Thread 7716856

The progression:
Before learning to draw
>drawing is all about talent, it can't be learned
While trying to learn how to draw
>wow, actually drawing CAN be learned!
After having studied art for several years
>drawing is actually mostly about talent, and the so-called learnable parts are actually a very small fraction of what makes somebody a good artist, and the parts that make somebody good really can't be learned through study

So are you telling me I'm capped on skill level after a certain amount of effort?

>the parts that make somebody good
what parts?

>>7716856 (OP)

> what makes somebody a good artist

good question what make a someone a good artist?

>>7716856 (OP)
This is obviously true.
The only reason people say otherwise is because they want to believe in the just world fallacy. They want to believe that they can accomplish anything if they set their minds to it, and that everything they have accomplished is due to their own efforts.

There are scores of neckbeards with 20,000 hours in grindy MMOs. They have more than put in the hours, playing the same game for 8 hours a day for decades. Guess what? Half of them are still fucking garbage at the game.

>>7716919
its not true. "talent" is just an inclination towards a certain art. theres million ways to create fucking art, even the bannanatapetranny piece is art, no matter how stupid you think it is. and its actually quite on point, showing you how stupid all this discussion is and how the passage of time deteriorates everything you created, because all things end. you can have a talent for portraits, a talent for animu, a talent for life drawing or landscapes, there is no universal "art" talent. jack of all trades dont exist, because there isnt enough time to learn every style and draw everything that exists.

pick a goal and work towards it. thats where most of you talent larpers fail. you dont even know what you want to do with your doodles.

^
Notice how, despite the words, no real attempt to refute the point was made?

>driving is mostly a talent
>writing is mostly a talent
>flipping popcorn buckets is mostly a talent
I rest my case that everyone can drive, but there's always someone who drives better than you do.

>>7716966
On first viewing of this popcorn guy I was like
>woah dat cool
On second viewing - hes doing a bunch of shit that doesnt do anything
Its the equivelant clapping your hands before brushing your teeth
He's adding nothing but flair

>>7716972
Showmanship, baby.

>>7716972
>He's adding nothing but flair
Isn't this how stylization works? To create an appealing illusion with simple lines?

>>7716856 (OP)
it's called genetic determinism. visit pol more often

>>7716966
>driving is mostly a talent
>writing is mostly a talent
uh, yes, retard
the average person could practice driving for 100 years and still not come close to F1 standards
same for writing, it's been 20 years since amazon let people self publish and shown everyone how little progress people make in decades

>>7716975
The popcorn spinning is the equivalent of using chromatic abration or adding randok screentones to an image
Putting the popcorn in the bucket and layering it with the correct amount of butter is fundies

>>7717009
/ic/ - Popcorn

>>7717005
>the average person could practice driving for 100 years and still not come close to F1 standards
Do you need F1 standards to make yourself noticeable? As long you make the job done even undertale pixel slop works.

>>7717044
nobody's noticing you driving in traffic
yes, you need to be extremely good at driving to get noticed for your driving
>As long you make the job done even undertale pixel slop works.
>as long as you can drive the bus to bingo night you're good
cope

>>7717044
The issue with drawing in particular is that a lot of it boils down to a hard to define appeal quality. Some people produce strong technically skilled art which follows all the rules, but viewers don't even give it a second glance. Other people couldn't accurately draw a realistic sketch from a live model to save their lives, and have probably never once cracked open an anatomy textbook, but what comes out on paper when they think "hey I want to draw a cool guy in baggy clothes riding a skateboard!" just happens to turn out in a way that people look at and think "daaamn that looks cool! Hey can I get that on a shirt???".
I had something like that happen even within my own art. I drew something over a decade ago which to me was just whatever, and I'm far more versatile and technically skilled now than what I was back then, yet that one piece has been far, far, far more popular than everything I've ever drawn since, even to this day.
And I have no fucking clue why, or why what I draw now seemingly has far less appeal than a drawing which I look at now and see nothing but mistakes.

>>7716972
>hes doing a bunch of shit that doesnt do anything
Salt Bae be like

>>7716954
you could try replying, brainlet. theres no universal talent. bu fucking hu, you cant draw anime smut well enough to propell yourself from your thirdie shithole towards the big boys club? get a grip. you were never an artist in the first place, but a content creator for other retards to jack off to.

Pic is one of the most successful artists in the US right now. The only key to success is to be retarded. The more you practice, the more you erode the marketable retardation within you. This is why great artists are so poor and retarded ones are not. Do not lose the beautiful and lucrative retardedness within you.

Learning how to think like talented people can is possible, but it takes time. It's better to be naturally wired.

>>7717048
>you need to be extremely good at driving to get noticed for your driving
>implying driving skills get you noticed when in reality your ability to move people and resources is more interesting
Nobody gives a shit about your ultra realism if you can only paint lesbians sipping coffee.

I started drawing out of pure arrogance after seeing pewdiepie's art video believing I can do better. my irrationally large ego tells me im talented and better than most people at most subjects if I just focus, also it just replaced my fps gaming addiction.

>>7716975
This is correct, and the inability to understand this is why >>7716972
will never create appealing art. Your brain can't understand it on an instinctive level so you dismiss it

>>7717623
>I'll do it tomorrow
>I'll magically develop, commitment, drive and goals
>i wake up

>>7716972
>On second viewing - hes doing a bunch of shit that doesnt do anything
... did you... did you seriously think that he was spinning the container around because it was integral to the popcorn making process?
Of course it was all for spectacle! He's entertaining people as he serves them, and grabbing people's attention, thus advertising the popcorn and other food and drinks, and thus making more money.
A lot of people probably get popcorn from him just to see him spin the popcorn container around, it's pre-show entertainment, the opening act.

How can you try and be so intellectual, think about it so much, and yet not see the obvious of what's going on?

>its another midwit /beg/ larping as an an enlightened 150iq monk thread

it's simply taste.

The true blackpill is seeing someone with worse skills than you have 10x the engagement, which motivates then to keep drawing so they have 10x the number of drawings too.

>>7718216
It's that pure, childlike joy of being able to create something that people unironically love and want to see more of. I'd give anything to have that

>>7718216
Then the deathpill is when that engagement-driven motivation to keep drawing results in them not only having more appealing art than you, but also more technically skilled aka "better" art than you.

>>7717849
>come to pay him
The dude works in a theater getting a standard wage
I guarentee this guy gets paid the same as jo-shmoe putting popcorn in the box as normal
Maybe he gets tips? I come from a country were we dont tip - why would I consider that?
What about the hundred times he spun the box and spilt shit everywhere?
What about being in a rush and just want my damm popcorn

For someone yapping about intelligence you sure had a retarded take

>>7718540
People are impressed, they compliment him, increasing his morale, someone stops to talk to him, he makes connections, he fucks a different woman each week. Incels wouldn't get it.

>>7717687
>This is correct, and the inability to understand this is why >>7716972
>will never create appealing art. Your brain can't understand it on an instinctive level so you dismiss it

damn dude, sorry I didn't appreciate pop-corn spinning guy

>>7717600
>heh, actually, driving a bus is way more interesting than zooming at the limits of human reaction time in automotive engineering masterpieces in front of a roaring crowd
lol
okay

>>7717009
>no one remembers or cares about the employee who just puts the popcorn in bucket and layers it with the correct amount of butter
Makes you think don't it?

You just want an excuse to give up and for people to validate your surrender.
Either draw or not draw.
Only you care if you do it.
Nobody else really gives a shit.
It's you against yourself, not you against the rest of the world and their inherited genetic talents.
And you can't even beat one person, how will you ever find the strenght to beat everyone else that's way stronger than you anyway?
Give up. Nobody gives a shit if you stop, and nobody gives a shit if you'll keep fighting and struggling.
This is only something you can do for the love of yourself and what you think, there's nothing more to it. And you clearly love others more than you love yourself, so your struggle is pointless because you've already betrayed yourself to fight for others.

I wonder why people with this kind of deterministic thinking hasn't killed themselves yet

>>7716856 (OP)
you're a dumbfuck who has not bothered to learn from other people, aren't you? Have you just been in your room grinding? Because that's how your ass gets capped.

>>7719943
>you're a dumbfuck who has not bothered to learn from other people, aren't you?

Plenty of artists learn on their own, anon.

>>7719869
Because we are hard wired by million of years of evolution to not kill ourselves and wait for death instead.

>>7716972
>he's doing nothing but entertaining you
At a theater.

Yes, you're 100% correct. Not everybody is cut out for art. People should just give up, it's less competition for us.

>>7716856 (OP)
define 'talent'

>>7719944
art is as much a social structure as it is a personal one. If you aren't going out and talking to others about your work, finding actual art groups IRL, or going past your boundaries, you will just hit a cap. Our creative structures don't work entirely in a vacuum unless you are some kind of outsider artist with some kind of weird thing in your head, and even those folks plateau when left entirely alone.

drawing is literally the same as working out
those who just go in and do what they feel like will always stay the same body shape; just a little bit more muscle.
Those who religiously follow a program and push themselves are the ones that end up with their pictures being saved across tens of thousands of devices.
It's ironic that people will spend all day malding about lack of sm likes and never post anything while some 14 year old will be animating shit on tiktok and be called a genius when he/she just happens to use their free time to learn AND TO ACTUALLY PRACTICE

>>7720371
Hand eye coordination, spacial, colour and value perceptiveness, memorization of various concepts, intuition of technique application and ambiguous problem solving.
Why would art be any different than other fields where some people are considered to be naturally gifted.

>>7720466
and in all those fields you can work up to that level, it just might take longer.

You people need to stop watching anime. that raw talent lie in shonen shit is rotting your brain.

>>7716856 (OP)
You can learn all parts of drawing just with more difficuilty than the talented
If you want "soul" then learn about composition, appeal and story telling

>>7717845
>>7717623
>I'll do it today
>pick up a pen and do some little doodles
>Better than nothing
>do a few more doodles the next day
>and then the next
>have a habit now

>>7720371
A natural ability or inclination for something, which will make you better than anyone else.
Memorization and recall aren't things that can be just learned, like a photographic/eidetic memory.

There are people that have the absolute pitch, which I guess it will make you a better musician or singer.

>>7720714
You don't become an artist by doing this, you become a doodler. Take time to build a plan and reflect on what went right and what can go better after each session. I've lived with the "One is better than Zero" mentality only to waste time doing what I enjoy rather than what's needed to move the needle.

>>7716856 (OP)
Everyone can learn to speak, but the ability to speak does not make everyone a poet.

>>7716856 (OP)
>>7716911
Starting with orange

>>7716966
I'm glad he has fun spinning a bucket around. He looks like a dumbass doing it but he's getting exercise or something

>>7720371
Having a wealth good ideas, maybe even "appeal". People with talent can make the most out of simple works.

As much as I believe talent doesn't really matter, I still think we should pretend it does just to get dead end shitters to fuck off.

Whether or not talent exists in the facts and logic realm of reality is irrelevant compared to how much 90%+ of people who pick up a pencil should, in all seriousness, just put that shit back down and never look back, for the sanity and well-being of themselves and everyone around them.

>>7716856 (OP)
Yeah you should probably just give up. If you're looking for a sign to quit this is it. It's over, man.

>>7716966
What anime is this?

>>7717226
HOW DO I ACHIEVE RETARDED NIRVANA. NEED ANSWERS NOW

>>7716975
>stylization
>simplification
>appeal
Would do you well to read this
>>7724487

>>7719776
>It's you against yourself, not you against the rest of the world and their inherited genetic talents.
trvke

>>7729438
>stylization
not realism
>simplification
using the least amount of line to reach a desired outcome
>appeal
what most people like. agreeable, commong motifs

>>7720464
What about the people who work or for years and don't even look like they lift?
What about the people who are still lonely virgins despite putting years of effort into the fundies of health?
What about the people who were born with pencil wrists and low energy or even disabilities preventing them from working out?
How do they fit in your cute little analogy?