Thread 7671171

I released 4 more pages.

https://www.webtoons.com/en/canvas/rens-awakening/chapter-21/viewer?title_no=1034906&episode_no=2

>>7671171 (OP)
>sign in to read
no thanks

>>7671176
Sorry, I forgot about that. Let me post it

>>7671184
dramatic screaming on a boat. no forward momentum in 4 whole pages. waffling back and forth dialogue. not interested in what is happening

>>7671274
This

I read the whole thing and it's really just doesn't feel like it's going anywhere.

Like I get it's supposed to be all weird and surreal. But surrealism doesn't really work unless you go ham on the symbolism. It doesn't work if it's just randomness.

Look up Wally Wood's 22 Panels that always work.

>>7671274
>>7671286
I see. I feel like the first chapter was mainly build up. It was mostly action with little dialogue, and I think it established the premise of going into the brains of monsters. I figured that this chapter could start with the characters actually interacting, and establish a bit of their personalities.

In these four pages, we see that the young girl has a book that she cares deeply about (establishing motivation), and is prone to panic and overthinking. We see that Ren is mostly stoic in the face of stress. She’s even willing to help the girl, and is kind to the gross horse head

What can I do to make it feel like it’s progressing? I try to move the story forward

>>7671308
>and I think it established the premise of going into the brains of monsters.
???
nowhere in any of that did I get that premise. all I took away from that was the mc got resurrected to liberate someone's kingdom and is now running around aimlessly with a brown woman rambling about medicine. and a sheet monster in the woods teleported(?) them underwater.
what is there to critique here? this is like an unfinished prologue

I think the panel construction is atypical, but you made it work with pretty solid camera angles. Like, I haven't read any other parts of this comic, but I could follow the scene pretty clearly. I don't get the context, but I could tell what was happening. I also liked the the expressions and wood texture on the boat.
Only things I don't quite like are some of the poses and the background might be a little too noisy.
Overall though I like it! Keep up the cool work!

>>7671334
You’re not wrong. It’s really early into what will be a long comic.

>>7671340
Thank you! Yeah, I got comments that the posing felt unnatural. I do want the characters to be more cartooney, but it often looks awkward. I’m wondering how to convey a surreal environment dense with elements that have meaning in a less busy way. One person suggested that my values are all over the place. Maybe it’s more an issue of color/value than detail if I can effectively lead the eye

>>7671308
I didnt read the first chapter because the site wouldnt let me. Also characterisation starts the moment a character is introduced, and it doesnt stop throughout the entire story. It doesnt just occur with dialogue, it is conveyed through action, reaction, subtleties like body language and facial expressions.

In your explanation, thats all well and good but its not consice. you dont need panels appn panels to get the point across that one character is neurotic and another is calm. My rule for pacing is after 8 panels you should be on to the next scene, (and thats being generous)
Anything that is necessary to convey to the audience I need to do within that limit, and it forces me to be conservative with my brainstorming ideas and cut the fluff out.

(also FYI i am mostly classical in terms of the standard of art, I realise today there are many who ascribe to more post modern philosophies of how stories are written or structured, so bear that in mind when reading this)

>>7671362
Thank you. I’m mostly getting that I need to trim the fat. The entire script for chapter 2 (what will be 25-30 pages) is written. I do what I can to make each panel convey new information or move things forward.

For example, in the OP image:

Panel 1: Ren is incredulous, girl is defensive
Panel 2: Ren is about to say something about the girl’s character
Panel 3: Girl is staring daggers and is obviously unstable
Panel 4: Ren reels back and chooses to comment on the girl’s age instead of her mental state
Panel 5: Girl is still pissed and Ren redirects while befriending a gross horse head

I also don’t know how to physically cram more panels or text into pages without it becoming unreadable for mobile users

>>7671369
Also, we learn more about the girl’s interests and ego

>>7671369
you dont need to add more text or panels to get what you need. less words and panels are better anyway, so the trick is figuring out how to achieve that with less.

examples of good pacing in media ironically is scenes that execute characterisation and plot progression at the same time, (a character acts or reacts to something that establishes their traits, and somehow moves the story along in one motion. This saves you snd the audience's time, and provides them with context to the character, other characters or the plot that can be used later.

in other words, combining the important elements in one scene, as many as you can, makes for an engaging story. When the audience is experiencing this forward momentum, it lets the slow parts of a scene have its moment. Scenes can be considered a delicate balance between momentum and pauses, and too much of one turns good story and characters into a slog, or a manic mess of shit

>>7671897
I see what you mean. There is an issue of efficiency with this comic. I’m wondering if 1/3 to 1/2 a chapter of them talking is too much. I got input from someone that we don’t know anything about these characters, and that it would be unrealistic for them to not just sit and talk after going through all the shit from before

I think it’s fine to have a bit of a stop in the action after 30 pages of the characters doing stuff in chapter 1. Maybe if the comic came out faster. I know that the reader consumes pages quickly. I’m still trying to streamline my output a bit. Maybe just pre-creating all of the background textures to endlessly copy-paste for a given scene.

I’m even experimenting with origami/repurposed trash for models of elements. They can look like shit so long as it’s workable. I know that free 3D models exist, but I kind of hate the idea of rotating 3D elements digitally

Maybe if I figured out a faster output, the story can have more content sooner and be better judged. Not that the writing critique is invalid

>>7671178
her scream letters could be bolder. Not really sure if you wanted to emphasize the scream or the moping woman.

>>7671947
take your time. another good tip I received was to read your work as a rando whos stumbled across it, (to go even further a rando who doesnt usually read comics/manga). making things interesting without resorting to cheap tactics like anime snafus and jos weadon humor is a challenge unto itself, on top of all the development

>>7672194
Gotcha

>>7672302
Yeah. I usually just show it to randos because I have a hard time thinking from their perspective. I do have a list of banned expressions for the characters