train parts.

>>18118420
I don't believe he exists. All I said is biology selects for organized religion.

>>18118411
>Could one out of fifty people today design even a mill?
>Could the average person run a farm?
Sure, why do you think they couldn't? 1 in fifty is top 2 percentile, which means an iq of at least 130. That's more or less the iq of an engineer.

>>18118500
>That's more or less the iq of an engineer.
Modern engineers dont design things from scratch thougheveralbeit. They also get the bonus of having gone to a university to teach them every single thing they needed to know beforehand.

>>18118505
Neither did your peasants design mills from scratch. They had the bonus of being surrounded by mills.

>>18118519
People are surrounded by trains and train stations as well.

>>18118522
They're also surrounded by lots of other technologies and they happen to be good at doing some of those things. Big surprise.

>>18118049 (OP)
The brain is an interface with divine intelligence, not its source.

In the same way if you break your computer monitor or keyboard you can no longer interact with the computer.

>>18118529
>and they happen to be good at doing some of those things
zoomers and gen alpha are about as technologically illiterate as boomers. mostly because they're retarded. being an ipad baby probably cant help but I'd argue it's mostly dysgenic with a bit of environmental retardation for good measure.

>>18118542
You can argue it, but it's retarded as I've already shown.

>>18118149
Current era is also a period of infertility, social chaos, widespread crime and drug addiction. Theres more depression and social isolation than ever in human history. If anything current era provides perfect proof for why religion is a necessary aspect of life. Its clear that any society that abandons it quickly goes into freefall and mass psychosis

>>18118292
The third world is increasing while the first world is decreasing. Unless you are a leftist retard who thinks that race doesn't matter you should realize that it's a fact.

>>18118542
When i learned zoomers dont actually organize folders for their files and just dump everything in the downloads folder like retarded children with legos i realized deevolution was real

>>18118553
Meanwhile, your preferred era was one where people were killed by superstitious mobs, died miserably from simple infections, had no idea of the larger universe their own shitty village lives, and so on.

>>18118578
>people were killed by superstitious mobs
Still happens today just now they call you a rayciss instead of a witch
>died miserably from simple infections
Via vitae
>had no idea of a larger universe
Yeah, you being aware of a place called thailand and these things called quarks is really helping you to get laid. Those superstitious mobs at least had a fertility rate higher than an irradiated rock, which is the case for your balls

>>18118700
>Still happens today just now they call you a rayciss instead of a witch
Lol, okay. Your retardation speaks for itself.

>>18118302
Farmers did not build the thing in the diagram. An engineer designed it, carpenters and masons made the pieces, built the building, the country bumpkins only used it.

>>18118371
Most eugenecists were actually inclined toward Lamarckism during the early 21st century.

>>18118087
>he lives life on autopilot
let me guess, you wish you had a tesla too, you lazy bastard

>>18118542
I get the feeling you do not exactly know what dysgenics is. Like you think dysgenics is just genes getting magically worse because of woke and/or for no reason at all.

>>18118781
Genes govern intelligence and are subject to mutation. There are smarter and dumber people. These people reproduce at certain rates. Whoever reproduces more has a greater effect on the subsequent generation's gene pool. But you don't like this so you resort to Lysenkoism like always. Oh well.

>>18118752
Ok not most. But some. In the Latin, Slavic World. Ther Germanocs were very into what we normally think of as Eugenics.

>>18118578
>>18118710
Ironically enough the ramifications of civil rights have in fact produced more death and destruction than all the witch trials.

>>18118122
Go to the hospital, dumbass

>>18118079
You can be crippled and blind/deaf/mute and still have a normal mind. But you get some damage to the brain (the actual pilot in this analogy, by the way plane pilots are physical beings) and suddenly your mind doesn't work normally.

>>18118804
>the actual pilot in this analogy
No that's not the analogy. I made the analogy.

>>18118813
The pilot is a physical being interacting with physical controls to direct the plane.

>>18118804
Wrong. 'Solitaire' makes posts even without having a brain.

>>18118049 (OP)
>is stored in the brain
It's actually stored in the balls

>>18118049 (OP)
>>18118070
The "mind" is the software waveform that the stored vectors of your neuron hardware are able to run. The waveform is a literal waveform of electronshell interactions, whereas your neurons TRY to store snippets of this waveform as symatic anchorpoints that are able to recreate the waveform that was upheld on a previous moment/runcycle.

>>18118362
>the level of iron in your diet can alter your mind

>>18118049 (OP)
>God is a physical beimg and is saved in Jesus. Why else would the passion of the christ affect us the way it does?

>>18118049 (OP)
My foot is physical too and will hurt when I put it up your ass.

materialist scum

>>18118079
>pilot dies when the plane crashes

mindbros....we're never going to afterlife

>>18120705
Why do brain injuries affect us the way they do then?

>>18120725
For the same reason radio receiver damage affects the music. The receiver (in here, the brain) is how the immaterial phenomenon called radio waves (in here, the mind) is made manifest.

>>18120729
Do we have proof of any of this? Our brains aren't radios.

>>18120814
Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I'm showing you why "but brain injuries affect me" doesn't actually affect the idealist position. I'm not making an idealist claim myself, I'm haven't reached a conclusion.

>>18118122
I wish you luck, anon. Make the most of life.

>>18118049 (OP)
Conscious mind is present yes default network ego prefrontal cortex, we also have ofcourse the motor cortex to move our body, we have maslovian needs desire the id through our lizardbrain. But the unconscious is a bit harder to define

the mind is stored in the balls

>>18118122
If you're going 50km/h+ you need a full face helmet

>>18120814
They could be, just as ants have antennas, we could just as easily put wifi antennas on a neuralink

>>18118049 (OP)
mind and body are distinct things perfectly united without mixture. the body is obviously material, the mind is spiritual
humans are made in the image of god, and our consciousness is the image of the hypostatic union of jesus's humanity and divinity. you can't have true consciousness if you're missing either your mind or you brain

>>18123484
>the body is obviously material, the mind is spiritual
No, the mind is half way between body and spirit, a temple/portal to the divine

>>18118049 (OP)
Physicalist niggers always fail to point with a stick at the "mind" atoms inside the brain. Specifically, which part of this wrinkly blob produces subjective phenomenal experience and how does it do that? How does a collection of soulless atoms come together to make a persona?

>>18118553
Literally safer than the 70’s lol

>>18123499
It's literally just what happens when your brain is working all together at once. It's just how toy perceive things.


Look at this drooling retard and say that he actually has a soul that's just as intelligent and knowing as you and I. Or do retarded people get born with retarded souls?

>>18123815
>crime rates are lower than the 70's because young men are more isolated and miserable hehe take that chud

>>18123818
What is "it"? How do physical atoms working together produce non-physical thoughts, visions, dreams, designs, self-awareness? If the mind is just the brain why doesn't it feel like a brain? I don't feel like a 3lbs lump of neurons, I feel like a being. In fact you don't even know you have a brain. You can't see it, you can't touch it, only by the virtue of second hand experience like MRI's and passed knowledge can you ever know about your brain. If humans are just brains shouldn't the brain be the object we understand most intimately?

I don't know about the retard in your gif, because ironically his brain and subjective experience are just as much of a mystery as yours. If only he was just a brain.

>>18123988
All thoughts are physical. How you feel doesn't govern what is. We aren't just brains, the brain itself doesn't make a man. The brain is part of a system. You are your body, the brain and what informs it, you are all of those processes ongoing.

There isn't anything wrong with being material. Everything is.

>>18124190
>All thoughts are physical
Thoughts, emotions, perceptions are abstract by definition and are not physical, for the same reason that the number 8 is not physical.

>>18124190
>All thoughts are physical
religious belief that has no evidence backing it
if thoughts are physical where can we find them in nature? Is there a thought element of the periodic table? Can we synthetize thoughts? Can we isolate them? Or is the brain a biochemical cauldron that somehow evolved to craft a unique physical matter known as a thought which does not exist anywhere else in the known universe?

>>18124193
>>18124304
Your brains a computer and you're a flesh robot being controlled by it. Physical touch is due to nerves, scent is due to nerves, sight is due to nerves, hearing is due to nerves, and memories are due to nerves. Your thoughts are just computations bouncing a small electric spark around your neurons. If thoughts weren't located in your brain, or if your personality or whatever was from some sacred godly holy source then people wouldn't be able to render other people retraded via lobotomies.

>>18124370
>memories are due to nerves
>Your thoughts are just computations bouncing a small electric spark around your neurons
that's craaaazy... so you're telling me you can SEE the Apple I'm rotating in my mind in full 3d TOO? Where is it in my mind? Which neurons?

>>18124370
>Your brains a computer
Science has moved away from this long ago. Computational models cannot account for consciousness, Penrose wrote a massively influential book about this too.

>>18124370
You are simply trying to have your cake and eat it too here. The materialist position is that thoughts aren't real. "Your thoughts are just computations in your brain" is a cute sentence, but it's just you trying to dance between 2 positions at once. You need to own up your metaphysics.

>>18124403
>my computer has access to the Internet
>therefore Internet is contained entirely within my computer

>>18124403
I'm not a Mormon. The immaterial soul/mind/psyche is an emergent phenomenon from the physical being. No preexistence or something. Not that I know of or could intuit.

>>18124406
>The internet=consciousness

>>18124410
>>18124403
Is this the same low-tier poster or has this thread actually lost the plot? nta

>>18124414
Being unable to readily understand analogies is a sign of low IQ. Thinking in analogies is almost the exclusive domain of intelligent people.
You're responding to someone only one standard deviation above people who dont know what it would be like to not have had breakfast. In other words, a midwit, rather than an idiot. He still can't grasp higher ideas.

>>18124379
>Science has moved away from this long ago.
Not at all. More grounded sciences barely care about all those math models and quantum physics.

What's even so special about consciousness? I'm sure all Homo had it. Chimps have it. Elephants show self-awareness. Dolphins and even some birds.
It's clearly a natural biproduct of higher intelligence and bigger brain, not something exceptional and exclusive to humans.

>>18124433
>not something exceptional and exclusive to humans.
that's not the argument

>>18124427
Yes, there are entire departments who never studied the mind or the problem of consciousness at all... so? It is still the case that it is scientifically unsustainable that the mind is fundamentally a computational phenomenon. Both cognitive science and philosophy of mind converge on this very clearly.

>>18124443
>cognitive science
>converge on this very clearly
Source? Based on wikipedia article the theory seems to be strongly criticized but you portray it as the current scientific paradigm.

>>18124422
Its a categorial error dumass.
Your consciousness has nothing to do with a link of other consciousnesses connected to a primal router, which in this case you I bet you refer to reality.
Consciousness is completly subjective and in the brain. In order to acces reality you need a brain which generates awarness. Without the brain to do the computation, your awareness doesnt exist.
In order to acces the internet you need a computer to create the internet, you dont need the internet itself, get it?

>>18123988
>dreams
Even dogs have dreams. What is this a proof of?

>>18124450
>In order to acces the internet you need a computer to create the internet
saar my computer will not create internet what do??

>>18124452
A metaphysical consciousness. You won't even consider that such an emergent phenomenon could be evolutionary advantageous, and thus animals having them.

>>18124447
Penrose' Emperor's New Mind and lectures on cognitive science by Vervaeke. They both make specific cases for why computation cannot be the cause of what we call consciousness or more generally the mind from perspectives of relevance, experience etc. The current paradigm of science is mechanistic in general, so scientists will default to machine-like and specifically computer-like explanations, but only few would go so far to say that the brain/mind/consciousness works on the very basis of computation.

>>18124468
>animals
Lol, most humans don't have metaphysical consciousness.

>>18124472
>most humans don't have metaphysical consciousness.
>most
what are you even arguing?

>>18124474
That most humans don't eve think about all this stuff.

>>18124406
Absolutely zero evidence that it's coming from somewhere else though?

>>18124374
Ask a neurosurgeon or JFK

>>18124486
If I kill someone, they didn't have a metaphysical consciousness...
I don't see how that logically follows.
This discussion is not about "the afterlife"

>>18124481
What evidence can your computer give you that internet is from somewhere else? You can argue you can't find all the content on the hard drive but so what? People claim to know telepathically or spiritually what they couldn't know irl... is that convincing? The computer can explicitly tell you there is a connection but so what? So can an Indian.

>>18124493
Wasn't getting at that, I was arguing that your memories and imagination and whatever go with your brain so it's obvious its in there.

>>18118431
>Being hyper pattern seeking animals who anthropomorphize everything was good for survival. It kept us alive, when we saw a bush rustling. It was better to be afraid of the bush, because of the risk of predators. The humans who weren't afraid, eventually got eaten by a predator. Leaving only the ones who were afraid.
Religion taps into those survival instincts, so religious beliefs continue.
This is an incoherent mess of a post. If we "anthropomorphize everything" it logically entails that we are not animals, because animals don't anthropomorphize anything. They don't, yet they react when the bush is rustling.
Also, exactly what religion are you talking about? You're making connections between things that don't make any sense. You must be several steps down in some abstract theory about these matters that it doesn't pertain to reality anymore.

>>18119539
God is stored in the balls

>>18118450
Well, what if I told you that IQ doesn't matter as much as the transmission of knowledge? There's a reason why the term "skilled labor" exists.

>>18118411
>if your parents died, and you became "man of the house" you just had to learn as you went
Feral children did starve to death prior to modern times. Also, parents generally had children running errands around the farm before they actually became adults and ended up working as farmers.
Oh, and children who lived in towns were almost always apprenticed to a craftsman or a merchant. Even though there had to be one person to invent each thing that we know about, there was an overall general transmission and compounding of knowledge piece by piece from generation to generation.

>>18118562
>When i learned zoomers dont actually organize folders for their files and just dump everything in the downloads folder
I mean, I'm a Zoomillennial (born in 1998), and I don't really organize my Downloads folder's contents unless I need to download, say, 40 items of the same kind. I organize work files or project files, but not single-use memes or pics I save for masturbation purposes.

I feel like a lot of you guys are excessively meticulous when it comes to organizing your folders of memes, porn, and ragebait.

>>18124629
>Feral children did starve to death prior to modern times
so theyre evolutionarily irrelevant. the feral children who survived are the ones that made a genetic impact.

>>18118210
Where are the brainwave transmission towers?

I can even build a fucking radio

>>18120820
Idealism is compatible with literally any evidence we could possible observe

>>18124707
Do you know what a feral child is? A feral child cannot speak any human language, cannot engage in any form of agriculture, and has no idea about how to sustain themselves except by trying to hunt like a literal wolf. Most people who did have children that survived usually did because they were married and had some land to grow stuff on.
You can find stories of orphans in pre-modern times who were not full feral children who did survive by being adopted either by the church (or, say, by a Buddhist monastery in the case of East Asia) or by their neighbors in the village or town.
You have the right not to believe me, but these two pages explain some of the stuff that happened with orphans and foundlings in the Middle Ages.
https://cdalebrittain.blogspot.com/2023/10/medieval-orphans.html?m=1
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/w/wsfh/0642292.0035.001/--lost-but-not-yet-found-medieval-foundlings-and-their-care?rgn=main;view=fulltext