So what exactly separates faux-anime from actual anime? And if it's just a matter of anatomy and proportions, then what separates anime from stuff like 80s/90s cartoons?

>>7634294 (OP)
>what separates anime from stuff like 80s/90s cartoons
Artistry. Technique. Skill. Taste. Literary mastery.

Please. We need "faux anime". If every cartoon was anime I'd just find another hobby.

>>7634304
Don't worry, low tier goyslop that takes no skill isn't going away anytime soon.

>>7634313

and that's a good thing

>>7634294 (OP)
They think Anime is just big eyes and shovel chin and take only those superficial elements. They don't bother actually learning the style, what makes it look good. And because philosophically everything has to be "unique" or "individualistic" they couldn't learn it properly even if they wanted to because it just doesn't jive with their beliefs or what they've been taught. It's impossible for them.

Couple that with the type of person that it's in the animation industry as well as their political beliefs it gets even worse. Not to mention the lack of artistic skill.

>>7634294 (OP)
It's obvious right? If there's any question, then it's not Anime.

>>7634316
>It's impossible for them.
This. You could hold their hand and teach them everything and they still would refuse to do things properly. They are brainwashed.

>>7634294 (OP)
I don’t know. Both use the same Korean/Chinese/SEA studios for outsourcing, right?
Anyways, right no-2 has pretty-anime faces. It’s just the perspective and pose seem off.

If we ignore the color schemes and line quality, I think the people on the right haven’t done enough gesture drawing and live drawing. The drawings lack weight.

>>7634294 (OP)
>what exactly separates faux-anime from actual anime?
Faux-anime is a cheap knockoff. There is no genuine attempt at understanding anime on a fundamental level. They're just copying surface-level traits like "muh big eyes", and "muh pointy chin", and often force their own retarded ideas into it for no reason other than ego.
>If it's just a matter of anatomy and proportions
It's not. The fundamental difference lies in 2D design, like the actual lines, shapes, composition, gesture, etc. This isn't something that can be easily taught, it has to be autistically studied over thousands of hours.

>>7634358
>westoids glorify muh fundamentals but refuse to study or question actual 2D fundamentals
Really makes you think...

Would you say I draw anime or faux anime?

>>7634294 (OP)
This board has a very narrow definition of "anime," a word that, in Japan, encompasses all animated works. Even if you take the international definition of "animation originating from Japan," there is tremendous variety in style (see picrel, all anime). Still, I don't understand this board's obsession with "westoid" and "faux-anime." The shows on the right of OP's pic aren't meant to fool anyone into believing they come from Japan. Avatar looks nothing like Japanese animation; it just has an Asian-inspired setting. Vox Machina is an LGBTQ diversity brigade production with a style that is partly inspired by anime (trannies love anime). The best animation from both Japan and America is all in the past. Cost-cutting measures such as widespread adoption of CGI have ensured that nothing on the achievement scale of Akira (1988) will ever again come out of Japan, nor will the early masterpieces of Disney ever be matched. If you're talking about lower-tier entertainment — Saturday morning cartoon fare — some of the American productions of the 1980s and early '90s were actually pretty good. The Rambo animated series (1986) had such comic book talents as Alfredo Alcala and Jack Kirby working on it. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987), X-Men and Batman the Animated Series (both 1992) were all fun and engaging to watch. Still, Japan clearly places a higher value than America on drawn works — comics and animation, which, in Japan, are closely interrelated as many anime productions are adaptations of manga and vice-versa.

>>7634468
>The shows on the right of OP's pic aren't meant to fool anyone into believing they come from Japan.
They literally are

>>7634431
you draw begshit, so neither

>>7634294 (OP)
Looking just at the pictures you have posted it seems like the faux-anime uses a greater variety of body types and face shapes to differentiate its characters where actual anime uses clothing, hairstyle and color to accomplish the same thing. Look at the bottom shows. The faux-anime gives the front male huge shoulders, like twice the breadth of the woman touching him, and a square chin. The black man in back has a pointed chin and far more narrow figure. But their hair is all nearly the same color, and they’re all wearing pants. If we compare with the bottom actual anime, SpyXFamily, literally everyone has not only a different hair color but also style, they all wear different styles of coat (though we can’t see most of their legs), and the difference in body types between the man and woman is toned down.

If we do a comparison between the lower-middle row, the story is similar. The faux-anime, Vox Machina, has a gnome or halfling man in front, a gunman in a long coat and average shoulders in back, a knifeman in a crouched stance with broader shoulders, and then the bald axman with the square chin has the broadest. At least in this angle and lighting, little emphasis is placed on their hair and clothing and it seems to blend together more. The women are less varied in body type, with the short one in front and the remaining two look the same.

Meanwhile, the actual anime Frieren, gives all the characters different hairstyles that you immediately notice. Frieren, the woman in front has white twin tails, Fern in back has long purple hair and the man in the back has short red and black hair. The differences in their clothing is readily apparent in the bright daylight. Frieren has a sort of caplet or mantle with gold edges while Fern has a long black coat over a white dress, and the man in back has a red coat and baggy pants that are interrupted by tight fitting socks or long boots. But the shape of their faces is all the same.

Why are you guys actually seriously responding to this thread? we get this thread at least 3 times a month by the same retarded kid who seems to be forever locked in his weeb "I watched 10 animes and know everything" phase. This has been going on for years and he won't stop. Just as autistic as the guy in the tablet thread.

I'm only saying this now so that I have reference in the future for the archive.

>>7634490

>>7634469
Have you considered anime has been popular in the West for long enough that Western artists working in the industry now just based their styles off of it?

Also something I've noticed about anime is the way the light looks, like anime has slightly increased gamma.

>>7634490
its zoomers only way of socializing

>>7634484
>>7634294 (OP)
The upper-mid faux anime has a larger variety of body types, and face shapes, while the actual anime on the left, Mob Psycho, gives both characters the same face just with a different hairstyle. The faux-anime characters have similar suits with different detailing, while the actual anime’s Mob is immediately differentiated by his black school suit.

In Avatar the comparison is less immediate but Sokka (back character) has a more rectangular head than Aang and Katara. Katara and Sokka wear similar clothes. In Tsubasa chronicle most of the characters have similarly shaped faces, and very different clothing. You got the front man in the huge green cape, the woman in the white wrap skirt, the blond man with the tight fitting clothing, and the back man with the big black cape and black and red outfit. The size and shape of their clothing is much more exaggerated than in Avatar.

I think it comes down to a difference of character design. Like >>7634331 mentioned, a lot of both anime and cartoons are outsourced to foreign countries, so it’s not some immutable blood quantum that’s causing it. It’s the same animators. But different character designers. And I think what’s going on is that all character designers have the natural duty to differentiate their characters, but the “western” cartoonists are taught to accomplish this by using different body types and face shapes, while the Japanese anime artist or manga-ka is taught to use clothing and hair style. If you look up any “western” character design tutorial they’ll all tell you to make them differentiable by silhouette, and they usually use characters with very different body types as examples.

>>7634471
So am I failing like a Japanese or like an American? Or does the beginning man have no nation?

>>7634294 (OP)
Character Designers, plenty of westerners work in the anime industry and they all nail the anime art style, down to the nose.
You have to, otherwise you don't make it.

>>7634468
>some of the American productions of the 1980s and early '90s were actually pretty good
Because the animation was usually outsourced to Japan.

>>7634294 (OP)
>what separates anime from 80s/90s cartoons
Some people fail to tell them apart https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2163494
The difference is where they were made.
Anime is the Japanese word for cartoon, so it makes sense to call animated shows that were made in Japan an anime. I do that and I also call animated shows that were made in america cartoons. For everything else, I just use the word for cartoon in my language.
At least that's how I do it.
Same with Manga in Japan, Manhwa in Korea, Manhua in China and Comics in America etc... My language uses "Comic" to refer to comics so I say French comics to describe those because idk the French word.
Regardless, I'd say that Radiant is a French comic and also an Anime because it was animated in Japan.
I think it's a good way to describe things, but it kinda falls apart if an animation was done in multiple countries ig and idk what to call Chinese anime other than Chinese anime.
>What exactly separates them?
>a matter of anatomy and proportions?
Certainly not just that. There are american cartoons that use artstyles that are very reminiscent of those that are popular in Japan.
I think the difference always comes from many little things. Ofc artstyle can be part of that (cal arts mouth etc.), but it's also the way that characters move, the jokes they make, the conventions that are used to convey different kinds of things, the timing and pacing, where and how they use sound effects...
In a lot of american cartoons, characters nod in a funny way: characters won't only move their lips while talking but they won't do anything interesting either, every character just does a weird nodding motion while talking every now and then. Also, the eyebrow game, the zooming in without effect lines to show a character's reaction to something or deliver a one-liner, the colours etc...
It's always a number of things and not always the same ones.
I like both tho, I'm glad they had so many seasons of generator rex.

>>7634294 (OP)
why is tsubasa here?

LOVE! 1966 sculpture by Robert Indiana, very nice, blue and red, very sexy.

>>7634294 (OP)
It's the technique used and the way they aproach it. Japanese think with shapes, that's why their drawing feature more detailed cloth folds and shadows. Americans think with boxes, so they prioritize the dynamic poses and expressions. Anyways, the concept of "beautiful cartoon" is rather new in the west. Realism=beauty cartoon=funny was the norm.

>>7634294 (OP)
>anime = little to no darkskins
>faux anime = darkskins
having dark colored skin is considered evil and ugly in eastern culture so they avoided as much as they can.

>>7635282
>Racism is normal in eastern culture
Implicit racism is also normal in the US.
There are US cartoons that have little to no black characters as well which is pretty on par with some Japanese anime having a black character somewhere in the background.
Some anime do put more focus on black and dark skinned characters though and obviously not everyone from a racist culture is racist.
You can't tell a cartoon apart from an anime with just that single criterion. As I said, you need multiple criteria for an accurate judgement.

>>7634431
if you posted this to pixiv under a japanese name I'd believe you, it sorta looks like it's influenced by 70's anime

>>7634294 (OP)
The second and third western examples are hideous, and it may be a controversial opinion, but I always thought Avatar was fairly bland, visually, as well. The only appealing cartoon there is the superman show.

So for now I'll just say the difference is appeal, even though there's clearly more than that.

>>7634294 (OP)
Just a matter of different stylizations.

>>7634294 (OP)
>So what exactly separates faux-anime from actual anime
the koreans that draw faux anime are paid by americans unlike the koreans that draw anime

>>7634294 (OP)
It’s difficult to nail down exactly what the formal features are, but it’s obvious just from taking one look at it

>>7634564
>I think it's a good way to describe things, but it kinda falls apart if an animation was done in multiple countries ig and idk what to call Chinese anime other than Chinese anime.

We should all just admit Japan took over all cartoons since the 80s. I have no clue why even fight about this. America doesn't make cartoons anymore and when they do want some American slop they ask their neighbor to make some trite shit about Kung fu and Sushi or the Chinese elements.

>>7639027
Korea has stolen the cultural victory crown from Japan for the current generation. Even in Japan, the main they're obsessed with is kpop, jpop now only exists to create music for anime OPs. And all jap women are obsessed with Korean cosmetic products and Kdramas.

>>7640954
cosmetics aren't culture and last I checked, korean animation was <20% of the korean market share

>>7634294 (OP)
avatar was animated by gooks if i remember correctly and the other shit was probably outsourced to some random chingchong studio as well
basically op is a retarded weebshit faggot

>>7640954
>Korea has stolen the cultural victory crown from Japan
hahahahahaha

I needed a laugh for today. Thanks, anone.

>So what exactly separates faux-anime from actual anime
Anime is an advertisement for established merchandise (manga).
Faux-Anime is an animated show they hope becomes merchandise.

Anime thinks in lines
Faux-anime thinks in shapes.

Anime doesn't need a story board team, writer's team, or a designer crew, and if they do, it's minimal.
Faux anime does because they don't have the base compositions and designs to take from.

Anime use japanese people as a base more often than not, simplifying proportions
Faux-Anime use a variety of people, making things more complex, sacrificing flexibility in character design for general body shape design.

Manga artists can have one extra step in character design because they don't have to animate it (reducing one step for those that do)
Comic book artists... don't have their shit adapted, honestly. Just the general story.

Think about this, look at Yugioh and Pokemon generations 3 to 6. They're stiff, mediocre, and not very animated except in key parts, and these are the big shots.
Pokemon Generation 7 has them adopt a simpler more western approach to animation and they become more fluid immediately, but not as 3D.
Compare this to the original Teen Titans in terms of trying to bridge styles.

>>7640954
Why can't CCP do the same, anon? With cdrama, mandopop, dong hua, man hua?
Are chinks just inferior?

>>7641354
they are doing it, are you living under a rock?

>>7640988
>cosmetics aren't culture
??
They obviously are.
Just because they're not moid culture doesn't mean they're not culture.

>>7641354
Uhhh.....every top smartphone/crossplay game is a chinese gacha. Are you a grandpa or something?

>>7641632
>>7641637
Fucking wumaos. China is winning in gambling apps department is not something to boast about.

>>7641645

What was the last good anime game out of Japan? They are losing.

>>7641645
nigger, look at what people read on manga sites, it's all gook and chink shit, manga's getting stale

>>7641653
And the gook and chink shit is less stale…?
The majority of manga is low effort copypaste garbage, it’s true. But that’s because that’s just the majority of everything. I have never seen a korean or chink anime/manga that wasn’t the WORST type of low effort copypaste garbage. When you actually do get something with some amount of quality and originality, it’s invariably Japanese.

>>7641660
You're not looking at all. Chinese anime is rising.

>>7641660
>And the gook and chink shit is less stale
according to the readers, yeah, clearly
your opinion of the medium is irrelevant in a discussion about popularity, korea in particular is absolutely decimating japan and there's little chance of the trend reversing
ironically the japanese industry is losing for the exact same reasons the american industry lost to japan

>>7641662
Name a good Chinese anime
>>7641665
Sheeple eat up lowest common denominator dogshit, news at 11

>>7641760
>manga dominates
>wow nihon sugoi, truly the japanese are masters of the craft and a superior culture
>manhwa dominates
>vgh the sheeple have fallen, how hidoi

>someone describes my art style as "western style anime"

>>7641760
>Name a good Chinese anime
we've been over this already. It hasn't even been a full month.

>>7634294 (OP)
Just draw Howie

What separates them? Cartoons can have actual depth while anime needs to spell out every single thing a character is thinking for the teens and man- child retards who do not get actual human beings so have to be told whats going on in a visual medium than shown. The lust for the characters and shitty unrealistic relationships aren't usually in cartoons and usually has a more grounded look at how they would actually be if there is one.

>>7634294 (OP)
Faux anime
>long philtrum
>long midface
>realistic nose
>harsh shading
>high cheekbone
>wide mouth
>muscular over slender
>deep and vivid colors over light and bright
It's harder to do light shading but I bet I could redraw the avatar screenshot following all these rules and it would look like an Eastern anime.
Something about the climate in Japan makes them opt for washed out but colorful shading, similar to Dutch and French art. And the Asian faces have flat cheekbones, and due to multiple famines, value thinness over muscle. (Asians can starve better, so their beauty standards are thinner than Americans, who value muscular and robust frames as beauty.)

>>7634294 (OP)
Just copy manga pages until you're sick of it

>>7641760
>name a good Chinese anime
ntayr but Scissor Seven. It knocked hxh out of my top 3 anime, a title it held for over 7 years. I've been listening to the Scissor Seven OST at the gym on repeat. I'm excited for China if this is what it can produce.
Also Nezha 2 beat Studio Ghibli for best box office sales. Don't discount China just because of prejudice. Watch their stuff and judge yourself. Don't discount the "self published" web novels or manwhas either, Spice and Wolf was a light novel once and Tower of God was a web toon. You should know by now the best content come from indies and not conglomerate established studios.

>>7634294 (OP)
Everything on the right looked like they hired the same character designer for some reason, which I feel is what gives those shows that "faux anime" feel to them. They think anime is just a certain style without ever really exploring or understanding how they're all different forms of expressions derived from different character designers. So most of them default to the standard "anime = big eyes + pointy chin" while combining Western principles of character design i.e. wildly different silhouettes to differentiate characters.

Also this >>7634316

>>7642805
Oh ok, the people who think Chinese anime is good are the ones who enjoy shounenslop and Ghiblislop, LMAO ok thanks for proving my point

>>7642492
Nobody ever described my art that desu

>>7643042
That means you don’t suck

>>7642896
>Everything on the right looked like they hired the same character designer for some reason
Don't they all essentially get outsourced to the same Korean animation sweatshops? It would explain why they look all the same.

>>7642964
Oh so you're one of those ironic anime fans

>>7634294 (OP)
They're trying to be generically anime rather than specifically anime. Each of the examples on the left is both distinctly anime but also has it's own style: same with the examples here >>7634468 But the western examples on the right don't really have their own style and all kind of blend together, especially the lower three. They also tend to round off any detail to this kind of flatness that isn't true to many anime but does fit the "idea" of a generic anime style; compare the old man from Voltron to Woodchuck here. Woodchuck looks aged in a way that dude doesn't, and you can see the same thing with the crit role goons. It's not just faces either, compare the drapery to any of the actual anime and there's a stark difference. Even Tsubasa Chronicle's draperey has a distinct look to it that sets it apart, while the western anime, especially the lower three, see to have flattened out as much as possible. Even tight clothes have folds and pinching, but they reduced them so much it looks odd. This is possibly a budget issue, since western companies want to churn animation out as fast as possible and have no confidence in animation not made for small children, but either way it makes it looks less anime.

looks like studio mir

>>7634294 (OP)
The proportions and the tumblr nose faux anime resembles Cal arts

>>7641649
The Girl From Gunma Kai that released last week. A beautiful, fun, fully hand drawn game

>>7634294 (OP)
Faux anime is just modern day Mattel cartoons. Mostly made by toy companies and committees. So they all have a similar style.

Anime is usually based off a manga artist comic book. So they're is more individual styles. Dragon ball, bleach, one piece, yu gi oh, shaman king, ippo. They're all made by an individual author.

>>7634294 (OP)
Anime is rarely entertaining. Faux anime never is.

All these anime intellectuals trying to explain the differences and superiority of Japanese cartoons, while /asg/ is the most beg-tier general on the board is really funny

>>7634294 (OP)
Not true across the board, but usually for me, its a combination of color choice, more "realistic" proportions with anime markers (i.e. im just gonna put anime eyes where aco eyes would be, lol), and shot composition (impactless action and posing).

Japan is a country full of mundane people aka NPCs with extarorindarily shitty taste
Daily reminder that japanese fags think Big O is lame
Daily reminder that japanese fags think Zelda is a shitty series and the franchise only started selling the amount of copies it did in its early NES/SNES era through Breath of the Wild
Daily reminder that japanese fags actively hate on Sonic the Hedgehog more-so than gaming journos
Daily reminder that japanese fags were such a burden towards Suda 51 that it almost closed Grasshopper if it weren't for No More Heroes overseas success giving the company more job opportunities
Daily reminder that japanese fags don't care about Metroid or Castlevania Symphony of the Night
Daily reminder that japanese fags actively ignoring Capcom's 2D output in arcades lead to the dark age of Capcom fighters until Street Fighter IV because they only cared about Virtua Fighter
Daily reminder that japanese fags barely plays Tekken, market is only 3% Europe and America does all the heavy lifting
Daily reminder that japanese fags barely play SNK games outside of Fatal Fury
Daily reminder that Japanese fags hated Tim Burton's Batman
Daily reminder that during a poll with japanese fags on popular anime on MAL they rated Bunny Senpai and the Sword Art Online spin-off higher than Vinland and JoJo
Daily reminder that japanese fags rated battles from DBS higher than several moments from OG and Z (that includes the battles against Moro and a spar between Beast Gohan and Goku being higher than those against Vegeta, Cell and Piccolo Jr)
Daily reminder that the highest watching american show in Japan in the current year is The Walking Dead
Daily reminder that most "Cinephile" japanese fags think Akira Kurosawa is a bad director

>>7634294 (OP)
browridge and lighting

>>7651076
most people die in hospitals, we gotta get rid of those deadly buildings!

>>7652509
You can't drop these blackpills like that on the hecking anime website

>>7652509
>Japan is a country full of mundane people aka NPCs with extarorindarily shitty taste
So is India what's your point?

>>7654866
that the deification of japan and by extension japanese people is as retarded as if 4fags started creaming their pants over any other country and treating it as a mystical unreachable impossible to achieve state of perfection because it produced some good cartoons

>>7634294 (OP)
I think the real issue here is that the character designs are just plain generic. That's it. Everything, from clothes to faces and facial expressions, all looks generic and boring/bland. They are very unappealing too. That's what makes faux-anime faux-anime. Also, never watched Tsuabasa but it looks like shit too. Could very well be western. And Avatar doesn't look bad at all.

Faux-anime is when /ic/ fags cherry-picks bad looking western cartoons to compare it with anime just to demoralize anyone who tries to draw anime or a similar style. Western animation may suck now but it did have some good stuff at some point. Some of them could easily be mistaken as anime or at least something similar in quality.

>>7652509
Video games and anime are made for Japanese children.
If you enjoy them, you’re a manchild.

>>7654912
Is ken-sama in the room with us right now, kumar?

>>7634468
>This board has a very narrow definition of "anime," a word that, in Japan, encompasses all animated works.
You're right, but you're also being disingenuous if you say you don't think there's some sort of stylistic follow-through with the vast, VAST, majority of Japanese animated work that immediately makes go 'oh, that's anime (japanese)'.
There's a certain look to their work, a "je ne sais quoi" that seems very hard to capture that separates Japanese work from others, that also makes their work often immediately identifiable as such.

Going back to "Faux Anime", the issue isn't taking inspiration from japanese work, people have been inspired by Japanese comics and animation and incorporating that inspiration since the 80's, rather the issue seems to be that it just flat out lacks much appeal.
If the style was good, people wouldn't mind, but it's not that good, so people have grown tired of it.
Look at the 'beanmouth' calarts style (a dead horse, I know), people got bored of that shit fairly quickly, despite some great shows using that look.
Meanwhile, there's many, MANY, japanese shows that use the modern moe girlie anime style that most people think of when they think anime, and people still haven't really tired of it - it's just an artistic style that holds up.

(western) Animation companies are far too up their own asses. When audiences say, "this look is stale", they should have changed things up, instead they always seem to double down and sneer at the very people who pay their fucking bills, but I digress.

>>7652880
Most people die to medical malpractice, so yes, we should absolutely get rid of them.

>>7634294 (OP)
Personally, I find these to be pretty subtle differences that ironically make the biggest of differences. On the left their lineart is generally "softer" and even thinner, while right is more a bit more angular and has a mechanical feel to it, as well as also slightly deviating the anime face by trying to be more realistic except keeping the animu eyes.

After reading some of the other replies here, the former tends to favors what looks pretty, at the expense of facial variety and realism (if it works, it works). The latter tries to be more individualistic, maybe giving a character a more defined nose, a square or pointy jawline but still maintaining them having cartoony anime eyes, which clashes with the rest of the face. It ends up looking superficial because of those eyes. Their ethos is: more variety = more gooder, but not necessarily doing it for beauty.

Just to reiterate myself, it's an emphasis of beauty that the West doesn't understand and lacks, regardless of the facial complexity either, considering >>7634468 showcases more realistically proportioned anime faces, but they're balanced out way better. This is likely what faux-anime is trying to emulate, but falls flat on their face doing so by doing what I mentioned earlier. Unironically, I think 3/4s of the faux anime side is done by the same character designer.

>>7634564
>>7634468
>https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2163494
What makes 80s/90s cartoons animated and designed by japanese staff members look distinctly different than the actual anime of their times when they're technically made by the exact same people?

>>7634294 (OP)
I was rewatching the original Avatar series recently and though it's "faux-anime" im genuinely surprised it exists
>Original IP
>based around Asian cultures
>complicated animation and poses based on martial arts and flowing movement
>doesn't have 800 things that could be turned into toys to sell to children

It's the closest show that could be considered anime - I feel that western cartoons are just a thing to sell merchandise, the story and everything else is secondary, the animation on top of that is usually shot-reverse-shot or 3 people talking at a 3/4 angle
It's profit margin cost cutting throughout- whereas anime will cost cut everything so that they can stand strong on the parts that need good animation like a fight scene or an emotional crying scene

>>7634468
What does the Anime discussion look like outside of English and japan. Have English weebs convinced everyone to separate cartoons from japanese cartoons or did the distinction between the two rise organically in other languages?

>>7657047
Yeah I appreciate avatar only after I aged. I remember being surprised Nick had the balls to even have something like that on their block.