Thread 7741462

anyone ever did a full roadmap from more beginner to more advanced. Starting from what's best to do for people who've never drawn?

>>7741462 (OP)
roadmaps don’t work because everything leads down a rabbit hole and opens up new challenges

>>7741467
also 99% of people never reach the end of big courses

closest I've seen:

You are going to learn "the fundamentals" for your whole life. Getting a ton in the beginning since you start from nowhere and after you've made that basis learning more and more before you die eventually still unsatisfied and feeling you still had much to learn.

In that line the idead is that you know about the fundamentals in a overview way to know where you are getting yourself into before diving deep in it.

To that end watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4ts22XFsw AND https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax130yILbw0&list=PLVgLT-e3jXPDgeED0pD0BPq8kY1VAZAGa

More on ABOUT THE FUNDAMENTALS (AND HOW TO PRACTICE THEM):
-Beginner's Guide to Art Fundamentals Full Series by Forrest Imel
-Fundamentals Course - A guide for starters in art by Hue Teo

DON'T do Drawing Fundamentals with Thomas Fluharty (Schoolism) it's AWFUL

Drawing Fundamentals Phase I & II aren't as bad but aren't as helpful either, since they pretty much just say: "that's what you should have already known before starting our program".

>I'd go the line of:
The Art & Science of Drawing > Absolute Beginners > Beginner Guide to Drawing > Essentials of Realism with Jonathan Hardesty > Art-Wod Beginner Course > Perspective by Marshal Vandruff > CGMA's FUNDAMENTALS of perspective (if you can find it) > DrawABox > The Art & Science of FIGURE Drawing > Dynamic Sketching with Patrick Ballesteros / Sorie Kim / Peter Han > Drawing Manual > Hot to Draw > Med's Map [It will have become available by the time you get to it.]

>>7741462 (OP)
Get a sketchbook. Draw everything you see. Finish a sketchbook every week.
This is the only fundamentals you need.

Basically beginners like you lack hand-eye coordination and visual library.

Start with basic shapes irl if you want. Like tissue boxes (box), paper roll (cylinder), ball, etc. But it’s not necessary and can get boring.

Stop collecting courses and books. Stop copying anime and manga. Stop drawing photos.

>>7741474
>Finish a sketchbook every week.
how many pages are we talking

>>7741474
been doing simple figures everyday for years and they still look like shit, sooner or later you'll need someone to teach you draftmanship, perspective, character design, digital tools, whether it's tutorial or a well structured course, you're not going to figure out years of knowledge all by brute force doing the same everyday without knowing what you're doing, as if you'll become an engineer with practising plus or minus arithmetics and playing with magnets will teach you Maxwell equations on electromagnetism, quantum mechanic and you'll design your own solar panels. Get real education exists for a reason.

>>7742763
pyw

>>7742766
My point, I still suck even though I've been trying to do frameworks everyday for years

>>7741462 (OP)
>anyone ever did a full roadmap
Anon, there are so many...
Go to this thread and read the sticky:
>>7738573
What you need depends on what you want to do obviously, there is no perfect strategy, just do what works for you; this generic question gets asked so much, just go to the beg thread...
>>7741467
That's accurate too.

>>7742805
Ok, what was you goal with this and where do you think you went off?

>>7742862
let's see,I usually try to do frameworks from imagination so I can do them naturally, but I'm still not on a stage in which I can think of how would turn those on characters, so I also do studies of characters I like, but I'm not that good at measuring proportions either, mine looks much wider and less thin/stylized...

>>7742805
Drawing those X’s would help you map the proportions. Leaving them out made it much harder.

Grid method, mirroring, upside down contour drawing, anything that trains accuracy would help.

>>7741462 (OP)
I use New Masters tracks as reference.

>>7741472
>before you die eventually still unsatisfied and feeling you still had much to learn.
I'm satisfied with everything after 1 year of my ongoing /beg/tardation. If drawing and learning isn't inherently fun for you then that's on your mindset

>>7741472
>DrawABox
>in the middle, no less
well, OP deserves it if he gets that far in your rec

>>7742805
based hxh anon. your superior taste will take you far, you should fix your proportions after a copy attempt tho (use a scanner or a piece of tracing paper).

>>7741462 (OP)
Thinking there is any kind of concrete 'path' or 'roadmap' that you just follow to the end to become good is a huge beg trap, and falling for it is a good indicator that you are probably too autistic to be an artist

>>7742805
Anime is a noob trap, never drawn it before but it seems deceptive in its difficulty and the majority of noobs lamenting their lack of skills seem to be stuck on anime. There’s a reason why manga/anime studios hire people who graduated art school or have impressive portfolios outside of anime.

>>7743514
Realism is difficult, too. Then what are we supposed to draw? Cartoons?

>>7743514
>There’s a reason why manga/anime studios hire people who graduated art school
That's not true at all, the vast majority of anime animators start fresh from HS and the rest to start after going thru a 2 year anime vocational school, like Yoyogi Animation Gakuin, only a tiny percentage of them went to a real art school.
Most manga artists are either self taught or go to a manga school, like Hiro Mashima, tho he's a dropout, very few mangaka go to a real art school like Kentaro Miura that did fine arts.
I wonder why so many anons in this board like to straight up lie about stuff they know nothing about.

>>7743535
Realism is less difficult than cartoons and manga, if you find it all to be difficult and frustrating either stick it out until you don’t or find a new hobby
>>7743546
Eh, the OG artists did I’m sure, but ya I did make that up

>>7743546
they're literally recruiting randos on twitter these days

>>7743556
>the OG artists did I’m sure
And you would be wrong again, the OG manga and anime guys copied American comics, Disney movies, other manga, life drawing and used old how to draw books like Loomis and Preston Blair.
>>7743610
>they're literally recruiting randos on twitter these days
True and most of them are self-taught webgen, some are teens still at school.
I can't blame them, their industry is growing too fast and the demand far surpass the supply so they're desperate.

>>7741462 (OP)
I am made a more in general direction kind of plan
until early intermediate
i take it easy, but i kinda wanna squeeze out all the exercises and studies I can into the list

>>7743418
That chick on HxH turns me one since I was 12 and can't help but do studies of her from time to time, funny how one of the shonens with less fanservice I've seen and full of bromance and pretty boys ended up having one of my fav crushes that had too little screentime or relevance...

most people here are stuck around 3-4

>>7745150
I don't even know what's a layer, I'm level 0, most videos on digital always assume you know what you're doing at the start haven't seen any good absolute beg one that starts at the very start when you just installed and turned on the program....

>>7745150
brb wormholing myself from level 1 to level 8 by appealmaxxing and shitposting on twitter

>>7741462 (OP)
I use >https://noahbradley.com/dont-go-to-art-school/
As reference, sort of roadmap.

>>7741474
>Stop drawing photos
Why not?

Im wondering between starting with one of 3 pretty lenghty courses, and I want to commit to one of them:
1 - New Masters Academy / NMA - Beginner's Guide to Drawing with Joshua Jacobo
2 - Proko drawing basics
3 - Brent Eviston series

is one of those particulary better or worse than the others? Or maybe you can reccomend something similiar instead?

>>7745954
its not drawing, its re-drawing. it doesnt teach you to translate 3 dimensional objects into 2 dimensional representation, which is the most important part of drawing.

>>7746098
It's personal preference. Those are fine. Just try the first couple videos of each and see which instructor you like the best and then do their course.

>>7746098
I dont know how /fit/ you are but, just like working out, a beginner can get results with any course almost. I agree on the sentiment that you should watch a couple videos and see whose instruction you like the best. If none of them suit you, you should also consider Peter Han's or Charles Hu's Dynamic Sketching, and if you are too lazy to get the videos for that, Drawabox.

>>7742805
I kneel.

>>7746098
They're all solid starting points so you can't go wrong with any of them, but my personal pick would be Proko because he teaches in a fun way while the other 2 are a bit more serious, but if you don't mind that then go with NMA, or even Brent.

>>7743514
>anime is a noob trap

True. The style is meant to be easy to draw because manga artists needed a way to crank out 20 of art pages a day. So people will draw the same anime characters over and over and wonder why they look flat and shitty—because they never learned WHY the characters are drawn that way. They’re basically sticking Anime Eye #7 on the Anime Girl Face #3, but have no concept of rendering, perspective, or even basic construction. So people get stuck doing that for years thinking if they just draw their OC 2,000 times, it’ll one day look good.

>>7746125
>I kneel

What do you mean, that shit looks good to you or kneel laughing at how bad it is?

>>7746398
pyw

>>7741462 (OP)
The sticky of this board you dumb mf

>>7746814
please, your women.

what would an ideal roadmap look like if I mainly just want to learn to draw cute girls and cute clothes?

>>7743546
plenty of mangaka go to art school (in recent decades). but their work is higher quality and people in the west tend not to read it, even in communities like /a/. it's often obvious when you're reading someone with a fine arts background.
originally that wasn't the case. kids would read Tezuka in the weekly comic, decide they wanted to become mangaka too, and start submitting 4koma for the readers' manga competitions, usually have something published while they're in middle school and the chance to start their own series by the time they'd have finished high school. see A Drifting Life for what this was like.

does anyone else do a quick breakdown of the subject with ms paint

>>7747531
No. Who told you to do that?

>>7747536
I told me to do that

>>7741462 (OP)
I think a good roadmap is to just really study some good drawing books from beginning to end.
Any Drawing book worth its paper is going to go over the most basic stuff, and what you feel you're missing out on can be addressed with another well regarded book.

It's likely why so many rave on about Loomis, because he's written several very good, well regarded books that essentially cover most aspects of drawing, so you could do far worse than just studying through all his guides as your 'roadmap' sorts - even the general order of his releases is a fairly decent way of going through them.

But really, any decent singular book will do wonders all the same. If you really need a starting point, and Loomis doesn't interest you because you're more into cartoons (and personally I think cartoons are the best starting point, as you're drawing simple shapes to construct characters - there's likely a reason Loomis starts with them too), I'd recommend Preston Blair's Cartoon Animation book.

>>7747553
I did fun with a pencil whole, then some of Mikeymegamega tutorials, I still can't "think by myself" I just did their stuff, copied them and understood what they were saying to some point, though I'm not in a stage in which whn I try to do the same on my own to get the same results, if I try to come with my own stuff based on the stuff I did is either a cheap copy too literal, or it just looks like shit with no real sense of volume or anything

>>7749646
>I still can't "think by myself" I just did their stuff
>I'm not in a stage in which whn I try to do the same on my own to get the same results
Sounds to me like you need to train your creative muscles, and practice drawing your own stuff rather than just copying or studying.
There aren't too many good guides on this problem, that I know of, but there is Bert Dodson's Keys to Drawing with Imagination. Give that a look and see if that would help you.

>>7741467
this. Getting better at things is just dealing with constant roadblocks. You are going stop dead in your tracks until you feel comfortable with a concept and then you're going to realize you got worse at something else so you need to turn back and study old things again, and then you will skip ahead and learn something new, and then have to go back and study step 1 again...

>>7741474
The Great Naoki Saito says you're full of shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uYCRwstfq0

>>7751850
One-trick pony lol
bro went to grifting in youtube after realizing he can't do art anymore

>>7741474
The dudebro Tate "advice" giver