How do we solve this dilemma?

>>7612762 (OP)
stop being retarded

>>7612762 (OP)
I understand the abysmal anxiety that this causes. I made a post in the anime/stylization thread that I think you should read.

>>7612762 (OP)
die and reroll as Japanese

>>7612762 (OP)
from what I learned, good lineartists NEVER draw straight, smooth lines. They don't even seem to think of lines as lines, but as shadows instead. They'll feather in a line or blot it in if needed, and usually they'll draw over the same line to give it weight and variation but they'll never cleanly outline something. when I realized that, my drawings have started looking better.

>>7612773
people meme asian jeans but the only person in my country that can pass a genuine anime learned japanese and lived there a couple of years, so there is a secret that japs are hiding from us, there is just no way

>>7612775
There is a secret and i explained it in another thread.

>>7612762 (OP)
easy
>inb4 no that's not what anime looks like noooo
it's EXACTLY what it looks like

>>7612762 (OP)
Lines are 3 dimensional and represent value contrast. Now go draw.

>>7612762 (OP)
westerners who want to draw anime are worse than trannies or even trannies themselves for not being able to realize they can't be japenease.

>>7612762 (OP)
"noo i can't just draw you have to teach me i can't do anything for myself!!!"

bot thread

yuck...

>>7612778
Animesisters... not like this

>>7612841
2DPG

>>7612777
>>7612768
>>7612755

found your other post and read it, i'll trust you, but whats the point of revealing the obvious? of course each series has its own designed proportions to meet its needs. So what is your ultimate advice? just make your own character reference sheets? how is it any different from copying and learning from already made ones by professional artists in the industry?

Anime!

>>7612888
oh jesus

More of David Finch's work. Oh my God how ugly!

>>7612841
>ears way above eyebrow
u can go down but never go up

>>7612871
These professionals in the industry keep reference nearby at all times and constantly trace their own drawings and recycle older drawings that they've made while making incremental improvements. Improving their drawing skills isn't about drawing things over and over, it's literally about improving their reference sheets. They will progressively make aesthetic improvements to their character sheets and then use that reference for their new drawings.

I'm explaining to you that the process of improvement (where one draws constantly) has been greatly misguided. It's not about the volume of your drawings. It's about creating and improving on reference material and then utilizing that for later use.

I hope im explaining this clearly English is not my first language.

Essentially, they are constantly refining their own reference material. If you look at how the artstyle of Bleach evolved over time you'll know what I'm talking about.

>>7612928
sounds like this is specific to character designing and staying on model, so what are you trying to convince others to do instead of copy reference for fun

>>7612929
The OP proposed the dilemma that he wishes to learn how to draw in an anime style but can only find people teaching western comic book style art.

I'm telling him exactly how anime style is learnt and developed. You can draw however you want. You don't have to take my advice, but I am correct about this..

You will have a stage where you decide what your canon will be. You can invent it or take inspiration from something else. Or you can copy deliberately from a specific style. You will define your characters. Then over time you will improve upon your own canon. Literally. Not in your mind. You will literally make your older drawings better. Then you will directly copy from your canon. Sometimes the use of 3D is integrated into the process but it's only meant to help with proportions and for efficiency.

>>7612937
i get it, you're proposing a method to improve your drawings, by literally improving upon your own actual drawings, and you're claiming this is the best practice method of learning in the east? but this only seems relevant if you want to make your own characters aka create your own personal canon or style, which i guess in the context of having the ultimate goal of wishing to make your own manga or anime, it makes sense, am i correct in understanding what you are saying?

draw original characters and improve them over your time, the goal being to make your characters better and better and better

>>7612923
It is skillful but it is not what I want my art to look like. I want my characters to be cute, expressive, full of life, finch characters look like sculptures or still photographs.

>>7612941
that's right. You're basically building a library of your canon/style which you will improve upon over time. You can borrow other peoples styles too. It seems like it will be alot of work but you can build something like this is a day or two. Then as you keep using it you make little improvements over time.

>>7612950
like this

>>7612954
I have the issue of just drawing to draw, but this sounds more focused, o how do you get started? do you have to make an OC? give yourself a project? im already indecisive as it is, seems like this method only works if you already have an idea of what you want to do vs just drawing to get better,

>>7612964
Yeah this process will give you high quality and consistent looking work. It's definitely built around artists who have medium-long projects in mind. Such as a one-shot or ongoing manga or animation. If you're the kind of artists who is ADHD and always want to draw someone different from a different franchise, it will still work and will give you good results but you'll be starting over every time you jump ship.


You don't have to make an OC. You can literally copy another artists style and base your canon on their drawings if you want to. Mangaka do this all the time. Fire-force and Soul eater have nearly identical canon. This technique works for everything. It depends on what your individual goal is.

This is an example of applying different canons to the same character. The artist constructs the drawing based on the style of the show, then puts the details of the character on top of it.

>>7612871
I think he slurped up the whole "reference sheet" meeming a while back in /asg/ and is parroting his own version of it. Safe to ignore.

>>7612964
these characters from My hero academia might look varied. but they are all constructed in the exact same way and will all follow the rules of the style when drawn from different angles. Only slight variations make them appear unique, such as hairstyle/eyeshape/ slightly wider or pointier chin etc.

>>7612980
>these characters from My hero academia might look varied
the last two are literally the same guy before and after makeup

>>7612981
I'll give you a neat trick. Lets say you want to draw Deku from a particular angle. but you can only find reference of Bakugo from that angle. You can literally use that drawing of bakugo as a base and just change the details of his hair and eyes and it will look correct.

>>7612983
>>7612928
>>7612973
>>7612980

ok, nice, can you pyw?

>>7612988
sure, here's some sketches I did using the technique i'm talking about.

Sukuna and Gojo I used the exact same canon and Tsunade and Kushina have the exact same canon but with different details applied for each of their likenesses. These are from Naruto and Jujutsu Kaisen but you probably know that.

>>7612973
> If you're the kind of artists who is ADHD and always want to draw someone different

so what do?

>>7612762 (OP)
Use deepl and search tutorials on youtube and pixiv. You have zero reason to not draw anime unless you're illiterate.

>>7612762 (OP)
Just watch anime-style speedpaints and copy what they do. Back when she posted vids I watched hyanna natsu's stuff. If you're looking for instructional videos, Saito Naoki has good correction-style videos.
Like other anons said, the properties of most art instructional material can be adjusted towards anime proportions, so as a non-japanese speaker that is something you'll have to learn.

>>7612762 (OP)
Are you guys seriously trying to say there isn't a plethora of drawing materials for learning to draw anime style?

>>7612927
the head is tilted down you absolute retarded shitskin.

>>7612774
>my drawings have started looking better
pyw

>>7613007
I don't get it. Isn't the issue tutorials and courses OP found teach fake anime?

>>7612998
I kneel.
Anyways, are you trying to espouse Sycra's Iterative Drawing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ufz75UvHs

>>7612998
the texture work on the rice is really pleasing, did you crib it from anywhere? I always struggle with repeated small details like brickwork etc

>>7613442
to be honest i just painted some random blots as a solid color and then selected the entire shape and gave it an outline. I then hand drew some more details to make it look more convincing. Then finally I added in the fingers/eyeballs. lol.
>>7613438
I ain't watching all of that but I am a Sycra enjoyer. Whatever he's saying probably has some truth to it. I used to watch alot of his content back in the day and while i didn't take much from it practically it opened my eyes to alot of concepts i didnt even know about.

>>7613438
>The Fastest Way to Improve
>his drawing is still shit in 2025
This is why you should not listen to youtube grifters.

>>7613438
>>7613488

exactly,

>>7613488
OHHH NO NO NO NO

tf is this?

>>7613492
>>7613498
I think they look fine, a bit troon-coded. My expectation was just too high, because /ic/ keeps praising sycra.

>>7613502
>troon-coded

kek

>>7612762 (OP)
that's why you shouldn't take online courses, baka. and read the books of the masters

Here's a tutorial

>>7613558
chommang is pretty good though his output is kinda slow

>>7613562
Output in what?

>>7613567
in his course videos especially since he's not doing the drawing routine videos anymore

>>7613515

>>7612762 (OP)
If you study the fundamentals you can draw in any style, what is this cope?

>>7613871
>If you study the fundamentals you can draw in any style
stop lying on the internet.

ugh....

>>7613874
It should be criminal for your people to post on the internet.

>>7613886
>say a LIE
>gets confronted with the TRUTH
>gets buttmad
your fundamentals will not magically make you draw appealing stylized drawings, just look at proko, you can cope, seeth and dilate all you want.

>>7612928
LMAO what the fuck is that eye

>>7613889
Proko doesn't understand the fundamentals, retard.

>>7613412
Not him, but he’s right. Even if the head is supposed to be tilted down, the ears are still too high. Look the outer part of the eyebrow - usually you can form an imaginary line from it to the tragus

>>7612762 (OP)
Buy japanese drawing books
Or maybe someone will share it with you and you can use AI to translate it
Easy
But you will be disappointed, because it is just stylized loomis

>>7615805
Early bleach he drew all characters with the eyes way back into the skull and massive nose bridges, so they all look fucking weird in 3/4.

>>7615805
appeal. soul. something you will never

>>7615805
Sovl

>>7612839
>>7612764

>>7612762 (OP)
Just learn from Japanese art teachers, gen Z weebs like you are a disgrace.
>>7612764
/thread

>>7615854
read the file name

>>7612762 (OP)
yeah kill yourself you cherrypicking weebshit monkey

>>7612762 (OP)
Skill issue
Go find tutorials that teaches you the left

>>7612998
>>7612983
>>7612928
>>7612973
>>7612980
go back to /asg/

>>7616396
no, fuck off

>>7616396
He's not wrong about it being a good way to practice, but the issue is only being a photocopier and being unable to construct things yourself can only advance you so far before you hit a wall like him.

>>7615805
It was the early 2000s. Japanese artists were experimenting after people got tired of the edgy 90s. You can blame the success of cardcaptor sakura and inuyasha for that.

>>7616451
this one looks very pretty

>>7616451
I unironically miss this style. Been binging late 90s/early 00s show

>>7616451
I unironically miss this style. Been binging late 90s/early 00s shows
Hell I'll even take the crude how to draw manga attempts at the time over modern an*me

>>7612764
fpbp

>>7616699
t. ironic weeb coper mad that he can't draw anime

>>7616337
dont waste your energy

>>7616451
>>7616699
t. gets all his knowledge on anime from 'tube video essays

lol

>>7612775
Explain why gooks and chinks can do it

>>7612927
The viewer is positioned above the head, hence the perspective view. The ear is still on the same level as the eye

>>7616864
very rarely and even that is mostly in animation. most of them still can only draw cartoons that vaguely resemble anime.

>>7612762 (OP)
Wait until you see what the difference between ads in drawing software and drawing hardware are between the east and west, the rabbit hole is deep...

>>7616445
Yeah, where did I say I didn't use construction? You lack reading comprehension. I gave you the keys to the castle. If you want to throw it in the moat and keep trying to climb the walls to get it that's not my loss.


>>7616396
what the hell is /asg/

I think that established mangakas create rules for themselves to keep things like head shape and eye style consistent. I draw in an inconsistent style because i draw fanart and often study and copy the source style so i don't have a perferred way of drawing anything. I just do what i think is correct or will be liked more. I cant draw the sane style twice either since I'm trying to drastically improve which is the opposite of consistency. I have no soul.

>>7616950
>abloobloobloo

>>7616699
>I unironically miss this style.

Yeeeeahh and no. The early 2000s had its fair share of garbage adapted VN anime with crud animation. Some of it feels like a Vietnam sweatshop animated every frame. I am super stoked we've been getting more VN adaptions lately, though. If only Key could put their foot back into the ring and stop trying to be some Miyazaki studio. We need a big player so the other's could up the quality of their shows a notch.

>>7616961
Key needs to dump their current studio once it's done with the SP adaptation because holy shit it looks bad

>>7616969

I had a brain fart. I mean Kyoanus needs to go back to its roots with Key works (and perhaps other VNs).

>>7616981
And yes, SP looks bad. Even something like EF from 2007 looks better. I don't know, maybe all the older studios that primarily worked on VN stuff are all dead now.

>>7616894
post it?

>>7616337
Both can be right at the same time, faggot.

>>7612762 (OP)
It's very easy. Just follow a course made by gooks at Coloso.

>>7616864
Jap genetic influence from colonization and WW2

>somebody literally posts how to achieve the style with examples
>idiots still arguing about genetics and crabbing.
never change /ic/

>>7617025
and this is where i keep
MY GENETICS

I just try to wing it.

>>7616894
I see…

>>7616985
>SP looks bad
How mad can you be at being unable to draw anime?

>>7616822
bruh I lived right through it. It was a battle of traditonist like naruto, full metal alchemist, death note vs modernist like, clannad, haruhi and lucky star. Then the moeblobs k-on and SAO came and slaughtered everyone and anime never looked back.

>>7617342
You can't draw anime. You have literally no idea about anime or anime art. I'm amazed this level of ignorance and propaganda is even effective in current year.

>>7617321
>>7617384
You are a nu-anime slop eater. Rope yourself.

>>7617321
>talking about something else
>taking a jab at me by projecting

Do I know you or...?

>>7617390
>>7617384

you're just desperate for augment. go talk to your boyfriends on discord.

>>7612927
Study perspective...

I actually think it is genetics
Fundamentally white people have different facial bone structures. They have projected cheek bones and chins, making their faces and beauty standards very angular
Asians have a wide palate, flat face, flat cheek bones. Instinctively they know where to place the cheek and eyes to give that distinctive anime appearance, same with how when westerners try to draw anime faces something just looks "off"
I know there's some memes floating around about "anime is trying to look western" but I think instinctually the round eyes and flat faces come from genetics.
I've been thinking about this due to needing an oral maxillofacial surgery and western doctors will say I need xyz and eastern doctors will say I am fine and normal.

>>7617645
shut up retard. go back to discord.

>>7617277
Cute

>>7613412
>>7616869

you dont know what the artist intended

I'm trying to de-westoidify myself a little bit and learn how to draw appealing anime girl heads and it's really difficult
my sketchbook also doesn't fit on my scanner

>>7619072
Something painfully western about your cheeks.

>>7619084
yeah, cheeks are hard for me, I'll work on them. I think bottom right comes closest to that subtlety I want in them.

>>7619072
Yeah I find learning how to draw anime stuff has been really hard for me as someone who mainly draws western style cartoons. I find anime to be confusing in how you are supposed to stylize your subjects. I can draw on model for basically every western artstyle but anime for some reason makes my brain melt.

>>7619072
>I'm trying to de-westoidify myself
unfathomably based.
>a little bit
not gonna work out, it's either all or nothing. do careful traces of existing anime (preferably animation director corrections or settei) while keeping track of exact line counts and you will fix your art

>>7619072
Still look to Western/Korean. It’s probably the eyes.

>>7619090
>I find anime to be confusing in how you are supposed to stylize your subjects.
that's the first mistake of the cartoonist. anime isn't something you apply to some object to make it stylized into anime.
>but... muh... real life references!
yeah it's called character design, you're designing an anime character within a given anime style instead of just modifying something by haphazardly applying what you perceive to be generic anime tropes to it

>>7619072
i really like the huge, prominent cheeks. i hate modern anime styles that do shovel/triangle faces

>>7619200
>i hate modern anime styles
the ones you can't draw due to low skill?
lol

>>7619201
you seem awfully triggered by anyone saying anything negative about modern anime

>>7619205

It's some discord troonite from another general going from thread to thread trying to throw darts in the dark at 1 guy. Just ignore.

>>7619205
those artists spent years perfecting their craft to a level you can't even comprehend. you can't draw like them and are blinded by hate. pick up the pencil and draw to a higher quality, or be quiet.

>modern anime
there is no generic "modern anime" style. lol

You guys are weird. This is why /ic/ is dead.

>>7619214
still not joining your discord, troon. get lost.

>>7619179
>not gonna work out, it's either all or nothing. do careful traces of existing anime (preferably animation director corrections or settei) while keeping track of exact line counts and you will fix your art
Sorry, I should have been more clear: I'm trying to completely learn the anime style, and then later I can decide how much of it I want to incorporate into my personal style. I'm not going half-assed in learning it.

>>7619225
>I'm trying to completely learn the anime style
based.
then you'll end up at either of two options: you'll see the beauty and sheer power of anime and only want to draw it, or you'll do a half-measure korean/chinese style thing because it's gonna be too hard.
if you stick with anime you'll find that anime is a package deal and you won't truly be able to incorporate parts of it without incorporating the whole technique because everything is so intertwined

style ≠ skill.

You'll notice that the anatomy, posing, linework and shading can be good or bad regardless of style, but the muh manga-desu-desu aspect is in the underdeveloped noses and oversized glittery eyes.

Learn to draw first. Then learn style. Then learn that the style is nothing but the Japanese attempt at making Japanese faces more readable and distinguishable, and then swear it off forever.

>>7612762 (OP)
Who the fuck is teaching western comic style on the internet outside of like David Finch on Proko? Basically all you find online is anime tutorials from people who just want to learn to draw "cute" girls and who I suspect have all moved on to AI.

>>7616869
>>7613412
>the head's tilted down
>full view up nostrils
this bitch got a pig nose

>>7619233
what

that anon is right. Close one eye and hold up your thumb or something to cover the ear, let your mind's eye adjust, then take away your thumb and you'll see the ear is higher than you expect it to be. Even /pro/s make mistakes sometimes.

>>7620226
what isn't clear anon?

>>7619441
>style ≠ skill
there is no abstract skill independent of being visible through a style. contemporary western artists have neither style nor skill because a good art style is the result of optimizating for a certain aesthetic by a skilled artist.

>nothing but the Japanese attempt
should be so easy for you or any other "skilled" western artist to draw then, right? kek

>>7619072
>I'm trying to de-westoidify myself
Yeah, not doing a great job, buddy. The fuck is this westoid shit

>>7612762 (OP)
what do you mean? most modern artists do tranime, there are millions of tranime tutorials on YT

>>7620375
anime

>>7612762 (OP)
learn Japanese.

>>7613412
>>7616869
>>7617444
Lmao retards. STUDY ANATOMY. The ear is clearly too high relative to the zygomatic process

>>7620545
You mean study the skull. Anatomy is not required for this, beg.

>>7620546
Skull studies are anatomy studies.
Shoo, dunning kruger, shoo, go back in your little retard cave. Go draw.

>>7620546
>You mean study the skull. Anatomy is not required
Anon I….

>>7620599
I......I'm just hungry okay? I didnt have anything to eat today all I have are these cheetos fries and water

>>7612928
tell that to oda the hack

Only drawing anime heads is the same as only drawing steven universe heads. you should always learn realistic proportions first, then the whole world of style is open to change to your own taste

>>7621112
>t. can't draw anime

>>7621112
Let's see your anime heads

>>7621112
>realistic proportions
you mean anatomy, fag
proportions already vary from person to person

>>7621147
can you please pyw so we can all laugh at your retarded ass

>>7621380
Not him but anime is symbol. Refresh you eyes and brain for a second by flipping though a manga for a minute. Go right now and I'll wait here.
---

What do you see? Symbol. Every panel shows an emotion, an expression, an exaggerated shape--no face is the same every single time. Real life doesn't do that. That is part of the appeal of the anime style.

You cannot learn this from studying plates all day. You learn this by copying cartooning.

>>7621385
I get what you’re saying, but anime doesn’t mean flat symbols. You need to understand volumes to render those things that seem flat but actually aren’t (the eyes especially)

>>7619233
>half-measure korean/chinese style thing
Korea and China will surpass Japan in a few years, already happening. Bonus when the PRC drops a nuke on them

>>7621919
won’t happen until their censoring is a thing of the past

>>7621923

And Koera has just as weird laws. Since Japan is America’s pet it is the only Asian country with freedom of expression.

>>7621924
You forgot Taiwan. Technically it has the best internet freedom in Asia.

>>7621925
I did not. Taiwan is a province of China.

>>7621919
>two more weeks
cope and sneed
they can't even imitate Japanese technique faithfully outside of a very few people working in a specific creator culture

>>7621956
And no one knows why. It’s so weird.

>>7621956
They
>mastered the anime style
This isn't even up for debate. It visually looks 1:1 identical with Japanese shows now* (to a degree, more on that later)
>mastered sakuga
see ep 12 of To Be Hero X with that 8 minute long fight it made solo leveling blush

The only thing they have a hard time with is
>1. slower paced movements

At times in Chinese anime it still has this janky feel to the slow movements like the head bobbing you'd see in the Boondocks. You'd know what I mean just watching Boondocks or any western "anime" cartoon touched by Koreans. Sometimes they pull it off and other times it leaks through. Anime isn't just all about steroid crack face paced naruto fights and I hope they realize this.

>2. lack of pitcher crotch shots, exaggerated facial features

They're really focusing hard on making every drawing look good which is great, but it's like they're a tad too afraid of doing the expressive faces Japanese anime has and when they DO attempt to do that it looks like a cheap Korean American cartoon.

I'm sure I'm missing a few other points but I'm dehydrated and I'm gonna go get a drink now...

>>7621957
people do know, but why share it so openly if it means people that hate your culture and want it wiped out get to a higher level of technological development? it's like nations with access to nuclear weapons trying to gatekeep others from getting on the same level.
anime has some features that make it self-healing/gatekeepeing by nature as long as it does certain things to remain anime, even if other cultures manage to learn the technology, but that's also not something to talk about in detail where the CCP shills can hear.
>>7622008
5元 have been deposited to your account.

>>7622008
So true! Korean animation now look 100% same like Japan's anime. Sometimes I think it it's Japan, but no it's Korean made! Character design, color, sakuga are all very high level, no slop. Also, many anime are made in Korean studios already. Japan's anime is basically mostly Korean production already. Koreans will define the future.

>>7622425
I was speaking for China only, not Korea.

>>7620353
difficult angle

>>7612762 (OP)
Idk ask ai to solve it

>>7619179
fuck off howie

>>7612762 (OP)
Is this why people think the loomis method is only for one style of heads?

You could take whats taught for the right, apply it to the left, and vice versa.

>>7622516
Don't expect weebs to use any sort of creativity dude

>>7612762 (OP)
start bullying the fuck out of the hack teachers

>>7624878
>noooo youve got to draw tranime or else youre a hack

>>7624909

you president won, why are you still using "tranime" word fuck off.

>>7621919
Still not going to watch if it's not going to be dubbed in Japanese i can't fucking stand Chinese and Korean spoken language it's ugly as fuck.

>>7624933
That's because you're not used to hearing Chinese women speak in a cutesy way, conditioning you to the Chinese voices. Give it a few years and everyone would be wanting to learn mandarin. We're already seeing fan animation on youtube in the Chinese language where the female characters speak in a kawaii way.

Give it time.

>>7624947
It's not that i can't make any word from what that say you can learn few words from Japanese easily but in Chinese it's a fucking mess.

>>7624952

It does seem like an inaccessible language, yes. Weebs have made so many resources for Japanese it's easier than ever to pick it up.

>>7612762 (OP)
what went wrong with western art bros?

>>7612762 (OP)
>How do we solve this dilemma?
You learn to draw on your own, like a lot of people do. Another way is for you to stop making dumb threads on ic.

>>7624987
Absolutely nothing. OP is simply engaging in what we call a cherry picking fallacy.
You guys can't seriously be this dumb and/or dishonest, right?

>>7624909
if you think right on the op looks better than left you're fucking retarded and with that taste you're never leaving prebeg

>>7624947
t. doesn't speak Japanese
cringe CCP shill.

>>7625469
I've been studying Japanese since 2009 back when iknow.jp was a thing, sir. Back off.

>>7625827
or smart.fm whatever trans name it uses now

>>7624947
>in the Chinese language
yeah you don't speak english either

>>7625899

shut the fuck up, can you read that? bitch

>>7625913
grammar point the use of my comma, bitch.

>>7612762 (OP)
Subhuman westoid newnigger thread.

want to draw anime? setteis, anime figures, irl people refs, anatomy books, hide channel, follow animators and beg animators in training and kill yourself

https://setteidreams.net/settei/
https://www.youtube.com/@hidechannel2/playlists

>>7626912
I think you're just coping if you're trying to pretend that the online anglosphere has resources for anime drawing anywhere approaching what they do for comic book style art. Hide and settei are great don't get me wrong but finding good anime resources as an english speaker is like panning for gold.

>>7626942
there isnt. There cant be. I only know of howard blast who told niggers how to study anime. Westoids are just too dumb, too brainwashed into their jewish education. they worship ugliness and are not going to admit their "art" sucks and that someone else's way, who they deem inferior, is the correct way or "righter"

abandon westoids, let them rot and draw what you want

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMynlk7KhXs

>>7627516
why do westerners always try to ape an old anime style? always a dead give away

>>7627516
>promoting your nodraw youtube channel
I don’t get it. Is this guy trolling or something?

>>7626912
>https://setteidreams.net/settei/
holy fuck you saved me so much money it's unreal

>>7626912
When you think of Sunrise you think "Gundam" but for the better half of 15 years it's been school idol. What a change.

>>7627756
They don't really share the gundam mecha setteis and design works anyways. I think because they are afraid people will steal things for their bootlegs and whatnot.

>>7627810

I don't mind the change, though. Whoever woke up and decided to have a meeting and say "why don't we pivot and go full im@s" did the right thing. 2012 - 2013 was such a fever dream when Love Live came out.

>>7627746
pinterest has a lot too but completely scattered and gelbooru has some too, mostly from hentais.

always search

>>7628095
I'm just happy to have the hard work sourcing all the references done for me tbqh. I just want to draw motoko.

>>7627516
>Westoids are just too dumb, too brainwashed into their jewish education. they worship ugliness and are not going to admit their "art" sucks and that someone else's way, who they deem inferior, is the correct way or "righter"
We're reaching redpill levels previously thought impossible.

>>7622008
Can the chinese make cgdct already? Why do gooks and chinks always have to make battle shounen or malemc power fantasy garbage?

I think Japanese cartoons and Western cartoons are both nice.

>>7626942
>I think you're just coping
>english speaker
You're simply not going to make it if you're not learning Japanese. YOU are the one coping.

>>7628506
>Why do gooks and chinks always have to make battle shounen or malemc power fantasy garbage?

I can't complain when they got the cutest girls.

>>7612762 (OP)
>>7612923
>>7613874
>>7613879
Western comic artists are talentless and tasteless hacks.
Here's my theory of how it all happened

>Start
Beginning at realism, pictured here with a marble statue, this is just what real humans look like, no stylization.
For much of history, painters would just simply paint humans as they appeared in reality, the concept of stylization did not exist.
>Industrial revolution, rise of consumerism
Around this time, art stopped being a luxury only for the rich, art stopped being something that took hundreds of hours to make, it became a product, and artists, now redubbed illustrators, began producing simplified art, however it was still realistic, and it still took a long time, so it looked good, see Leyendecker, Rockwell, and Loomis.
>Magazines
Printing presses are now in full swing, and everyone wants pictures in their magazines, and illustrators pump out dozens of images a week advertising everything from cars to suits. It was all still realism, but because of the increasing demand, and cheaper printing quality, the art had to be simplified.
This is where it all goes down hill. These are no longer beautiful works of art anymore.

>Comics
Comics came out of newspapers, the artists employed were the same artists who were once making magazine illustrations, and so they carried over the same techniques and approach, but this time for even cheaper printing, the art once again had to be simplified further, but it was still realistic.
Many of the early comics had a complete disdain for comics, considering it very low brow

>>7628535
cont
>comics as an art form
A comics grew in popularity they become to be seen as something worth respecting, many kids who grew up with comics then became comic artists themselves. They had a love for the medium and turned this lazy art style into something more interesting. Figures like Jack Kirby being the most famous, pic unrelated
>Digital
I've skipped several decades here where comics were actually rather appealing to look at, albiet still just trying to cop realism for the most part.
As digital tools appeared, suddenly the reins were off, artists could now use any colours they like, add special effects, blending, make more daring experiments with their art, while some good came out of this, for the most part the artists lacked the discipline to avoid all the pitfalls that digital brought forth.
>Confusion
At this point comics are their own art form, but have never clearly established an aesthetic, it had always just sort of emerged gradually over time with no clear direction.
Artists have no idea what they are doing, and abominations are produced
>Laziness
Now at the deaththrows of the industry, artists have given up trying to draw at all and simply settle to poorly trace photos. There is no love, nor integrity.

>>7628535
>stylization
I'm afraid you are viewing everything through a contemporary western lens. This is a bogus concept in the first place.
>2d painting/drawing is JUST LIKE 3d reality bro
>you APPLY style to realism, realism is the underlying fundamental concept

>>7628534
Pic not related?
Also donghua?

>>7628540
>Pic not related?
Of course it's related. China is taking over.

>>7628545
I'm not particularly impressed. What's the donghua?

>>7628548
>I'm not particularly impressed.
The animation is exceeds 98% of what Japan has out right now this (and next) quarter.

>>7628545
t. coping Chinese that can't draw anime

>>7628549
>I'm not particularly impressed.
The animation exceeds 98% of what Japan has out right now this (and next) quarter.
>What's the donghua?
You're not interested, though. Why bother.

>>7628549
Awesome, let's see it.

>>7628554
move your sausage fingers yourself. Glory to China and may they reign 5000 years more.

>>7628553
>The animation exceeds 98% of what Japan has out right now this (and next) quarter.
Okay, then lets see some animated segments.
>You're not interested, though. Why bother.
No I am interested.

>>7628556

I'm not wasting my morning clipping webms for you. Either go watch it yourself or go watch your Rent a Girlfriends season 9.

>>7628557
>go watch it yourself
But what is it? You haven't told me the name and yandex gave no results.

>>7628538
Anime and manga on the other hand have a completely separate origin point.

>Disney
Osamu Tezuka, the founder of anime and manga more or less, is heavily inspired by Disney, he creates his own comics in that style
>Copycats
Seeing the success of Tezuka, a bunch of others begin making their own comics inspired by it, it all looks very similar to Astro Boy, very cartoony
>Push for edginess
These manga fans have now grown up and want to tell more serious stories, Tezuka himself follows suit and produces works like Black Jack, pic unrelated.
The style becomes more realistic but is still largely inspired by that earlier cartoony era

>>7628553
>we don't need to make anime anymore, we can just draw donghua and call it anime
I'm glad the Chinese are doing their part to cripple my competition.

>>7628561
inb4 he says "and then it switched to modern style, losing its soul and becoming commercial"

>>7628561
cont
>come to form
At this point, the distinctive look that anime has is here, it's a style that is cartoony at heart, but mixed with realism. Unlike comics which sacrifice appeal for realism, anime sacrifices realism for appeal, and comes out on top
>expanding outwards
At this point, all the next images have no clear thread of influence, anime ceases being one style and becomes many.
Artists like Rumiko Takahashi produce cartoony characters while artists like Tetsuo Hara, inspired by 80's action movies produced rough masculine ones, this is as close to western comics as it gets, but it is still cartoon and never realism.
Akira Toriyama, with his origins in very cartoony gag manga styles produce an unexpected hit with Dragonball, an action manga but with the art style of a comedy manga.
The "pretty girl" trope of anime reaches great prominence here, inspired by the hairstyles of the era, the eyes are big, this becomes the face of anime for most people

>>7628563
any upcoming chin-ime shows to shill? i might unironically start doing this to crab on westerners.

>>7628563
>we don't need to make anime anymore, we can just draw superior product
fixed, have a good rest of your morning

>>7628565
cont
>experimental
Artists have become used to the old styles, and they begin pushing the boundries of the medium
Many of these are terrible to look at, such as the 90's giant droopy eyes.
This is also where the trope of razer sharp pointy chins comes from.
It was an experimental era, but out of it, some good did come.

At this point, everyone is just doing their own thing more or less, there's no real threads, we can only see new technologies emerging.

>Digital
Just like with comics, digital took off the reins, now artists can do whatever they want.
Many manga are ruined by this, but not to the extent that comics were. The artists here are more capable.
>Saturation
Manga is now more accessible than ever, it has become an enormous market and there is something for everyone.
Within this booming industry, ONE produces a popular webcomic with absolutely terrible art but a fun story (admittedly its redraw by a much stronger artists is key to its popularity, but it had popularity even as a webcomic). This sets the precedent for artists like Tatsuki Fujimoto to produce appealing comics but with lazy art.
However, this is not a decline, there is still good art, there is just so much art that there is more bad art now than there was any art in the past.

>>7628572
This is why you'll never learn to draw anime. You don't care about the art, you only care about attacking Japan.

>>7628574

>Looking to the future
Non-human western comics like Transformers and Sonic, which are both under less controlling publishers, and also less tied to the old art styles used for drawing humans in comics, are already beginning to show manga influence.

As more and more artists grow up reading manga and not comics, these artists will produce comics that look like manga and not comics. They will understand that appealing comics are spawned from a cartoonists approach and not a realistic approach.

This is easy to do with non-human characters, but it will be a future test to western artists if they are ever able to replicate this with human characters. So far they have only produced soulless ripoffs

>>7628578
I have more anime watched than you. Now shut up and stop attacking me with this nodraw/you can't draw/blah blah bullshit every day of the week.

>>7628582
You don't know Japanese and can't draw anime my bro.

>>7628585
you don't watch anime. you troll 4chan all day.

>>7628587
I read Japanese media in Japanese, watch anime in Japanese and listen to Japanese LN audiobooks in Japanese.
YWNDA (YOU WILL NEVER DRAW ANIME)

>>7628615
you don't do any of those things, you're just a bad troll.

>>7628616
t. Chinaman that can't enjoy Japanese media in its original language
YWNDA

>>7622483
>>7619072
full page of studies, most of these are try and takako, a couple kk, and a couple from imagination

>>7624991
>OP is simply engaging in what we call a cherry picking fallacy.
Can it even be cherry picking when the western art isn't that bad? It's nothing special, but it's hardly awful or anything. I honestly don't get what OP's issue is - there's so much teaching material for anime and manga style art, he'd have a harder time finding something that teaches that 'western style' more.

If he's saying the right style is bad, and the left style is good, then he's going to be in for a shock when things swing around and japanese looking art is seen as old hat. Anime art was once seen as shitty and ugly, and will likely be seen unfavourably again as younger people want their own visual style unique to them.
Who knows? Maybe they'll latch onto classic comic book styles as the new hip thing?

>>7628631
>when things swing around and japanese looking art is seen as old hat
two more weeks bros!

>>7628619
>t. Chinaman that can't enjoy Japanese media in its original language

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I and the other anon was talking about. You're forcefully injecting yourself into the discussion by directing it to your JLPT level. Fuck off.

>>7628636
I'm showing that the CCP anon has no significant investment in Japanese media and is out to slander it. If you're a secondary who can't even understand the language or draw in the styles your opinions on anime are worth 0.

>>7628640

>I'm showing that the CCP anon has no significant investment in Japanese media

You don't know Japanese, you don't draw at all, and you don't consume the anime medium. You're the same fucking troll retard from /lsg/ picking high hanging fruit knowing it's pointless to prove to randos online that "I'm more devoted to Japan than you are!". Fuck off and leave me alone.

>>7628627
recommend to do higher res copies. or you wont see the nuance of the shapes and linework

>>7628633
Probably two decades, at least, maybe sooner if AI causes fatigue with the art style sooner because of how much it's been trained on it - just look at the harm AI has done to the ghibli and pixar styles.

>>7628643
I do all of >>7628615. But keep coping.
>/lsg/
Never visited it.

>>7628647
You don't. There is no need to prove to me or anyone that you do because. I. didn't. Ask. Get lost if you can't talk about the original topic.

>>7628649
Kek, you sound mad. You can still learn Japanese bro.

>>7628652
You can still suck my dick it's not too late.

>>7628644
You're 100% right, thanks

>>7612762 (OP)
This is a false dichotomy. Both of these are cartoons designed for mass consumption by children, neither are very far from AI in terms of artistic value.

>>7628738
Pyw

>>7628738
Anime are not cartoons.

>>7628752
Why would I? You're a manchild who only appreciates cartoons, so you'd have nothing useful to say about it. Why don't you post your cartoons instead? I could use a good chuckle.
>>7628757
Coping manchild detected. They're both cartoons. Neither have any artistic value to speak of.

>>7628796
Your life has no value to speak of.

>>7628800
I bet you imagined yourself as one of your heckin epic edgelord cartoon characters when you typed that, lol. Grow the fuck up and learn real art.

>>7628806
I usually do, but not that time. That came from the heart.

>>7628807
>I usually do
Not surprising coming from a manchild like you. But when I type, I imagine myself as a holy crusader, answering the call to defend the halls of christendom. That is BASED, that is TRADPILLED. You on the other hand? Cringe and troonpilled.
>That came from the heart
The devil has corrupted your heart, but it's never too late to see the light, to join the side of good.

>>7628816
>halls of christendom

Is this how you argue? I'd say you're like those church boomers who tell you that you're not saved yet but every time you argue you take on the role on a high podium. It's quite obvious at this point.

>>7628796
you dont even draw so shut the fuck up

>>7612764
ok, now what?

>>7628840
now draw

>>7628822
You no longer amuse me, so I'll leave you to your little cartoon infight / circlejerk. But for anyone else reading this:
Cartoons are bad and have low artistic value (and yes, anime counts as cartoons, stop coping.) Study the works of the old masters, study nature, study god -- this is how you come to appreciate true art, and how you'll learn to create your own.
>>7628835
Where are your cartoons?

>>7628844
how dare you!!

>>7628848

>>7628848
>You no longer amuse me
That's your role, jester.

>>7628631
>Can it even be cherry picking when the western art isn't that bad? It's nothing special, but it's hardly awful or anything.
I wholeheartedly agree.

>>7628631
>I honestly don't get what OP's issue is
Probably just regular 4chan ragebait.

>>7628857
>what if anime but in the 1500s
Raphael-sensei was unironically too early.

>>7612778
Fixed it for you

>>7628644
>>7628684
>>7628627
The mistakes are easier to see and easier to fix, I was drawing way too small for way too long I think

>>7628738
This.
/co/ and /a/ arguing in these threads like petty children just proves even further that they're both just angry tribalist cartoon monkeys.

>>7629675
>tribalist

You just feel excluded. Just call it like it is and move on.

>>7629675
These "people" will, with a straight face, call anime girl pinups or pages from a spiderman comic superior to the works of the old masters, just fucking lol.
>>7628870
Please don't compare Raphael to your gay cartoons, it's insulting.

First time in this art section of 4chan, watching nerds flex on each other over drawings has been an entertaining read, thanks guys.

I'm just trying to find out more about commissioning an artist for a project in my future when I stumbled into this thread.

Also, that fucking ear is at least 1 inch too far up that chick's head, crazy how many artists here are defending it. Just kidding, they aren't artists.

If anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it, I'm not ready to take up an artist's time personally, but to lurk and see offers/bids/how unique projects are worked out.

>>7628862
BASED FFXV-fag

>>7630422
Well normally dedicated blog threads are your best bet for artists on here to post their info and then you look those up and see if they have rates posted and have worked on any projects previously, but thats not the case as of today in the catalog so lurk until you see someone post OC and ask for a blog. Look inside the general threads like /int/ /beg/ /dad/ /sex/, the shit with the high post counts cause those are the ones that people try to post in actively. Also the "post what YOU drew today" threads also have people posting the most. Threads like these just have shitflinging.

>>7630422
>If anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods#List

>>7612762 (OP)
style is the product of exactly 2 properties: proportion and discretion of detail.
anime and manga studios developed effective reductions on strong anatomical bases and adjusted proportions for audience appeal. production constraints in time and funding further inform these decisions.
there is no magic here: many western styles can achieve a similar look and feel through a process of detail decision and proportion adjustment.
see pic related: the example isn't perfect by any means, but it shows how powerful simply knowing what details to add or remove can completely change the look of a piece; the woman's face on the right was made simply by erasing details, with the sole exception of increasing the size of her eyes vertically via lasso transform (hence, proportion)
"detail discretion" can be further explored through shape, line thickness, hatching and texture technique, the choice of whether to render halftone, and many more ways. this choice is usually dictated through your choice of medium (ink, charcoal, watercolor, digital, etc)

>>7630641
>anime is the product of reduction/simplification
Dunning-Kruger at its finest.

>>7630641
holy dk

>>7630659
>anime is the product of reduction/simplification
>Dunning-Kruger at its finest.
Anon talks like a DK, yeah. But he's not wrong about that part. All styles are just some kind of symbol drawing. I feel like its common knowledge to artists, isn't it? You crabbin, bro?

>>7630641
the one on the right looks much better, though her expression is still strange. tweaking the eyebrows would make it look decent i think

>>7630686
>But he's not wrong about that part
He's wrong about there being some underlying more fundamental realism that anime simplifies for "audience appeal". There is nothing simple or reductive about a fully developed anime style. Being derived from reality doesn't mean it's just taking information away.

>>7629658
from memory

>>7612841
>a nose with nostrils
>a mouth with lips
>normal size eyes
>OMG SO AWFUL
It amazes how many sad people hold sameface anime face crap up like it is actually good art, its the fast food of art. How fucked is your life where you need everything you draw to be the same forced moe shit. You must surrounded by constant shit irl to need to draw this same anime crap over and over.

>>7613412
>>7616869
>>7617444
remember to never take any advice on this board seriously since your average poster here doesn't seem to have eyes, lmao

>>7630749
What is she planning to do with that water balloon?

>>7630641
The one on the right looks best

>>7630707
I dont think you understand the words you're typing buddy

>>7630749
very cute

>>7612928
I think it's funny how this is one of the most correct pieces of advice in this thread and a bunch of idiots poopoo'd it.

Design and drawing from reference are very important, regardless if you do so for characters or environments. like you could do this same method of improving with monsters, horses, cars, or just about anything. incremental adjustment and improvement as you train your eye is just... how this thing works.

>>7630901
It's not. You're discrediting talented lead animators as if they can't draw as effortlessly as breathing. Yes they too use reference but they can move form around with ease. There are no cheat codes. You should be the one striving to make the settei sheets.

>>7627609
it's what they grew up with as kids, so they become most influenced by it.
That's just what people do. You can pretty easily tell when an artist started from that.

>>7630909
This isn't about 'cheatcodes'. I literally do this as part of my work. Wrangling messy direction is a very important step, and you absolutely learn how to do things quicker over time and should mark down how and, more importantly, WHY that decision was made.

Like, talented lead animators ALSO do this, it just tends to happen alot faster and, eventually, they learn enough that they can apply this to everything they do.
That's just how things... are. there's no discrediting or 'cheat codes' or other gotcha words about it.

>>7630910
That's wrong, it's more accurate to say that they chose to let it have a big influence on their work. Other artists rather draw more modern popular styles even if they grew up with 2000s uguu shit. But westerns in particular seem to love it and certain characters which you'd very rarely find japs draw

>>7626912
You type like an insufferable faggot.

>>7630938
>which you'd very rarely find japs draw
That's a lie. Once again, your algorithm is different from the gardener down the street to Sally at starbucks to me to your wine aunt, etc. If I shape my algo to be nothing but anime fandoms from that era I will get Japanese people drawing those characters regularly.

>>7630945
I think alot of folks just understand the concept of gremlin/scrimblo mentality. alot of japanese artists will get absolutely obsessed with one character. they just don't get noticed much (and also their art was on old japanese geocities sites.)

>>7630951
Find me a nip obsessively drawing Lain

>>7630835
Or it's going over your head because you don't draw anime.

>>7630938
>>7630910
It's more socially safe. It's as simple as that. Also they are simply not skilled enough to draw newer stuff in an authentic way, and with older stuff it's easy to pass their scribbles off as "nostalgic" and avoid a direct comparison with the best artists working right now.

>>7630986
>in an authentic way
By what metric of standard? Every /ic/fag since the dawn of time refuses to elaborate on this.

>>7630991
By adherence to techniques and results set by the collection of the most skilled artists in Japan. Drawing actual anime (anime character designs/directing/storyboarding/illustration/manga) that would pass as legit in 2025 and be part of the industry or doujin scene is infinitely harder than scribbling tumblr nostalgia slop.

>>7631006
So you're saying authenticity disappears with the passage of time which is incorrect.

>>7631017
It doesn't disappear, I'm only saying that choosing a limited timeframe for some arbitrary self-aggrandizement or cope reason shows that they don't care about the actual art, actual techniques and culture behind the art. They're disconnected and in their own bubble without any standards or tradition or community unlike the artists they purport to admire.

>>7631023
Trends come and go and, more importantly, return. I'm pretty sure we have an upcoming anime that's harping its old 90s style this quarter--therefore we need people who can draw in that style for the modern era. Old games are coming back with updated graphics like just recently the ToHeart remaster. Now we will have fanartists creating works for those IPs that use the classic style's quirks or otherwise.

Hell we have a thread up right now in the catalog talking about shows being remade with a 90s look to it. The oldheads in the industry still draw with the early 2000s look, specifically for gal games. Gal games != the mainstream stuff like gacha games or whatever is on your mind. Totally different subcultures, all still valid and all still considered "the most skilled in Japan" by those fans. They are in "their own bubble" but not for the reason you gave. There is no stone tablet that says this is the "industry standard". Anime is diverse.

>>7630707
>Being derived from reality doesn't mean it's just taking information away
It quite literally is. Take a realistic face, remove details, play with proportions, and that's stylization. Anime never adds information that wasn't there to begin with. It just emphasizes certain features (e.g. eyes) and deemphasizes others (e.g. noses)

>>7631055
Dunning-Kruger. Show us your anime drawings.

>>7631051
There are many different artistic cultures in Japan, but my point is that the tumblr crowd isn't part of any of them and has no skills to participate on the same level as them.

>>7631051
>The oldheads in the industry still draw with the early 2000s look
I think there's a difference between a style you were brought up alongside when it was modern and then a style that's old that a new artist specifically chooses to do. I'm just not surprised when I see westerners choose the latter

>>7631067
This. Also artstyle is heavily connected to the type of works that feature the style. Anime art evolved alongside other adjacent media that uses the art. Westoids can't grasp these simple concepts and think that *insert prominent stylistic feature* are unexplainable and arbitrary/whimsical things the artists just do for no reason.

>>7631075
Ultimately it's because the artists are raised in western communities and let themselves be influenced by it. Of course you'll have drawfags drawing stuff like Lucky star, Azumanga, Lain and other nostalgic shows 4channers love.

>>7631067
>think there's a difference between a style you were brought up alongside when it was modern and
yes ...
> then a style that's old that a new artist specifically chooses to do
No no no you dishonest simpleton. A style that old artist are still drawing in to this day and, in your words (which I agree with)
>with the best artists working right now.
Those artists are still considered "the best/established/go to".

And I will touch on
>a new artist specifically chooses to do
If the established vets still draw that way, how is this a problem if a new artist gravitates to that old style? Are they only allowed to chose what's the most trending according to your rulebook?

>>7616699
There is already a lot of artists who are starting to adopt the 90's/2000's anime artstyle ironically for nostalgia brownie points. I'm already sick of it, personally.

>>7631094
I'm not the original anon that wrote about adherences or whatever. And I never said it was a problem, it's just a mere observation. Maybe westerners are more nostalgic not just the artists but the fans that want to see that stuff too.

> A style that old artist
It's very few and it's not something one would choose to copy unless they were very fond of the style and the characters/franchises that go with them. There's simply a lot more interesting art styles these days but that would require exposure to different communities and having a different audience which might not be as easy to pander to.

When you consider upcoming Japanese artists they have much more options, industry options as the other anon pointed out, so they're going to end up doing a more modern style to fit their goals while a westerner is mostly aiming for commissions and patreon

>>7631117
Why do you reject returning to monkey?

>>7631125
I actually care about Japanese art and media. Ironic nostalgia isn't going to get you far. It's childish.

>>7631139
Don't enjoy seeing old shows being ran into the ground with quirky western and south american jokes? All that ironic neco arc stuff is a travesty.
Meanwhile japs doing nostalgic stuff will opt for something like Leiji Matsumoto's works

>>7631139
See the problem we have here is it's not "ironic nostalgia" if certain subcultures within the anime space still exist, still are thriving, still have Japanese fans, and still have regarded artists still putting out work with a padded resume dating back to the early 90s. It's not like at the turn of the century they all died and vanished off the face of the Earth.

You're a nufan to anime. You don't actually care about it at all. To say what you're saying is you do not care about decades of what Japan built up, only what's out now in the immediate moment to consume. And I know I'm talking to the same doofus from earlier.

>>7631157
It's mostly western artists who change their style to this. For example, vinneart the past three years.

>>7631161
>certain subcultures within the anime space
>ironically for nostalgia brownie points
Pick one and only one. I don't even get what you're arguing against anymore, I didn't say anything bad about a single Japanese artist. I'm talking about western "fans" who don't care about the output of those artists. They only care about signaling "I like the aesthetic of Saya no Uta but never read it and everything in 2010s and onward is slop" tier tastes.

>>7631161
Western fans and Japanese fans are completely different.

>>7631171
Why?

>>7631178
You're a western fan you moron.

>>7631194
I know, thank god for it too otherwise I wouldn't have been able to pirate all that Japanese media. Even the way we consume the same things are completely different

>>7631198
>thank god for it too otherwise I wouldn't have been able to pirate all that Japanese media
Correct, almost. We still have too much media that nobody cared to upload.

>>7631171
>>7631117
? There are plenty of Japanese artists who mimic older art styles and design choices

>>7631177
>the western fan cries out in pain when other westerners enjoy the same thing he does
Kek

>>7631177

I'm pretty sure this whole argument was for something completely different and I do not and will not and refuse to scroll up to trace my steps because this is yet another 'pick up from where the convo left off and divert it elsewhere' tactic to make me feel stupid.

>>7631220
>enjoy the same thing
Nope. They read fanfic tier translations and consume dubs. Western fandom is getting bottom of the barrel consumers.

>>7631177

>>7631177
>I'm talking about western "fans" who don't care about the output of those artists. They only care about signaling "I like the aesthetic of Saya no Uta but never read it and everything in 2010s and onward is slop" tier tastes.
Well I'll comment on this and leave it at that. And the simple answer to this is, why does this bother you? You're seeing a subset of people tailored to >your algorithm<. I never see these people because my online experience is crafted differently. I don't see people above the iceberg just like I don't see Kim Kardashian woohoo slept with who on my timeline.

So this is a (you) problem and has nothing to do with the original point I brought up.

>>7631224
The dub thing is weird. It's like someone watching a Spanish soap opera but with English voice overlaid on unmatched lip-sync. I've literally gotten into an argument about subtitles "ruining" shows because the person claims you spend more time reading than watching the movie. Legit some sub 90 iq tier opinions.

>>7631224
>consume dubs

Yes because I want to hear Saori Hayami for the thousandth time so much it creates whiplash. Nothing wrong with dubs these days. Some dubs make the anime more enjoyable. Here is the part where you attack me for not knowing Japanese and harpooning my devotion to the medium as a whole, am I right? Not because you yourself know Japanese (you don't) but because it's the perfect troll tactic to divert attention away from the original discussion.

You're so tiring and easy to spot. Go back to /lsg/, please.

>>7631233
The dubbing industry has been around before you aged out out diapers.

>>7631233
Seems to be a largely American issue since they tend to be monolingual.
>>7631235
You don't know Japanese. Your opinions are worthless to anyone who reads and watches in Japanese because you literally have nothing to compare things with and no insights. You are objectively a lesser quality consumer, the sooner you accept it the better.

>>7631242
>You don't know Japanese

I was spot on. Same projecting faggot troll. Waste of bandwidth.

>>7631245
I don't know who you're talking about but that's a normal view for any Japanese elitist, i.e. higher tier consumer that bothered to actually learn the language. I wouldn't even attack you if you kept quiet about your ignorance, but you guys always need to seem important for some reason instead of humbly accepting your status.

>>7631249
Your troll playbook gets so tiring.
>2 guys talking about 1 thing, happy discussion
>(you) interject with some irrelevant shit to pull it away from that topic as much as possible
>1 counter point is introduced
>(you) attack that counterpoint with "well you don't have this fruit way up on the hill on the tree here and so you can't possibly like such and such"

Over and over and over again for years. Tiring. Just go back to /lsg/.

>>7631251
I was involved in the original discussion, but nice attempt to divert from western fans at large being lower investment and lower culture consumers.
>/lsg/
Why are you self-reporting about using some westoid permabeg drawing general? Nobody cares about your guys' e-drama.

>>7631254
>I was involved in the original discussion
Yeah involved with diverting it. You're not the guy I was talking to because your posting style is easy to spot on purpose.
> but nice attempt to divert from western fans
I don't get why you degrade yourself by attacking western fans (you are a western fan) on behalf of the Japanese as if Japanese fans share the same sentiments and elitism.
>Nobody cares about your guys' e-drama
Because you're one of them. Look, I don't care that you step out of the pen but please stop the trolling. It destroys meta discussion.

>>7631258
>I don't get why you degrade yourself by attacking western fans
Western fans at large are lower tier consumers and this is a simple fact. Some western fans do become high tier / elite consumers. It all depends on the person, but the negative trends in western communities are still there.
I haven't used your cucked general and will never use it so you can stop shilling it. There's nothing in it for me.

>>7631260
>Western fans at large are lower tier consumers and this is a simple fact.

But Crunchyroll (for example), owned by Sony Japan, isn't even available for the Japanese. We as western consumers have more access to anime than Japan. It's the same with China and their gacha where we have uncensored versions of their games. Being a foreign consumer is better than being a Japanese consumer. Nothing stops you as a western consumer from going to Japan and buying what you want then coming home or just importing it online. You should be proud to be an Ameri--oh you're not American. Well, you should be proud to be a westerner.

>>7631229
The weird thing is him assuming someone making drawings of old obscure anime makes them a non-fan, when the opposite is true.

People wouldn't draw obscure anime for clout considering it doesn't get the views and likes popular anime gets today.

>>7631266
non-fan or because it's not current it's not "authentic" I dunno what his argument was

>>7631264
Access to torrents doesn't mean the consumers are more intelligent or invested in the culture, especially when they consume fanfic translations and dubs. Especially when an ironic and dismissive attitude towards the media is normalized among them.
Being in the West has some specific advantages, but will the average western fan make good use of them? The default starting point is so low that the effort to arrive at baseline Japanese levels of cultural quality is already too much to bear for some. By not being born in Japan you are already at a disadvantage in many things and will have to catch up. (You wouldn't know any of this since you don't know Japanese)

>>7631277
>Access to torrents doesn't mean the consumers are more intelligent
I'm sure you're already aware the amount of retarded zoomers who can't into piracy. That is a waste of typing. So no, it does make the individual more devoted (not intelligent; wrong word to say here), because they're actively seeking to preserve the content they like.
>especially when they consume fanfic translations and dubs
So this part here I'll skip because this shit is /a/ and not even /a/ behaves like this. We're moving past drawing and more into who's /jp/enis is bigger. You see where this is going, yes?
>By not being born in Japan you are already at a disadvantage in many things
There are ways.

Anything else?

>>7630944
to good goys i may be insufferable indeed

>>7626912
>>7631397
I watched your video. He's correct about people aimlessly drawing constructions and boxes, and how people who want to draw anime should draw it from actual anime sources instead of all these atelier owning realism artists like Proko. I also half agree with the mindset that a lot of westerners are somewhat hypnotized into thinking they need to master the human body to an extreme level before they dare attempt drawing cartoons, and should instead focus on imaginative and copying skills from artists they admire.

But he's incorrect about the complete abandonment of construction/anatomy education used for anything. He even messes up and admits the mistake on the head's proportion he drew, something a foundational sketch easily solves and would have had him finishing the drawing twice as fast (almost 30 minutes to draw a single anime head is insane). There's also this weird fixation on weeb persecution, most young (male) westerners are weebs or at least have an appreciation for Japanese media and arts, the smug redditors notwithstanding. The guys work is also /int/ tier, but his takes come across as some Sam Hyde level of intellectual midwittery, someone who makes really good points but has really bad takes mixed in.

>>7631442
>(almost 30 minutes to draw a single anime head is insane)
you know the rules, pyw.

>>7631447
My nigga, if that's the only thing you got out of everything I typed I don't know what else to say.

>>7631476
my bro... i think i can see why you think spending 30 mins is insane...

it it would take you literal h o u r s to draw an accurate anime head from that settei.

don't believe me? go ahead, try it.

>>7631442
>I watched your video.
What video? I don’t think hide has ever given such a retarded advice.

>>7631492
Ah my bad, quoted the wrong video, was talking about this one >>7627516
Hides actually a great teacher.

>>7631487
I'm not sure why you're so defensive about this, or why you're trying to build this strawman while ignoring everything else written, unless you're actually the guy in the video. I even agreed with you on some things, but the advice given is conflicting
>t. someone who fell for the Proko/Hampton excessive construction meme
You're right about the mindset that needs to be broken by copying other anime artists, but you're wrong to say that people should abandon anatomy and construction all together. It's a balance.

>>7631504
>I'm not sure why you're so defensive about this
because you talk big and can't back it up.

draw any head from that settei accurately. you won't, cause it's too scary and will show your actual level...

>1730241694070458.png
you can't draw an appealing anime head. why should we care what you have to say?

>>7631508
>because you talk big and can't back it up.
Neither can you, you're literally hard stuck /int/ tier telling people they shouldn't study anatomy. Kek.

>>7631511
>telling people they shouldn't study anatomy
idk where i said that, i'm not the video creator. but i'm waiting on that settei head.

>/int/ tier
but you are much m u c h lower my bro... why should we care what you say if you can't draw the things in the very vid you're correcting?

>you won't, cause it's too scary and will show your actual level...

>>7631515
I've already posted my work, multiple times. I know I'm beginner and still learning, but this is such a weird hill to die on. Like you're actually offended I critiqued another person, despite even agreeing with them on some points.
>tells others to post their work
>never posts his
Kek.

>>7631515
Also
>idk where i said that, i'm not the video creator.
>vehemently defends the video creator, who L I T T E R A L L Y tells his audience not to bother with anatomy or construction
>strawman's on heads, while completely ignoring everything else said

>>7631527
don't care what the video teaches about anatomy. i'm refuting your claim
>>(almost 30 minutes to draw a single anime head is insane)

you literally can't do that my bro. literally can't... i'd give it 3+ hours and you s t i l l couldn't draw an accurate head from that settei.

should you be teaching us if you're a dunning kruger beginner? give me a reason to care bro...

> Like you're actually offended I critiqued another person
i'm highly offended you're critiquing the e f f o r t that goes into drawing an anime head. making it look easy when you k n o w you can't draw it. in other words = crabbing.

pick one of them and draw. you'll be a real man if you can admit you c a n n o t draw an accurate one.

>>7631442
>>7631495
>>7627516
So I skimmed the video. As you said, 30 mins for that head is too much.
But I think he mentioned this is just a hobby for him. Understandable that he’s not that good.
His drawings are more anime-ish than most of /asg/ and /mmg/ though.

Copy setteis if you want or not. Most of us ngmi anyways.

>>7631541
>As you said, 30 mins for that head is too much.
>>7631447

>>7631508
>>7631537
Why are you telling someone who posted their work to do something for you when you haven't posted your work once?

>>7631557
i'm not the expert here who thinks 30 mins is 'insanse' for an anime head.

let the experts teach.

>posted their work
>no appealing anime head
give me a reason to care.

>>7631559
>let the experts teach.
prove you're an expert by posting your work
your words have no weight to them otherwise

>>7631537
>I don't care that the video provides wrong information so I'll continue to strawman for the /int/ giving bad information
>crabbing
>when I gave both positives and negatives of said artist
>still hasn't posted his work

30 mins for that anime head? That’s too slow. Is it because it’s big?

>>7631564
i'm not an expert.

i want to learn from the venerable experts >>7631541 >>7631476

>>7631569
don't care
pyw

>>7631569
Any beginner or pro will tell you that you should learn anatomy. Some Dunning Kruger /int/ saying otherwise is just laughable. Just post your work already bwo

>>7631567
niggas be krugin'

it's insane you think you have any right to critique anyone's head drawings.

seems about right.

>>7631573
>>7631570
i'm interested in what the local experts have to say.

please teach us.

>>7631577
>still hasn't posted his work
Kek lmao.

>>7631567

>>7631567

>>7631583
Why are you so scared to pyw? This isn't twitter, your drawings aren't tied to an account. You have the reference, draw a better head than mine.

>>7631579
>30 mins is insane
admit that you are dunning kruger and c a n n o t draw an accurate head from the settei if your life depended on it.

that is the only way for you to retain some honor.

>>7631589
>ignores everything else written and latches on to that one strawman for dear life
I've already said I was a beginner who's still learning. Stop stalling and pyw.

>>7631590

seems like >>7627516 was right about jewish education. it makes people brainwashed and they can't even admit they were wrong.

i will consider if you submit a written apology to that video

>>7631591
not him but PYW

>>7631591
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you think people shouldn't learn anatomy and construction? Because that's exactly what he tells his audience in the video.

This is why /ic/ is dying.
This is why you shouldn’t share your stuff here.
These people are literal schizos.

>>7631594
apologize to him for saying his head drawing is insane for 30 mins. you insulted the artist that designed the character. you insulted everyone that put in e f f o r t to draw like that.

>anatomy and construction
my bro... i'd ask proko for a refund on that course.

>>7631597
you sure it's not cause of people who could be on the wikipedia article for dunning kruger giving out advice and critiques?

30 mins for that anime head? He should kill himself. Literally trying to lecture people about how to draw when he’s that unqualified? People are so shameless these days.

>>7631597
that guy is clearly operating in bad faith, it's the other anons fault for engaging with him. but kinda funny how he got mogged by the avatarfag, the little troll is too scared to post his own work.

>>7631600
Bro... You know what I said when I critiqued him on providing wrong information. It's such a weird hill to die on, especially when I ALSO gave positives about his video. The fact you refuse to pyw tells me you ARE the guy in the video, and you're so defensive about anyone critiquing you, that you simply just cannot stand when someone disagrees, to the point were you have a thread wide meltdown over your work being "attacked."

Saying you take too long to draw heads isn't a personal attack.

>>7631611
>other anons
It’s most likely him samefagging too. This same argument has literally happened multiple times on /ic/.
I think he’s just a NEET who gets off by “trolling” /ic/.

>>7631619
you are committing asian erasure by that statement.

>take too long
by what standard? his 30 mins produced a result that you couldn't make in h o u r s. yet you want to teach?

it's funny you gave up and didn't try to compete. says a lot about the wannabe critic jewish education mentality.

>>7631620
Naw, it's definitely a different anon. I really wish I knew what genius thought it was a good idea to remove ip count.

>>7630844
Thanks!
>>7630783
Throw it at the back of your head

>>7612762 (OP)
Because you have to watch actual Japanese art tutorials, retarded.

>>7612762 (OP)
Draw your vision using your own two hands and nothing more then accept critiques. It hurts but you'll learn very fast.

>>7632107
Which one, anon?

>>7630964
>Lain
yes please, i obsessively love Lain, and always try to find new or old media of her.