Thread 7724592

I just found out that Shigenori Soejima painted all his Persona 3 and 4 between like 2005-2008 (and still to this day) on an intuos 3 in Paint tool SAI FROM THE WRIST.

I can't even comprehend how he still doesn't have carpal tunnel syndrome or how it's even possible at all to make art this clean drawing like this.
Someone explain this shit to me, as someone who drew on a pen tablet for decades before switching to a screen one it was a fucking pain in the ass, I could never do any kind of clean line art on it.

I'll post the vid on how he draws and more examples below.

>>7724592 (OP)
Here's how he draws.
From this vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwpLv3ZhC5M

And this article
https://personacentral.com/atlus-character-designer-shigenori-soejima-interview-pixivision-workplace-process/
>Soejima’s favorite pen tablet is an “Intuos 3” from 10 years ago. A good workman does not blame his tools!

>>7724592 (OP)
wow i love wacom now

>>7724594
Exactly how you think, look at any of the lines in these pics

>>7724614
Like look at this one up close on the helmet of whatever the monster thing is in top left.
It's very jagged if you zoom in.
That's because it was literally scratched in millimiter by millimeter with tiny little scratches filling up that line like he does in the vid.
It wasn't draw in one continuous swoop.
That's exactly how Japanese draw with traditional ink dip pens, they scratch the lines it with tiny little movements.
Check out Naoki Urasawa's channel on youtube, that's exactly how he draws too, from the wrist filling out long lines bit by tiny bit with small movements.

It's a pain but I guess he's just used to it.

>>7724625
And the rest is literally just basic SAI gradients and layer effects applied on top of flat colors to make it look flashier.

>>7724626
>>7724592 (OP)
Wait wait wait what?
does he really use paint tool sai?
not photoshop?

>>7724651
Yes, he uses SAI.
And yes, he chicken scratches all his lines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcXnouOND14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbZUvWs-XyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mMUr2C1Aio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrCAfbuLUwk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YAJkM9fX_w

>>7724592 (OP)
He also uses Photoshop for the heavier non-drawing editing portions. Pic related he edited with Photoshop for finishing touches.

While he does use Paint Tool Sai for drawing, it's not the only program he uses.

>>7724654
Oh okay.
So he draws in sai and does the editing in photoshop, that makes a lot more sense.
I don't particularly see what about this pic specifically needed to be edited in photoshop though.
Just the shadow effects on Aigis?
And the circles?
Because it looks like just a flat colored image otherwise.

But yeah that Chie pic in the OP 100% could NOT be made in sai, no way in hell.
It has so many advanced filters and edits on it that is only possible in photoshop.

>>7724656
?
What?
Nothing about it is impossible to make in SAI.
It just has a blur effect and some blue hard light gradients overlayed on top of it with sharpening to give a camera lense look.

>>7724656
It's just overbloomed as fuck, my guess is he applied the glow effect on a separate layer.
You can make a glow brush in sai easy.

>>7724661
What glow?
There is no glow retard it's just airbrush.

>>7724665
Are you blind?

>>7724656
>I don't particularly see what about this pic specifically needed to be edited in photoshop though.

The coffin. Years ago I looked up his process and came across an image of him working on this piece in Photoshop. IIRC he was using the straight line tool to work on the coffin's lineart pre-coloring stage.

I am trying to find it but it's proving to be difficult since most of the images with him drawing are of the latest Persona 5 shit.

>>7724679
Huh, I see, I mean SAI has the straight line/pen tool too.
I'd appreciate it if you could find them, I'm interested.

>>7724656
reminds me of the recent thread where a guy was trying to copy Soejima's style by painting every single gradient by hand when Soejima himself uses photoshop and messes with the curves and sliders to get that blown out look

>>7724691
That seems painful.
I do wonder how he does it though, I never managed to make anything good looking with photoshop filters.

Are you really impressed by an anime slopper? Really?

>>7724702
>anime slopper behind the biggest and best selling games of the last 2 decades
pyw, crab

>>7724704
And Basquiat made oodles of money painting demonic hoodrats with sinus infections. What's your point?

>>7724707
pyw

>>7724708
You first, thirdie.

>>7724710
crab confirmed

>>7724712
Thirdie verified.

Hopefully one day someone will be impressed by what you draw.

surprised his style hasn't been fed to an AI yet

>>7724724
it has

>>7724724
What do you mean, there are hundreds of soejima loras.

>>7724697
If you can't use basic photo filters you might genuinely be turbo retarded.

Man he's really improved

>>7724771
That looks worse, he regressed.
Happens to everyone though, he's getting old.

He was using an Intuos 3 L for most of his career, I believe he was peer pressured into getting a screen tablet or was shoehorned into using one by Ugee in recent years.

>SAI FROM THE WRIST

I don't understand what you mean, a Large intuos accommodates elbow/shoulder movements perfectly, it is an objectively healthier way to draw than using a screen is.

>>7724792
shit taste or bait?

>>7724827
I mean this
>>7724594

He draws from the wrist.

>>7724837
my brother look at it, it looks like blobs of paint
he didn't even finish rendering it

>>7724838
I apologize, I was not familiar with mr. Soejima's game. There is no reason his cursor should be moving at that accelerated a rate given his physical movements unless he's drawing on like a 50 inch display or is drawing extremely small-or heaven forbid-he's constrained the active area of the tablet itself which is completely unhinged, objectively

>>7724848
He draws on a 16-17 inch 1080p monitor in that video.
Like I said before he chicken scratches everything.

>>7724594
>A good workman does not blame his tools!
But old Intuoses are great, tho.

>>7724592 (OP)
how do I draw this good without using a huge fucking billion pixel canvas?

All digital art looks fake and artificial. They all use stabilizers anyway. Anyone can draw clean with stabilizer.

>>7724969
He uses a pretty small canvas, look at his metaphor drawing stream, it's like 2000x1800

>>7724973
He doesn't use stabilizers either, it's at 0 in sai.

>>7724995
Why is the pic so big then?

>>7724999
It's a high res scan.
The physical printed page itself from the artbook is small, it's A5-ish.

>>7724656
In general, several artists use CSP or SAI, and then use Photoshop for the final editing. Many leave the last part as a secret though.

>>7724973
art is artificial

>>7724651
Combination of both.

I don't get the weird treatment sai and screenless tablets get when both are perfectly fine. Sai in fact is honestly better than some of its competitors that everyone uses for some reason

>>7724948
>But old Intuoses are great, tho.
Compare this dogshit 2025 tablet to >>7724594 his intous3

it's not even funny how bad things are

>>7724625
So why doesn't it look jagged/scratchy without zooming? Does he just draw in high resolution?

>>7725019
dayum, that's deep

>both tablet ergonomics schizo and stabilizer schizo in the same thread
wew

>>7725236
Yeah, do you think a circle is round?
The more you zoom in the more it's just straight lines stacked at an angle one on top of the other.

>>7725228
What's wrong with the new intuoses?
They're perfectly fine, they literally perform the exact same since they haven't been changed internally in decades, it's literally the exact same technology they just change how they look.

>>7725374
For one example I noticed with One by Wacom is that nibs use up stupidly quickly. I had to put in trimmer wire.

>>7725380
well first of all one is not the same as intuos line, one is different
and secondly yeah they all do that since they started putting up rougher surface cover on them for more grip, intuos 3 was smooth so it didn't wear down nibs but it was also glidy and slippery as fuck because of that

but like that's not really a problem, you can just get a spool of plastic wire for like a dollar and cut the nibs from it with cutting pliers, it'll last for like 100 years

>>7725374
There is a schizo on ic who spams about the intuos 3 (a very good tablet) being the best product ever and everything else being chinkshit or wacom being jewish now.

>>7725228
2025 intuos is a gem

>>7724594
Where is this video from?

>>7725545
Never mind. The channel made the videos themselves, I think. No idea if they are spliced interviews or their own interviews.
>>7725380
Put paper on top of the tablet.

>>7725374
I don’t get it either. What’s so bad about modern Intuos?

>>7725551
why are buttons placed on top

>>7725228
Yes the Intuos 3 and 4 models are plainly better than those that followed, the only change was a much more fragile surface texture and asinine wireless features

No comment on the very newest Intuos (yet) as I haven't used them. I don't like the central hotkey placement but I have to relent I don't use the hotkeys on the tablet itself anyway; the active area is slightly larger than older models on average which is good but it's not nearly enough.

That all said, if you use your tablet off to the side like that instead of in front of your screen you're being fucking retarded and need to correct yourself immediately. Also the top of your screen should be level with your browline, put the laptop on a stand

>>7725311
Funny how I post couple times outside a certain thread a year if even that and yet I'm a "named poster"; my main character energy is even more overwhelmingly potent than I thought.

>>7724592 (OP)
wait until you discover every western comic book artist

>>7725568
what about them

>>7725383
>glidy and slippery as fuck
It's really not that bad, this is unironically a skill issue. Do your Peter Han manual dexterity exercises and you will appreciate the surface's consistency which is absent in current generation models that wear away so quickly with use.

>>7725537
>chinkshit
I was willing to give the Ugee Deco Pro Gen 2 the crown on appearances for its design alone until it didn't work properly and their official account ghosted my ass on ebay. They were very quick to try replacing the stylus which I can appreciate, but but when that didn't work either they just straight up stopped responding even as I offered to send every last bit of it back and was 100% cordial with them. I was very excited to use it and instead I got fucked.

Very strange because the previous model, the Deco 2 worked just fine, its only fault being a comically loud drawing surface

>jewish

Wacom has unambiguously manufactured planned obsolescence into their products for like 20 years tho.

>>7725582
>Wacom has unambiguously manufactured planned obsolescence into their products for like 20 years tho.
that's every company and every product
that's built in with trying to sell something

With that being the case, I have an Intuos 3 PTZ-631W I'd kept stowed in my backpack and have used every day at work for the past 12 years and it still looks like brand new, whereas an Intuos Pro I happened to acquire started becoming visibly distressed the second I started drawing on it and even damaged the stylus nib using the exact same pressure (in my case, very little beyond the weight of the stylus itself).

With modern tablets I highly recommend using a surface cover of some sort. There are slick, smooth paper products like marker paper that may work well, a thin plastic acetate sheet cut to size would also be a good thing to try, affixed to the surface with some kind of light adhesive. I've been looking for a consistent source of material like that so I can restore beat up Intuos 4s and 5s in particular but I haven't had any luck.

>>7725567
>That all said, if you use your tablet off to the side like that instead of in front of your screen you're being fucking retarded and need to correct yourself immediately.
Gigachad here that uses it both centered and to the right, AMA.

>>7725627
Okay, here's my question: Fucking "Why"

>>7725645
no reason whatsoever

>>7724837
Persona art was better is not really a hot take.

>>7724848
I've seen a couple pros that do restrict the active area a lot. They draw with small movements, mostly from the fingers/wrist. They were Japanese.

>>7726365
psychotic behavior

>>7724592 (OP)
its weeb trash that takes like 20 mins to do you fucking retard

>>7726416
pyw

>>7726444
NTA but what are you seeing in this face that the rest of us can't see?

>>7724592 (OP)
Drawing from your shoulder is a permabeg meme, same as every other single piece of advice you've ever read on /ic/

>>7726455
Wrong

>>7726455
No, that one is actually good. You should not rely on your wrist.

>>7726416
>>7726452
you can't draw on the same level. you couldn't even accurately copy it.

>>7726461
in the next 5 years the next thing will be "dont bend ur index finger when drawing" and you sheep will follow it religiously

>>7726464
beg here. my palm gets really sticky in summer and clamps to the screen when I draw, so it’s harder to draw from the wrist. Are you supposed to lift your hand a few cm off the screen?

>>7726473
Yes, just let the pen relax as much as possible in your hand. It takes getting used to. Think about how you would hold the pen if you're offering it to someone; you wouldn't grip it hard at all. Keep the screen at an angle and just let the pen move across it gently, using your whole arm. Save the tripod grip for small details.

>>7726474
This advice might not work if your screen is too small. But I've gotten so used to overhand that I use it when drawing in my moleskine. I've never had wrist problems. Aaron Blaise talks about never having wrist problems because he only uses overhand and being surprised at how many twentysomethings need carpal tunnel surgery. It's fucked. Tripod grip is just a writing grip; it's not designed for drawing.

>>7726474
>>7726475
Thank you anon, I’ll try that out today. I’ve been using tripod grip this whole time unfortunately…

>>7726452
i'm not telling you to post your work because i think the style you're criticizing looks good

>>7726452
i'm not telling him to post work because i think the style he's criticizing looks appealing

>>7726478
Let us know how you go. If you find overhand too difficult, there are wrist straps that might help.

>>7726471
Now it's time to post your work

I LOVE MY INTUOS 3!
I LOVE DRAWING FROM THE SHOULDER AND ELBOW!
I HATE SCREENS!
>this post brought to you by the good posture club

>>7726490
I left for a while and no takers, huh? Seems like the surest way to shut down a thread is to try and get someone to draw.

>>7726673
>these are the people calling pros begs

>>7726691
Are you talking about yourself or the people not drawing at all? I'm not calling Soejima-san a /beg/ at all but his method is a bit bizarre to me.

>>7726716
Oh ok, carry on then.

It should be illegal to insult Japanese artists. The Japanese have such beautiful fucking souls. My European genes suck and make me want to rope.

>>7726817
If you can recognize beauty you have a soul. Contemporary Europeans don't have a soul problem but a superiority/inferiority complex problem and rejection of beauty problem.

>>7726817
Only whites have souls.

>you CANNOT draw from the shoulder and elbow on a surface that can go up to 27''
meds

>>7727265
???
who are you talking to?

>>7727344
tablet posture schizo