>porn artists with over 100k followers barely go over 400 dollars on patreon

Is it really that fucking grim out there? How do you even make money with art at this point?

That’s the neat part, you don’t.

>>7621867 (OP)
Do commissions. You can pull decent numbers with it.
>but I don't wannaaaa
Art is a service and commissions are how you get paid per hour.
Patreon money is charity. It's literally donations on the same level as PBS from people who like what you do, except you aren't a nonprofit.

>>7621872
And how would you price your commisions exactly if you're that popular? You're a nigger if you're gonna say

>uhh just do whatever you think your worth is

I could use an extra 400 month.

>>7621874
And why should I help you set your pricing? If anything I’m happy when competitors set their prices too low or too high.

>>7621879
You can't really help it since there's more to your worth than your follower numbers, I'm just curious if you're the kind of person who thinks you should go 80 dollars per illustration to be a cheap whore for the masses, or you go 200+ to only get those that care and can afford it.

>>7621872
you say that but i never see any artist posting their commissions that much while having tons of fans. best case scenario you get a couple hundred extra, you're still below us minimum wage

>>7621905
So? You don’t live in the US.

>>7621909
how do you know i don't?

>>7621905
that doesn’t matter when you’re not a US citizen

>>7621912
Earning less than 1k dollars a month puts you in the poverty tier pretty much everywhere except the shittiest of shitholes, which we shan't include for obvious reasons.

>>7621874
>>7621905
Baalbuddy has his commissions filtered thru a 3-tier process:
>Be a part of his patreon at a certain tier for access to the slot bidding channel
>Prospective commissioners bid on the slots when he opens
>The commission itself is priced separately.

That allows for dynamic pricing that adapts to market demands, inflates your patreon numbers AND allows you to filter out a large portion of commission requests.

Others simply price their art in the 200-600USD range at a minimum. Some do different variants of slot bidding. At this level you realistically only need to do a handful of comms a month to be comfortable.

But you can 100% be well above US minimum wage even in the high 5-digit twitter follower count range. You just have to expressly filter out the poors by never offering cheap commissions, be personable, correctly manage your social media to be advantageous for whatever platform you use, and make what really speaks to you.

This artist makes around 200 dollars while having over 10k followers with this level of work, why is it so little?

>>7621934
It's quite interesting how the more you charge, the nicer the clients are.
Nobody is more entitled than fucks who want free requests, really goes to show poor people are scum of the earth.

>>7621942
A lot of them are mentally stunted.
Others have money, they just see the work they do per dollar as not worth paying an artist to just print the idea from their head.

And there's also the wannabe-producers with an inflated ego, who nickel and dime everything because they feel like you should be grateful that you get to work with them and be paid.
As well as the "business" clients who quite literally don't give a fuck who does the art, they just need SOMETHING along the lines they want that isn't crayon drawings and the lack of art is moreso an inconvenience to overcome than a real desire.

They all suck.

The majority of your Patreon earnings come from a few big spenders rather than hundreds of $1 supporters. Boring rewards and neglecting your community are what lead to an underperforming Patreon.

>>7621974
What do you consider interesting rewards?

>>7621942
>goes to show poor people are scum of the earth.
I wish /pol/ would stay contained in their own board.

Patreon is a bad idea for stable income unless you really have some niche type art/community. Commission is still decent way to earn income because if you look into client perspective "why would i pay for art/character that i don't like?" "oh this month FoTM i don't want to see at all i'll subscribe later"
meanwhile commission is easy. but most people choose to do patreon because they don't want to do commissions.

sure some artists can have big bux from patreon 2k-3k+ but that's hard to do especially in this AI era . you really need to have a sellpoint/popularity/ that people willing to spend for it.

>>7622003
Patreon is better for artists who make physical works. I know of multiple plush makers who make a keychain size plush each month with $50-100 tiers that are always sold out. A painter I follow has all her tiers sold out too, she mails out a painted postcard every $120, she has $5 $10 and $100 tiers, she works with the $100 tier for some personalization. And there are Japanese craft/goods makers on fanbox who always have the tier where they ship out physical goods every month sold out too. This is also if your work is desirable, I'm sure there are many trad artists and makers who make nothing

>>7622005
These people have deals with entities that deal with production and shipping, you can't have that if you're not an already established artist

>>7621867 (OP)
>porn artists with over 100k followers barely go over 400 dollars on patreon

OP the majority of those followers are either botted fake accounts or jeets.
It's not about the number of followers, it's all about engagement, just 1k followers with half of them supporting you in the $1 tier per month, and you already make more than your picrel.

>>7622010
He specified artists who make physical works. Not 2d artists who have merch. Meaning people who handmake postcards (really tiny shipping fee) or other items.

Speaking of patreon, is it worth making the tip jar tier for 1 dollar where you get nothing? Or is it better to keep it all locked to one, simple tier of 5 dollars that might persuade some people to pay that wouldn't otherwise if there was that tip jar tier

>>7622010
They are all handmade goods, not the ones who do mass produced. The ones who sell mass produced likely make way more money, but their tiers are rarely ever sold out.

>>7622013
>>7622015

Yes, artists who make physical works still have to deal with shipping, which takes gargantuan amounts of time if you're the one doing it yourself. And if something goes missing or gets damaged, you have to deal with that too.

>>7622016
??? You just go down to the post office once or twice a month...?
And you account for that in your pricing, it's called overhead.

>>7622021
Unless you make only few items, in which case they would have to cost literally hundreds of dollars for you to make any money in the first place, you'll deal with tens if not hundreds of items that you have to ship SEPARATELY, because people live in different places, shocking I know.

>>7622016
>which takes gargantuan amounts of time if you're the one doing it yourself
It doesn't lol, making/painting/sewing the actual goods is what takes a long time. It only seems like it will to people who don't know how to package things and print labels. Maybe if you were selling 100 orders a day it would take a long time. But these handmade people definitely don't, maybe 50 max for the whole month. Might take two hours to package everything. And that's why they're pricey, they can only make so many things a month.

The subscriber also always pays for the shipping, at least for the handmade things. I think for artists who sell pins the maker eats the shipping cost, those are the ones who probably have someone help with shipping. But if something went missing that would definitely be a huge pain, whether you're shipping handmade stuff or mass produced stuff.

As someone who actually sell physical stuff. You guys are a bunch of larpers lol.

>>7622029
which parts are false?

>>7622029
Is it really so hard to believe? I'm not even talking about myself, just artists I follow. I flip stuff as side income so I know that shipping isn't hard.

>>7622023
>in which case they would have to cost literally hundreds of dollars
... Yes, we are talking about art here. Your mass-produced chinese-made convention-bound landfill material aimed at impulse-buyer retards is not the subject.

>>7622035
Just because some jap kike said it's sold out to make himself look good doesn't make him some god of business, just another faggy tactic to make himself look like he's in demand

>>7621988
Access to a chat that you are actively posting in. Patreon itself has chatrooms that you can tie to specific reward tiers.
WIPs and sketches that you don't post anywhere else.
Polls to influence future drawings.
Livestreams if that's your thing.
Stickers, postcards and hand drawn sketches as your highest reward tier.

>>7622039
Both are Japanese. the first artists sells paintings for $500-1.5k on etsy.

>>7622040
>Polls to influence future drawings.
DO NOT FUCKING DO THIS
I have seen this go SO fucking wrong SO often. It's really hard to get right because you inevitably will either run out of ideas to put in the polls because you learn you know what you want to make, or it trends towards the ideas that are the most FotM.
It MIGHT work if you are broader about it or more specific to artistic concepts, but that can alienate some people. Like
>what do you want me to do on stream?
>"a painting focused on dark moody tones"
>"big sketch compilation"
>"work on my comic pages"
etc. That COULD work but its less likely to work as a "big incentive" save for the giga fans who just want to watch you make things.

>>7621867 (OP)
People aren't really going to pay for pinups. You have to draw actual sex.
t. 5k a month paywaller

>>7621941
This isn't as good as you think.
Also the faces have no appeal

>>7621941
this looks like an artist people would commission to draw a $300 pinup of their dnd character but not sub to on patreon

>>7622054
The problem is, I can draw pinups without having to watch porn. It's nice middle ground where you can do sexy stuff without being a porn addict. I guess it's the same logic of a dealer making less money with weed than hard drugs, that's just how it is I suppose.

>>7622014
Patreon recommends $3 to be your lowest tier. Most of them wouldn't mind paying $5 or more, for nothing. You are sabotaging yourself with a 1$ reward tier.

>>7622064
I'm asking more so because a lot of bigger artists have the tip jar tier for some reason

>>7622050
I ran polls to decide which clothes to give to a character I chose beforehand. You don't have to put too much thought into this or give them full control.

>>7622014
>is it worth making the tip jar tier for 1 dollar where you get nothing?
No. You get fucked on fees.
>>7622066
>a lot of bigger artists
...are retarded. Some are good at balancing the art and business side, some are popular because of wide appeal and "fell upwards", with the fact that they COULD have even bigger numbers or more-stable income, but are too stupid and impulsive (or mentally ill) to make it work.

Wow it's almost like followers and likes is not money or something huh weird crazy oh well not like anybody's been saying that for a decade haha all good guys I forgive you haha just don't let it happen again lol haha

>>7622062
If you don't want to draw porn (as in actual sex, not just pinups) you'll have to have some kind of "webcomic" type thing going on.
It doesn't have to be a comic but just like slice of life pictures of your characters showing off your world and your characters interacting. The average successful ones I see that go this route make around 1k+ a month which isn't bad supplemental income for a hobby. Then there's the actual comics and those can make 5 digits per month. Only one I can think of right now is TwoKinds but I know there's others.
But yeah otherwise you have to draw sex, and not only that, you have to have normie taste and draw popular characters that people like. You can't be drawing obscure characters only you and a few people know or just your OCs. You can but you're not gonna go over 500-1000 at the high end if you're lucky.

>>7622074
Me when I don't even have followers or get likes

>>7622066
It's a sign their Patreon campaign has been running for a long time and they have never bothered to update their reward tiers. That one dollar creates around $0,30 in fees (the donator pays it but still).

>>7622079 #
very very few webcomics get popular
Massive timesink and waste of energy

not AI shilling but patreon pinsup is dead. don't do it because AI is replacing everything relate to pinsup. No one willing to pay for cute/sexy female stare at (you) unless you're pros or big name artists,better start doing porn sex/have some dialogue ,story or any incentives that look like not "AI" drawing.

>finally make it
>my shit is always on kemono
its over....

>>7622165
I was thinking of going from sfw -> mild nsfw -> pure nsfw (full nudity) -> maybe sex. All of that would be kept within a niche, like goblin girls but not goblins. Is that better than going straight to pornography since day one?

>>7622054
>5k a month
>source: trust me bro, can't trust 4chan with my identity, etc etc

>>7621867 (OP)
I've 30K followers and make 1.2K USD on Patreon. I make around 500-600 on commissions/sales

Not bragging ofc but comfy enough for my country

>>7622054
how can I draw sex if I've never had it?!

>>7622168
If anything kemono seems to drive more customers to patreon. They can see how often you post and the quality of your works like an unofficial, out of date free trial.
Trying to beat pirates just makes it harder for actual supporters to access your works
>t. medium tier artist that makes 2-3x more on patreon than most larger artists
(52k followers, $4.9k monthly, pinup style)

>>7622169
You're replying to a stupid pajeet post. It's morning in mumbai

>>7622202
100% correct. Based internet marketing understander.

>>7621867 (OP)
doesn't help that he's an annoying nigger

>>7622202
>Source: trust me bro

>>7622097
Oh yeah I was just saying that's pretty much your only sfw route. So hopefully you're really good at writing and world building and have the patience to grow your audience if that's the way you want to go.

>>7622183
I mean I can post sub counts and income graphs but I could also just take them so what's the point?
Not like I care if anyone believes anyway, I got mine lol

>>7622253
fake* not take

>>7621941
>This artist makes around 200 dollars while having over 10k followers with this level of work, why is it so little?
Because porn is cheap, you got open source AI now that works on demand and for FREE!
Try to beat working for free. Protip: You can't!

>>7622202
It doesn't. You might get a couple but how many do you miss out on?
Also it's not that inconvenient to get around it. Their DM importer always breaks and you can scare people into not doing it by including a random number at the beginning or end of the message. It can be the same number and you just mass DM it but they won't know everyone got the same message lmao
Also they still can't import from Community so you could make a chat through there to share links to all your patrons.
You can link to an old post on your patreon that you edit with new stuff, most pirates are third worlders so they won't be smart enough to figure out which old post to go back to and flag on kemono.
There's a lot of things you can do, even making your own site with patreon integration (WordPress, itch.io, etc).
Just go on kemono and go to their chan on the bottom left. Read the pinned thread to see whatever those fags are complaining about and just do that kek

>https://x.com/NoahDoesArt?t=WPJQ62x1S7fRP3v8hAC7uw&s=09
>10k followers
>Only barely around 1k on other platforms
>500+ USD from subscribestar not counting commissions
>Artist is not even that popular or active online beyond posting art to begin with

Genuinely and unironically, how does this even happen?

>>7622280
Draws sex, beastiality, dubcon

>>7621941
>>7621867 (OP)
Because it sucks dick
>B-but it's pretty!
And that's why they have followers but not clients, not arousing, shit porn and by extension shit art
>>7622280
Sightly better porn and more interesting subject matter

>Why are shitty artists not raking in cas
Gee nice thread

>>7622362
As an addendum, this is what following weekly trends and "doing collabs" ends with. A legion of followers who's brains got tickled for 2 seconds and hit follow but don't care about your art beyond that

>>7622362
the first artist does have clients though, you can see it on their page. just no patreon

>>7622362
Out of curiosity, what do you consider arousing? There's such a wide spectrum of sexual artwork that people like it's the word "arousing" doesn't really bring any specific picture to mind. Can you post some examples?

>>7621867 (OP)
>Is it really that fucking grim out there? How do you even make money with art at this point?
Almost all of the Patreon money has been going to the top 1% of earners practically since the beginning. It's no different than any other market. The utmost majority of artists either:
1. Have a second/third part time job that they use to support themselves.
2. Do art on the side and mostly just have a regular career.
3. Are independently wealthy (spouse/family wealth) and so don't need to worry about money.
The most reliable ways of making money off of art don't even involve selling art.

>>7621941
good skill level, but dogshit appeal

>>7622494
What do you find appealing?

>>7622496
Interesting character designs, contrast, fluidity, any image that makes me stop and look at it for more than 5 seconds before I continue scrolling.

>>7622498
Can you post an example? I get what you're saying but I'd like to see what you actually find interesting

>>7621867 (OP)
There are accounts with way less that make a few hundred more than that or even 1000k. It all depends on what you draw or how you handle patreon rewards.

>>7622499

>>7622362
>All of these subjective observations and ignoring the very obvious difference in subject material.

>>7622280
Does this count as an example of good drawing skills paired with shit rendering/color skills?

>>7622454
NTA but I would say that an image is arousing if it gives off an impression of sexual maturity, vitality, and availability.
An image on a nude woman with large breasts and wide hips is an obvious example of sexual maturity, and is arousing. But most people would be even more aroused if the woman was dressed in something revealing because of what it suggests: she has big tits, she knows she has big tits, and she wants (you) and the world to see that she has big tits because she wants to fuck (you). This is what I meant by "sexual availability."
Although people are also aroused by things which seemingly conflict with the above principles of maturity and availability. Consider any porn which involves a cheating gf/spouse. In this case the appeal comes from the woman NOT being available to you. Or consider how many people on here swear that peak eroticism comes in the form of a small, flat-chested, and generally shapeless (18yo) girl. This seems to contradict the notion of sexual maturity being a hallmark of arousal.
But both of these examples share something in common: they're both demonstrations of vitality. The woman cheating on her husband with a more vital lover is throwing away her common societal notions of honor, love, and duty all in the pursuit of cheap orgasmic thrill; it's a portrayal of raw, animalistic sexual hunger and libido.
The appeal of the flat-chested and seemingly unappealing woman is more easy to explain: she reminds the viewer of youth, and youth=vitality. She is also less threatening than the large-chested more overtly mature woman. This ties back to the notion of availability.
That's my opinion anyway. Sorry for writing a whole essay.

>>7622265
>but how many do you miss out on?
The idea that piracy causes "lost sales" is a myth that persists, despite the fact that the MPAA and RIAA have consistently failed to be able to demonstrate proof of the concept's reality in courts for almost 30 years.

Your entire viewpoint collapses because you believe in the equivalent of morgellon's disease but for media.
Also, every single thing you listed proves the point of the anon you replied to when he wrote:
>Trying to beat pirates just makes it harder for actual supporters to access your works
You may be dismissing those things as "worth the slight inconvenience" but it signals a lot of bullshit, is annoying to the supporters, and takes up a fuckton of time in aggregate that you could be using to draw more or - importantly - relax.

>>7622362
>>7622369
trvth nvk3
>>7622454
nta, for the OP art, it's that Gloss took a big break at one point and when he came back his art was more "academic" and killed most of the soul in it. He was previously drawing highly expressive, well-composed works and then shifted to spindly-limbed dollike alien-proportioned figures with static poses in voids. Seen similar shit happen to others but not as dramatic as him.
Picrel is how he used to draw.

followup >>7622569
Forgot to mention, that one is 2017. And for reference, this was about 4 years later, 2021. So you have another 4 years between this and his current shit.

>>7622570
His style looks fine imo apart from the eyes. Looking him up on danbooru the problem seems to be more that his subject matter is just really boring. A lot of girls just standing around. No sex, no dialogue, nothing "happening" in any of his drawings. And if all he does is these fully colored and rendered pieces then I imagine his output is quite slow.
But then again, cutesexyrobutts does fully rendered, very detailed drawings of girls not doing anything and he gets like $6k from patreon

>>7622202
That's retarded. If I see your profile on kemono that gives me the impression that you don't care about your own work so I'll just grab it for free.

>>7622588
He has improved somewhat in a technical sense over the last 4 years but I don't know how much leaded water he drank to kill his ability between the two I shared. The dude used to make WAY more expressive pieces. I really don't have a better way to describe it than "academic" - reminds me of bland figure studies combined with "tfw ya style develops."

>CSR
CSR pumps out so much art, he has it down to a science. There are loads of people who ape him because the way he does things is stupid fast. Of course, none get as popular as he does because imitations never are as good as the original.
And I mean people who legitimately studied his art and copy him, not using cheap low quality tricks like shexyo (who ironically is one of the more popular "CSR clones" because of CSR getting mad, drawing attention to him via calling him out, and shexyo just leveraging that like a gigachad - "no press is bad press" really is the rule.)

>>7622569
Actually I'm going to take back what I said and say I actually agree that it doesn't cause lost sales, but neither does "inconveniencing" your subs by making them click one extra link.
I just hate how retarded and entitled pirates seem to be, calling us entitled for paywalling as if we'd even be drawing for no money.
Not to mention if you're talking about relaxing, how many retards can't just keep it to themselves and have to reupload from kemono to every booru, imageboard, reddit and twitter? They're actually stupid too, I've gotten multiple dms from ESLs asking why don't the links on kemono work like it's an artist charity site.
I've been doing it long enough that I don't care anymore and even find it humorous. But doing any of the antipiracy I mentioned before won't hurt you either and once you start doing it you'll stop caring, it's just that first step that makes you nervous about audience reaction.
So yes it won't make a difference to your bottom line if you do or don't, but I think it's more fair to the people who actually support you. If you really are a 5k a month artist then your kemono probably has 8000 favorites, not to mention probably 10x that many people who don't favorite but still go to see your work for free and feel the need to redistribute from there. Compared to how many actual supporters?

>>7622569
>>7622570
>it's that Gloss took a big break at one point and when he came back his art was more "academic" and killed most of the soul in it.
Didn't Gloss also used to draw loli porn as well?

>>7622260
All the major popular artists have dropped in half according to graphtreon.
Because to be completely honest, they deserve it. I don't see any of them engaging with their own community. They'll just get used to train an ai model cause who cares.
They're asshole enough to charge for free shit that's on kemono. We know and they know...

>>7622623
80k a year for drawing two pictures a month is still crazy good and only pinups to boot

>>7622623
Do you remember what happen at around 2020 right? Covid happen and everyone and their grandmother get bored in quarantine and spend their money online for whatever it is.
it's not just artist, but everyone and everything.
So it's not dropping but normalize.

>>7622623
This is one guy. I'd like to see actual proof of "all" the popular artists having dropped by that much. Most ones that I looked up saw a slight drop around 2022 to a small part thanks to ai probably but mostly due to >>7622640
I don't think that patreon artists are going away any time soon because people who donate to patreons aren't actually paying for art. The overwhelming majority of coom art is already free or can be easily accessed for free. The reason why people donate to patreons is because of the parasocial connection it forms with the artist. They enjoy being "part" of the process and being able to influence the artist in some way

What do we think about Nat the Lich? The numbers are hidden so I can't tell if they're popular patreon-wise

>>7622612
>but neither does "inconveniencing" your subs by making them click one extra link
Once more, contrary to your entire viewpoint, there is proof that an increased number of clicks does indeed make less people click the thing. It's a very well-studied subject in marketing online.
You may think it doesn't, but it slows your growth significantly if a large-enough portion of people won't clickthru. You are leaving exponential growth on the table.

>>7622613
He is buddies with Eigaka so he used to just draw whatever. I don't remember any loli art specifically and don't care to check.

>>7622630
>>7622640
Don't respond to bait. Hide or report such retards, it's likely sharty trolling once again because artists are easy lolcows to fuck with and this board has a large revolving door of newfags who aren't wise to them.

>>7622623
What do you consider as "engaging with your own community"? Polls? Actually talking to people on Discord?

>>7622649
>your growth significantly if a large-enough portion of people won't clickthru
They already paid at that point but hey what do I know

>>7622669
Each person who is grasped by your work will also likely share it to others who they want to experience it. If even seeing the work is a pain in the ass you aren't growing, you are just extracting value from what you already have.

You should dedicate 20% of your artistic "work hours" to business/marketing/accounting shit. Most artists dedicate like 5-10% WITHOUT someone else to delegate these tasks to and they suffer from it, such as by having retarded takes like yours.

>>7622253
>I got mine lol
totally believable, totally not ragebait

this thread reminds me of the income threads in /o/ where half the thread makes over 100k/yr, or the dick/height threads in /fit/ where half the thread is 8 inches / 6'2" or more. its crazy for a failing right wing anime board how many tall, well hung, wealthy and successful people we have!

>>7622671
literally has nothing to do with what you advertise or post publicly but I figured you were just larping to trolling
I post occasionally in these threads since other artists helped me too. I'm sure anyone serious and with the capability will be able to sift through the crabs and larpers.

>>7622191
i don't remember posting this...

>>7622679
>literally has nothing to do with what you advertise or post publicly
People share images in "private" (discord servers, telegram groups, etc). You're really not aware of how social communication works on the internet.

>>7622719
ok? I never said to stop posting publicly or to stop advertising.

>>7622569
>>7622570
Gloss was never good, his composition is awful and his stuff always looked incomplete

>>7622750
My point is you want to be rolling the dice as often as possible. Gating things behind hoops also comes with the consideration that you have to decide what it is you gate (and for how long if so).
The more inconvenient, the more people expect it to be worth it. But the more worth it, the better it is to just release it into the wild.

Creating artificial scarcity is just generally retarded.

Is making your default patreon tier 10 dollars an overkill? My logic is that I'd rather have fewer fans who are richer than more fans but poorer, which would also translate to a better community quality (like Discord and shit). What do we think

>>7622605
But doesn't shexyo just traces over AI? I knew that he s a csr copycat but lately it seems like he is just straight up using AI to do all the heavy lifting and tracing on top of it.

>>7622775
Make one 1000000 dollar tier
Then you only need one patron

>>7622794
So pretty much painting for aristocracy

>>7622791
That's the point of mentioning him yes. Shexyo is a lazy hack has been tracing random shit since day 1 as his baselines for his art and painting over them. I mentioned him specifically as he is the exception to the other CSR clones (and because people ALWAYS bring him up). He would have peaked and faded into irrelevance if CSR didn't call him out.

The other CSR copycats don't do the lazy shit he does. They just are nowhere in my mind because I don't care much for CSR's work to begin with outside of him being an interesting data point as one of the most prolific pinup artists. Why would I care about a discount version?

>>7622804
>Why would I care about a discount version?
Would anyone care about this to such a degree if significant money wasn't involved?

>>7622605
Is speed really that important? Don't people want to see something good instead of... something whatever? Or am I out of touch with coomers and they'll eat shit up as long as it's 24/7

>>7622650
Anything, if you look at the comments or their activity, they never reply, or take notice of others that aren't on their level.
same with Nat the Lich.

You can look at their post, and it's always like (pic related). "character name, highrez in the bio"

That could be a robot for all that we know.

like bitch we already know that there's links in the bio.

Whenever i make a post i usually say, "I like Momo's breasts so i drew them this way." or "have you've drawn today for the slave system that is social media?". Things to update people on where you are at in your art journey.

I'm not going to remind people with each post that you can get my highrez art on my patreon because they should already know that by now, If they don't then they're a complete fucking retard that probably doesn't know how to use a credit card anyways so why bother with them. Or they're a retard from India that just got free internet access.

I always leave a thumbs up or a heart even if i don't know what to say at the time.
I'm also guilty of not looking at other people's profiles recently and commenting because of IRL issues. When i see a smaller account i usually repost them. You'll never see a big account do this. I stopped reposting you guys from 4chan because you guys don't draw porn like me and i know people are just watching me to study my fundamentals. I actually have fun posting stuff online and i try to show it. but recently I've been getting tired with all the fetish shit.

Popular artists want to keep their profiles clean i guess, but c'mon, that's a lie. You keep your accounts clean on your Patreon where the money goes or maybe pixiv. Twitter is the platform that you send Jslutty reaction images and follow the politics staircase leading to Donald Trump or Elon Muskrat meme shit.

That sums it all up i guess.

>>7622846
I get what you're saying but as an artist who does classy coom (not that far from Nat actually), I genuinely don't feel like engaging with people who I know are degenerate and not right in the head. Yes, I appreciate their support but there's a certain distance you have to keep if you want to retain sanity or just stay true to yourself. Frankly I feel like 99% on the internet repulse me, maybe that's how it is for the artists that don't engage as much?

>>7621867 (OP)
jews made all the porn free so honest workers can no longer get paid

>>7622650
you're talking to the schizo who thinks that everyone who draws has personally traveled back in time to harm him specifically
his entire response is about him anyways, like oh everyone should do what I do

>>7622828
I'm not an envious cunt so I wouldn't know.
>>7622829
He has the combo of good, fast and cheap. He is effectively a unicorn. That's why.
Even then, the fact he's good is only relatively. CSR has some wack choices at times. If he spent more time on any individual work I'm sure it would be better.
>>7622846
>Popular artists want to keep their profiles clean i guess, but c'mon, that's a lie.
It's not. Twitter is an advertising platform. You act like a brand or Elon's GLEEMAX central social credit repository places you in the consoomer tier and will not boost you. Working around that is a pain in the ass.
>Twitter is the platform that you send Jslutty reaction images and follow the politics staircase leading to Donald Trump or Elon Muskrat meme shit.
If you do this you are basically telling the algo you are not a profressional account. Acting like this is more useful on bsky. On twitter there are defined actions that boost/hurt you, following which is congruent to how brand accounts act. I have said this in other threads but you have to roleplay as your own social media manager while using twitter, and avoid doing anything that might get you fired. Which includes basically every single use that would be fine on a "personal account" but not on a "business account."

>>7622856
>I genuinely don't feel like engaging with people who I know are degenerate and not right in the head.
On twitter? Just respond to people who comment on your work. That's all you have to do, even throwaway comments. It gives a bunch of tweepcred boost.

>>7621867 (OP)
$400 is decent [spoiler]if you live in 3rd world country[/spoiler]

>>7622914
A /pol/ double whammy: Everything is flooded with degenerate porn and also stole muh jerbs

I draw requests for free. I just like making art. It doesn't have to make money.

>>7621867 (OP)
>making gooner content for basement dwellers isn't an exceptionally profitable use of my time and ability
how is this surprising? even your typical day dreamer art students that don't intend to produce degenerate content for the terminally online know that art already isn't a career path with a particularly high earning potential on average.

>>7622165
100% this.
Anons can be a bit touchy about it but you have to consider your audience AND whatever other artists and AI slop is currently offering in the market.

The market was already super saturated before with the amount of artists joining the twitter race, to the point where you would have some artists reveling they are actually hot biofem girls who also do cosplay and posts alongside their art. Just to get a few extra clicks and to drive more engagement to their accounts. That is how bad it was before this. And the fact that quite a high percentage of your audience won't ever give you money just makes it way harder.

And now you have to sort of conciser making more interesting pics or maybe make a comic or a erotic doujin that most people aren't willing to put in the work. Because you are thinking about the average numbers game AI is going to beat every single one.

You need to remember, only having good artistic skills isn't enough to have a bigger reach or a bigger patreon count. Is how you market yourself and what sort of brand you want to build when you are offering your stuff.

>>7623094
>>7622165

I don't think this is true. Leaving the pandemic was a much bigger drop for me than the rise of AI.

FWIW I've been drawing for 12 years and have had a a Patreon since 2018. I mostly do pin up stuff and my comm queue is always full

>>7623097
How much do you charge for comms?

>>7623058
Could you make money though?

>>7623101
90 for a sketch

180-220 for an illustration depending if it needs detailed background or not.

>>7623097
Digital or painted? Wich paper sizes?

>>7621867 (OP)
$400 is kind of a lot for doing basically nothing.

If you are really talented and productive, the money will come to you. If not, then it's better to not even think about the money and just try to get better and draw more.

>>7623097
What type of characters you draw? If you aren't gunning for the FOTM, or chasing trends I would argue that you could be right.

>>7623102
Probably? I've done a couple paid commissions before but I was miserable doing them.

>>7623191
It's like 95% digital. Sometimes I draw charcoal sketches in a 9"x6" sketchbook

>>7623216
I've never done FOTM characters unless I really like them which is extremely rare.

I technically don't even do OC because I feel it's very cringe to come up with backstories and all that fluff without a solid enough narrative purpose which seems to be most of the OCs out there

Most of my works are original nameless characters, I only do fan arts when I get commissioned to do so

>>7623208
Agree

>>7623029
and it was da jooz who dun it
so a triple whammy

>>7621872
Support is not charity. If it was charity patrons would expect nothing in return, but obviously they do because they'll cancel their pledges if you don't deliver anything.

>>7622569
You're full of shit, Gloss's old shit was objectively ugly, you're probably lookinbg at it with rose-tinted glasses because it was porn. His new stuff is dynamic and much better composed. You're smoking dick thinking otherwise.

Picrel was from last year meanwhile the thing you posted I think is from like 2018. He's shown improvement year after year, he just doesn't draw porn and is working on some visual novel.

>>7623838
anon, remember. Porn is good no matter what and better than everything to cumstain fags like him. this is the mentality these fags have >>7622653, everything not porn is boring to them.

>>7623426
>I've never done FOTM characters unless I really like them which is extremely rare.
see? That is why I'm talking about. Sadly you weren't affected by it. But artists who only draw FOTM pin ups took a bit hit

>>7623934
>Sadly you weren't affected by it
*lucky you weren't affected by it
sorry, I don't want to wish you any misfortune. I hope you can keep having a lot of comms and living of this wonderful craft.

pretty sure this is the place to ask, I'm looking to make content that's banned on some platforms. What's the best option for taking/keeping track of commisions? I've heard some people having issues with paypal, so any help is appreciated. also feel free to critique my artwork, the colors are pretty bland so far but it'll be blueish night scenes with lots of pink hues and I am having fun learning how to put it all together in blender

>scene concept: coco is taking back her tablet that crash filled with porn and viruses (planned for degredation, light hypnosis, somnophilia, reverse rape, incest, etc)

>>7623743
>he believes the lie that charity is completely selfless
Oh boy you are gonna get hit with a big ego death at some point when you learn a bit more about the world.

>>7623838
>crappy lighting on the face and hair and far arm
>that disgusting hand
>inconsistent control over hard edges and soft edges
>random ass feather curling in with fucked perspective
>tangent lines everywhere
>no sense of place in the image, could be giantess? Could be on the floor? What the fuck is this?
You just like when more of the canvas is colored, don'cha?

>>7623934
>But artists who only draw FOTM pin ups took a bit hit
This is like saying "scalpers took a bit hit" when they increased the production of PS5s

>>7624308
nta but you sound like a try-hard faggot lol

>>7624360
>adhom
>not even a good one, just "you're right"
I accept your concession.

>>7624308
it's style

I'm planning on posting fully finished NSFW illustrations soon, but i fear something will go wrong since i've never even posted sketches, wips, etc... Idk... Would you guys find it weird?

>>7624739
Make a seperate Twitter account for nsfw art because you can't flag individual posts. It's everything or nothing there. Nothing weird about it.

>>7624751
Aight, will do. Thanks for the advice.

>>7622507
>ignoring
I literally fucking adressed it directly, you're a faggot

>>7624391
am the asshole.
you still sound like an edgy try-hard faggot but sure I'll bite
>Their rendering and the subject matter of their art doesn't appeal to me much since most of it is hyper-fetish content. But their line art is great, and has only gotten better since then.
>Motives towards charity may differ but the act of charity itself is inherently selfless, as you are giving up something for the benefit of another. In terms of Patreon, it is dependant on the motives of the patron.
I think you are only trying to appear cool and cynical by stating otherwise, combined with the lack of understanding of the word.

>>7621867 (OP)
It's really a question of what kind of audience you cultivate and how you get them.

Getting -an- audience is just the first step to being a successful artist, and you have to consider who is paying attention to you.

>Largest audience
Will require you to have your finger on the pulse of what is and isn't popular. Will probably require you to keep up with meme culture and constantly base art around it. Shitpost artists are actually pretty great at this without necessarily being masters at their craft, they just understand how to farm engagement by hitting a hot-button topic in a way that makes people laugh or otherwise titilates.

>Audience that actually spends money
Will usually require touching on extreme niche topics or being into normie things but extremely good at your craft. You will have to work yourself to the bone to keep their attention, and will have to outdo yourself to get engagement. Like other anon said, these people usually support themselves through commissions. High-profile furry and degen artists used to fill this niche and largely still do.

>Graduating into the professional market
This will require the hardest work and the best mastery of your craft. The Kim Jung Gi's etc of the art world go this way. You'll end up working a lot of projects you probably don't care about to pay the bills and will effectively relegate the hobby part of drawing to livestreams where you draw literally anything you want amazingly live for what is comparatively pocket change to your actual professional life.

>Webcomic/Doujin Audience
You will have to regularly release comics that showcase either your drawing skills, storytelling ability, sense of humor, or a mix of these to be successful. You'll have to build a consistent release schedule and extensive body of work.

These factors are sort of lost on the average 4channer, who is usually broke, deeply arrogant on the subject of taste, uncultured most of the time, and uncharismatic.

>>7624986
Continued as post was too long.

>Websomic/Doujin Audience
You can also become basically a content cow this way, where people endlessly repost your work or recycle it somehow. This will bring attention to your work at the cost of sort of diluting it in a weird way. If you can accept that with grace you can leverage it to your advantage and occasionally reach out to whoever's using your work to actually shill your patreon/gumroad/whatever. Just be careful not to become a lolcow.

You'll also have to keep in mind that the positive feedback loop of making money off your art will influence the way you create work. Artists often latch onto whatever makes them immediately successful and it can stunt their growth as creators, but it pays their bills.

>That web comic artist who does nothing but strawmen comics at a fairly low-to-mid level?
Pobably got the most success out of that formula once or twice and has been chasing that high ever since. When artists fall out of touch being stuck in this creative loop destroys them mentally and slowly withers their profit margin.

If you don't have a plan for a shortcut to success you shouldn't try for that. Instead cultivate your own voice and abilities and just try to release things regularly which show people you're worth following, rather than looking for excuses to not even try. With any luck you will be able to supplement your passive income through commissions.

>>7625003
Final

The other thing to think about is actually doing art IRL. This is getting popular due to AI and bots basically ruining the online experience and making real life cool again. People IRL are still really impressed at people who can draw on paper. You can market yourself this way (I make a living this way, it's modest but I've made it work for about 5 years, I'm not gonna PMW) but that requires you do IRL business things like make business cards and harass companies with samples of your work.

>>7625012
IRL art will gain value but I'll be honest, digital art is too fun for me, I'll never be that guy who impresses girls with drawing irl. I just want to sit in my room painting and playing with sliders.

>>7624869
Humans act in their own subjective self-interest. This is not "edgy", it is a simple fact of life. Charity is given as it is seen as worth the money - hence why all these crowdfund sites are DONATIONS. Donations are literally charity. There is nothing lesser or shameful about this, fucking krita and other Free Software runs off of charity, it is a legitimate, albiet risky business model. Hence why you should diversify your artistic income and not entirely rely on it.

In regards to gloss, you simply said "better" without backing it up. I gave specific issues. Kindly, please understand that what most bothers me is how he basically restarted his art down a completely different path that focuses on very lumpy body shapes, inconsistent textures and a dearth of expressive faces.

>>7624986
>>7625003
>>7625012
>>7625509
Thanks for the writeup, Doc

I know this guy, gloss is one of the most stupidest persons i know when it comes to sell your shit. He has a big name, a lot of people like his art but he was unable to capitalize it correctly.

>be good at painting slop to the point that asian people respect you
>turns out is only because you draw shota and loli
>complains for years
>improve only his renders
>tries to cover his tracks becoming sfw artist
>time to time having to deal with the pedo accusations from people who digs trying to find more art after pinterest recommend his slop
>still loved by people, have a sucesfull patreon
>out of nowhere decides to make a visual novel about some random oc's
>people still support him
fastforward some years
>game gets "bigger" but people has to wait more
>not even a demo has been released
>lost a lot of support to the point that his patreon is on 3 digits
>his commissions have reached cope mode, charging above 500 dollars
>asians call him out as a retard for pretending to be one of them and charging ridiculous ammounts of money for his slop

in top of that, cyancapsule released a visual novel about fucking a pig and was a massive sucess, also, ehm, guys... gloss is black...

>>7621941
Too painterly I wouldn't jerk off to this

>>7625668
Unironically this happens to me some times, whenever i see Chifudoon's art i just pause and check the rendering and lighting, it's so gorgeous.

>>7625647
he pretended to be asian? lmao
fags not owning up to having drawn lolisho get no respect from me

>>7625848
>fags not owning up to having drawn lolisho get no respect from me
respect from a spastic retard like you means nothing and your kind wouldn't give him money anyway.

>>7621867 (OP)
patreon was THE SHIT 10 years ago but then everyone got one so only like... 4 people make any money on it. Same for onlyfans and kickstarter.

>>7625826
>Chifudoon's
lol what. What retarded faggot would ever believe this? Like, this game is retarded as fuck.

>>7625647
>asians call him out as a retard for pretending to be one of them and charging ridiculous ammounts of money for his slop
proof?

>>7625855
>t.not worthy of respect

>>7625883
money and power = respect
being seen as "based" =/=

>>7625886
utterly incorrect and seething

>>7625861
nigga what

>>7625886
Totally disney-pilled and MBA-coded, bro! Why are you playing in the kiddy pool with us? This is a big dick /biz/ material post!

>>7625909
>>7625978
no matter how much you cope, the shit you find "based" will always be forgotten and never make any money. It's only remembered by a few autist that like to pretend their taste are the only good ones, just like those lain faggots.

>>7625979
>It's only remembered by a few autist
Do you need anything more? Better to be remembered by the dedicated than forgotten by the fickle mainstream

>>7622648
She was pretty popular around /ic/ when she posted here. No clue about what her patreon numbers are like but you can get an idea from her social media probably.

>>7622504
NTA but are you serious or trolling, anon? League of legends style slop?

>>7627027
Lately there has been an uptick of chinese retards on this website

>>7625979
>loli doesn't make money
makes more than that arrogant, literal nigger

>>7621867 (OP)
Apparently about 0,2% of one's audience is POTENTIALLY willing to support them monetarily.
That's about 200 people. Getting 2 bucks from 200 people every month isn't THAT bad, especially if they don't offer any personalized services like commissions.

>>7621867 (OP)
gloss (i think that's gloss) does private commissions on top of the work he's doing for his game and his patreon income iirc
when you have that kind of a following that's been built over 5-10+yrs, you don't need to advertise comms; you usually have a stable of respectable, dependable patrons with a history of positive rapport that come to you when they want something new and you happily oblige because they are easy to work with
>>7622054
they hated him because he spoke the truth (this largely applies only to newcomers)

>>7627086
forgot to mention: gloss is also an industry vet - he worked in animation, and likely still does
when you're an artist, you have multiple sources of income. it's a given.

get his dick out of your mouth and stop lying

>>7622515
Yeah the background is so bad compared to teh actual characters

>>7621867 (OP)
I vaguely remember this nigger throwing a hissy fit because some randos on twitter said something was off about the armpit or some shit on one of his drawing...thin-skinned bitch

>>7627066
It's not 0.2%, it's 2%.
Roughly 10% of the people who follow you will interact with your art by commenting/etc, anything more than "push button and scroll. Includes joining your discord server or trying to message you or whatever.
Roughly 10-20% of THAT number will be willing to pay you. They are primarily drawn from the interacter pool, but includes some who never talk to you beyond commissioning or just silently throw money at your crowdfund or other paid options.
>>7627089
>gloss is also an industry vet
Ah that explains why his art got all gross. Either from getting buck broken by industry training or from consciously splitting things out of fearing people connect his lives. What a sad existence.

>>7627325
>said by a fag that will never get anywhere with his “art”
At least the fag is actually making money with his art and in the art industry, unlike you, shitter. Besides most artist treat their patrons, kofis, or whatever as a tip jar.

I make AI assisted art, it takes mere minutes and a sketch for me to make something that takes you hours. Any pose, comic pages, doesn't matter. And gooners care less about ethics of AI, especially if your stuff is good.

My advice would be to develop your brand and a personality to stand out among the brown jeet sludge hopping on the AI hype train. Become a egirl or femboy and post your pics, cosplay, engage your audience damn it

>>7627335
>stand out among the brown jeet sludge hopping on the AI hype train.
Why are you trashing on your own kind?

>>7627089
there is where you are wrong, he has tried really hard to become part of the industry but failed every time, his art isnt anything relevant for any studio and there are 1k asians read to do something better.

besides, one single google search and u find his loli/shota so, pretty sure he will never hit industry level.

>>7627332
It isn't necessary to debase yourself. If you can stop being depressed for 5 minutes you can realize that as long as you pass a certain skill and output level there are enough people who will indeed enough people out there who would pay you enough for your authentic art. You just have to reach them.

I agree that "passive income" sources are just a tip jar/charity box though. Diversify your income, take comms, take multiple payment options, and have investments too.

>>7627351
NTA: Civilized people see themselves as individuals and not representatives of larger groups. Even though he's engaged in lowbrow work, he probably doesn't see "artists" as some kind of opposing group. Even a mafioso will encourage others to not join his "family" as his underling if he thinks they can make it in a more wholesome business.

>>7627364
Oh so he got DOUBLE buck broken, lol.

>>7627351
There's people who just generate slop without second thought, people who heavily edit AI output, people who use AI to finish their art and like a billion other ways of using AI. You don't magically become a brown sludge maker just by toying with AI tools

>>7622202
>like an unofficial, out of date free trial.
That's what social media is, retard.
There is absolutely no proof to this argument. This isn't a big company where a small pool of pirates won't eat in to profits. This is an indie creator with a limited audience, there is a high likelihood that people who would have paid won't when they can get it for free.
>>7622569
You need an actual source to back up this shit you're spewing. Basing the piracy argument which uses LARGE CORPORATIONS as it's test data is not comparable. For indie games, there is actually evidence to the contrary of what you're saying (though in some cases, it can boost advertisement too).
https://www.engadget.com/2008-11-13-world-of-goo-has-90-piracy-rate.html
>We received a tip pointing to the comments section of a recent RockPaperShotgun post, in which World of Goo designer Ron Carmel mentioned the game had a staggering 90% piracy rate. We contacted Carmel directly, who confirmed the figure was "about right."
>Carmel informs us that he's seen torrent sites with "500 seeders and 300 leechers" and has received emails from people who initially stole the game but ended up buying the full product; unsurprisingly, they make up a "very small percentage." He concludes, "We're doing ok, though. We're getting good sales through WiiWare, Steam, and our website. Not going bankrupt just yet!"
In the art market, if you're already popular on social media, people ripping your content for kemono etc does what, exactly? What advertisement are you getting? People likely already know who you are, it doesn't do shit for you.
I am pro piracy, btw. But I'm not stupid enough to think that indie content and AAA content play by the same rules.

>>7627335
>my advice
how do we know you didn't just ask chatgpt instead?

Nothing I draw has any sexy form to it because if I'm using a reference I end up changing things because I dont want to just copy it 1:1

>>7630219
>there is a high likelihood that people who would have paid won't when they can get it for free.
Those people stop paying when something else catches their eye (for free or cheaper or just "the same thing but more often") anyway. Attempting to appeal to such people is retarded.

>People likely already know who you are
I'm sorry but this is just demonstrative of a lack of understanding just how big the world actually is, and many people you can potentially reach. I keep finding individuals - people who are well over 18 and enjoy art - that have zero concept of said "popular" artists and go "who?" when they're offhandedly mentioned. Like, people with 500k+ followers, completely unknown.

>>7627335
PYW aibro

>>7630437
These two concepts have nothing to do with each other. You're just bad. Fix that by practicing instead of anonymously coping to strangers