Thread 7756634

I am a beg.
I have wanted to learn to draw for years, but haven't. I feel like I have a very solid grasp on the fundamentals. I can draw all the basic shapes and volumes fairly consistently in perspective. I feel like I have a good understanding on measuring, gesture, simplifying, etc. The problem is, when I try to draw a human, everything goes wrong very quickly. The shapes go wrong, the angles are wrong, the proportions are very wrong and connecting everything believably feels impossible. As soon as I start trying for about 10 minutes and results are miles off being decent, let alone good, I find myself demotivated.

I understand rome wasn't built in a day and it takes a long time to get good, but I've been in this cycle for a few years now: decide to start practicing one day, try for a few minutes, get demotivated, then stop drawing for months.

What is the key to break this cycle? I feel like if I could at least draw a human coherently consistently, that would give me all the inspiration I need to push myself, but right now it feels like a really big hurdle.

>>7756634 (OP)
>beg
>very solid grasp on the fundamentals
stopped reading

>If I can do X, that would give me ALL the inspiration I need to push myself

Yeah. Sure buddy. How about you just draw and see where it goes?

>>7756634 (OP)
>I feel like I have a very solid grasp on the fundamentals
why does every pre-beg say this when they actually have non-existent fundamentals

>>7756634 (OP)
Post your mannequins, otherwise we can't tell where are you fucking up and where you aren't.

>>7756709
that depends on your definition of the fundamentals, retard

>>7756766
There's no "your definition", retard, otherwise the statement of "I have a very solid grasp on the fundamentals" doesn't mean anything whatsoever.
There is no headcanon cope where you "have a very solid grasp on the fundamentals" and your "proportions are very wrong"

>>7756923
You are a complete and utter moron, anon. It's impressive how idiots like you apply your own context of fundamentals to everyone.
Complete and utter idiot of the highest order :)

>>7756927
>heh, you can't just apply your context of the fundamental drawing skills to me
>now why can't I draw???

>>7756938
Why are you continuing to double down on your stupidity anon?

>>7756634 (OP)
>draw shapes, boxes, lines in a void, never actually draw anything
Those are warmup exercises. Draw from references for now.

Also you have to draw for hours to get anything half decent as a beginner, not 10 mins, use pencil and eraser. Do fun with a pencil, do the exercises once and move on.

>>7756927
>my proportions are horribly wrong, but I have a very solid grasp of fundamentals
>uhmmmm sweatie actually I don't consider proportions to be fundamentals

>>7756953
why are you doubling down on being a permabeg?

>>7756964
>Do fun with a pencil

>>7756641
>>7756709
not him but there is a clear difference between understanding the fundamentals and putting them into practice. you are an idiot for not grasping this

I see. So the definition of fundamentals is now debatable to the extent of people meaninglessly throwing shit at each other. Great job guys.

>>7757059
No there isn't, dunning kruger. Being aware that things have proportions =/= understanding proportions. Knowing that things get smaller further away =/= understanding perspective.

>>7757013
why not? Its a good book to learn illustration? Do you know better than loomis? retard.

>>7757098
bizarre how stupid you are mate

>>7757119
PYW cuck

>>7757110
It's a terrible book, tard. worst snake oil book for begs

>>7757128
>snake oil for begs
don't be ridiculous, most of the illustrations in the beginning of fun with a pencil look way better than anything I've seen in /beg/, all of the illustrations in the end look like a beg's wet dream. Do the book and actually try.

>>7757136
>missing the point
Like the stupid idiot you are.

>>7756634 (OP)
OP here.
Upon further reflection and some self-study, I've noticed a bit of an oddity.
My drawing from imagination looks better/more coherent than drawing from reference. That isn't to say it's good (it's not) but side-by-side, imagination is clearly better than reference.

I'm wondering if I have some kind of motor problem where looking at a subject negatively affects my ability to draw. I feel like when I'm looking at a reference, my brain is getting scrambled with all kinds of information I've picked up from various books and video courses: "SEE the figure", "ALWAYS observe while drawing", "spend 80% time observing the model and 20% looking at your canvas", "try to capture the movement of the pose", "look for the primary action line". There's so much esoteric information to internalize and it ultimately affects my ability to put everything in the right place, angle and scale.

Meanwhile if I draw from imagination, suddenly I'm not burdened with trying to look at a model and I can focus on accurately drawing the shapes in correct proportion. Of course this still comes with all the issues related to drawing from imagination and I don't think I can truly make good progress without reference, but at least I've seemingly narrowed my issue a bit.

How do I train my brain to observe and study a human reference properly?

>>7756634 (OP)
>>7757201
many such cases of overthinking howies.
just draw and stay mindful and you will have fun and get better

>>7757137
You didn't even make a point, just attached a screenshot of the book and said its snake oil. Snake oil could mean a million different things, you don't like the way the book it formatted, the exercises, the finished illustrations, maybe you think its purposefully misleading or long, what am I a mind reader? Tell me exactly whats wrong with it. The fact that you can't even string a few sentences together for an argument tells me exactly why you struggle with art. You think you're effortlessly smarter and better than everyone and get bitter when you try only to fail.

>>7757300
>just attach the eyes, ears and mouth! see, its easy!
The fact that you can't see the problem here is evidence of how stupid you are, anon.

>>7757201
Train? Just make up your mind about what you want to learn from the reference: form? proportions? poses? values?
The point of a reference is not to copy it line by line.

>>7757201
I’m gonna be honest with you chief, I used to think this, then I practiced more from reference, then looked at my freehand work and realized it was shit.

Also:
Post your work

>>7762331
>Post your work
pic related from yesterday doing "quick" gesture.

I mean I'd say it's better than where it was yesterday, but I still feel like my brain is getting confused from all kinds of information gathered from course videos and tutorials. A lot of the gesture courses insist you must always sketch quickly or gesture in under 1 minute, but that always causes proportion to go badly wrong. Even when I take more time, I still feel like it's pretty hard to get every angle and length right, especially with some more difficult poses.

Another course said I should instead focus on drawing simple 3D shapes instead of drawing the contours of the body directly, like a rectangle for the ribcage and cylinders for the arms so it's clearer what the sides, bottom and top are. These are hard to sketch quickly though, and the korean in the video is suggesting it's easy and great for beginners, but in practice it's really difficult for me to execute.

>>7756801
no one can explain to me how do you study. i found my gestures are lacking, so i did gesture drawings, but i learned literally nothing from it and no one can explain what am i supposed to acquire from doing them

>>7763455
art teachers are not known for being smart people. the simple reality is that gesture drawing doesn't work for everyone. for some people it's extremely bad snake oil that will ingrain bad habits.

gesture drawing is specifically for people who are well tuned for using the right side of the brain. if you are not a naturally expressive, emotional person, then avoid it at all costs.

>>7763413
>Another course said I should instead focus on drawing simple 3D shapes instead of drawing the contours of the body directly
Yes, because that's an entirely different exercise targeted at improving an entirely different skill. It's not necessary to draw perfect forms when doing gesture, the point is to get to draw proportions of the body parts well with confidence every first try so that when you practice combining boxes and cylinders to make characters you don't have to fight with the proportions every fucking time.

>>7763501
>It's not necessary to draw perfect forms when doing gesture, the point is to get to draw proportions of the body parts well with confidence every first try
and here's a textbook example of the esoteric nature of le "gesture drawing". everyone has a different explanation.
"the point is to draw proportions in every first try"? that's not what vilppu says, or huston, or hampton. gesture is for capturing the "movement" of the pose... oh wait, it's actually about capturing the "feeling" of the pose, or it's about "feeling the form", it's "drawing dynamically", capturing the "rhythm", finding the "expression".
get the proportions of the body parts well with every first try? what about vilppu saying don't worry too much about proportions when gesturing in the figure?

once again, refer to >>7763500

>>7763455
In these vids these fundamentals are explained in context and what their purposes should be.
>>7758088

>>7763505
One definition is right, others are wrong, some are both partially right and wrong, so just because some bad teachers regurgitate knowledge that has been useful for generations of artists for views and explain it poorly, doesn't mean that knowledge isn't valuable by itslef. It's not very useful if the justification of the exercise doesn't make sense to you. The most important thing should be to be aware of what is making you to draw poorly (which could be how you're holding your pen, but most likely has to do with being able to imagine objects accurately), and using exercises targeted at improving that instead of focusing on a bunch of different fundamentals at the same time.

god how hard is it
DO NOT REPLY TO HOWIE THREADS

>>7763570
You are an idiot. Not every beg thread is literally howie.

>>7763413
By contrast, here are a couple of quick figure sketches from imagination. not great, but clearly better than having a reference at the moment.
I feel like when I'm not looking at a reference, I am more comfortable and can better compartmentalize the key landmarks, simplified shapes and proportions.

I can understand the spine's S-curve, but when a model is in an unorthodox pose and the spinal curve is drastically different, it throws my balance off in getting other proportions correctly.

>>7763413
>Coomers are always permabegs
I see a pattern. No but seriously why every beg wants to draw bitches with sagging tits

posting frogs
lots of writing
not drawing
NGMI

>>7763614
My friend. Complete a drawing. For your own sake. Come up with an idea or find a cool reference and draw it What the fuck are these scribble people? Is this what you want to draw?

>guys is there a one secret trick to getting better at drawing if I can only stand to draw 5 minutes a day a few times a week? How do I get better without having to draw and practice? And don't say "draw more", I hate drawing.

these fucking threads are so annoying, we need a guide for people who hate drawing. Like just study gesture and visual copying.

>>7764719
>What the fuck are these scribble people?
not him but you're a complete moron. quick gesture drawings are a valid form of practice

>>7756634 (OP)
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are at a similar point I was, and see many other begs get stuck at. You fell for the fundamentals begtrap, you did shit like drawabox, and spent months if not years drawing lines, circles, and boxes. You are pretty good at them by now, but when you try and draw anything less abstract, it looks like diarrhea.

If that's you, read on. Here's whats happening: you've gone from being dogshit at drawing boxes, to being decent at drawing boxes, however you are still dogshit at drawing faces, hands, people, trees, whataver the fuck. The truth is, being good at boxes will not make you good at drawing all those other things. When drawing anything other than boxes, you are starting from level 0 again. So yes, you will have to go through drawing like dogshit for a while until you get good at drawing those things as well. Stop fearing drawing complex shit or being a doomer about your own sills. Just go fucking draw people or whatever the fuck, and follow >>7756801

Go draw a person, then analyze what went wrong in your drawing, then go practice that part. Look at tutorials or whatever and fill pages of faces, hands, ears, w/e, then move on to making a new creative drawing to apply what you learned and find your next flaw.

>>7757136
>most of the illustrations in the beginning of fun with a pencil look way better than anything I've seen in /beg/, all of the illustrations in the end look like a beg's wet dream
just buy an art book or picture book, it's not a learing resource worth studying

>>7763574
>I have wanted to learn to draw for years
>but haven't

>>7766189
Do you really believe howie is the only one who says this? Idiot.