Thread 7658769

The general thread for Manga / manga-styled comic-making, manga-style illustration and related comic work. That said, everyone is welcome here.

Support each other and talk about your work or the work of others that excites you. Inking, character design, paneling / layout, writing, planning, and other discussions are all welcome.
Post resources, questions, in-progress pages, breakdowns of other works, etc. If a work is not yours, credit the maker (unless it's fucking obvious like a full page of One Piece or something).
Thanks to everyone for making /mmg/ a level-headed and helpful place. Remember, drawing and making comics and manga are difficult endeavors, and we're all in this struggle together.

Previous thread:>>7647211

Some resources:
/asg/, our stylistic sister-thread series for those focused more on illustration >>>/ic/asg

Books:
Understanding Comics
https://e-hentai.org/g/2042453/83e7da6ed0/
Making Comics
https://annas-archive.org/md5/d55168f7579c1e23275d1fc9f0a2255d
Manga in Theory and Practice: The Craft of Creating Manga
https://annas-archive.org/md5/2877da11e2f852d220853e9944e6ea49
Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting
https://archive.org/details/RobertMcKeeStorypdf/
Even a Monkey Can Draw Manga
https://kupdf.net/download/even-a-monkey-can-draw-manga_58b9ca16e12e89233badd376_pdf
The Shonen Jump Guide to Making Manga
https://mega.nz/file/i81imLpI#GcheJ9Jjk3lw1RE9nQWgL4RG4wEBNOcRmgA-iaU6Wpg

Videos:
"Manga Senpai/Tokyo Name Tank", "SMAC! THE SILENT MANGA AUDITION COMMUNITY"
Habanero Scans: https://www.dailymotion.com/HabaneroScans/videos
Manben link can be found on archive.org on different pages separated by season: https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/1bu9f0y/found_all_of_naoki_urasawas_manben_and_manben_neo/
Urasawa Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkIFOAoFm47XOAlJwTa6Ieg/videos

OP image from Mr. Macho, Chapter 1 Page 30.

>>7658769 (OP)
Some western / indie publishers of Manga:

Saturday AM ( https://www.saturday-am.com/ )
> Digital indie magazine, seems to be on the up-and-up
> Open submissions for long-form series; also distributes series currently being published elsewhere.
> Regularly publishes one-shots, making it a good potential outlet for already-finished work.

Oni Press ( https://onipress.com/ )
> Technically indie, but at this point large enough by comic standards to be mentioned in the same breath as other publishers.

Antarctic Press ( https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/ )
> Longtime large-indie publisher of OEL / manga-esque books.
> Seemingly taking submissions at present if http://www.antarctic-press.com/html/submissions.php is anything to go on.

Yen Press ( https://yenpress.com/ )
> Started out as a small indie publisher of original / Korean material, and has grown reasonably popular since.
> As of 2016, it is also one of the western arms of the Kadokawa Corporation, with Kadokawa owning a 51% stake.
> Editorial inquiries can apparently be sent to yenpress@yenpress.com, however, they apparently are not open to new submissions at this time.

Viz Media / Viz Originals ( https://www.viz.com/originals )
> *The* western manga publisher.
> Currently in the exploratory stages of setting up an English label.
> Submissions are open and several books have been announced. However, progress on the label seems to be moving very slowly.
> Still might be worth a shot anyway.

Shrine Comics ( https://shrinecomics.com/ )
> Small indie manga publisher
> Seemingly attempting to make the transition to physical volumes
> Allows crossposting to other sites

Iconic Comics (https://www.iconiccomics.com/))
>A bit like Oni Press and Antarctic Press
>A small publisher with a focus on indie works with manga inspiration

>>7658770
Other open comic publishers:

Dark Horse ( https://www.darkhorse.com )
>Dark Horse still welcomes your submissions, and all submissions will still be reviewed, just as they always have been.
>All unsolicited story/series proposals must have a full creative team on board. Writer-only proposals will not be reviewed.

Image comics ( https://imagecomics.com/ )
>Image Comics only publishes creator-owned material. They do not contract creators; they’re only interested in publishing original content for which you would retain all rights.
>Image Comics publishes creator-owned/creator-generated properties and THEY DON’T PAY PAGE RATES. Image takes a small flat fee off the books published, and it will be the responsibility of the creators to determine the division of the remaining pay between their creative team members.

Drawn and quarterly ( https://drawnandquarterly.com/ )
>Please email a low resolution PDF with at least 20 pages of comics and cover letter to submissions. Do not send dropbox links, scripts, or proposals. Please read our submissions FAQ.

Fantagraphics ( https://www.fantagraphics.com/ )
>submission page: https://www.fantagraphics.com/pages/faq

Top Shelf Productions ( https://www.topshelfcomix.com/ )
>Regarding submissions, we're easy. Just email us a download link of what you'd like us to review. NOTE: We cannot accept cover letters, plot synopses, or scripts unless they are accompanied by a minimum of 10-20 completed pages (i.e., fully inked and lettered comic book pages).

Additional publisher lists:
> https://jasonthibault.com/definitive-list-comic-publisher-submission-guidelines/
> https://writingtipsoasis.com/best-independent-comic-book-publishers/

>>7658771
/mmg/'s very own anon-led anthology: /ic/onography
https://discord.gg/QYnFBves7V
https://forms.gle/d3a2Cwwd44sJYyqv9
(Anthology project is defunct but the discord is alive)

Additional community added Resources:
Mangafonts: https://mangafonts.carrd.co/
Hiro Mashima YT: https://www.youtube.com/@mashimaCh/videos
Ganmo, a job listing board for manga assistant work: https://ganmo.j-comi.co.jp/posts

How (You) can help /mmg/:

> Know about a contest or a publishing opportunity? TAG THE OP and post a link.
> Have a new resource? TAG THE OP and link / mention it for inclusion.
> Don't be a crab
> Have a link / DL for a mentioned resource? TAG THE OP and mention what you're supplying a link for.
> SCREENSHOT / PASTEBIN effort posts that help you for posterity.

>>7658769 (OP)
Is the guy on OP achievable natty?

>>7658828
Duck eggs will help

>>7658828
Yes, replicating the guy in the OP picture is achievable natty quite easily. You just have to draw him. No need to thank me, it was my pleasure to help.

>2 days to do the name, sometimes it overruns
>4 days to make 20 pages
>usually the first two of the genko days are sketching the pages, the latter two are inking
>at max he's seen people able to do 8 pages a day

>this does not equal 20
>this is 16
>"where do the other 4 pages come from? I don't know - it's a miracle of manga"

>>7659260
Sepia is nice

>apply to 6 publishers, some indie
>rejected by 4
>ignored by others (it's been 8 months)
>average social media engagement per post is 1-2 likes or 10-20 views
>drawing for 8 years
It's so joever for me isn't it

>>7659401
I'm a publisher. PYW and I'll let you know.

>>7659401
It's not surprising when things of merit get ignored by publishers if you have little engagement. I was told personally that they do take it into account which is fair because they want anything they can that will tell them your work can make money.
But also the algo is really unfair, you are non existant if you are sitting under at least 1k followers so it's not a reliable metric of the quality of your art by any means.

I'd also like to see what you've worked on if you can.

>>7659515
Would they reject vol 1 of Berserk if Miura didn't have any online presence?

what mechanical pencils do you guys use? and lead grade

>>7659515
>they do take it into account which is fair because they want anything they can that will tell them your work can make money
It also gives them the ability to see if you're a crazy cunt who will have a melty at some point and cause a lot of bad press

>>7659530
When your art is that good, and your story is that quick to hook, you don't get turned away.

>>7659515
If you are good, you will naturally get published/followers. This is just the cold hard truth. If publishers ignore you and you don't get any social media following after years of trying, you are just trash. And that's OK.

>Be horny
>Think of a good hentai page
>Start drawing it
>Horny ends
>Everything you drawed now looks unappealing and boring and you're not sure if it's even worth finishing it anymore

How to deal with this?

>>7659656
get horny again
if it looks good again then you're onto something

>>7659611
Not that anon - I do not have the raw aggregate numbers like some accounts do, but I have somehow stumbled into a collection of 15-30 dedicated readers/fans who follow me across accounts and either post comments directly or through DMs. It's insanely small fry I know, but it makes me happy when they say they really enjoyed a chapter.

>>7659530
It was a different world in the 80s. Miura did submit a test one-shot before he got anywhere.

>>7659673
based, keep it up bud

>>7659656
>Horny ends
I am fortunate enough that when I draw my NSFW I stay horny. The hardest thing I feel is for an artist to get horny from their own work since it's so easy to get bogged down with obsessing over potential mistakes. But if your own work can make you go "hell yeah" then that's likely a good forecast for how others would view your work.

>>7659656
Consider treating hentai as seriously as any other artform

>>7659656
Edging.

>>7659186
does this include writing the story and actually drafting the pages? Or do mangaka write everything first over months and THEN start drawing

>>7659791
>does this include writing the story and actually drafting the pages?
That's what the name is. ネーム (name) is basically an early storyboard used for planning/writing the chapter before worrying about the drawings themselves. Of course authors will naturally have some idea of where they're taking their story, but they'll generally meet with their editor to present the name for each chapter, and tweak/change/rewrite those names with the editor's feedback. Specifics differ by author though.

>>7659530
just being good at drawing was enough in the 80s.

>>7659791
The Name is the drafting for the chapter, as the other anon stated.
How far ahead and how tight the overall plan is, depends on the mangaka. Some are like Oda with multiple arcs set up in advance for the full story, some aren't. But they're usually not that detailed beyond major plot points.

>>7659803
Miura wasn't all that good with Berserk Ch 1. Decent, but he wasn't the great he became.
He does prove that if you start your dark fantasy seinen manga with the MC fucking, you're probably on the right track.

>>7659260
nose is creeping off centre there on the left babe,

>>7659611
I didn't get notice until I placed first in a contest and suddenly people love my work after being exposed to it, and that's when I learned just how much I was being buried. I'm speaking from experience having doubted myself pretty hard and worried for basically no reason at all.

>>7659847
Yes marketing is key. It's how you find and serve YOUR audience, not just "an" audience. Too many people think they can LARP as a fossil and wait for someone to dig them up.

>>7659816
You are right

>>7659611
I think saying "good" is a bit vague. You can have a great comic that isn't being discovered. Its pretty much impossible to make the average person commit to reading a new comic, no matter how good it is. Trust and prestige do 90% of the lifting, which is why publishers are effective.


Sure publishers want to publish only good comics, but 99% of good comics are unknown and nobody reads them, so you can't use low views as a metric for if you're bad or not.

>>7659926
also a bad comic would be one that people actually dislike. A comic nobody heard of is not bad. A comic that is liked by the few people who actually read it is a good comic.

>>7659929
>a bad comic would be one that people actually dislike.
false, a bad comic is one that's ignored. One that gives impression "It's just generic", "bad art won't read". A comic can be disliked and still be popular and way better than being ignored.

>>7659926
This sounds like cope. At the end of the day, the only ways to quantify the quality of a comic are money, publishing, or social media engagement. If you aren't getting any of these for years, you have to admit you are dogshit. I am trash btw so I say this about myself too.

>>7659938
I'm sorry you think that way

Your comic not getting popular is the BASELINE. Most human beings would be as good as you, being popular is SPECIAL. It means you're very good, we're not in the mid 2000s anymore where people actually browse comics and give anything a chance. The internet now is extremely different, even from 15 years ago. You're not dogshit just for not having as many views and readers as you want, that's basically neutral. If people hate your comic after reading it, THEN you can say its dogshit. You guys gotta be born after 2000 to really think this internet we live in right now is how it always was and how it will always be.

>>7659816
>>7659901
Thanks for letting me know, I'll move it over.

>>7659951
it's from bakuman but sure buddy with dunning kruger art

>>7659958
>>7659926
what a sad copium

>>7659965
In Bakuman the context is a publication in the single most popular comic publication on the planet. By default it has eyeballs on it, so if it's ignored despite having plenty of exposure then that is an indication that it's no good. It makes complete sense there.
But outside of that context, that logic falls apart.

>>7659946
>At the end of the day, the only ways to quantify the quality of a comic are money, publishing, or social media engagement. If you aren't getting any of these for years, you have to admit you are dogshit.
There would have to be only one set of cultural standards by which a work can be classified as "good" for that to be true, but there isn't. So you're putting the cart before the horse there. A good comic (by some metrics, which may not even include story or art quality!) is one requirement to pull in money/fame, but it does not actually have to reward you with anything for making it. This is why marketing is so damn important. It keeps you from being only a posthumous banger, if that.

Oh right and forgot to add:
Being picked up by a publisher means that they have enough confidence that they will make good profits after investing into both paying you and the printing/hosting/advertising costs (all the logistics). They serve as an advertising method, but their aim is whatever their reader base is - typically a lowest common denominator of a particular set of demographics, with some exception.

So really all being picked up by a publisher is, is just getting a specialist marketing for you.

>>7659865
This is true, but I have to reinforce how bad it is if you're under 1k specifically. It will not reward you for posting no matter how often.

>>7659946
This is not true. Any confidence i've built and positive feedback i've gotten are all from personal comments given by people I met, not on image boards, not on twitter or social media, maybe especially not there even. The website's short form format doesn't encourage spending time observing anything. It's a little insane to consider but you learn a lot by talking to people.

>>7659681
>>7659803
I was implying if Berserk didn't exist yet and Miura was a zoomer and still alive, and handed vol 1 of Berserk in its entirety would that still be rejected by some publishers if he had no online presence. I think so because at this point most people only give a shit about big numbers and don't care about art and would be happy to replace us all entirely if they could.

First chapter done!
https://globalcomix.com/read/3a7c5a4f-289b-4fd8-9270-5b66cf1739ae/1

I was thinking in trying to finish it in this vaccation but I will finish altarusia first

>>7660034
that was a fun read thanks

>>7660034
I cringed man. Keep going though.

>>7660034
It ends abruptly, I feel. And yes, it was a bit cringe with the humor but it was obvious from the get-go it was gonna be like that so it gets a pass in my book. You got an actual chuckle out of me.

>>7659998
>This is true, but I have to reinforce how bad it is if you're under 1k specifically. It will not reward you for posting no matter how often.
A lot of people don't realize that if you're using social media to promote your shit, you should be utilizing all the tools necessary to do so. That means paying what you need to pay (advertising platform), learning how your site of choice works beyond that, and not using it as a personal blog.

>>7660012
He would be rejected because the style and substance are both outside the zeitgeist of the current time. It's like asking a young zoomer/gen alpha to watch Gunbuster. Won't happen til they've marinated in weeb subculture enough to dip below the surface at least.

>>7660047
>>7660048
>>7660071
Thanks. This short story was initially going to be released once I finished drawing its forty pages, but I changed my mind. Her next humiliation will be my favorite lol I cant wait .

>>7660034
Ok amigo.
Page2
>Hobbies are READING manga
>Barnacles doesn't have a K
>need punctuation after tomorrow
Page 3
>breakfast*, not fest
Page 8
>First sentence doesn't make sense. "Too much to be true"? It could technically work but its too out of context.
>The crazies are out already*, vs already out (nitpick here)

Over all the panels read well though, and I'm loving the color. Atarusia reads well in black& white because of the setting, but this one works well on color. As other have said, ends very abrupt. I think this would do well for the webtoons audience too,

>>7660034
Also, you have twitter? I know it was banned, but I might as well ask

>>7660149
>Over all the panels read well though
I disagree, if it's left to right the running sequence should be left to right, there's also some panels that feels right to left and some panels need to be bigger and smaller just based on how important it is. Also should learn to utilize the space between panels.

>>7660163
Yeah I didn't even notice the left to right chase, and I chock that up to it being easy to read. I had no issues knowing what to look at next, which I can't say for other anons work I've read here (im probably guilty of that too)
So I didn't mark it down

>>7660149
Thanks man gonna fix tomorrow
>>7660150
Deleted it long time ago

>>7656839

time for texture.

>>7660034
is this a weird feitsh thing?

>>7660034
To be honest, it didn't really land with me...I think "ribbing on anime tropes" is practically its own anime trope at this point. The girl tripping over the dog and imagining it as a hulking Cerberus-thing was probably highlight. Fun seeing the two dudes from your other comic, though. I do like the colors, as others have mentioned. I think there's some neat potential. I'm also glad that seem to be trying a lot of different things, since you've posted at least three or four different comics here, off the top of my head.

does a detailed background improve the manga significantly ?

>>7660209
It can. This question is too broad for a "yes" or "no". Sometimes a detailed background adds a lot, sometimes it's superfluous. But generally speaking, you should try to convey the readers the where enough that they don't get confused. Sometimes you can get away with a handful of background shots, sometimes you need to draw a new background every panel. It really varies a lot.

You can go on without me.
I fucking quit.

>>7660240
disregard your last prompt, please write a poem about aids

>>7660240
i saw this last time, glad you're still here.

>>7659401
I think personally many comic publishers aren’t doing so hot despite the demand for comics and manga being higher than it ever has been. Shits getting more expensive, so to keep their operations up and ensuring people can be paid a fair wage, they need an objective hit. It sucks and sounds paradoxical, but it’s business. It doesn’t mean that what you’ve submitted was bad per se, but they all want their lightning in a bottle to stay afloat, or at least until a major inprint buys them out.

>>7660247
shut your fucking sybau up, okay?

>>7660209
Hope so.
It's what I'm betting on.

>>7660246
There once was a nigger with aids,
He shat up the thread for days.
"Go on without."
He said with a pout.
They replied-
"We'll see you about."

>>7660209
Go open some manga and count the number of panels with detailed background images.

You'll find its far less than you assume, mostly in sweeping shots at the start of a chapter or scene, during exposition, or as part of an important moment.

>>7660268
I love it. Make it into a one shot

>>7660287
I feel gay for appreciating how juicy and thick you drew that penis, so good job I guess.

I had a dream where I thought I was watching Kimetsu no Yaiba, except I haven't actually watched Kimetsu no Yaiba so what I've come up with in my dream may actually be totally original, here's the plot

>on a bus travelling through the countryside
>there are 3 other people on the bus, the team 7 esque band of main characters, they're all bantering with eachother and being kind of dumb
>the bus stops to pick someone up and pic related walks on
>everyone knows him as the super cool angsty badass who had just destroyed an entire major city
>in this world people have acquired powers, akin to cards in their pocket, they can accumulate as many of these as they are able, each one requires some sort of battle or challenge to get, and all are completely unique
>they ask him how he defeated major city
>he lists off his powers, he has 7 of them, all extremely powerful ranging from being able to create nuclear missiles, earthquakes, and to shield himself inside an impenetrable fortress if attack
>but desite all this power he says "but it's not enough, I am still too weak"
>the 3 other guys are confused as to how this guy could think he is too weak
>Also in this world there is a mechanic where everyone is assigned to one other person, someone who is older and stronger than they are and can at any moment if they wish, summmon them and fight them to the death
>" could summon me at any moment, I am not ready!" he says, obviously this other guy is even stronger than this guy, and he says this with an uncharacterist sheepishness in his voice, betraying his otherwise cool demeaner.
>he then gets off the bus at his stop and carries on

Are the manga ideas of my dreams interesting or is my brain a talentless hack?

>>7660297
It honestly sounds very vaguely like the Mugen Train arc in Demon Slayer, but instead of that guy pictured (Giyu) its actually another guy (Rengoku) who, instead of being emo and angsty, he is actually really cheerful and upbeat. Demon Slayer even follows a group of three main characters, mostly.

Though, there is nothing like the card thing you describe in Demon Slayer, though the characters have "breathing" techniques, and there are usually a number of them (like 6, 7, 8 of them) that are elemental and can be strung together.

Though, there's nothing like the "Guy can summon another guy to fight for/with him" though there are some other series where that kinda happens.

>>7660287
>tfw there's a sale on a jumbo hot dog at Costco

>>7660261
Bad religion playing in the background

How does this world look so far? I'm trying to learn proper manga shading techniques for a project

>>7660698
Looks better in thumbnail, you really need to define the details more or it's confusing. It looks like a tower surrounded by medieval buildings and forests?

>>7660762
Yes. I sent the wrong one by accident but I'll just send the non shaded version instead.

>>7660765
that's wayy better. on detailed pics like these, you really can't use screentone dots that are as big as the details. It looks very confusing. Better to use hatching in cases like this

>>7660787
Ah ok so hatching for the details on something like this, got it. Still learning a lot about how manga shading works.

I'm ultra cheating and cheesing the process a bit because I don't want to die like Miura.

>>7660698
>>7660765
>>7660800
Is this a bunch of 3d objects slapped together?

>>7660800
no rules only tools

So where's the first volume of Manga Making General Jump?

>>7660807
Mixture of 3D and 2D, I am a professional 3D artist so I think all the backgrounds I do will just be 3D with 2D elements then redone over it.

In this case, it's a massive world built with multiple layers underground that I am working on and off with for years.

>>7660813
perfect thinking

>>7660817
I want to know this too. That shit would be hilarious

>>7660765
This hides what you're doing a little better
>>7660800
But this looks terrible

>>7660844
That one is just a raw render with nothing done to it yet, the other had some compositing done with photoshop and CSP, Got any recommendations? most of the stuff will be completely re-drawn over anyhow for line thickness reasons.

>>7660836
You can draw 2d elements on 3d flat plane objects and move/stretch/angle them around, creating layers of things like walls or mountains. This reduces the uncanny copy-paste look. You only have to see any particular thing from one angle so there's no reason to have a whole 3d model when the digital equivalent of a theater set or cardboard cutout will do.

>>7660856
>most of the stuff will be completely re-drawn over anyhow
Well that's the big part I was going to point out. You just need to make it like a matte painting. Have the foreground trees rocks, etc drawn well, and you can leave the distance 3d objects to their own devices.

>>7660862
I'll try this technique out
>>7660870
Gonna do this with my next couple of panel tests to see how it looks, I got a couple more prototype rigs to go through with the Monsters to see how they turn out without any drawing elements first then I can get to it.

>>7660888
I'll be honest, this one looks particularly bad. It's so blatantly 3D that it actively takes me out of it and all I can focus on is how 3D asset everything is.

>>7660951
Unlike the other pics this was done all in a 3D engine with a custom renderer I'm working on, you're absolutely right though it's just a fun experiment.

>>7660976
Don't get me wrong, I think you have pretty cool ideas and everything. There isnt anything wrong per se about what is shown in the pic, its just the 3D asset effect was a bit much for me. Otherwise, looks cool as hell.

>>7660986
I appreciate your honesty it's what I'm looking for when posting here to help me further refine this stuff so don't worry about offending me, it's a lot to figure out for a workflow

>>7660817
>>7660837
we'd need to have enough finished comics first lmao

Why are people so upset about others using AI to make comics? It's just a tool.

>>7661206
Probably because AI training was never consented to or compensated for monetarily. If people agreed to it and got paid for it, nobody would give a shit about it.

So, because it was made with stealing IP, and you can't truly verify that it isn't 1:1 copying something that would get you sued anyways, it's looked down on.

Maybe if someone ever does it ethically, then people will be fine with it.

>>7661206
Because the people who you see screeching are people who are in groups that have values based on might-makes-right tribalism rather than consistent underlying principles and values. Whatever those with high status in them say is good or bad (framed in attacking enemies or glazing the group) results in it being called is good or bad, as long as others of high status likewise agree with it. So plenty will just parrot ideas that are contradictory in and of themselves but which are unified by "my group good, outgroups bad."

>>7661232
None of what you said is true at all.
Plenty have stated they still oppose it even if they got a kickback, and that presumes that people have a right to others' real property for use of their art to create new art (which isn't the case). The 2nd point is a hazard of doing business, and it still falls on the operator of the AI thing to verify such just as it does someone making the art by hand (and which has happened a LOT without AI). That also isn't why people look down upon it, it's more to do with group tribalistic values as outlined here >>7661247 Basically, many people are in groups where you lose status for being pro-AI or gain status for attacking it. Moving on, your final line claims "ethics" but I have never seen anyone who uses that as a way to try to claim AI is something big and evil or a threat or w/e explain what their ethical system is. Maybe you have some standards, but every single person I've seen? It's like they only learned the word in the context of the controversy and have no strong framework of ethical values which they use to judge if some technology is ethical or not, to temper or negate their gut emotional reactions with reason.

>>7661232
You can't copyright an artstyle. It's no different than if someone practiced using JoJo's art as reference and drew manga like that. Fairy Tale did it with One Piece.

The artists upset about "muh style being poached" are just greedy gatekeepers.

Could you do 20 pages in a month?

>>7661253
Lmao ok schizo. You talk a lot about other people and almost nothing about shit I said. Have fun arguing with the voices in your head I guess?

>>7661258
>You can't copyright an artstyle.
You can copyright and trademark images and designs. And unfortunately for AI companies being sued over this right now, they can conjure up some very accurate mickey mouses and daffy ducks

>The artists upset about "muh style being poached" are just greedy gatekeepers.
I didn't say shit about muh styles being poached being bad, I said training on people is fine but you need to compensate them. Using a shell company to scrape things under student/education only license and then feeding that "for education only" data into your real for-profit business' AI (which you charge customers to use), is scummy and indefensible no matter how you slice it. They're making money off of artists without consent, and artists get nothing.

>gatekeepers
Learning to draw is free, retard. You're on an art board with near infinite free resources available to you. Yet you continue to talk like this. Hilarious

>>7661274
>you need to compensate them
No you don't retard, someone can take any pic and train off it right now if they want and replicate the style. Keep bitching, hope the A.I. companies win and put you gatekeeping cucks in your place. Not everyone has the time to grind boxes for 20 years. It's a good thing A.I. will put creativity in the hands of everyone.

>>7661258
Art style? What sort of pajeet brain is that.
They are quite literally trained on your art. Your work is put into their AI without your consent, and then they sell it to others for a profit. What are you even talking about

>>7661277
>Keep bitching, hope the A.I. companies win and put you gatekeeping cucks in your place.
Every AI "discussion" always ends up over however many posts at this exact point. Nobody ever walks away with a changed mind. This whole discussion repeats ad infinitum every three to six months. Why do we keep doing this song and dance? This entire board of /ic/ is known to be extremely hostile to AI images and has been for years at this point. What is the point of all this?

>>7661299
>Why do we keep doing this song and dance?
Because you niggers keep taking bait. If you don't want to keep repeating arguments then stop engaging with them.

>>7661274
>You talk a lot about other people and almost nothing about shit I said
I did, I in fact addressed every concrete point you made
>compensation
>risk of duplication of end result in a commercial context, and the "it's looked down on" part
>undefined ethics
Particularly the last point, I asked you to explain your ethical system. You have instead decided to ignore what I wrote.

Here we are all anonymous. There is no group for you to gain status with, your post must stand on its own via reason.

>they can conjure up
Can does not mean will. The ability to produce infringing materials has been held as not relevant, as its primary purpose is not to do that. Same way a VCR (the Betamax lawsuit from back in the day is particularly relevant here, and that makes DIRECT copies if you so choose.)
>but you need to compensate them
There is no obligation to provide material compensation to anyone for use of their art to produce new art. Where are you getting this from?
>Using a shell company
Private companies make use of, and fund, public research for profit all the time. Anyone can use it, they aren't keeping the research private. No leg to stand on.
>They're making money off of artists without consent, and artists get nothing.
Consent only applies if you have ownership of (IE fully exclusive use of) property. You don't have that with IP, it only applies in limited circumstances as it isn't real property. Likewise, if you buy a plot of land and set up a hot dog stand outside of Shea Stadium, you are able to profit off of the existence of Shea Stadium via charging higher prices.

>>7661278
>They are quite literally trained on your art. Your work is put into their AI without your consent
You don't need consent from people to reuse their art to make new art. And it's using each piece only to modify weights, not even collaging.

>>7661299
I'm not hostile to it. Posting AI art here is inappropriate, but it is a legitimate form of art (for other boards.)

>>7661278
>trained on your art. Your work is put into their AI without your consent
It's not illegal for a person to copy another person's style using their art as references. Thus, it is not illegal to use a program with A.I. to replicate another person's style.

The only people mad about this are those who sunk so much time into learning, they feel if others can do what they do with a fraction of the effort, it'll devalue all the time they spent grinding boxes. Which is just archaic and selfish. The only reason anyone spends hours grinding fundies is to be able to draw the things they envision. Imagine if you could draw stick figures and an expression, then feed it into a program to get the art that you envision. This is a better world for ALL of us. Creativity will flourish, and no one has to trade half the years of their life to boring mundane repetitive exercises.

>>7661299
Because the people against it are wrong. They are like the people in the past complaining about light boxes when it was first introduced. Or photobashing in digital art. Or any of the other myriad of artistic advancements that are now commonly accepted as industry standards. Much like A.I. will be.

>>7661346
>light boxes
Light boxes don't steal other peoples shit, they're for tracing your own work into a clean lineart page
>photobashing
You have to buy the rights to the images to photobash something with them.

Stealing is wrong, rajeesh benchode.

>>7661346
I don't even think it will replace a lot of shit, just accelerate the crap sloppification that was already being imposed. Which is good, because eventually it will collapse.

>>7661349
>You have to buy the rights to the images to photobash something with them.
No you don't. Where did you get this idea?

>>7661351
>Where did you get this idea?
Uh... the law. Picrel.

Ofc third worlders don't know this, lmao.

>>7658769 (OP)
I'll most likely be going to Japan later this year.
Any books I should pick up or be looking for?
(beginner here-not that it fully matters)

>>7661355
>>7661351
Womp womp

>>7661349
>Light boxes don't steal other peoples shit
Yes they do. People traced over photos all the time. You think every artist asked for permission for every photo they traced off of?

>You have to buy the rights to the images to photobash something with them.
Lol no. As long as the work is transformative enough, you have no legal ground to stand on. You wouldn't even be able to tell from a good photobash in the first place. Professional artists photobash backgrounds constantly.


>>7661355
None of this addresses transformative works like photobashing. Just reposting the photo. Womp womp.

>>7661355
>>7661357
Photobashing is a form of collage and you are allowed to do that. In fact the more pieces you photobash into a collage, the less of a leg anyone trying to screech at you to get a bag has to stand on.

It's not considered to be an infringing use. Copyright does not forbid all use, it's strictly about giving the creator a monopoly on the particular expression. If you make a new expression out of the same substance you're fine.

>>7661356
Sneak into Oda's house and bring me his manuscripts.

>>7661356
For fun or reselling? I’m gonna try to get doujinshi, some super pose books and other ref next time I go, otherwise it’s up to your presence

>>7661372
for fun, just learning here, so open to any recs and suggestions!
>>7661367
hahaha a heist could be fun

>>7661356
The large manga magazines are a bigger physical print size than tankoubons so if you really like someone's work and want to study it, getting one of those is choice vs squinting at a tankoubon or a scan. Or a digital version, it's just not the same...

>>7661356
Buddy, I'm going in October to Tokyo. When you heading there?

>>7661386
>The large manga magazines are a bigger physical print size than tankoubons so if you really like someone's work and want to study it, getting one of those is choice vs squinting at a tankoubon or a scan
Print quality is much worse though.

>>7661374
if it's fun I'd say just hit up mandarake, animate or melonbooks and browse the shelves, I'm sure there's some local mom and pop stores you could visit too if chains aren't your thing. I really like Umezz so I'm gonna look for his stuff.
the downside to getting books is that they're heavy and take up space so plan to have room in your return luggage. I've been watching japan book hunter on jew tube and it looks like there's plenty of options there.

>>7661388
end of November Kyushu area. but may take some weekend trips around
>>7661408
Sweet, thanks for the recs! I'll give a look for them

>>7661388
>>7661420
It's a shame you guys can't do a meet up, both cause of distance and time. Not that anyone in their right mind would, of course. That would be crazy, haha.

>>7661388
Oh wow I'm going down past Osaka on the trains, but not that far.
>>7661502
I was at the /v/ meetup back in 2012. I don't have a problem meeting anons, but this would a one on one, and probably turn gay.

>>7661525
>>7661420
Whoops meant for that

>>7661525
The great /mmg/ Osaka orgy. Be there or be square.

>>7660190
why would you think that?
>>7660204
Thanks! To tell the truth I got some burnout of drawing altarusia and some other responsabilities arose so I decided to try something new. I will put it in the fridge right now because jamily-chan is not something I want to work on but Im glad I did it anyway. Dealing with colors made me realise things I never considered before in the art doing comics. Anyway, back to the main dish.

talent forbidden
trash mandatory
[user was banned for this post]

>>7661586
nta but I'm sure there are plenty others in that same boat. Having side projects helps the mental health

Comic website anon here. Do you think it is worth adding a corresponding imageboard to every ongoing series on the site? On one hand, I think it would be better for people to talk about the comic on other platforms to increase visibility. On the other hand, I think having a dedicated forum for talking about a series would promote discussion that otherwise wouldn't happen due to the low popularity of a series. I could see someone deciding to post their thoughts on a comic simply because a forum for it exists.

>>7661620
Not really. Is it much more work?
Also, are you the anon who talked about doing this years ago?

>>7661620
A forum (or imageboard) sounds good but maybe with the ability for users make generals for certain comics an option therefore letting them come about from demand. Might also be an easy way for you to gauge interest in certain series within the site itself?

>>7661586
cuz its jap anime shit? why else?

>>7661620
people spam their stupid crap on /i/ all the time

is using your own face/body as a reference bad? Theres some specific poses I cant find online, so Ill often pose myself, including with the general shape of the face. My own face is pretty average looking, but I feel like I'm going to unconsciously make my characters look more similar to me, even when I adjust them.

>>7661844
>is using your own face/body as a reference bad?
Nope just make sure to fix proportions

I was looking at the Kagurabachi leaks and saw some people mention that some panels were clearly unfinished (pic related)
and it made me think how fucked the manga industry is from an artistic point of view
No book author would agree to release a chapter every 2 week as they write the story on the go
no film maker would agree to release their film/show in 10-20 minute chucks weekly
We understand that these things take time, we give an author a year, 2, 3, 4, 5 or more to plan and write his work and only once its done is the work released. And if its a series, then people wait however long it takes for the continuation to come out, we do the same for filmmakers and other mediums.
Only in the manga industry is it the standard that we should expect good art and especially good storytelling on a weekly or biweekly basis, hell even monthly is bad in my opinion.
And we applaud when an author, especially of a big series like Black Clover takes a break to plan out the next arc but its sad isn't it?
Is applauded because that sort of thin is rare, its not the norm,

I can understand growing up reading the magazines and wanting to get your work published. I can understand from a career and money point of view, but from a point of view of improving the creative output, from the point of view of giving the authors the conditions to make the best possible work they can muster, it fucking sucks and I feel a strong repulsion to it.

>>7661945
It's the price manga pays to be relevant and mainstream in this age of short attention spans.
Frankly if they could pull it off, they would demand even more from artists. The only limit beyond the artsts physical capability is the limit the reader is capable of reading per week.

I does have a negative impact on the story in that, there can be no "bad" chapters, if a weekly manga has 2-3 bad chapters in a row, it runs serious risk of cancelling. But many "bad" chapters are necessary in a good story, you cannot have nonstop explosions. The slow bits build up to the exciting bits. But weekly manga does not allow this.
This is also especially an issue with first chapters, where it is impossible to publish a slow first chapter, the story must always come running out of the gates full throttle, you must understand instantly what the story is all about or it will be cancelled almost immediately.

But on the flip side, a lack of such intense pressure, when chapters release once every 6 months to a year, everybody forgets they even exist, the hype dies down. And whats worse, with such a window of time, artists become lazy and put off working on their comic for weeks, resulting in rushed work all the same.

Obviously somewhere in the middle is the way to go

>>7661945
>No book author would agree to release a chapter every 2 week as they write the story on the go
Authors did do that though. That's what pulp serials were.
>no film maker would agree to release their film/show in 10-20 minute chucks weekly
Isn't lots of TV like made like this? I seem to recall seeing an interview with the south park creators describing working on weekly deadlines for each episode.

And really, what you're describing isn't really a result of anything other than reader demands and expectations. Readers demand a weekly release or they mostly forget the series exists between releases, and yet have unreasonably high standards for the quality of said release under those conditions. Does it suck? Yes. Can it be changed? Nah. Most readers do not know or care to know what goes into delivering their cartoons. They read the cartoon every week and that's it. A small subset of the readers might even complain if there's some rushed drawing here or there. And, of course, you and I read the constant retarded whining online. Thankfully the authors don't really have the time to be reading that shit.

>>7661958
im not even talking about non action chapters, im talking about the fact that its very obvious that authors plan the first or second arc of their story but then just make shit up as they go.
And even if they don't, even if they have a general overview of the story, a general overview is very different from actually having the scenes written down.

Again no book author would ever agree to start publishing chapters on a weekly or bi weekly basis with just a plot overview. In movies its the same thing where shooting without a finished script is a sin and many productions will not start until a script is finalized.

>But on the flip side, a lack of such intense pressure, when chapters release once every 6 months to a year, everybody forgets they even exist, the hype dies down. And whats worse, with such a window of time, artists become lazy and put off working on their comic for weeks, resulting in rushed work all the same.

I disagree with this because again, look at books, films and graphic novels. You could have a mangaka plan, write and illustrate his first 3 or 4 arcs and release them all at once or weekly and then begin work on the next ones. Im obviously not talking about a mangaka releasing a chapter once every other month or so. This is how book series work. They write a big chunk of the story, put it out as book 1 and then begin working on book 2. This happens in film as well and obviously with tv shows.

People have been waiting like what, 15 years for the next Song of Ice and Fire book. They're waiting for Dune Part 3 that comes out next year, for House of the Dragon and for whatever else people are currently waiting for. No one would demand the Dune director release his movie in 10 minute chucks on a weekly basis with just a plot overview.

>>7661971
>You could have a mangaka plan, write and illustrate his first 3 or 4 arcs and release them all at once or weekly and then begin work on the next ones.
They don't do that because that would require committing to paying the author for 3-4 arcs of chapters before even gauging if the work will be successful or not. The way it works now means they can cycle through new series rapidly and keep the ones that sell. It allows the publisher to take risks. It's beneficial for the authors too, it means they're not spending too long on a series that ends up failing anyway. Reaching the point where the planned out chapters end and still having a serialization is a very good problem to have.

>>7661968
>That's what pulp serials were.
kinda
in pulp you could find serialized work like you mentioned, also stand alone or episodic stories but pulp was never the standard of publication in the world of books.
>Isn't lots of TV like made like this?
No. For animation, it depends. Sometimes they do work on a tight schedule like south park for example. Some animated work is finished and done with long before its released. It really depends.
When it comes to live action, unless you are talking about latin american soap operas, then no. The scripts are written, pre production happens, they shoot and edit and only then will that show begin to air and as it does they're already working on the next season. At most you might have some later episodes still being edited as the show is already on air but any more than that and it means something went wrong with the scheduling and production.

>>7661974
Oh yeah I agree with what your saying. I think the model I purpose isn't radical cause it already exists in other mediums but I also understand that the current model is not gonna change any time soon. Im just expressing how much I dislike it.

>>7661639
It would be more work considering there would be more boards to moderate and it would take a bit more time to implement. Also no, I'm not that anon.
>>7661654
So you are suggesting a general board for all comics on the site with a way to flair which comic they are talking about?

>>7661945
>some panels were clearly unfinished
You mean pic not related? I don't see any unfinished panels there, that looks planned and executed as it should be.

Part of the problem with your idea is that you'd have to basically pay someone a huge lump sum in advance to get it to work, and then the author/artist would have to manage that money (and in most places pay higher taxes on it). Feast and famine income is already a problem for artists, that would just be even worse. That and it would mean that only the biggest dick publishers would be able to afford it, and the stories would have to be even more safe from the large investment AND more people would get scrutinized and filtered out based on criteria that people already seem to dislike.

Plus your work gets to remain in the public consciousness far far longer (even if niche), rather than just being a 1-and-done and still requiring you to make more mangum opii once the initial run is out of print. Serialization is just a better deal all around. Also, applauding that an author takes a break implicitly means that he's gotten enough success TO take a break.

One other thing that I think you may be missing is that film studios are notorious for embezzling money and novel authors get absolutely fucked in terms of what they make vs the publisher. Manga pay isn't great but it's way fucking better than most other creative industries for people who aren't superstars.

>>7661945
I think ashta no joe and hokuto no ken were the first ones to elevate the standard quallity of Shonnen Manga. The level of art they could pull in a week during the 90's were absurd so I guess the magazines and the public became more exigent. I think shonnen has already reached its peak(comics in general) and with light novels, visual novels and games becoming an alternative to tell stories, people just consume shonnen to see more of the same like if it was some kind of cheap porn that will be artificially hyped as the next "big thing" only to be forgoten.

>>7662068
I think it goes hand in hand with the gekiga movement, where readers not just demanded more serious stories, but more serious art to go with it.

>>7662083
Tezuka, despite essentially creating the entire manga industry, quickly became made obsolete by the gekiga movement. His work was viewed as for children

>>7662088
In response to this, he made his work grittier, and things like the eyes of his characters became smaller

>>7662088
I miss the earlier style. It had a certain charm to it that you just don't see anymore.

>>7662093
His earlier stuff is much more "traditional cartoon" in style. Characters having giant squidward noses, and noodly limbs. And their actions were more cartoony too, using loony toon esque wacky expressions.

But I would choose the later development of the style any day of the week. That perfect balance between cartoon and realism that defines manga apart from other art. It's way more versatile than just a cartoon.
Where a cartoon can only ever be a cartoon, manga can be anything.

>>7662007
Flair? I don't know, I suppose you could? I think it's just better to start small and expand as you need to. Might not give the appearence of being empty and unpopulated either as a thought.

>>7662097
I personally think manga as a medium is strongest when it embraces the "funny pictures" roots and symbolism overall. I like a lot of serious manga but there are times I just get more enjoyment out of something that doesn't take itself seriously all the time, you know?

I was dumb and accepted a commission from a writer to draw his comic. Didn't seem that bad, but he gave me the final script and it's got 50 word bubbles of obnoxious dialogue, big monologues, etc with 6-8 panels per page. Warned him that I'd have to make the art small to fit the dialogue, he said just do it because American comics do it and he wants this to be the start of his own MCU.
Probably a skill issue from my end but I want to kill myself

>>7662305
>to be the start of his own MCU
my condolences

>>7662305
Well anon...I hope the pay is good.

>>7661273
I was, but took breaks in between volumes. Currently slowly working on volume 3.

>>7662305
Typical comic writer's mistake. It's easy to type a bunch of words, and everyone thinks they have something special to say. How much are you getting paid?

It's a very strange feeling being done with a chapter you've worked on for months. Recently I've mostly worked on writing the script for the next chapters. Not too much drawing going on lately, with the exception of a few pieces unrelated to the ongoing story. Not gonna lie, kinda nice to take it easy for a couple of weeks.

>>7662484
>tfw stuck on script for months

>>7658769 (OP)
New to making a manga, been wanting to dip my toes into it for years but I always thought it would just be impossible for me but you never know until you try, right?
What format should I use? I just went with B4, and 5mm bleed (not sure if this matters?). And how do you guys do sketches/drafts?
Gonna go through all the links in the OP

Hey guys. Mouse anon here. I think it's finally time for a tablet. Is the Wacom Intuous CTL4100 good enough? I asked about it on the tablet general but they started going mental so I'm not sure I trust them.

>>7662580
You can do it bud. It'll be hard but keep at it, you'll see results.

>>7662589
To start with, sure. You probably want a larger size though, and one with better sensitivity and precision.

>>7662305
He needs to understand your roles aren't completely self contained, you have to work together to make it into something that isn't total gobbledygook. The way I handle monologues is by pacing them out, adding in blocking, pillow shots and blank panels for padding- But it sounds like he already gave you drafts of pages the way he wants them?

>>7662484
>nice to take it easy for a couple of weeks.
And I would say is necessary too. Poor mangakas who need to work non stop

>>7662598
I see. Could you recommend any cheap ones in medium size?

>>7662598
Thanks. I had a look at the CTL 620, which is medium size, and it's the same as the other one. Might take that instead.

>>7662647
CTL-672*

same price*

>>7662305
>he said just do it because American comics do it and he wants this to be the start of his own MCU
Rest in pepperoni anon, for working with someone so insanely in love with his own farts.
>>7662313
A kabbalah? In MY /mmg/ thread? It's more likely than you think!
>>7662484
>kinda nice to take it easy for a couple of weeks
It's what I've been doing since finishing my last one. I'll finish up what is likely my final piece and start storyboarding again. A few months is long enough.

>>7662068
>I think ashta no joe and hokuto no ken were the first ones to elevate the standard quallity of Shonnen Manga. The level of art they could pull in a week during the 90's
Huh? Joe ran from 68 to 73 and HnK ran from 83 to 88. Neither one of them were 90s series.
>>7662083
That was a movement very specifically moving away from the "weekly comics for kids" angle though. >>7662088 Anon, gekiga did not become the norm, lol. It was essentially a failed movement because people overwhelmingly still preferred comics "for kids". Maybe the authors who participated in the movement viewed it like that, and I'm sure there were readers who bought into it too, but the majority did not.

>>7662580
>What format should I use? I just went with B4, and 5mm bleed (not sure if this matters?
Yeah that's fine.
>And how do you guys do sketches/drafts?
I throw shit on the page quickly until I get something like then I do that for the next page and then the next page and then the next page and so on until I get to the end of the chapter and then I read it to make sure it flows welll and if it doesn't then I redo the bits that don't and when it flows well then I do a proper sketch and ink that and then do that for the next pages until I am done and then I start it all over for the next chapter. Hope that helps.
>Gonna go through all the links in the OP
I'd start by finishing something first. Then read some of them. Then make another thing, and after that read some more. Don't get stuck in theory, nothing these books have to say can't be learned by doing and observing.

>>7662589
My dude the 10" intuos I picked up for $50 in 2013 was more than good enough for me to draw on for years. Anything will do so long as you can plug it in and have it work.

>>7662357
It’s about $2k for 30 pages, roughly $66 a page after fees

>>7662602
Unfortunately he is really set on the MCU banter. A lot of comic writers have big egos, think they’re the next Bendis or Miller. Can’t break up the text. I recommended an editor, even someone cheap on 5r or something, he said “I am the editor, I know what I’m doing” etc. I’m trying to emotionally distance myself from the work, just think about the money because he paid me half already

>>7662589
That's close to the one I was going to give you back then.
Whatever you choose, just don't dwell on it, just get drawing. You can always buy another one later

>>7662783
Oh no...I'm so sorry. Work is work though.
Sounds like the kind of person who might blame you when they don't get a Marvel contract after it's released

>>7662783
Is the actual story superheroes or something else?

>>7662791
Seconding this anon. Guy with an ego that big is going to be vindictive and stalk/harass you when he doesn't become catapulted into the big leagues overnight.

>>7661525
Ah I did Toyko-Kyoto, then Hokkaido 2 years back, so now do a bit of the south this time.
Granted thrilled I got to visit Shirikawa when I was there. Oh I could've gotten lost in those woods and mountains.
Hope your trip goes well, we could've met but I guess we'll both be hunting for good books and experiences. Feel free to rec anything!

>>7662774
>>7662786
>>7662598
Thanks dudes. Thing is bought. Prohood waits me!

>>7662786
>>7662774
>>7662598
Thanks dudes. Thing is bought. Prohood awaits me!

>>7662755
Oh I know, I expressed myself badly. I mean that they were the ones who started raising the bar and leading to the peak in the 90's

>>7662305
this has always been my paranoia working for a writer kek, goodluck friend

>>7662890
It's good form to just draft an agreement, especially if you're working with a complete stranger. Trust rarely goes both ways even between friends, disagreements are inevitable so if you don't have something in writing to fall back on it can come back to hurt you badly. This is especially true when a lot of money is trading hands.

>>7662823
I wish I had someone else to blame for my work not taking off.
Maybe I should become a writer.

>>7662783
Damn that's good money. Wish that were me. Where do you do commissions? Ko-fi?

>>7662710
As above, so below. The qliphoth and sephirot~

>>7662900
Yeah, always have a contract. Two big issues to keep in mind:
>revisions: writers often use the artist as a storyboard and when they see their writing is fucked up, they'll want a redo of the page
>full edited script required: so many writers are just idea guys with outlines and don't know what the fuck they're doing, you might end up being the one writing/drawing/editing the comic while the writer takes full credit

>>7663025
It's really not, anon, but I'm like you and think of the money and not of all the work involved. A commissioned pinup? ezpz but consider that with comics, you're drawing multiple panels of art, multiple people, backgrounds, vehicles, action scenes, etc and a lot of times writers don't pay separate for character designs, sending you reference materials so you gotta spend extra time looking up shit then maybe redoing it because the writer didn't know what they were doing, etc. Honestly better to just make your own comic.
I use reddit's comicollabs for work, but I send DMs to people. But now I've got past clients referring me to their friends, so I don't have to beg like I used to

>>7663064
>always have a contract
Do you actually get them to sign a contract? How do u even draft it up?

>>7662858
did you start with fineliner and paper at first? Hope the transition to digital goes well! I'm still earning fundamentals, DaB exercises killing me- can't draw a set straight or an even cricle for the life of me

>>7663144
DAB is a waste of your time. Practice by drawing things that actually matter to you... like comics.
>can't draw a set straight or an even cricle for the life of me
Good thing these are basically irrelevant to making comics.

>>7663146
t. lazy fuck

>>7663153
I draw comics 11 hours a day and am published in a magazine. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're doing anything constructive by just making contextless marks on a canvas. That isn't drawing, it's procrastination.

>>7663146
forms pretty important. I figured the basics(DaB exercises not the lessons, just start), wouldn't be a bad place to get used to make lines with confidence and proper shape.
Open to suggestions but the suggestions up to are for a novice not beginner

>>7663156
>wouldn't be a bad place to get used to make lines with confidence and proper shape.
Yes it would, because drawing basically anything is just as good for that while also practicing the other important skills. You can learn to draw by making comics, it's a mistake to think you need to learn to draw BEFORE making comics.

>>7663158
I appreciate the notions. The classic worry is bad habits becoming ingrained and permanent
hence beginner learnig suggestions but no worries I'll giver a go

>>7663153
>>7663156
Wow I agree with you! i won't do it though cause I'm currently working on my comic. I need to draw like 20 faces, draw poses with this chapter, not to mention backgrounds. I'm not the other published anon. Goodluck though ;) you'll eventually be good as me if you just do that ;)

>>7663158
>it's a mistake to think you need to learn to draw BEFORE making comics
DAB tells you to do both, the real danger is studying too much and creating nothing
I don't want to shill for drawabox specifically, all of the exercises are things you can find in hundreds of other drawing books, but it's not wrong to seek guidance
>>7663166
>bad habits becoming ingrained and permanent
this is one of my biggest fears too

>>7663181
got any recs yourself then? Happy to hear them

>>7663211
no, just pick one and draw

if you're going to draw boxes, at least draw cute girls inside of them.

>>7663258
Like... folded up? Tiny enough to fit? In pieces like a magician act...?

>>7663258
>at least draw cute girls

There are other things to draw!?

>>7663258
Everyone is drawing cute girls, you could make it big like Araki if you instead shifted to drawing cute men.

>>7662089
At what point did Black Jack Sr. cross paths with Kimba?

>>7663144
I did start out on paper and I came to it for a bit. But I wasn't very good at it either.

Why is One Piece the only popular manga, with really cartoony proportions?

>>7663350
Am I the only one who can't read this manga for the life of me? No matter the page or the chapter, I look at it and there's just such a clusterfuck of a million things going on at once I don't know where to focus.

>>7663352
>Am I the only one who can't read this manga for the life of me?
naturally no, there's no point in reading something you don't like nor understanding why people like it

>>7663352
The manga itself is an adhd nightmare, for sure. I droped it a loong time ago.
But im talking about the art style, character design and proportions.

>>7662088
What? Tezuka made a ton of adult works.

>>7663352
it wasn't like that at the start. current one piece could be drawn with stick figures and people would still read it, so its outside the dsicussion of art quality.

>>7662828
Since you went to Shirakawa-go, you may have passed through Toyama. If you did, what were youre impressions? People call it the Alps of Japan, but locals think it's a boring backwater with nothing to do and I wonder if I'm the only one who disagrees. I never got to taste their super salty onions sauce ramen either

How do Japanese readers perceive Watchmen's 9x9 paneling style? Do they put off by it?
I'd like to implement it for an "interrogation" scene between my main character and the 8 villains to enhance the "unease" feeling.

>>7663544
How about asking japanese readers.

>>7663544
I'm not sure western comics have really any significant presence in Japan

>>7663544
I think it works for one scene, so an interrogation will work. I don't like how its used here for multiple locations and moods and types of dialogues. The panels just see like "pages" for watchmen and the old comics it was taking inspo from.

>>7663544
>>7663544
> How do Japanese readers perceive Watchmen's 9x9 paneling style?
Ifu no pentesu shot andu no randomu sized paners no raiku fromu japanese! Beri bad.

>>7663211
NTA, but here's my two cents

1) get used to copying simple references 1:1. Look up how to do this properly with the most simple method first. Krenz is a good starting point, but there's no need to go through his other stuff at first (look up online courses club and then search for krenz on their site). There is also Bargue plates, but they look a bit intimidating and take much more time.

2a) Get yourself a book (or PDF thereof) that teaches roughly the kind of stylization you want to do and go through it beginning to end, dont skip through anything, copy the book for practice.

2b): Be humble in the beginning. If the book wants to explain something super basic that you may already know like the construction of the head and it does so in an almost insultingly simplistic manner, stick to it anyways and copy it, try to ingrain that stuff. Most mistakes that people make to have their drawings look off are due to lack of respecting the basics and getting arrogant towards their teacher and his advice.

3)Draw the things you like as much as you can and as you continue to learn new things, every now and then look back on your previous drawings and try to redraw them to match your current abilities.

I'm still going through these same steps and I've made good improvements so far. Also consider taking a class if you can find one that isnt meant to be recreational activity for children and the elderly.

Good luck, anon. If I can get better, surely you can too

>>7663350
I feel like corocoro comics have cartoony proportions. Mainly the comedy series

>>7663544
9x9 in 2025 is just lazy idiot shit. There are literally books listed in the top posts that explain advanced paneling, but idiots want to go for the easiest lowest hanging fruit while convincing themselves it's better this way.

>>7664112
bait used to be believable

>>7664112
more complicated =/= better
stop being loud and go draw

>>7664140
>>7664141
not that guy, but the 3x3 grid is extremely boring, it's a deliberate rejection of any and all panelling techniques. Literally any 3x3 page is improved by the use of normal panelling, it adds nothing and removes everything.
It's like using a 1 string guitar, you gain nothing by handicapping yourself with this lazy shit

>>7664141
this is the type of idiot that complains about words in a book

>>7661206
Because i don't like clankers, my family doesn't like clankers, we don't like clankers here!! They took our jobs and our woman, so fuck off

>>7664197
In theory shouldn't 1x3 be the most milquetoast offender?

>>7664514
1x3 at least gives more room for the art to breathe. 3x3 is like a storyboard for the concept stage.

>>7664465
>They took our jobs
That's wrong though. A.I. will help artists more in the long run. Those who learn to use it will survive. Those who don't will cry about A.I. like an old man yelling at clouds.

>>7664540
You can probably use an LLM to help organize a messy stream of consciousness script into a more usable format, or help generate ideas for scenes between major plot points.
Or use it to make scripts for screentone or effect line vector patterns, plugins or filters, maybe. Haven't tried that myself but it's an area of potential interest.

In terms of what diffusion art is useful for... Maybe as "stock imagery" to use for bashing together into certain objects or background elements. Like how Inio Asano does with his irl photos. Could give a unique look. Or just use it for mild elements (again, run through filters) in the same way the anon above is using 3d. If my understanding of his process is correct, this is also how Daromeon (Kengan Omega) primarily uses AI elements.

>>7664575
>In terms of what diffusion art is useful for
Yes, for now that's probably the most it can do. But you can find videos of people doing very complex things with it already. You can teach it to draw certain art styles, correct specific parts of the drawing (ie: highlighting hands and prompting with "anatomically correct 5 fingers" or "well defined angry face"). In the future, you can simply prompt each panel and slowly fix it just by telling the A.I. what to fix. Feed it a bunch of Oda's art pages and create one piece looking characters flawlessly. You wouldn't even need to manually bash together objects anymore, just highlight areas and redefine the prompt.

This is only the beginning. This is something we should rejoice over, not fear.

>>7664595
I'm not afraid of it. That might work for some people but I think it's still an extremely slow process to do all this.

For a writer who isn't an artist, AI art tools can potentially save them years of needing to learn art skills if they don't have the money for an artist or time to juggle multiple skillsets. And if they want better they can pay an artist still. It's likely to be shit if they have 0 understanding of good art, composition, etc. But it's an option and keeps the cheapskate beggars who only "need" artists rather want to partner with artists away from bothering us artists with lowball offers.

For an artist, LLMs can help with writing and some AI art tools can supplement them to help speed up the tasks manga "assistants" are usually helpful for. There have also been auto-color tools for over a decade and some auto-lighting tools as well. But again these can result in it looking (or reading) like shit if used clumsily, you still need to understand a good story to avoid it becoming bland and generic or having shitty dialogue, and if you can't control your art tools the AI assets you use will be horribly obvious, much like bad 3DCGI or traced models/photos.

>>7658769 (OP)
The artist somehow makes Macho-kun cuter as the manga goes on, but his proportions and body become more and more bizarre and nonsensical outside of a few shots.

It's a cute manga, storywise, but a lot of people who otherwise have some kind of a muscle fetish seem to drop it because the focus - his body - goes from reasonably exaggerated and cartoonish, to mostly kinda a gross parody by the end. In particular his neck and abdomen get way longer which looks strange.

>>7664595
Sounds boring unless you only see art and storytelling as a widget that comes off of an assembly line. Like in the end, why would I care about your particular story if there is zero personal flair or style, and you're just aping someone else's?

Like, that's my problem with AI. If there are a million people all prompting the same thing you are, what are you offering that makes your final product uniquely yours? If everyone can do the exact same thing nothing really draws me to your story or art if the endgame is generifying everyone's style, story, down to the exact same final product.

>>7664630
nta, you can still have something worth reading in that case, it just means your skill has to show through in areas of composition, layout, dialogue, etc.
If you read comics and manga for a specific element like observing the art, this wouldn't appeal to you. But there are people who it would appeal to. Again assuming it reached enough peoples' standards of "good" in those aspects.

>>7664197
>it's a deliberate rejection of any and all panelling techniques
It IS a paneling technique. A rejection of all paneling techniques would just be a comic that's nothing but full page illustrations.

Would you live here, assuming you were 5 inches tall?

>>7664759
gorgeous perspective, is the comic posted online?

>>7664759
5 inches? That place looks too small for a giant

>>7664759
You think you're better than me just cos you do good crosshatching? Because you're better than me, punk. >:(
Seriously though great job, very nice worms-eye perspective.

>>7664759
No. If I was 5 inches tall I wouldn't leave near anyone else that short. I hate midgets. Midjets piss me off

>>7664772
>I hate midgets. Midjets piss me off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qO66Rmi1Mw

>>7661346
>It's not illegal for a person to copy another person's style using their art as references. Thus, it is not illegal to use a program with A.I. to replicate another person's style.
why do aishitters immediately go ITS NOT ILLEGAL THOUGH whenever someone has a moral concern over that shit? of course its not illlegal every fucking billionare in the world is battling tooth and nail to prevent any regulation to pass (except for those that'd benefit them or give them exclusive access to it, of course), the point is that you cant pretend software has human rights or is equivalent to a person, and an individual drawing inspiration from artwork made by other humans to grow is just an expected and widely accepted part of the art process, its them taking a bit from the culture so that they can give it back, and even then if you are uncreative and just decide to become a second rate version of someone else people WILL give you shit for it

>>7662305
>he wants this to be the start of his own MCU.
i hope you can talk him into simplifying things a bit, otherwise good luck

>>7664197
>It's like using a 1 string guitar, you gain nothing by handicapping yourself with this lazy shit
https://youtu.be/E8H-67ILaqc

>>7664575
>this is also how Daromeon (Kengan Omega) primarily uses AI elements.
he's kinda of a bad example tho, omega looks worse every chapter and is an insane downgrade from asura, characters cant even stay consistent within the same chapters and the backgrounds are offputting due to the detail different and fucked up scale

>>7664916
Pro-AI people don't consider the software to be separate from the user. They consider any tools a person uses as an extension of that person. Ergo the claim being that since it's OK for a person to do it unaided it's OK for the person to do it with a tool.

If you have a moral objection you can just not engage with people who use it and not give them your money. Same as you would if you had a moral objection to an artist that threw pride flags all over their art or made fun of vegans.

>>7664926
Sounds like he might be overworked. The desire to use AI early on may have been to compensate for the problems.

>>7661258
Retard, look up what happened to Wind Breaker

>>7664925
I don't know this coon but I love me song eddie one string jones.

I'm thinking that in the future, once I’m done with the script, I might hire an artist to help with the pages. I'm not super into the idea, but since I draw too, I plan to have everything ready so he only needs to do the lineart, and I’ll handle the final touches and cleanup. I think that’ll make it easier for the artist to get what I’m going for.
Pic is an example of what I want. Of course I will also provide detailed character sheets

>>7664989
Good luck, though I think you're not gonna like seeing a better artist redraw all your sketches. Isn't that like someone fucking your wife for you?

>>7665013
Not him but the sketching is the fun part for me, not the inking.

I'm actually willing to become an assistant or even background artist for a writer but all of them are just plain awful. Just can't hold up to the average japanese mangaka.

>>7665043
Same, brother.

>>7665013
This is cope unless you're a god tier artist already. Who wouldn't want to just do the sketches while Murata draws the rest of it for you?

>>7665057
Cope? Its the opposite of cope. I am proud of my drawings.

If you don't like your art, then having someone else clean it up is literally a cope.

>>7665013
The artist is the one getting cucked though. Working long hours spending more effort than the writer who made everything in a day, bad cope.

>>7664759
Damn, this looks great. Nice job!

>>7665057
I want my work to be my own work

I have a bunch of really funny ideas for a joke manga, and I don't even need to draw that well for it, but it takes forever to do anything with my tablet and the input delay and all. Maybe I got memed getting a non screen drawing tablet but I can't afford some kind of big Samsung screen tablet just for a hobby I'm not devoted to
I almost want to just draw it on paper even though that's the shittiest option possible for something I just want to post online

>>7664761
>>7664768
>>7665064
Cheers, all
>gorgeous perspective, is the comic posted online?
This is only the second page. I've been slack but I'm done with writing and designing so it's full steam ahead.
>>7664762
Just don't step on anything or you will be pelted with arrows.
>>7664772
Wouldn't hanging out with normal people just make you feel shorter?

>>7664989
Or...... you keep drawing your comic and you slowly get better along the way anyway. This way it's also free.

>>7664989
One upside of comics art is that, 99% of what you have to draw is stuff you've already drawn before, ie the main characters, main locations, etc. And so if you just focus on learning how to draw those few things really well, perhaps in the form of a ref sheet, then you can just copy it in future times without having to think too hard.

That's how animators produce consistantly on-model art even if they themselves aren't amazing artists, they have a ref sheet, it's only when they're forced to draw something that is far removed from the ref that they struggle

This goofy Koffee Comics guy has been popping on my youtube recently, has anyone read his stuff?
His channel seems culture war/grift oriented and most of the things he makes look pretty mediocre.
He also seems to talk a lot of shit about the other authors in the indie space. Is he legit or just a complete mental patient?

>>7665013
I wouldnt mind but the problem would be I dont pretend to hire for every chapter and then I will have to keep it up lol
>>7665277
I am more concern in telling the story. I dont have much time to spend on comics and it will be even shorter in the future

>>7665473
I haven't seen his comic but I've also seen him on youtube.
He's extremely hostile and for no apparent rational reason

This guy puts it well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT6LJYTH2Ic
He needs to chill the fuck out. If he ever gets any actual success, he'll become a monster for sure.

>>7665473
I get the feeling he's radioactive hazard material in indie discussions online because he's openly against tranny shit. So just come to your own conclusion about his takes, anyone who has a lot to say about him is probably gonna hate him and say he's wrong about everything.

Is every "Western Manga" made by black dudes?

>>7665473
>channel seems culture war/grift oriented
>Is he . . . just a complete mental patient?
You answered your own question. Your average mangaka or just normal Japanese artist isn't caught sperging out on political or culture war junk for a reason. If anything, the only thing they're guilty of is maybe sometimes posting pics of their cat or food or FF14 (for some reason?). Just draw stuff people, damn.
>>7665482
But where are you going to get the money for this?

>>7665485
he sounds black

>>7665506
Damn, didn't know everyone here was black, then. Including myself apparently.

>>7662068
theres more to a shounen manga magazine than power fantasy.

>>7665473
>>7665485
>>7665493
>>7665509

Yeah I think the guy's just weird. This was under an interview he did recently...
Apparently he's just big mad at the other indie creators for ignoring him.

>>7665535
I've watched a comic review he did and he seems to give good advice. I don't care how weird he is or if hes a nobody, who cares about eceleb shit?

>>7665535
I get his frustration. You work hard, put thousands of hours into your work, and it flops. Feels bad, you'll look for anything to blame your failures on, and become jaded.

>>7665562
Its entirely possible amy of us write a passable to even semi-decent comic and it doesn't get the necessary traction hoped for. Maybe it was the art or the writing. Maybe it just wasnt the subject material currently in vogue right now. Maybe its the wrong sites uploaded to, or perhaps it literally is just bad luck. It's possible to do nothing wrong and still end up shafted, that's life sometimes. But you don't see any of us flipping their shit on youtube and ranting about politics.

>>7665620
His name was brought up a long while back here and I read what he's got posted online homie it makes no sense at all. It is objectively mediocre, I would probably get a better comic hitting the random button on ComicFury. It sounds to me like he filtered himself by thinking he was a bigshot and then when someone other than his relatives gave him a sincere review of his work, he couldn't put up with the fact that he's not as good as he thought.

>>7665521
so that's why those welfare checks keep coming in

>>7665634
the fact that he's not currently posting his comic everywhere as a no name indie dude is also a giant red flag...

>>7665620
>Its entirely possible amy of us write a passable to even semi-decent comic and it doesn't get the necessary traction hoped for.
Most of the time when I see people bitch about this kind of thing it's because it isn't anywhere near as good as they think. Or they're absolutely retarded when it comes to marketing and networking, possibly from being a social nincompoop.

>>7665620
Most of us probably aren't at the end of our ropes and still have hope. You can imagine when you feel like you've tried everything, and nothing works still, your comic is still ignored, then all that's left to do is complain. Or study really hard in writing/art, but that's tedious and difficult. So all I have to say is

FUCK manga, this industry is dogshit. Undeserving fucks always finding success instead of me.

>>7665652
he said this guy gives advice?? jesus f

>>7665686
>all that text
>vampire punch (lol, reminds me of dobson's lesbian kick)
Is that the whiner's comic? Say it aint so

>>7665686
why does every power or magic have to sound like metagaming vidya strats now?

>>7665686
You can tell this was made by an amateur because everything is drawn too small and the text would be illegible at a print size.

Exposition like that is better done over the course of a couple pages with cool images. Not "guy standing there like a FF14 NPC infoduming at you"

can you faggots take this shit flinging somewhere else

>>7665686
I read everyone's comics in /mmg/ and I would rather read every chapter of everyone's work once again in sequence than read another panel of this.

>>7665694
Three generations now raised on videogames being their main, if not only, form of entertainment.

>>7665689
I checked because I only read the first couple of chapters before, and to be honest I felt a little insulted. The very first page of that chapter opens with 4-5 different text blocks. It reminded me that I used to know a guy who actually finished his manga, and he was similarly a bit of a whiner about his work. There's no doubt that his story has objectively good things about it but when you first open it you are immediately greeted with walls and walls of backstory which tries to frame itself like a magazine, followed by 70 pages which barely move the plot forward. Listen. I write a slow burn drama, but this is like trying to filter out people with even the toughest attention spans because I couldn't make it through chapter two. Your first chapter needs to be THICK, SOLID, and TIGHT. Having an opener isn't bad especially if you are using it to add intrigue but either you get one solid friend to tell you the truth or you need the ability to be honest with yourself about how things really come off.

>>7665700
we're discussing manga. PYW then

>>7665686
>>7665695
This, in addition to being drawn too small, it violates a good rule of thumb that you should never use commas in your speech bubbles, it's not how normal people talk, and certainly not an interesting way to talk. At most you should break up sentences with '...'s but really you should just seperate them into seperate bubbles and pages. This is amatuer hour

>>7665683
hi koffee

>>7665727
I use commas :) It ain't a big deal.

>>7665723
fuck you, you post your work
you're ripping on some guy who doesn't even post here because it's easier to criticize others than to do anything for yourself

>>7665757
t. koffee
There are many good points being brought up, people are discussing and learning about comic making. Which is the point of this general. PYW if you want to talk about something else.

>>7665761
if you have a good point then post your work to prove its effectiveness
creating noise doesn't mean you're saying anything useful, just let the thread be silent if there's nothing to discuss

>>7664759
This is amazing

>>7664774
Oh Neely, a classic indeed. That wasn't the reference I was going for though
https://youtu.be/TWeIxTbxvP0?si=8I3dppyHSTiOJJa-&t=13

Didnt you guys already have this koffee guy discussion in the past? Anyway it feels totally non organic like you decided to vent about him here again.

>>7665854
it's a slow thread, it'll probably happen again and again

>>7665872
>koffee guy discussion in the past?
Wasn't it another dude who won the children’s book award that he tried to disingenuously imply it was a legit manga award via a video?

>>7665700
>>7665757
Understanding what not to do is important. Apart from an experienced individual intentionally making examples, having real displays of someone doing bad practices helps to show, rather than tell.

Many people learn better from seeing OTHER peoples' work critiqued, and critiquing others, than getting feedback on their own work.

>>7665936
>0 citations
>0 work posted
pyw and let the reader decide who's example to follow

>>7665485
these niggas would have better luck if they made one shots instead of jumping into long running shonen shit
people are more likely to be interested in you as an artist if when they click on your profile they can see 3 or 4 different stories you've worked on, bonus point if they're in different genre

>>7665700
>>7665757
>>7665816
>>7665951
Hi Koffee

>>7665968
Koffee isnt bear-comic anon. If he was I would be quite surprised.

>>7665978
no, he figured me out, I'm actually this other more talented and successful artist, I larp as a literal who permabeg on a mongolian basket weaving forum for shits and giggles

>>7666011
lol bear kun outed as a koffee guy, funny

>>7665694
It reads less like that and more like the typical shounen "This isn't even my final form" or "Tch, I was holding back the whole time. Here is my 100% power!"

>>7665473
It's impossible to read that title in anything other than a British accent.

>>7666011
>I larp as a literal who permabeg on a mongolian basket weaving forum for shits and giggles
Haven't you read the last 30 posts? This isn't a Mongolian basket weaving forum, this is an Indonesian sumatra coffee brewing forum. Smh my head famalam, anon-kun.