Thread 7744167

Memes aside, is there any proof that some people are naturally better at art than others?
By "talent" I mean an experience boost, like you level up faster, not a magical gift from God.
I don't mean theories, I mean facts, like someone that did art for 10 thousand hours and still sucked at it.
I've been drawing since 2019 and I'm still a /BEG/ so I'm inclined to believe talent is real but maybe I'm just a lazy bum.

>>7744167 (OP)
You can draw for 9999 hours and still be at 5 year old level if you dont practice correctly and you dont know what youre doing.
From 2008 to 2018 I NEVER stopped drawing, but I never improved, why? Because I wasnt practicing correctly, I didnt try new things, I just did the same thing over and over, it was fun? Absolutely, but the facts are there. It was after 2018 that started to see improvements because I started to take things more seriously, and now I am 6/10 rather than a 3/10.
Creative endeavors have nothing to do with IQ, IQ is for pattern recognition and things like math and science, with art you can feel your way through, provided you have discipline, interest and you know what youre doing.
Talent is a meme, people use to justify their laziness, plenty of people out there start at different ages and they still find moderate success, but it requires effort, something a lot of people dont want to make.
Talent is as real as you want it to be, and I dont want it to be real, so its not for me.

>>7744167 (OP)
Sure. People have different brains after all. Also depends on the methods you use. You can't really set up controls to quantify the presence of talent.

>>7744167 (OP)
Talent is just an excuse.

>>7744543
Talent is real but anyone can learn to draw.

>>7744575
>Asking AI if you have what it takes to be able to create art
Holy NGMI

>>7744167 (OP)
No, you get good by consistently studying and practicing. Of course, if you mindlessly draw the same shit over and over again without leaving your comfort zone, you won't improve at all. "Talent" is a dumb excuse.

>>7744575
Retard trusting whatever ai feeds him lmfao

>>7744167 (OP)
While the NGmi are pontificating this puzzling question, the gmi are drawing

>>7744167 (OP)
Do tall “people” exist that dominate basketball?

Does air bud care?

>>7744174
What did you do 2018 until now that makes you say that you've improved? Study any certain books or masters?

>>7744682
infinitely more trustworthy than /ic/ucks thougheverbeit y'know lil broskie? you faggot slut?

>>7744167 (OP)
>I mean an experience boost, like you level up faster
Can you niggers conceptualize anything that's not a fucking video game?

>>7744543
>talent is an excuse
>post text stating talent is a thing and there's no way to tell if you have it or if things will ever click
hmmmmmmmmmm

>>7744167 (OP)
There isn't a magical art gene, if that's your definition of talent.
The way I'd describe talent, that is a talent that is real, is a combination of predispositions and past experiences. For example, someone with good hand-eye coordination or good observation skills will improve much faster than someone without.
Even with these however, it is possible to be an artist for thousands of hours and see no improvement. This kind of stagnation in my experience comes from 1 of 3 types of people:
-Absolute retards. This is a good chunk of this board, literal low IQ brainlets who are incapable of listening to advice or critique, and will continue to shit out the same flawed slop for life.
-Drawing lovers who don't study. This is most of tumblr/deviantart. People who've been drawing since they were 8, yet by 20 their art hasn't improved at all. This is because despite drawing a lot, they never bother to reflect on their mistakes nor seek learning to improve, they just keep drawing in their comfort zone.
-Lastly, we have the hoarders of knowledge. People who've gone through hundreds of videos and courses, yet maybe draw once every couple weeks. They tend to have high observation and theory, but their hand is untrained and can't put that knowledge to use.
TLDR: draw a lot, accept criticism, and also seek to learn and apply what you learn. If you can balance all 3, as long as you don't have the IQ of a primate, you'll improve.

>>7744167 (OP)
>experience boost
just draw already you autistic fuck

>>7744888
Don't talk to me, npc

>>7744167 (OP)
its a skill you can learn. you just lazy and useless fat fuck that posted weeb trash, which shows low iq and degenerate mind that gravitates to lowest common denominator. an hero best tip.

>>7745167
>it's a skill you can learn
you are genetically low IQ which makes it harder to learn skills
so talent exists

>>7744859
Think. Unironically, just think.
Before that I just did whatever, I didnt even copied references, from 18' onwards I started thinking, disecting references to undertand them, disecting the body to understand it using myself as reference and using other references, disecting clothes and backgrounds to understand them, in short, I stopped going into autopilot mode.
>Study any certain books or masters?
I hate reading, my ADHD autistic ass cant concentrate on an art book for more than 10 seconds because its too boring and mathematical, I did however took people that I like and started disecting their stuff, again, THINKING.

>>7744167 (OP)
A lot of of "naturally" talent people came from a background related their field. They got parents and an enviornment that allows them to be good at what do they do. Like if you came from an artists background, you'll probably be more observant and creative-thinking because you experienced those on a daily basis just by growing up in an art friendly household.

>>7745129
*rapes you*

talent is 100% real and i have it but the tradeoff was being permanently mentally ill so not really worth it

>>7744167 (OP)
Yeah, it’s real but it isn’t just “one thing” that can be isolated. Highly skilled people (in any discipline really) have high IQ, an attraction to that discipline and an environment and support structure that nurtures that talent until it’s self sustaining. Plus the drive to actually improve at their job/craft/skill. Drawing is also a social activity which is why so many people here fail to get it- they think they can scribble away in their room alone drawing boxes instead of learning from those who came before, getting crit and being guided by a mentor.

>>7744167 (OP)
Yeah, sports are the best example, art is not different

Talent exists, but you just have to figure out what your limit is and go with that. Not everybody can draw everything but anybody can draw to a certain extent. Just don't have goals out of your league

>>7744644
>>7744682
AI is far more reliable than d/ic/ks like you two but sure here's a blackpill from a more "reputable" source:
>Practice doesn't always make perfect when it comes to becoming the next Mozart, a new study suggests. >Researchers compared pairs of identical twins, and found that no matter how hard one twin had practiced up until that point in their life, the other twin who had practiced much less still had an equal level of ability in certain musical skills.
>This may be because some aspects of musical talent are built into the genes, the researchers said.
>https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna55817383
>https://www.livescience.com/7950-music-improves-brain-function.html

>>7744167 (OP)
Talent is real. The talent of being able to sit down and practice and not be an ADHD freak.

>>7744620
Remember this cope the next you see a black artist being better at drawing than (you)

>>7745014
Go back to 2nd grade, your reading comprehension is shit.

>>7745460
This reminds me of Cobat. Goddamn that nigger is good in what he does.

>>7745460
Did not want to directly respond to bait like that but i really wanted to say what you said anon as a brown person lol
Its not about crap like genetics, just skill and experience. That simple

>>7745478
>duuuuude, yeah, talent is real but like just don't think about your limits dude, like just don't consider your capacity for progress in a lifelong pursuit maaaaaannnnn
dreadfully low iq

>>7745490
good cope. Helps in life.

>>7745278
pyw, tho

Being born good at art is fairytale shit and im surprised many people believe in it and drink the koolaid to death over it. Making it about race is also a crazy egotistical cope

>>7745460
nigger your dad was white shut the fuck up

>>7745688
>Being born good at art is fairytale shit
Only if you're a history, and science denier.
Study some art history then you will read about all the art prodigies that had amazing observation powers while still a child with zero art education, won all sorts of art contests while still a teen, and became legendary artists in their early 20s, totally not talent, just fairy tale BS, you totally could do it too anon.

Of course talent is real. Why wouldn't it be?
Just like people can be born retarded, be born with big fucking hands made for building, or be born with aphantasia, so can people be born with a naturally stronger mind's eye and observation skills.
But just because it exists, it doesn't mean you can't carve your own path in the same game. They just have a different starting point and different end potential. Your life experiences will give you the other edges you need versus the "talented".

>>7744727
Only worthwhile reply here. The only reason you faggots can't draw is because you will look for any reason to avoid actually drawing.
You little whiny bitch faggots.

>>7746104
Why are you so triggered? Projecting?
You're probably a talentless freak.

>>7745992
Also you never know if one day youll have a psychotic episode and start seeing shit

sometimes good artists will draw something with shit anatomy or composition, so it makes me wonder what it means to draw well. Do you have to focus and consciously draw well? Or is it natural when you have skill? How can a good artist let something like bad eye placement slip past them? Is drawing poorly easier than drawing well?

>>7745992
This is partially correct
>Good eye = Observation (Realism)
>Good hand = Line Quality
>Good brain = Learn Art Theory Fast
>Good face = Pretty Privilege (Lookism)
>Good body = Stamina to draw longer
>Good Mind = Mental Health
>Good parents = Support & Networking
>Good country = Education & Jobs
It doesn't matter if talent is real or not, the game been rigged from the start.

>>7745448
Thank god i have the variant of adhd that makes me unable to stop drawing lmfao

Yes, but who cares?

>>7746581
I have none of these but I will make it out of sheer spite for this universe.

>>7746997
this is the strongest GMI vibe in this thread

>>7745650
OK? You don't have to draw if you don't want to lmao.

>>7744543
>"You can learn the skills required for painting in the same way you can learn anything else you are strongly drawn to."

That's not the point of talent, It's about the effectivenes of your learning. Someone with "talent", or better genetic advantage for visual observation and fine motor skills will have an innate advantage and will be able to learn the same things in a shorter timeframe with less effort, than someone without a genetic predisposition. It also affects your possible ceiling/max potential.

Genetics affect all areas of your life, not just drawing.

Some people have to put in 10/10 effort to achieve 7/10 results.

You would be naive to blame a 70iq person for not being able to solve advanced algebra.

If you really tried and put in alot of effort, trying different methods and it still doesn't work out, don't blame yourself.
You werent born for it and it's not your fault.

I think people would be alot more at piece with themselves, instead of being gaslit all the time, where they think it's all their fault. This "Oh you can do everything in life you want, you just have to work really hard" is false and harmful for mental health. Hard work doesn't mean much, results do.
The work has to be effective

If your hard work doesn't amount to much, or less than you expected, you know where you stand.

>>7745201
NTA but how did you have the motivation to dissect and study artists you like but not reading? I have ADHD too but I'm the opposite, I can read art books but I absolutely cannot be bothered to do master studies like the apprentices of yesteryear did.

>>7747167
Talent is an excuse if you fail or if someone else wins. Just pure cope. You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

>>7747195
>didn't understand anything

plus lottery is pure luck(just like having good or bad genes), so bad anology for whatever case you're trying to make.

I've been drawing every day for 12 years. I've drawn out of my comfort zone. I've studied and followed a dozen courses and my art still sucks. Its all talent based. It pisses me off when people imply I'm not working hard enough when I work more than most people because I'm unemployed. Im just not smart enough.

>>7747228
pyw

>>7744174
>>7745201
this
you retards need to learn how to think

go read "drawing with the right side of the brain", and do some mindfulness training (not the mumbo jumbo mystical stuff)

I categorize myself into two stages of life,
one before I could think, and one after

it is not a concept you can put into words, you must feel it ("drawing with the right side of the brain" gives you a sneak peek)


reading youtube tutorials, guides, books, learning from teachers, all of these are sub-optimal, until you learn how to think

>>7747233
I draw furry porn and i have a following so no. But here's this.

>>7744174
>You can draw for 9999 hours and still be at 5 year old level

Proof?

>>7747236
Talent isn't rea...
My Apologize
how this talentless fucker talented than me? is there talented people among non-talented?

>>7747214
>plus lottery is pure luck(just like having good or bad genes), so bad anology for whatever case you're trying to make.
no, that's what makes it analogous.
whether or not you have win the genetic lottery (luck) to be talented at learning to draw is that same thing. you still have to work hard to unlock your skill potential (the action of buying a ticket).
like I said, blaming it all on talent for drawing, or talent for learning to draw is just an excuse.

>>7747242
Humans are different. Of course there's better non talented artists you retard. There's different shades of green too some brighter some darker. And there's a darker than and a lighter than.

>>7747246
its over
its all about talent

>>7744849
Being tall gives you an advantage but It doesn't make you "good"

>>7745944
Yes, and also remember that %99 of artist people likes are not those prodigies.

>>7744543
i know a person who learned at a crazy fast pace. but they were also obsessive about doing it.

is that talent?

>>7747263
Yes. Talent usually comes with interest

>>7747263
Who, post their work

>>7747250
the avg height in basketball is 6'8". that is LESS than 0.001% of the population for males. and its the avg for NBA. not the tallest. not the best players. not super stars. the fucking avg is a genetic lottery so small it is possible you go your entire life never seeing someone that tall in person ever unless you seek them out at some event like an nba game or in the old days a fucking circus for freak shows.

its so easy to make the nba that you have a 1 in 4 chance if you are 6'8" barring any other factors. you could be any race, any economics, any intelligence and it factors in all possible health outcomes. you can teach a 7' guy to stand and wave his arms and he is instantly the best defensive player in the league. the raptors literally did this with one of their players a few years back. never played basketball before and within a year was in the nba because he was tall. basketball is literally the lowest skill sport int eh world, especially at nba level where they pause all the time and walk around and dont play any defense anymore. players cant handle the load and just play offense now.

>>7747167
>Some people have to put in 10/10 effort to achieve 7/10 results.
True. And this website complains nonstop about the "slop" those 6/10 artists put out because the remaining 4/10 turns out to be social skills.

What pains me about talent is that the better someone is, the more likely he is to draw braindead slop instead of something cool. Wish I had a tenth of the skills of some people but I never envy what they're doing.

>>7747315
that has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with opportunity
you think you'd be the cool guy that draws his super niche cool taste, but if you had the ability to actually capitalize on your skills in an industry where you're lucky to even have a job, you'd be singing a different tune

>>7747317
I've thought about it in earnest and I doubt it. I could've taken a different route but I think I was happier to keep art as a hobby.
The thing is yeah opportunity is a thing but what I'm saying goes deeper than that, it's like a lot of people who have talent and progress at a very rapid pace without diminishing returns, which in turn fosters them to draw more and maybe ends up getting them a career in art, are also the kind of people whose life experiences are just videogames or TV shows. It makes sense cause no worldly person would sit down and draw for 10 hours a day but the tradeoff is that you have a lot of super skilled people these days who have nothing to say at all even in their personal work.

>>7744543
That’s rich coming from someone who is definitely talented. But not talented enough to be a great painter unfortunately.

>>7747324
"keeping art as a hobby" means nothing when you don't have the skill to make that a choice, that's like me "keeping weightlifting as a hobby", as if I had the ability to compete professionally while lamenting all the pros selling gay supplements and snake oil programs, as if I wouldn't be doing the same
that kind of mental masturbation is a dime a dozen with dabblers, it's easy being pure when nobody wants you

>>7747324
>It makes sense cause no worldly person would sit down and draw for 10 hours a day
also, this is extremely retarded and just shows you don't know shit about artists and are just going off of your headcanon
we literally have writings of artists tying themselves to masts at sea to study waves

>>7747331
>we literally have writings of artists tying themselves to masts at sea to study waves
what's the equivalent of this for the guy who only draws pokemon fanart in 2025?

>>7745460
I mean... Looking at how America is now, >>7744620 is very true. Imagine if they removed all blacks before ending slavery.

>>7747335
>reading comprehension

>>7744167 (OP)
>Is art talent real or not?
Yes its real
But sometimes its hard to know if (you) have it or not, or how talented are you. There is a time to grit your teeth and push ahead and there is also a time when you should just give up and cut your losses, or change your goal. Often no one can help you determine that.

>>7747236
Your art? I like it. Reminds me of my rabbit character, though I don't draw anything lewd with her.

>>7747167
>This "Oh you can do everything in life you want, you just have to work really hard" is false and harmful for mental health. Hard work doesn't mean much, results do.
Correct and most adults know this simple fact but plenty of underage and wo/menchildren on 4chan won't accept it.

>>7747353
Yes my art. Its shit.

>>7747378
...
I think you're just slightly delusional, like the /beg/ that thinks his art is acceptable, but in reverse.
The art is fine.

>>7747175
>how did you have the motivation to dissect and study artists you like but not reading?
>"Damn, this thing that this artist that I like made looks rad, I want to do something like that too"
>Try
>Fail
>"Why isnt this working? Must more blood be shed?"
>Stare at the drawing, start to see what the artist did in what places and how
>Copy it until I get a result I am good with
It also helps that I like to create stuff for the people I like, and I want that stuff to be GOOD, and if I want them to be GOOD I have to improve and put in effort. And of course, Im also autistic, like, genuinenly.
Reading doesnt do it for me because its boring, my ADHD doesnt let concentrate on things that are boring, watching pretty art and analyzing it its not boring, making a drawing is not boring, reading a book about the 9999 muscles of the human body is boring.
Ultimately, anon, we are different, what works for me doesnt work for you and viceversa, you have to do the stuff that works for you and not force yourself to use others methods.

>>7747237
Chris chan, anon.

>>7747315
Because if youre good, you want to monetize it, and the masses want porn and slop, not something cool.

>>7744167 (OP)
I love Japanese artists, they don't buy into hard work BS like westoids, not even battle shounen that talk about it all the time truly believe in it, the MC is always special somehow, be it genes or a monster sealed inside them, a character like Rock Lee will always lose to Sasuke...

>>7747470
KEKAROO

i'm talented at 2 things in this world (writing and art)
talent allows you to do 2 things very well: act as your own teacher, and learn from others at a rapid rate.

for acting as your own teacher, it means that every time you engage in whatever you're talented in, your brain automatically picks up on whatever you're doing poorly and gives you an easy solution.
for learning from others at a rapid rate, it means that a small bit of study allows you to absorb much of their ability.

talent is functionally like having an expert coach embedded into your brain telling you the right move to make at all times.

>>7744167 (OP)
Do it like Fujimoto, it's the best motivation to get better than talented artists.

>>7747470
That chapter triggered so many "hard workers" in the Kagurabachi fandom, it's the funniest shit to read their comments about muh hard work.

>>7744167 (OP)
Bakuman's about a duo of mangaka based on the Death Note duo trying to surpass a prodigy mangaka based on Oda, they're mogged thru the entire manga story, it hammer down the point that untalented hard workers will never beat a talented workaholic, it's a great life lesson, beautiful theme, perfect to teach a lesson to naive teenagers.

>>7744167 (OP)
just put the pencil to the paper bro

>>7747236
cute

>>7747236
Your art is adorable, congratz anon, but if it took you 12 years to reach that level then I believe in talent because you're way past the 10.000 hours rule.

>>7747550
>>7747544
>>7747388
Thanks. I wish I were better after 12 years though.

>>7746581
Nigger you retarded

>>7747646
Understandable...
Fuck, I almost typed some of that "just work harder" bullshit, its hard unprogramming yourself completely.
Do you have fun drawing though? Do you do it because you enjoy it? That's my personal issue, I can draw pretty ok, but I don't really find the process or end result satisfying enough to do it more.

>>7747315
Its because they're smar.t
If you go full talent mode people will get jealous of your skills and nobody will understand your work. You wont be popular and get paid as much. All those famous masterpieces you hear from famous composers were all considered slop by themselves. Each of them probably created of hundreds compostions but most of them wont get appreciated unless you go to school where they teach you how to understand the artistry behind them.

>>7747288
>the avg height in basketball is 6'8". that is LESS than 0.001%
Damn, that's literally my height.
Sometimes I wonder what would've happened if I had been born somewhere that wasn't the middle of bumfuck nowhere and in a family that actually cared and encouraged sports.
I do luv me some drawin', though

>>7747684
I'm not your father.

>>7747709
>I wonder what would've happened if I had been born somewhere that wasn't the middle of bumfuck nowhere and in a family that actually cared and encouraged sports.
>>7746581
I'm 100% right.

You need to be addicted to corn to be better at art and you need to have mental illness

>>7747948
this nigga is really tiktok self censoring on 4chan

>>7747410
I am so fucking sick of him being mentioned in this discussion. He has NOT drawn for that many hours you moron. He does not study, he does not grind, he draws a couple of times a year at most, whenever he happened to be struck by whatever serves his spastic mind for inspiration.
Also, are you seriously discounting the fact that he is a literal unironic retard?

>>7748014
i think it's a joke

>>7747685
I enjoy it when Im working on something turning out well.

>>7748014
>Chris made 10k in 2018 off his art
How many comics have you sold last year anon?

>>7745201
Good advice

>>7748280
Do you enjoy being retarded?

>>7748280
>Chris made 10k in 2018
isn't it depressing that being a total worm-eating lolcow can actually get you money, which is definitely hard to come by in this world, simply on the basis of having eyes on you on the basis of being loud and attention hungry. Then people wonder how crazy twitterites have so much leverage in actual industries

>>7748014
pyw

>>7748014
You're right, Mikufag's a better example of what a talentless hack can do.

>>7747315
I know some people who are really really good but they only draw once in a blue moon and spend all their time playing vidya or watching tv instead
That scared me off being a hobbyist

>>7747537
I love the reveal at the end of the anime that in his closet he has like 3 of 4 manga that he just drew in his spare time, while the main character duo gave everything they had for years to beat his main manga

>>7749934
Damn that's brutal, funny but cruel lmao.

the other day I was looking at the proko imagination shit and stumbled upon this /ic/ poster
from this point on this is how i see all talent-whiners
even if talent is real i shall never accept it, lest i turn into whatever the fuck this guy is

>>7750516
Guilt by Association fallacy

if being a good artist is a talent there's a chance that being a bad artist in itself is a talent

>>7750516
>even if talent is real i shall never accept it
It's proven to be real by multiple research papers but it's a multiplier, not a magic power. A talented person base and ceiling is higher, and they learn faster so if they work hard on top of it they're unbeatable.
Anyone can learn any skill to a mediocre level thru hard work but only talented people that work hard become the best.

>>7748471
Let's not be jealous of him ffs. The only reason he hasn't killed himself is because he's literally too retarded to realise how pathetic and pointless his life is

>>7750747
fr
being jealous of a dude who raped his mom?
lol

Talent isn't real, but mental energy is. If you can draw for at least 3 hours a day without brain fog or headaches then you are capable of improving.
People who just slept all day and shut down when they had to hunt, would just die in the past now were stuck here forced to pray taxes and do this humiliation ritual called society

>>7750585
I have nega-talent, i need to fight against the flow of my body to actually do anything

>>7750956
>Talent isn't real
You don't have it but I do, I have so much talent that I reached Morpho tier in just 2 days of study and practice, while (you) guys stay in /BEG/ for years.

talent is making your art look like it came out naturally. Everything I draw looks like I don't know how to draw and I spent several hours painfully drawing it.

>>7747402
once you make a drawing that you deem "success worthy" what do you next? Do you just do it over and over again to ingrain it into memory? Or do you pick another drawing of the same artist you aspire to be and dissect that one next? What happens when you run out of all the artists work to copy? Do you just go back to the beginning and recopy everything again? Are you just stuck in an infinite loop of copying the artist you aspire to be likes work with each waveloop getting better and better?

I've been trying to learn from the artist on the left, and I can't for the life of me understand how to color properly. I think he uses the bucket tool to color, but that seems to only work when all the lines are connected so the bucket tool doesn't fill the entire canvas instead of that 1 section. But the thought of needing to connect all the lines in order to color kinda breaks my mind. Is there an easy method of coloring like the guy on the left?

>>7750956
>talent isn't real
>if you can draw for at least 3 hours a day without brain fog or headaches...
You literally contraddicted yourself in a second.

>>7751921
>brain fog or headaches
sounds more like a disability. even the shittiest begs wont get themself into a headache just by getting too mad.

>>7751916
>once you make a drawing that you deem "success worthy" [...]
Let it be or share it, after that I start to see all the erros I was too tunnelvisioned to see, I then get mad and destroy it, knowing what areas I work on. It doesnt ALWAYS happen, sometimes Im happy with the result even if I can see parts where I could have done things better.
>Do you just do it over and over again [...]
Kind of, I dont do the same whole drawing over and over again, but I do repeat specific parts from one drawing into another, trying to get good at them.
>Or do you pick another drawing of the same artist [...]
Maybe, but only if theres something specific I want to study, sometimes I just want to copy the feeling and vibe of the drawing, not the whole technical aspect of it.
>What happens when you run out [...]
I combine everything to make something resembling that style. I also copy other drawings, there are plenty of good things to look at to just study one artist.
>Do you just go back to the beginning [...]
I sometimes do that, not because I want, but because I forget things, my memory is pretty bad and I get tunnelvision a lot.
>Are you just stuck in an infinite loop [...]
I wouldnt say stuck, stuck implies something negative and a lack of agency, and this grind is what I want to do, and I know that at some point I will reach my limit.
>I've been trying to learn from the artist on the left [...]
Im not sure this a tool issue anon, that artist uses very flat coloring and sharp distinctions between what little "shadows" there are, I think your issue is more so the lineart that separates the colors. Have you tried coloring with brushes rather than the bucket tool? You said that you dont want to connect all the lines so to not fill the entire thing, if thats the case, then just go ahead and paint with a brush, its simpler that way, and eventually, when you get better at lineart so to actually connect the lines without thinking about it, you can go back and try the bucket tool.

>>7752134
thanks for the detailed advice. I guess I'll just keep practicing what I can and see where that gets me. Keeping cleaner line art and shapes in mind.

>>7751962
You are taking it in a literal way. Not an actual headache.
Don't you feel tired after drawing for a bit of time? Not tired in the sense of boredom.

>>7744167 (OP)
There is passion and there is a quicker ability to grasp a concept compared to someone else. That's it that's all there is to it. If you have passion and a slightly better brain at understanding creative concepts its percieved as talent because you pick things up and improve faster than others. This thread did not need to go on this long. If you can't draw your brain was simply meant for a different creative medium.

>>7744167 (OP)
the best way to disprove talent is to show a good artist who started bad. That's it. Every good artist you can name will have started out pretty good already. And every popular bad artist will be shown to have not gotten any better despite having all the resources and motivation to improve.

>>7752376
did you mean disprove or prove?

>>7744167 (OP)
talent is just natural learning and understanding, intelligence really. Everyone who isnt majorly physically or mentally disabled in some way has a learning curve, some steeper than others with different peaks and valleys. Most people don't know their potential cause they dont try. just assume you have talent until you realize you don't, but by that point it won't matter since you've learned enough to know you dont know shit and can start actually improving properly.

>>7744167 (OP)
The only real "talent" that actually exists, and is determined by DNA, is intelligence which enables you to learn pretty much anything faster.

And I suppose everyone's brain is different and processes things differently/faster; such as autistic people being better with numbers.

>>7744167 (OP)
Talent is real but the talentless will never accept it because otherwise they have to cope with the fact that they're wasting their time trying to become a master.

You complete fucking niggers. The answer is so easy and obvious but you keep making these dogshit threads full of low IQ motherfuckers.
Yes, the talent is real.
Some people's brains naturally have better comprehension of anatomy, faces, colors, 3d environments, composition etc. Some people are better in one and some in several, some geniuses are naturally good in all.
These innate qualities give x100 boost in art progress compared to someone who has none of those.
You fags act so arrogant "hurr durr I am THINKING and STUDYING I am very smart talent isn't real" while you utter morons fail to realize other people don't even have to consciously engage with drawing to achieve same results.
Yeah, nobody is born with ability to just draw Murata-tier art, but people are born with ability to learn it 100 times faster, go farther and with less effort than others.
Jap have always known that but clueless westerners still get uppity. >>7747470
Talent + hard work >>>>>>> no talent + hard work >= talent + no hard work

>>7747489
Cool. Let's see your work

>>7753406
why would anyone want to share a genuine part of themselves & their passion in a place full of assholes like this

>>7744167 (OP)
"Talent" is a funny word that can't really be quantified. An intelligent person with decent memory, critical thinking skills and an obsession with drawing will usually end up a great artist if given 5-10 years. 102 IQ who spends more time fapping, scrolling feeds and playing video games than drawing usually won't.

>>7753950
IQ's a myth, talent is real tho.
Even if IQ's a real thing, it doesn't matter past a certain point because of diminishing returns.
If a dumb guy know the basics of perspective theory and he practice it for 12+ hours a day while a smart fag study art theory for hours but only practice for a 1 or 2 hours a day, the smartass will be mogged by the dumbass.
Improving in drawing is all about practice, theory is 5% of art gains at best.
A few years ago I was afraid of the Loomis method of drawing heads because it seems complicated for a nodraw, total /beg/ but if you practice it for a few minutes, hours, it's actually easy and extremely useful.

>>7750680
>multiplier
this

>haha bro talent isn't real you just don't draw enough
>and if you draw enough then you just don't draw mindfully
>and if you draw mindfully then you just don't practice
>and if you practice then you are just doing it wrong
>and if you aren't doing it wrong then you just don't have a mentor
>and if you do have a mentor then he's just bad at explaining

>>7754216
Hey, you're the 102 IQ guy from the example. Just take it easy with the fapping, scrolling and vidya. lol

this feels like a dick measuring contest where everyone is fighting to see who is more impotent

I used to say not real, I was called talented and wanted to believe it was hard work that got me there, but I'm lazy af. many artists working far harder than me for longer are far worse.

>>7744167 (OP)
you're all retards worrying about the wrong shit instead of enjoying drawing

>>7754536
You still believe in IQ and you think you're smart lmao.

>>7755554
I KNEW I was smarter than everywan even thought my IQ test came pack as 74!!!!!

>>7750680
Ronaldo was never good or put his soul into it
Messi's life was all about Futbol, so much so he is pretty autistic about it.
Ronaldo's motivation is his paycheck, thats why he pays for the saudis

>>7753939
Can't even put your money where your mouth is or just show a quick sketch.
So much for talent.

>>7744167 (OP)
It's a talent. I'll never be a Picasso, Hayao Miyazaki or a writer like Murakami.

some people probably have naturally better mind muscle connection, and that certainly would help with handling a pen

>>7755554
>online

Talent is real, but it's mostly just used as an excuse by nodraws for why they don't draw.
Few people are truly talented, and the majority of the artists you like are probably not all that talented, but what they really are is diligent.

Focus on your strong suit. Make up for what you lack in other areas. Once you figure out what single thing you're best at work on that up until perfection. That is your model for learning, use it to buttress your weaknesses, then improve upon them.

Can't change the cards you're dealt. But play them right, make the best of it and you might just get ahead in the game.

>>7747470
>>7747502
>>7753390
Fucking LMAO i cant believe somebody referenced Kagurabachi some weeks after I read and catch up with it for the first time ever, that character felt like a super personal touch from the author, maybe he himself feels mogged by others in the industry (my guess is Horikoshi for art and Fujimoto for writing bc those are true young geniuses that wont ever be touched in their specialty, Gege seems more like a 1 to 1 inspiration and he isnt outrageously good as other contemporaries)
I digress, what is your advice for a total beg then anons? Should somebody just give up if drawing doesnt come naturally at all? The whole "think think" thing also feels too unfocused but where does a TRVE beginner ACTUALLY start? The internet is so immense nowadays and there's no roadmap for this? Something is amiss, is it gatekept info?
Thanks for your time

>>7762456
Unfortunately I have good taste so all the artists I like are very much talented and every interview/bit of background info I've seen of them confirms they were cracked long before they graduated high school
Here's some of Mahiro Maeda's juvenalia for example

Real. hard work without talent leads to artists who are good at copying, very rarely good at imagination work.
talented artists get good at both copying and drawing from imagination without so much effort.

>>7744167 (OP)
>Talent with hard work and practice: God tier
>Talent with no work and no practice: Mid tier to low tier, you can surpass them with hard work and practice while having no inital talent
Talent is like a pre-order bonus to drawan but not the end all be all.

>>7747236
You have talent. You are just trying to hammer a square shape into a circle hole.
Y'know what this board needs? Like a cosplay check thread.
Like "this is my face and build, what should I cosplay"
With your line economy and cute style you should be making Arale style funny manga.
If you are doing anything else or aiming for character design gigs, you are not playing your strenghts and fucking yourself

No shit talent exists. Why wouldn't it? You think art is some magical field that's 100% meritocratic, when nothing else in life is?

Just world fallacy and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>>7744174
anon, I believe you sell yourself short. I rate you a 10/10. God Bless

>>7763435
plenty of persistent, hard-working people who get nowhere. Some talent and self-initiative, a clear goal is very much needed.

>>7744174
>Creative endeavors have nothing to do with IQ, IQ is for pattern recognition
A smart person would have recognised zhe pattern of non-improvement before 10 years.
Talent is intelligence and it does matter, because it allows you to analyse your work, the work of others, and it enables you to learn and correct course.

> Matthew 13:52:
> “Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.”
“Talent is a pursued interest. Anything that you're willing to practice, you can do.”
― Bob Ross

>>7765437
IQ and talent are not even remotely the same. You can use calculative ability as a crutch in the same way that you can use hard work as a crutch, but the talented don't need to do that.