Thread 18133312

Wasn't Colonialism. Soviet gains were integrated into the core and everyone was treated as a citizen and the regions were developed as the core.
Where in Western Colonialism were the Brits for example, building mass public housing, hospitals, public infrastructure, cinemas, theatres, universities etc all for free for the masses?
Meanwhile the Brits basically told HK, Singapore, Australia and NZ to go fuck themselves during WW2 which were the closest regions to "core integration" you had in the Colonial system.

>>18133312 (OP)
Most of it was already controlled by Russia, retard.

>>18133312 (OP)
It was bad, they destroyed Tajik culture. The Russian Empire actually preserved it.

>>18133312 (OP)
What colonialism, it's smaller than pre ww1 russia.

>>18133335
Just like Algeria was already France, tranny

>>18133326
>Soviet gains were integrated into the core and everyone was treated as a citizen and the regions were developed as the core.
Objectively wrong.
Russia and Russians were always above the rest.

>>18133326
>all for free for the masses?
The communist only thinks in terms of monetary cost!

>>18133458
> Russia and Russians were always above the rest.
Not economically. Russians would get consumer goods last, for example.

>>18133458
>Russia and Russians were always above the rest.
Do you know the level of development and wealth that was present in Ukraine or Georgia? You're talking out of your ass or comparing Moscow as standard for entire Russian SSR.

>>18133996
Moscow and Leningrad were the imperial core.

Why aren't Africans more grateful for all the amenities Europeans gave them?

>>18133326
idk about you but Id rather live in a capitalist satellite state than a communist motherland

>>18133326
Great. Everyone gets to be poor and starve to death equally.

>>18133358
The Soviet Union destroyed every culture it directly occupied or influenced, including the Russian culture. /his/ is too filled with deranged poles to admit this, and actually understand that bolshevism is a cognitohazard that's not unique to Russia or China.

>>18134031
You've never lived in either so its trivial for you to say

>>18134003
Most Africans actually have a favorable opinion of Europeans and still view them as the prestige culture, many also seeking to emigrate. It's really only the intellectuals that seethe about colonialism.

>>18133312 (OP)
>according to mutts and anglos on /his/, colonizing is when you give exploited nations autonomous ethnostates and give them the resources needed to become self sufficient and thrive instead of forcing them into labor and stealing what they have
The only issue with USSR was that slavs, churkas and euROPEan ethnicities made up the majority. It's natural that a tribal people would not thrive under a socialist economy given how anti communal they are. This is why it was successful in China and not anywhere else.

>>18133458
Nah if anything the USSR was parasitism of Russia with the other soviets who got fat of Russia's wealth, it's no wonder the minute an actually ethnic Russian gets in charge they destroy it to free the mother land.

>>18134088
>it was successful in China
>a third of the population died because Commisar Dipshit decided to kill all the birds

>>18133312 (OP)
>it's not a colony because we changed the name to soviet
>I'm not a tsar because we changed the name to General Secretary

>>18133326
HAHAHAHAHA!
Oh man, you are great material for FSB, a sad thing they pay in rubles/rupees.

Marxist-Leninism rose all these people into civilization. It was for the betterment of the world.

>>18134062
Same in... well, everywhere to be honest, it's shocking for your average thirdie to discover how self-hating western liberals are.

>>18133312 (OP)
>oy vey how dare you have replacement rate White birthrates in 1988? Shut it down with me fellow boomergoys.

>>18134133
So what happened? Why are Russians now filled with AIDS and having no kids?

>>18134138
Jews being let off the leash after 1991.

>>18134097
>becomes top 3 population country shortly after that oversight in any case as food surplus picks up
>neuters the west of all manufacturing ever to the point where everyone is either an office drone, a salesman, or unemployed.
>spews his jewish nonsense with a Made in China keyboard

>>18134143
>communism was successful because we made our entire population slaves producing cheap products for the west
kek

>>18134155
>having manufacturing jobs is fucking slavery goyim
That’s not very capitalistic of you.

>>18134140
>da joos are the reason I keep letting pjotr sodomize me

>>18134167
>don’t look up the early life section of the oligarchs who looted Russia in the 90s hehehehe

>>18134166
I don't recall American factories installing nets to prevent their workers from killing themselves.

>>18134155
>slavery is when you provide everyone with the things they need to live and put them to work stuffing the face of the dying fat diabetic lazy whore across the Pacific
>capitalism only works when you give megaconglomerates complete autonomy to reduce your country to an economic zone and only persists by importing chattel people like latinx and indians who are willing to work for pennies, dismantle unions, and work 6 days a week 12 hours at a time
>capitalists also use these populations to replace troublesome white locals who want fair pay
congrats on being the tubby kid at the cafeteria.

>>18134179
China ranks at 120 in suicide rates unlike the ole’ USA which ranks at 31. It doesn’t take a genius to deduce that a homogenous society like China will have people kill themselves at a rate lower than a Jewish controlled shithole filled with blacks but keep spreading the same low-iq propaganda.

The same boomers will eat it up until they cash their last social security check from their wrinkly fingers I’m sure.

>>18134179
Americans have always killed themselves from their shame culcha of not having any assets at age 30, drugs, obesity, speeding, obesity etc. The USA has 3x the suicide rate of China lol

>>18134199
I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to argue here. It seems like you're agreeing with me. They're either slaves or used as scabs. Very strange you're trying to spin that as a positive while supposedly believing in communism? I really don't get it.

>>18134218
>>18134249
China is nowhere near a homogenous nation. No Chinese person would say that so I'm curious what exactly your angle is since you're clearly not Chinese.

As for national suicide rates, India is roughly comparable to the Chinese national suicide rates, so I guess that means India is a great society we should all look up to as a paragon. Complete buffoonery.

>>18133326
>Where in Western Colonialism were the Brits for example, building mass public housing, hospitals, public infrastructure, cinemas, theatres, universities etc all for free for the masses?
....the universities still in use in Africa were built by whites they didn't just spawn out of the ground and it would be the same for the hospitals if they weren't over 200 years old

>>18133326
Okay. When you invade and occupy a country/people and then force them to serve as an unwilling component of your empire while resettling your own ethnic majority onto their lands? That’s colonialism. The Russian empire at least had the excuse that it was nothing more than a medieval autocracy descended from the Mongolian Horde. It didn’t even try to pretend otherwise. The communists said imperialism and colonialism were bad. Fine, I agree. They’re kind of shit and tend to cause a lot of problems. Just look at your map. The native people of Siberia that Russia committed genocide against (and still are if you look at how they’re killing Buryat), the Crimean Tatars, the Poles, the Baltic peoples, and so on. The best way to judge how shitty Moscow was to live under is look at what happened the moment the colonies had the chance to break away. Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics, the whole Warsaw pact for that matter ran for the exits.

>>18134291
china is very homogeneous. they don't do gay regionalism like amerimutts do with the whole texas pride or pnw pride stuff. but you're American so your understanding of homogeneous and country is skewed as it is. they speak 1 language, are atheist, and have no self identifying sub ethnicities.
and I don't see what you're confused about. China builds stuff for the world and for itself. that is not slavery
>As for national suicide rates, India is roughly comparable to the Chinese national suicide rates, so I guess that means India is a great society we should all look up to as a paragon. Complete buffoonery
well the USA is separating from the west and becoming an oligarch country like India, so I would say they do see India as a paragon.
and you were the one to bring up suicide rates as a metric of success to begin with. quit switching goal posts

>>18134327
>China builds stuff for the world and for itself. that is not slavery
Taxation is a form of slavery. Communists are parasites. The government is not entitled to the fruits of people's labour and neither to their property. There's no good reason for anyone to be granted a monopoly on anything. The best countries in the world are the ones closest to a free market.

>>18134541
based materialist amerimongrel 24% african anarchoretard high off his fallout new vegas playthrough delusions. you are the end of your country and i sincerely hope you go forward with dismantling everything including your armed forces

>>18134597
China is already dead. It's a technocratic empire but it doesn't create a new world-picture. They don't believe in the soul's mission, they don't build cathedrals, they don't worship the infinite anymore. China peaked 2000 years ago. It's a mummy with organs still functioning.

>>18134597
Libertarianism is not "materialism". It is a moral principle. It is the realization that aggression is immoral.
Libertarianism is not " dismantling everything including your armed forces". It's the liberalization of the production of security and arbitration. Monopolies guarantee nothing, they solve nothing. The countries in the world closest to a free market are already on top.

>>18134609
True. Many cities have severe plumbing issues to the point where sewage water comes from the tap. A lot of government workers don't receive their salaries for half the year and 20% of it's population still works in agriculture. But morons praise it because it builds big bridges and puts LEDs on buildings.

>>18134609
>It's a technocratic empire but it doesn't create a new world-picture
the US is an empire without a face and offers nothing to the world. it can't offer cars, it can't offer products, it can't even offer military protection. look at ukraine and taiwan
instead, the US is a gigantic middle man broker and a collection of the most mindless consumer base ever.
what little is left of the manufacturing sector of america is using equipment from the 1970s. the few home owners it has are living in home from the 1960s-1980s, and the transit and road infrastructure is from the 1950s. "made in the USA" is a meme.
>They don't believe in the soul's mission, they don't build cathedrals, they don't worship the infinite anymore
buzzwords. they have a goal of claiming the stars for their nation. their region of the world is the birthplace of rockets. what you wrote are old dead ideas that have no place in the 21st century. but you are probably really old so such a decrepit understanding of what matters in a society is not surprising.
>>18134611
your understanding of libertarianism is utopian and has never been applied. you are not a woman. libertarianism is a realization of that "green arrow must go up". that's why the founding father of your ideology, Murray Rothbard, approved of selling children into slave labor.
>Libertarianism is not " dismantling everything including your armed forces".
it isn't but that's what it leads to. which is good. you don't need an army and it is a complete waste of tax money. i hope all those troops quit getting free gibs and get tossed to the street. they have always been most hated demographic in america. freeloading crybabies

>>18134684
>the US is an empire without a face and offers nothing to the world
He writes, using technology almost entirely developed by americans.

>your understanding of libertarianism is utopian
Libertarianism is not a set political model. It's a system of morality with political implications.
>and has never been applied
I apply it everyday.
>Murray Rothbard, approved of selling children into slave labour
False and also irrelevant.
>it isn't but that's what it leads to...you don't need an army bla bla bla
Delusional LARP. You will never win. The freest countries are the ones on top. You cannot cope with this.

>>18134309
They didn't invade them dumbass, these were parts of the Empire they overthrown. Colonialism is invading countries to exploit them out of their resources.
The USSR neither invaded these countries, nor did they exploit them out of their resources.

>inb4 why didn't they free them
political realism & global communism utopia

>>18134910
>>18134910
nta but you libertarians always amaze me in how delusional you are.

>it is the realization that aggression is immoral
You do realize that for the bottom 50% of the economy, most major transactions (like rent, groceries, or wage-labor) are essentially coercitive and are only "non aggression" because of ideological sugarcoating ?

>It's the liberalization of the production of security and arbitration
Not libertarianism but ancap. Also logically self-conflicting with what you previously said

>The freest countries are the ones on top
No. The countries "on top" in the world are highly regulated economies with tight social cohesion funded by extensive taxations. They're also struggling and are facing rising newcomers who are even more regulated and centralized (China).
The freest countries in the world in terms of state are failed ones, such as Somalia, Sudan and Haiti. These are living proof that capitalism requires a state-structure to thrive and be productive as implied by the MMT and post-keynesian framework.

>>18135034
The USSR explicitly did not claim to be a continuation of the Russian Empire and should therefore not have held any claim to territories that did not wish to be part of it. And with Finland, the Baltic countries, and Poland they had signed treaties recognizing the independence and borders of those countries which means the invasions in WW2 were objectively invasions.
And even disregarding this, the peripheral territories were colonies during the Tsarist era too.
>nor did they exploit them out of their resources.
They very much did, sometimes to catastrophic effect like the erosion of the Aral Sea.

>>18135084
thought experiment : if the US had a socialist revolution, would it be "colonization" if they kept New Mexico ?

But yeah, for eastern european countries, this is more or less true. They were annexed after the war and were soviet colonies. However, this can't really be said about countries like Kazakhstan which belonged to Russia under the Tsar.

>buzzwords. they have a goal of claiming the stars for their nation.
It will never happen, because China is led by technocrats, not metaphysical dreamers, the goal isn’t infinity or individual will but order, longevity, and national cohesion. China's rise is entirely mimetic, as said previously, its destiny was already fulfilled 2000 years ago. A hundred thousand people will ride the bullet train, but none of them can tell you why they live, or what they're building.

>>18135093
>if the US had a socialist revolution, would it be "colonization" if they kept New Mexico ?
If they treat it like a colony, yes, but they wouldn't.
>However, this can't really be said about countries like Kazakhstan
Kazakhstan was a colony under the Tsar and it was a colony under the USSR.

>>18134910
the technology that i use was manufactured in china. none of it was made in the US which is why it has lasted me for well over 10 years. i don't care what the US legal ruling on the patents for these products are. i do not recognize them as american products. whether it's AMD or whatever other company, the patent holder is easily replaceable. a streamlined manufacturing process is not replaceable. which is why the US will never be free if its pimp in Beijing.
>Libertarianism is not a set political model. It's a system of morality with political implications
libertarians constantly change its definition making it a quixotic concept that humans can always strive for but never achieve. kind of like transgenderism. you haven't once given a coherent example of how libertarianism is a "moral system" or how it is morally good

>>18135104
>It will never happen, because China is led by technocrats, not metaphysical dreamers
again, buzzwords that have no meaning.
america's space mission has, for the most of its history, been treated with skepticism by all sides of the US; tax payers, government, and hollywood. the UFO hysteria gave rise to american media and built up an entire subculture against space exploration full of baptists, religious atheists, schizophrenics, and other kinds of riffraff no good occultist stuck in the medieval ages. europeans are capable of being "metaphysical dreamers". but those europeans of american stock - lowly nations of irish scots, poor germans, and poor anglos - are an unoriginal nation of beggars and thieves to the core.
technocrats have a vision to bring humanity to space across the globe. america wishes it could be a technocracy by bringing in people like elon musk and giving bezos bailouts. they are hoping that AI could keep the dead USA brand alive and prove to the world that they matter but it's not working out. too much cannibalism.
there is no fight to be had because america has slowly sold its place to the world. it simply is not important anymore and the only thing keeping it important is its bloated military budget - which will be reduced over the years. and thank God.

>>18135093
>if they kept New Mexico
But the Soviets didn't "keep" anything, they went and invaded everyone around them that dared to try and stay independent

>>18134299
These were not built for the general population though, infrastructure in most colonial regions was built entirely for extraction purposes and for the Colonial elite.
Meanwhile like it or not, The USSR pretty much created 20th century welfare for the masses, gave housing and schools and whatever to everyone. The Baltics were literally the best place to live in the USSR with the most advanced homes and services and commodites yet today claim they were the most oppressed.

>>18135084
>They very much did, sometimes to catastrophic effect like the erosion of the Aral Sea.
This was not "exploiting them out of their resources" lmao. the Aral Sea doesn't exist literally because of the mass investment into these regions to make them food baskets. They were dragged from literally sub saharan africa tier to developed nations.
Even then the USSR planned on fixing the Aral Sea by diverting rivers from Sibera towards it, but then Gorbachev got in and fucked the entire thing up.

Reading all these Tankie posts is making my brain hurt. I really wish they would stop using American websites trying to understand the western world entirely through random screenshots they don't even understand the context of

>>18136333
Dude why would us "Tankies" be using Western websites for sources when the entire western sphere literally presents the USSR and China as worse than Nazi Germany?
We know this stuff because we are actually interested in the Soviet Union and it's failures and successes. In no way was the USSR a colonial project, it did not engage in colonialism like how the West did.

>>18135174
It is specious to lump people who dislike space exploration for utilitarian reasons with those that believe that Space is an illusion created by demons. Assuming that's what you mean by religious atheists.
>>18136327
To be honest, I feel like fucking with a region's hydrology even more just to fix your previous mistakes is a bad idea. Like that one Italian Fever dream about rerouting the Northern sources of the Congo to Chad Lake.
>>18136333
English speaking 'tankies' tend to be from the west. Mostly because the other form of tanky is on average 50-80 and from Belarus. Facts not comorbid with anglophony.

>>18133312 (OP)
Colonial powers enforce regimentation to extract labour for private profit, war, or colonial expansion, leaving the majority impoverished. the purpose of the regimentation is war and private profit in and of itself. The USSR organized labour for the purpose of creating a rational and planned socialist economy. The Stakhanovite movement, for example, was about mobilizing labour to transform society materially, not to enrich a capitalist class. The Western Colonialists mobilized labour to re-arm and start conquests of plunder. Stalin mobilized labour to build the Dneiper dam.
Colonialism literally mass exterminated minorities or subjugated them as functional slave colonies. The British Empire literally wiped entire cultures and people from the face of the earth. Stalin created Soviet Republics for ethnic minorities where culture and language rights were enshrined in law.
Soviet nationality policy was formally federal and designed to give territorial autonomy to ethnic groups, not to impose Russian identity. If he just wanted everyone to be Russian then why bother giving the Kazakhs or Belarusians their own republics? Why not just create Reichkommisariats for Russian ethnic domination like the Germans did?
Not only did the USSR have different republics for minorities, it had autonomous regions within them for the minorities within the minorities. Even today, Russia still has autonomous republics within it as a legacy of Soviet times.

>>18136391
Most minority republic were impoverished though. Also Stalin constantly implanted population transfers that killed tons of the people

>>18134001
Maybe the fact that they were two largest population centers in USSR by a huge margin had something to do with it? They wouldnt just put the center in say Kiev that was 3 times smaller than Leningrad and maybe 5 times smaller than Moscow and it was the third city in the soviet union. What an abysmally huge retard you are, honestly

>>18136327
No you retard, it was to grow cotton, a very water-demanding cash crop, to export both to the rest of the USSR and abroad. If they had only grown food crops the erosion would have been far from as bad.

>hurr durr communism made Russia stronk
I'm so fucking tired of this narrative. Like seriously, I want to strangle people who unironically say this.
Russia had been a great power since Peter the Great, Russia took most of the German losses in WW1, Russia was equal to Austria-Hungary in terms of contribution to science. Russia would industrialize without commies, it would just use French machines instead of American ones.
>but what about… LE SPACE PROGRAM
The Russian Empire already pioneered in astronomics, they got to space in spite of communism not because of it.

>>18133326
*Russifies Central Asia and tests nukes on Kazakh villagers*

*Keep all of Eastern Europe under the iron curtain with no political autonomy, use their lands as bases and extract wealth and resources from their economy to maintain the prowess of the Soviet Union*

How is that not colonialism? Is it because it wasn’t capitalist or something? It’s clearly a form of imperialism at least.

>>18133326
>everyone was treated as a citizen and the regions were developed as the core
well meme'd

>>18137260
>dude please we would've industralized and unfucked ourselves just believe me man
Modern Tsarists are baffling. Say what you want about the communists but the Tsarist regime dug its own grave. You don't already have problems with revolution and then get into the second most major war of all time without consequences.