Thread 18144447

>socialism is worker control of the means of production
>but they still have to produce everything according to the five year plan
So it's more like outsourcing rather than control isn't it?

>>18144447 (OP)
>CEOs dont exist
>now bureaucrats do all the management shit
Nice improvement, motherfuckers.

>>18144447 (OP)
Who told you socialism is about only workers ?

What about craftsmen? Higher management? And what's wrong with national socialism?

>>18144447 (OP)
You don't get it, the revolutionary vanguard party is totally made up by the workers and fully represents the will of the proletariats

>>18144447 (OP)
Socialism/communism is really funny when you think about it.

>the workers should control the means of production, not their bosses
>in order to make that happen, I, a politician/intellectual, will become an authoritarian
>now that I'm in control, if they disagree with what I want them to produce, I kill or imprison them
>glory to communism!

It's just completely fucking retarded and it's amazing that people still fall for it or think it's somehow logically feasible.

>>18144475
>And what's wrong with national socialism?
It contains every single flaw that regular socialism has with the added nuisance of ethnic or racial nationalism.

>>18144447 (OP)
Socialism is when you get tired of the ruling management so you gather around as many workers like you can and tell your bosses to go fuck themselves.

Then you proceed to create a parallel system where everyone is more free and equal to partecipate until you find out you need money to run your business, you need to be efficient, and you need people with a lot of will and motivation.

The moment all these things run out, that's when your economy start falling apart, expecially when on the capitalist side the new management is actually listening to their creatives now, unlike years ago when you left the place. So you lose the competition.

>>18144488
>stock markets exist
>workers can put their money in it and literally own the means of production
>commies: REEEEEE gtfo with that crapitalism!!!111!!

>>18144520
National socialism just works dude. Get over it.

>>18144566
Oh? Then why don't they?

> referee! They're lazy!

>>18144566
>workers can put their money in it and literally own the means of production
if every single worker in the usa bought apple stock, they'd still own less than 5% of the company.

>>18144447 (OP)
>>18144466
No, you still have control over HOW you produce, but WHAT you produce is determined through needs.
This is essential because one is necessary (ressource alocation isn't escapable), but one is socially constructed (property of the other's labor through coercion).


>>18144475
>national socialism
Vague word that doesn't mean much. How do you draw the line between what's good for the nation and what isn't?

>>18144488
Stalinism is to communism what ancaps are to capitalism

>>18144566
>I'm robbing you but don't worry you can buy back the items later
Maybe you haven't realized this but commies have been advocating for worker's to gain consciousness about their potential/situation for a while now

>>18144879
>had to start a world war in order to not implode
>a world war that they lost

>>18145060
Stalinism is the natural conclusion of communism. Not some kind of a tragic mistake or misinterpretation.

>>18145060
>but WHAT you produce is determined through needs.
Yeah. The five year plan has it covered. Do it however you like but don't be inefficient about it as to not fall behind the quota.

>>18144447 (OP)
haha OP I love froggo XD