Thread 7737955

Why do artists tend to go insane and/or break down mentally so often?
Does drawing make you go crazy?

>>7737955 (OP)
The reward ratio of art is so skewed that a lot of them become unable to cope. No matter what any artist tells you, there are external reasons why they draw, even if it's just posting to 4chinz for (you)s. When artists feel that nobody values their work, or that they aren't improving enough, they break.

Does doing stuff that is 100% in violation of your biological programming (hunt, fuck, make babies, eat juicy meat and talk to family around the fire, repeat) make you go crazy? I wonder.

Society is insane and artists actually have the capacity to see this. Most people are just NPCs and do what the tv tells them.

Also, art isn't really seen as work by most people. You can be a genius artist and people will still think you are a complete loser. The only thing they care about is money and social status. Talent is invisible to them.

>>7737959
cavemen liked to do paintings

>>7737955 (OP)
Why do you keep posting the same threads over and over you dumbfuck autist? Not enough attention from your parents

It's mentally exhausting to usher up your inner voice into images. It's same with all performers and entertainers, even politician and other public figures. Normies wouldn't understand.

>>7738044
Why are you monitoring /ic/ instead of drawing?

>>7737955 (OP)
Major part of art is deconstructing things to simplify and then represent them. I reckon people with an affinity for art are naturally good at this and end up applying the same psychological mechanism. Breaking everything apart to find meaning. Turning that sort of thinking inward. It can be good and rewarding but also bad and destruction. Or that's what I think anyways.

>>7737955 (OP)
artists are losers, always have been

twitter artists watching porn all day so they can draw a random character getting fucked for patreonbux is no different from leonardo studying cadavers all day so he could better portray some rich royal sponsor's inbred face

>>7737955 (OP)
that's kind of a funny question. I guess you could say because it's a field of passion which is more emotional. the same can be said with music and the other arts.
but a banker or some other nerdy job can also just as easily go crazy right?

humans hate failing but to become good at art you must fail repeatedly for a long time
i think that can break the mind a bit

>>7737965
I wonder. I feel arists have a higher than average NPC count.

Art is different from other hobbies. First, getting good at art is extremely hard. It requires a lot of practice *and* intelligence. Most will get filtered and maybe broken by that alone. The second reason I think might be due to a lack of recognition for your work. Pouring your heart, time and energy into something, only for it to fall into the void can't be good for your mental health. The third and maybe biggest reason: most artists have other issues unrelated to art. Loneliness, financial problems, mental health problems... I think art ends up attracting a lot of people that are already broken or bound to break sooner or later.

>>7737955 (OP)
It's a combination of isolation and being a creative type. Drawing isn't for extroverts, you gotta be a recluse/hermit like Ditko.

I'm happy that I used to be a bit of a gamer, so I have no problem locking in on completely meaningless activities that the boomer-stacy complex looks down upon.

>>7738127
>isolation
/thread

>>7737959
Cavemen painted. It's the cubicle wagies who should be going nuts.

>>7737955 (OP)
I think it's the reverse. Being crazy makes you draw, or rather crazy people are more likely than sane people to stick with drawing.

If I stop now, then my mom was right.

>>7738115
confirmation bias from being on the internet too damn long, dog.

>>7738127
Finding massive success while being practically invisible is almost impossible now. I am jealous that he and Watterson are able to do that.

>>7737959
>100% in violation of your biological programming (hunt, fuck, make babies, eat juicy meat and talk to family around the fire, repeat) make you go crazy?
Wagies don't hunt, they're afraid of women because of #MeToo and Tinderhoes are quitting so they don't fuck, marriages are low and divorces are high so they don't make babies, they're vegan so no meat, let alone juicy, individualism is on the rise so no family gatherings around the fire, repeat.
No wonder "bullshit jobs" did a lot of damage to wagies mental health but we're talking about artists here, the weirdos that paint birds in the wild, fuck in orgies like 1960s hippies and smoke anything withint brush distance.

>>7738205
Ditko didn't get rich off his work on Spiderman. Stan Lee took all the credit and Ditko was living in poverty.

Being an artist means you are either some kind of genius who are always crazy and insane, or you are going insane from doing the same thing over and over again and never improving. You can't learn being good at art. You either can do it or not. And those who can't do it will have mental breakdowns.

>>7738446
I cant believe people worshipped that asshole... damn...

>>7737955 (OP)
romanticizing mental illness and drug/alcohol use to destress, topped with inconsistant sleep and voluntary isolation for long periods of time. to get to the higher tiers and not off yourself you just have to be built different

>>7738446
This anon is right, Stan Lee did this shady stuff to almost all his artists.
>>7738492
That's a common tale in the capeshit biz, there's also Bob Kane that didn't credit Bill Finger (and Jerry Robinson) for their contributions to the Batman franchise like his costume, his villains, his sidekick..

>>7737955 (OP)
That's because many of the fags you see having a melty are underaged or in their early 20's, and quite possibly get too much interaction if they're big enough. Actually if you go on xitter and leddit you'll see tons of schizos sperging and posting the dumbest takes. Not only artists

>>7738955
>Bob Kane that didn't credit Bill Finger (and Jerry Robinson) for their contributions to the Batman franchise like his costume, his villains, his sidekick..
Bob created the batman, the guy wearing red in picrel, but 99% of his mythos was created by Bill and Jerry.

>>7738964
>guy wearing red in picrel

>>7738446
>>7738492
>>7738965
BTW Ditko created the Spider-Man iconic look too, not Stan Lee. Stanley just chose it over Jack Kirby's Spidey design

>>7738955
Stan Lee did this shady stuff to almost all his artists.
tell me more anon
Very interested, ngl

>tfw I value my sanity
I'm ngmi aren't I

>>7738106
source of the capture?

>>7739122
It's from an enako video. Enako the cosplayer

>>7739153
Man, this girl used to look so good when she was younger. I hate whatever devil told her to "fix" her teeth and slim down

>>7737955 (OP)
I drawn for 34 years, and still have not gain world recognition, in fact, I barely make a living with my art. But I am grateful, grateful to be able to keep doing art. I think it is that feeling of gratefulness, which I sometimes have to remind myself of, it is that feeling that kept me sane. Appreciate what little you have and make art. That art feels more valuable to me, the time and effort required to make it. All good vibes

>>7737955 (OP)

mental illness is a prerequisite for learning how to do art. you have to be willing to sit down and focus on one task for hours at a time, and be able to do that every single week if you want to keep your volume up. you have to be willing to burn through whatever free time you have on the weekend when not wage-slaving on weekdays. you get no rest at all unless you're doing art well enough to not need a day job, sacrificing whatever social life you could otherwise have. art is for autists.

>>7737955 (OP)
>Does drawing make you go crazy?
I'm sure there's elements that do so, but I'd also argue that art just attracts crazy people in general. I'm sure there's something about the prestige of being an artist, and the ability to express yourself in unique ways, that attracts such people.

It's also something a lot of... "underdeveloped" people are attracted to, because of cartoons and such, so you end up with people like chris-chan.

>>7738446
Was he living in poverty? I believe he always had an office separate from his home that he rented out, and that he would be receiving royalties for his prior work, which is still basically the most celebrated in spiderman's run, even if he didn't receive a co-creator title.

As for Stan Lee, I think he dicked a lot of people over, but I don't necessarily think he was a bad guy either, it was just an new-ish industry where questions of who created what could be hard to answer because such scenarios hadn't legal precedent.
We can say that the artists were obviously co-creators now, but that's likely because we're both biased (as artists) and because we're parroting the opinions we've heard through osmosis.
Were we blank slates and heard about these scenarios when they happened, we may have very different opinions.

Stan Lee was in the unenviable position of being the patient zero for such authorship claims, as well as being both a creator himself, and a thorough company man.
I think he likely knew from the beginning that all the co-authorship claims were true, but Lee needed to also protect the interests of Marvel - and that meant not giving an inch, and only having it taken.

To give an idea of how complicated this shit can be; authors are now demanding co-authorship for writing on characters they never created, because they wrote aspects of of said character that came to define them.
Do they deserve that co-authorship? Opinion seems quite split, and this was likely the case back in the day with Ditko and Kirby.

>>7737955 (OP)
Too much sitting. Not good for the soul.

>>7738100
artists need to constantly struggle with finding the balance of wanting to express yourself and then realizing how much of that is rejected

>>7737965
This.
See >>7728577

>>7737955 (OP)
long journeys with no definite end can make some people go insane

>>7738127
>>7738135
Yeah I say its mostly this. For artists that are forced to make it on their own and arent big from the get go with like teams to work with you end up being by yourself most of the time, and in order to get shit done odds are you NEED to be alone. I dont think artists are inherently crazy, I mean I just think of like the old Disney animators, they were the most basic ass goofballs white collar motherfuckers out there, you hardly ever hear the "tragic damaged artist" coming out of that environment cause they were a team, but you see the lonely fucks out here who dont have a good group of people around them go nuts all the time. Like even though my family annoys the shit out of me while Im working on stuff Im glad I have people around me who care

>>7737955 (OP)
I started crazy, I have the advantage

I love drawing but I don't want to draw. My brain would rather procrastinate and do nothing instead of just DRAW.

>>7741075
Then actually spend some time doing nothing, until you get tired of that and start wanting to draw.

>>7741134
I did that for 5 years

>>7741187
You actually spent 5 years doing actually nothing like a monk?
Or you mean that you did nothing useful (but did non-useful things) for 5 years?

Idk but to me art is like this endless compulsion that I can never satisfy. It’s pretty hard to realize I’m going to spend thousands of hours of my life chasing a conclusion I will never reach.

Social isolation and mental retardation

drawing doesn't get easier. If it takes you 2 hours to draw an anime girl, and you work hard for a year.... it'll still take you 2 hours to draw an anime girl. She will just look better. You still spent 2 hours of grueling effort at your limit to try and draw something great. Its like in an RPG where enemies scale up with you, you never get to actually experience being strong or skilled. You're always fighting for your life.

Real artists will not half-ass their art or draw things they think are trite and boring, they'll always push themselves.

>>7742676
>drawing doesn't get easier
Uh, but it does? What are you doing man
I used to need hours to draw one generic anime girl, now I can do it in minutes.
That's just how it goes, speed comes with practise

>>7742746
So you draw a generic anime girl in minutes and then stop for the rest of the day?

>>7737959
Art and its appreciation are uniquely Human. I find solice in this.

>>7742771
>humans are the only ones who appreciate human art
Hmm...

Also, not really the same thing, but bears seem to have a similar appreciation for beauty as humans.

>>7742771
Oh really? Then explain this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMjr8MsB1qo
You're right if you're comparing organic lifeforms to AI though. One can feel, one can't.

>>7742762
No, I draw a lot of them several times of the day, naked; the rest of the day I'm cooming.
It's peak productivity.

>>7742932
>>humans are the only ones who appreciate human art
>Hmm...
Did we survey animals to come to this conclusion?

>>7743511
I just showed my cat some of my /fag/ posts and gif related was its reaction

>>7737955 (OP)
>Why do artists tend to go insane and/or break down mentally so often?
Wifwolf waifus don't exist IRL

Artists don't demonstrably break down any or much more often than anyone else OP, they're probably just more visible. Would you really notice when Janet from the 200 person Zoom meetings stops coming to work because she went on a binge and didn't mentally come back? Or when half your coworkers are on heroine just to keep it together? How many of us have the "fun" (or unfun) drunk uncle who is really just an alcoholic on the verge of an hero every time he doesn't have a buzz?

>>7737955 (OP)
I tried killing myself long before picking up the pencil

>hey can you draw [obscure weird character from an autistic fandom]
>hey can you make her ass bigger and more wobbly
>hey can you turn her around slightly which means you have to redraw the entire thing from scratch?
>hey can you remove all that appeal you added so she looks gruesome and nobody but me will like it?

>>7744213
that's a you problem for doing porn t b h

>>7737955 (OP)
social media is 90% of the issue. It makes you death to your own artistic voice unless you get lucky and puts you in what you think is a competition but it actually a lottery.

>>7738135
Dealing with retards will make you go crazy way faster.

>>7738135
Honestly the thing that always hit me the hardest was lack of money, not loneliness. I struggle with making ends meet and it takes me forever to fund my hobbies. I think I could've made money drawing porn but I didn't get into art to draw dicks and assholes so economically speaking it's a net negative. Now that the economy is shit I am really struggling, stressing about money all the time. I was never someone who thinks about monetizing so having money on my mind is really something that wears me away.

>>7740504
They should just take a leaf from the modern American business handbook and collectively feed the masses shit until they're used to it.

>>7743752
>Artists don't demonstrably break down any or much more often than anyone else OP, they're probably just more visible
They do. Read this.

drawing requires effort, every time you draw you're putting a piece of your soul into what you draw. That wears down on people if they can't replenish their energy properly.

>>7737955 (OP)
This is mostly from the feedback loop of plugging your ability to survive into the opinion of strangers. This also affects people who live off tips.
If you do a piece and it's received poorly, you take the triple hit of the threat of starvation, social ostracizing, and the cognitive dissonance of something you assigned value to being deemed worthless.
On top of all that, you have to constantly come up with new shit when everything's been done.
You need to be a hack or a machine.
Also, if you're successful, you get exposed to the globohomo Epstein crowd and that will break your brain. One way or another you'll learn some shit that shatters your illusions. That's never good.

>>7743943
But did you try killing yourself with a pencil?

>>7749385
>Also, if you're successful, you get exposed to the globohomo Epstein crowd and that will break your brain.
What does this mean

>>7739741
I find it funny that people on /ic/ are so brainrotten and lazy than "focusing on a single thing" is somewhat related to being mentally ill. The mental gymnastics these people do to not draw. You can dedicate a lot of your free time to something you love and still have a gf, friends and a family life. I do. I also go to the gym and do kickboxing and have for the longest time. I just don't play videogames or partake in other slop consuming activities. Just draw man.

I tried producing a comic by drawing in pencil,scanning it into Photoshop, and processing them into recyclable bits. These I used to assemble panels, and experiment as I made them.

Drawing. Scanning. Processing, which means isolating the image by erasing everything else, alone in its own layer of the PSD. Then playing with the shapes, the contrast,the sharpness. I call it 2D sculpture, building a facade.

All of this is time consuming and tedious as hell. And I was blessed with an easy commute at my 6 night a week graveyard shift grocery job,but I was going crazy from isolation. So I shopped around and found an interesting avatar chat program called Second Life, and it was instantly captivating to me. A medium unto itself, all inworld things made by inworld players.

>>7749491
that he's terminally online and delusional

>>7749669
How do you relate to other guys without playing videogames? It's all men under 40 do honestly (if they're not lifting or watching movies or whatever).

>>7749669
going to the gym is not a hobby nor does it require thought like drawing does. Its actually just as much slop as video games.

>>7749727
Hey you're still around. Good.

>>7749386
of course! why i didn't think of this sooner?

>>7737955 (OP)
its the other way around. the insane end up liking to draw. schizophrenics become creative minds, loners with social anxiety can live their fantasies, narcissists can get easy self-worth by fishing for compliments and so on.

drawing is taking longer and longer for me the better I draw. When I was /beg/ it might take me 2 hours to draw an anime woman, but now I can do it in 20 minutes lets say. But I can't just post a 20 minute drawing online, it has to be higher value than that, so I put in 2 hours of turd polishing and its worse than it started. If I can't draw something good in 30 minutes, no amount of time will fix it.

>>7737955 (OP)
once you learn the fundamentals, drawing stops being about skill. It becomes 100% expression and soul, and you can't grind or improve that. When you max out your stats and draw as good as will ever draw, the only bottleneck is your motivation and drive, so if you haven't made it yet then you know its not your skill but your personality that's the problem.

And then you are forced to look at people who spent less time drawing than you, with worse fundamentals, get more love and attention from the world simply because their style happens to be more likeable. at the end of the day, it really is just genes.

>>7737955 (OP)
I've been doing commissions non stop for 6 months
i'm almost insane

>>7749491
>>7750282
That's right goy. The fine art world isn't a money laundering scheme. Stop with the antisemitism. There was no pedophile blackmail ring tied to a known mossad asset that involved a plurality of famous creative types. Don't listen to this guy, goy. All those people with financial influence on art and culture are totally normal people. There's nothing at all strange going on. It's all a cohencidence!

>>7751697
take your meds

>>7750283
I am older and have few lifelong friends who are not normies. We hang out, talk about interesting stuff such as books movies, artpieces, etc. Videogames are ok I guess but I would advise young people to partake in them so much. I teach a lot of zoomers and they rarely play videogames. The ones that do are kissless losers. You should strive to be athletic, strong, well read and artistic. They complement eachother. The stereotype of the tranime artist fag always renders the worst type of coomer degenerate loser art. Be better.

>>7750470
Yeah, sitting on a dark room brainrotting while playing useless games is the same as learning a competitive martial art, making your body stronger and training your inner discipline. Zoomers are quite literally brain rotten retards.

>>7743264
Professional artists spend hours if not days on anime girls... just saying... maybe you are shit and never improved?

>>7750470
>>7752285
What exactly is bad about playing video games as long as it doesn't take over your life?

>>7752635
Why are you assuming my drawings are bad? Discriminating against coomers, in this day and age?
>>7752677
>as long as it doesn't take over your life?
You can't always tell whether you've crossed that line.

>>7750482
Not really.
Wife has been sick for months and is only now struggling back to work. Caring for her has left me little time to sleep, let alone draw. But I will see this thing through. A bit more in any case.

some days I'm itching to draw, other days I get sick just looking at my tablet sitting there.

i wanna post some of my stuff on here. but i'll worried the stuff i drew would be way too niche for peoples taste

>>7747993
>every time you draw you're putting a piece of your soul into what you draw
schizophrenic

>>7737955 (OP)
The ones that go insane are in validation cycle.
>obsess over numbers
>need to be liked, popular
>if someone criticizes or comments on their art it gets taken to heart or goes directly to their head

The best way to prevent this is by having a liason or independent wealth
>mangakas have editors or managers so they can concentrate on their art without getting affected by the opinions of strangers
>nepobabies and rich housewives draw and paint whatever the fuck they want bc it's not tied to survival or identity

>>7756497
you'll grow older and understand.

>>7737956
fpbp