How to fix and improve the accuracy of the face, eyes in turns?

>>7684799 (OP)
start by learning how to measure, your eyes are not good enough yet to do it without assistance
overlay the image often and draw what you see not what you think you see

>>7684799 (OP)
Keep drawing, learn geometry, use certain features and landmarks and measuring reference points, or just quickly chicken scratch it till it looks half right like an idiot

he looks like he works out at the library

kill yourself

>>7685056
Lmao

>>7684815
This is not good dude

>>7684799 (OP)

>>7684799 (OP)
If this is a real post. And you have this direct, visual comparison directly infront of your face - and you cannot tell what is different between them - you should not think about drawing or doing art of any kind. You are too stupid and your brain doesn't work well enough to discern visual differences

>>7684799 (OP)
Study the planes of the head. Buy an asaro head and draw from different angles. Also study skulls

>>7685212
Kek
Photoshop or ai?

>>7684799 (OP)
>forehead too big
>nose too narrow
>head wrong angle
>gave him a unibrow
>ear not even close to what the reference shows, clearly drawn by someone who doesn't know what an ear is
ARE YOU BLIND FAGGOT? USE YOUR FUCKING EYES. DRAW WHAT YOU SEE.

>>7684799 (OP)
trace it

>>7684815
The proportions and anatomy aren’t too bad but those lines are atrocious anon

>>7685144
>>7685578
no draws dont get a say lel

>>7684799 (OP)
Grids and sight size.

>>7685334
>>7685567
Thanks for the advice, you are scumbags

>>7685066
KYS, scum

woah this board is even shitter now

>>7684799 (OP)
use your pencil to measure angles and how certain features relate to others, flip your image horizontally either via mirror or your phone and draw more

>>7685587
>you are scumbags
This is why you'll never improve. Fucking retard gets offended when someone points out he doesn't know what an ear looks like.

>>7685582
>you need to be a pro in order to point out my shitty lines and inability to capture the likeness of the subject

>>7684815
Congrats you make him look like an out of work Phillipino

>>7684799 (OP)
Just draw.

>>7684799 (OP)
Just draw.

>>7685212
My sides.

>>7685972
the M is out of persective and that's not how shoulders work
the parts from the ref are pretty good tho (except for the ear)

>>7686002
Cool cool.

>>7684799 (OP)
I tried. Looks nothing like him

slop

>>7684799 (OP)
measure more

>>7684799 (OP)
oh jeez oh man

>>7684799 (OP)
Surely this thread proves you shouldn’t listen to any /ic/‘s advice.

>>7685582
amateur portraitist here. it looks okay but the likeness is way off. the quality of lines doesnt matter imo, i like the scruffiness. the eyes for one are too low and the forehead too long. minor things like that will throw off the whole image. if you want me to post my scruffy version, i'll get on it later since its still too hot to work right now

>>7685587
Im giving you genuine advice. You need to be honest with yourself and reality. People that are inclined to make visual art can tell the difference between the drawing and the reference immediately. Your brain isn't spotting the differences. Maybe you're actually inclined to do something else in this world. Something that your brain is naturally good at doing. You're trying to put the triangle into the circular peg

'tis but a fun venture to be doodlin, aye

Made the jaw a little too pronounced

become a trace chad
trace everything

eventually you'll draw like a pro

>>7686390
why trace if you could just take a photo. become a photographer if you refuse to draw

>>7686393
>wahh wahhh wahhhhhh tracing isn't REAL drawing
Tracing is the ultimate cheat code to drawing better. Simply trace and you will automatically learn how to draw like the people you trace.

>>7686268
I want to draw and learn to draw, why the hell are you immediately discouraging me, many other anons drew their first drawings incorrectly, because of people like you people quit drawing

>>7686423
this is true, but you shouldnt share it if you arent ready for flak. if you want to try it again, try flipping the source image upside down and draw the shapes in the sizes relative to each other that you see, not the faceparts you believe you see and then measure wrong.

>>7684799 (OP)
Your individual elements are mostly reasonable, and you're recording what's there, it's just a bit distorted or out of proportion.

Right now, your images are the same size and horizontally aligned. So for a start, you can draw some (digital) horizontal lines across both, just to compare heights of elements. You'll quickly see that your eyes and nose have dropped below where they should be.

For your next attempt, you might consider starting with a few measured guidlelines or points placed on your page (using a ruler) to help anchor things in the right place. You'll get better at proportion and positioning as you practice.

The other thing is: you are reducing a shaded form to a line drawing, and that may be clouding your judgment a bit. The forehead is largely black and disappears into the black visor, which is throwing off your ability to see it's shape. The same with the regions around the eyes, particularly the regions beneath the brows. You might try copying some line drawings rather than a photograph, too.

There's nothing wrong with your drawing that "keeping at it" won't fix. Draw this same image five times and you may be surprised by the best of the five.

>>7685212
Idk why he looks mexican now

this is quite challenging to draw satisfactorily, due to Robert being quite recognizable, and not seeing that in my drawing...

>>7686519
>tricks to help you trace with your eyes
no, I'm no cheater

>>7686525
>cheating is when you practice learning a form by tracing it and then dispose of the drawing as an exercise purely in visual comprehension and not trying to pass it off as legit artwork
retard alert! retard alert!

>>7686055
at least you can admit it instead of screaming crab. GMI
>>7686184
nothing like him
>>7686200
nothing like him
>>7686318
finally an artist itt who can capture likeness, well done anon

>>7686536
who are you quoting?

>>7686540
>finally an artist itt who can capture likeness, well done anon
i'm especially proud of the dick and boobs on the cap, capturing the movies themes as well in a juvenile manner. the logo already looked like it prior

first time posting a drawing here aigmi? left eyes a bit cooked ik

>>7686593
i assume you photgraphed it, because it looks a little skewed. otherwise its a very good likeness! small mistakes are easily fixed, so the eye would take the upper lid to be adjusted and both pupils slightly bigger to match the source. he has very little white in his eyes in the source, i noticed that when doing my version. his left eye also would need a slight adjustment clockwise (both matching then after the adjustments) and generally it would need to be a bit winder in general, compare the hats. but hey, its great either way.

>>7686617
thanks anon!
those are some good points

>>7686625
we're all gonna make it, you just have to be willing to sacrifice your energy and efforts towards your dream~

>>7686617
Aren't you that faggot? >>7685334

>>7685212
>Just change your reference to fit the results
Genius

>>7686730
nah. i wish the ip counter wasnt gone

>>7686593
How long have you been drawing?

>>7686738
a long time
i dont usually draw realistically tho

>>7684799 (OP)

i lost my motivation to keep going once i saw i fucked it up but i tried my best

>>7686790
thats purdy gud thoughever. you should have more confidence in your skills

>>7686797
ty. i did say i did my best! i'm not fishing for compliments. i meant more that i didn't give a fuck about finishing up the uniform with the same detail once i saw the measurements were wrong

>>7686800
the source image is not very good and its almost a full body shot of both characters in the original image, so its harder to get the exact details right anyway

>>7686790
easily the best so far

>>7686593
you are a fine artist although there is no likeness captured and yes the features are very wonky
>>7686790
close but you did what op did and gave him a massive tumor on his right side
>>7686810
not even close, >>7686318 is untouched so far. Only one that looks remotely like the actor

>>7686879
i think a lot of it is the stern expression, but my colleagues also forgot patmans pretty lashes, no matter how minor they seem in OPs image. i shall do a proper portrait one once the weather cools coming the weekend

>>7686879

pyw or stfu

>>7686901
nta but i get where hes coming from
yours may be the better looking drawing, but yours looks less like him
u made the macho man in the pic look a little nerdy and a little gay

always look at/double check the different two-dimensional relationships. depending on what you're drawing, and even the particular instance (say, of the head), these can differ, but for instance the vertical value of the side of the nose relative to the bottom of the ear. if you don't know how to make comparative measurements, learn. Keys to Drawing has a good guide, but there are others; just watching demos of trad artists can be useful in that regard too (for me, Stephen Bauman).

>>7684799 (OP)

>>7684799 (OP)
youre on the right track op

>>7686950
library pillled

Might as well try something. Pretty quick, I want to learn shading and practice faces. I want to practice more. I may continue with Bridgman later today, I left it just when he started talking about heads.

holy fuck this guy is really tough to draw but here's some guides i do sometimes that help. it find it important to make sure the lines are all following the same direction and having all the sections of the face clearly divided (having a line showing you how the each feature is angled and takes space in the face) also makes it sort of easier to keep proportions close to the reference. it'd help you to take the picture beforehand and add some guidelines so you can copy it to paper later (copying the guidelines as closely as possible to make sure you actually do stick to your 'draft')
i'm no professional so take this all with a grain of salt, it's just what has made me improve so far in getting faces a bit more accurate to the reference

>>7686901
idrgaf if you're mad, okay I never said you suck, you clearly have some technical skill. you simply failed to capture the likeness whatsoever. I do'nt know what's going on with your art, your ability seems extremely rigid, I think you need to loosen up

>>7687030
I was about to say we have a new king, but then I laid the piece over the original and some of the shadow blocks are 1:1 exactly on point, so you clearly cheated. for shame anon, >>7686318
is still the king itt

>>7684799 (OP)
something ive noticed no one itt has been able to capture: the stern concentration of his eyes

everyone makes him look either too sad or too spacey

>>7687191
man i think 1:1 is too much but i'll take it as a compliment
also sorry for the really shitty gif, my laptop cant record CSP without breaking down

>>7684799 (OP)
Is a fucking dictator

>>7687221
oh yeah, the cheekbone, the nose and the mouth is a little inwards. the neck on the backside also doesnt line up right and the ear is smaller. sometimes the combination of minute details can throw off the whole gestalt. its weird how that works sometimes.

>>7687221
and you forgot his eyelashes as well i just noticed. the devils in the detail~

>>7684799 (OP)
I tried but it doesn't look like him either lol

>>7684799 (OP)
Along with what the other anons said about asaro heads and planes of the head, I would add that an important thing to nail down portraiture is getting the angles of the face right. Here's a video that really helped me with that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMX3K3YMbd8

>>7687321
man you're so right. i was so focused into getting the general proportions and 'big picture' right that i feel like it doesn't look like him at all because i missed the details. another anon said that people usually get his stare too sad and that's also really hard to avoid lol but well we learn by trying. to be fair he has a really weird face (in a good way)

>>7687221
Nta but your little grid trick is cheating. If you can't freehand it you can't draw it. It's basically tracing

>>7687719
do you think OP will benefit of strictly freehanding stuff? i don't do it anymore but it helped me learn and i'm not the only one. there's no shame in using 'tricks' when learning as long as you learn to apply the knowledge later and not just 'trace' mindlessly. that's why the grid is helpful for learning instead of just tracing. it was just a suggestion anyway, but i don't think it's as deep as 'cheating'

>>7687719
its not really cheating, because he cheated himself as well, since some stuff is still not right, so minute, but crucial. and if he is or were in the industry, its just another tool to produce things faster, not necessarily art. if i were in advertising or somsuch i would cheat all day all night, because why not. it doesnt have any spiritual value there

>cheating
it's funny to see old memes kept alive by retards
at least it slows down the competition

>>7687760
i always thought of it as training wheels. i don't need them anymore and i used them merely to show that it can help you improve if you practice with them and it trains your eye so you can eventually stop relying on them to draw from reference

>>7687770
>competition
if you're a tool for the industry, you may see it as competition ;^) now back my little cog, mr. rosenberg needs some more products for his portfolio

>>7687736
It's cheating in my eyes. My goal is to be able to create anything from my mind to my own satisfaction. It seems to so many, they don't care about that skill. They just want perfect replication no matter the cost. I think that's why AI is so popular. Results are all that matter anymore. So yeah, it is cheating, cheating himself as >>7687760 pointed out. You see the smugness of >>7687770? Oooh competition, results, performance, gotta get mine, this is all the mindset of a failure. Art is about freedom of expression and you have all these grindset fags who just want to make money. Fuck it use a grid, fuck it lets copy fuck it lets trace, oh fuck it everyone else is using AI why shouldn't I, fuck it lets just hide that it's AI because everyone else does it, competition amirite?

>>7687770
>slows down the competition
I cannot fathom how you think you are in competition with anyone by drawing on the internet. You think people only have $5 to give to one patreon artist and they have to choose? You think they are only willing to follow 1 artist and they have to pick? Gad dayum yer a dum one

it's fine if you don't want to compete for attention, money, jobs or commissions
it's good too if you stagnate because you think grids are beneath you and keep winging it incorrectly
keep repeating the memes, cripple a whole new batch of begs in the process, it will be great

>>7687812
i agree that the point of art should not be to just put out a pretty image just because of it being pleasing or accurate and it should be to create to one's own satisfaction and not just to replicate, instead. but what if part of the stuff i want to create needs technical skill, as well? what if i want to be able to portay faces accurrately and for them to take part of a bigger piece? art is not merely creative, though i know the biggest part should be, but i want my art to be something to be proud of, and my skill as well. big part of art is learning and practising and not only putting out stuff that i'm proud about, and that's alright. a study like the one i made has no merit in itself, it was just to tips explain meant for practising and to be able to create art entirely from your mind someday that you'll be proud of if what you desire is to do semirealism or focus on faces in this case.

i'm not a professional artist, i don't want to be one, i don't care about money and i don't claim my work has any merit, specially the sketch i posted.
when it comes to art that i'm proud of, i try to apply my knowledge without any sort of guide; but i didn't learn these things out of thin air. this thread was about advice and not personal goals. i've tried many techniques to replicate a picture and using guides (even if i don't draw them, it's easy to picture them in your brain eventually) helps. if you think that artists should not try and learn facial proportions and feature placement by studying then idk what to tell you

>>7687839
if you draw for money and attention, youre not an artist, but a tool. simple as. you can use them if you want, no ones stopping you, but you never left the beginner circle. might as well trace and prompt your way to the top, because why not? money and fame is all that matters to you

>>7687845
totally bro, that's why there are so few social media / growth / commissions / etc threads on ic
your motives should be pure like your anime waifu, no one should try to make a living through their art
no need to be like those begs that work on commercial products that people like and pay money for

>>7687881
talk about seething and projections lol

>>7687892
I'm literally trying to help you see the delusion you've fallen for
it's OK to want to make art for a living
it's OK to want to have your art seen and liked by people
it's sad to see anons grind hard to improve and then fall to self-deception with midwit cliches ("youre not an artist, but a tool" ???)
I'll stop derailing the thread and draw now

>>7687901
how is it deluded to want to create art for arts sake? if anything its pure and ultimately boundless. obviously its also the hardest road, but mastery is never easy. use all the prompts and grids you want, i aint stopping you from selling out, but creating art for money and fame is just playing "their" game, like a tool.

>>7687907
how is a grid comparable to using prompts/ai art? you still have to draw the whole thing if you use a grid. you'll most likely still struggle and spend hours trying to polish your work. i don't get how using tools to study and get better equals being a sell out and only caring about money and fame

>>7684799 (OP)
i tried

>>7687941
use a grid or at least an envelope and some plumb lines

>>7687812
If you're replicating a photo you're already 'cheating'. You're not drawing from your mind, you're drawing from a photo.

It's fine to use photos, it's fine to use grids, it's fine to copy, it's fine to trace, hell it's fine to use AI. It's only a problem when your tools override artistic vision. But that isn't necessarily the case. It just speaks to a narrow view of what art is, which is pretty ironic from the guy faffing about freedom of expression. You talk more like you're coping about having failed his bid for money and attention than someone who actually enjoys art for art's sake. If you were actually interested in art as an action, you would be interested in other people's processes, not disappointed that they don't use your own.

>>7687948
thanks for the advice! I completely messed up the eyes and nose (at least more than the rest) so yeah some construction would have helped

>>7687963
>you're replicating a photo you're already 'cheating
No you aren't. The ultimate skill for an artist is combination of sight, mind and hand in order to produce a work. Drawing from imagination is just an accessory to that. Using grids, tracing etc is all just circumventing the actual 3 skills listed above. Literally the only way it isn't cheating is if you are using it for personal practice or studying. As soon as you post it and say "I drew this" you are cheating. Similarly the only way ref usage is cheating is if you say "i drew this without a ref".

Say yer fond of me drawin', Winslow!