Thread 7758922

>construction fundies are a psyop invented to stop you from drawing anime

Is there any truth to this?
What makes so many people unable to draw anime but able to analyze it and break it down into simpler 3D forms?

Did you got so butthurt with me reading you in /beg/ that you had to create an thread to try to trick more people so you can at least try to feel better?

Do you have friends in real life, anon? or online? is not normal to be this lonely.

>>7758923
I honestly was expecting a reply by now. By golly, you really do hate being read don't you? Is probably the combination of females hormones and some asperges. I seem it before. Not that special.

>>7758922 (OP)
Yes anon, the reason why i want you to draw circles and boxes it's because i don't want you to draw circles and boxes realistically.

none of you faggots are serious about art, get the fuck out

>>7758922 (OP)
>Is there any truth to this?

stop this nonsense, its getting you nowhere

just use AI than complain here if you're that insecure of your ability that you need to look for conspiracies to excuse being lazy

>>7758922 (OP)
Which of the fundies is more pernicious, construction or anatomy?

>>7759017
appeal

>>7758922 (OP)
no, they are really helpful but sometimes people use construction as the only stick on which they interact with art and this messes up their understanding of stuff like anime and cartooning.

sometimes you gotta know when and where you have to ignore what the construction is telling you where the lines should go or if there should be a line at all there. it's mostly study and practice but also a lot of it is just intuition and taste. sometimes your brain will tell you "this shit looks ugly" and you should listen to it.

tl;dr: you gotta let go sometimes, man.

also see: the concept of "the pleasure of lines"

>>7758922 (OP)
The reason why a lot of western artists can't draw anime/manga art well is because they focus on the wrong thing. Manga art, which anime is derived from is focused solely on inking and line work.
A lot of traditional western art is focused on the complete opposite. Rendering and making lines disappear. This is why people who are really good at rendering and realism, struggle to draw anime properly. It's a fundamental disconnect and it's what's at it's core.

>>7758969
funniest thing is that the ref is a fucking 3d model

>>7759031
>ignore what the construction is telling you
Then indeed, for the western artist construction is more than just a method, it can actually tell you things to do. We got it bros, this is the issue.
>>7759017
After thinking about this, construction is absolutely the most malicious fundie. Anatomy at least has concrete info behind it and it's easy to spot any malicious use of it as a worldview to dictate how you should draw something. But with construction, it presents itself as a method with no strings attached, so you think you can just adopt it with no damage when in reality it already comes with assumptions about the correct way to draw.
>>7759020
I've never seen appeal used as a fundie. To me it's more of a thing you use when you have to say "I like it so it's good" without being able to give any justification, even more useful when attacking something. Stylization is also a big one.

>>7758922 (OP)
>What makes so many people unable to draw anime but able to analyze it and break it down into simpler 3D forms?
To give a serious answer, it's just simpler. It's extremely hard to explain all the choices an artist made to create an anime design because you have to have direct familiarity with drawing it and think a lot about why they did certain things.
Doing a simple 3D breakdown offers a nice copout where you can seem intelligent without actually doing the hard work of being able to replicate the style. It also decreases overall art standards so it's a helpful tool for art grifters who want to undermine the legitimacy of anime and push their own goyslop as an alternative.

>>7760349
>comes with assumptions about the correct way to draw
You got it wrong. If you use any form consistenly, you're using construction, regardless of if you're using something basic like a cube or a complex one like the stylized head of your choice.

>>7760354
>ignore what the construction is telling you where the lines should go
How is this not assumptions about what's correct?
>Regardless of if you're using something basic like a cube
I think it's necessary to distinguish western construction from using some visual guide to make some aspects of drawing easier.

>>7760358
It's not an assumption, there is a correct way to draw any object. The study of form is the search for that, but most objects we want to draw are too complex to learn right away, which you need to in order to visualize them from different angles, that's why you simplify them as a starting point.
>I think it's necessary to distinguish western construction from using some visual guide to make some aspects of drawing easier
That's like wanting to use bow and arrows when you have access to an assault rifle.

>>7760379
>It's not an assumption
>there is a correct way to draw any object
Proof?

>>7760384
Everything has a fixed shape, use your eyes.

>>7760411
>it just is okay!?

>>7759198
This anon is onto something. When you pair this with the desire to oversimplify everything into abstracts it's a deadly combination.

Basic Loomis fundies are pretty useful to anime drawing I think. It's weird how well many more "classical "anime heads (not completely distorted chibi moeshit) actually fit to a loomis head compared to western cartoons. Western cartoon characters often have no forehead or craium at all, their eyes are way up on the head and all the basic proportions are off. Anime heads have the features basically in correct placement but just stylized. Almost like you could trace a loomis head and then draw anime features inside it.

>>7760636
>"classical "anime heads (not completely distorted chibi moeshit)

in lifting there's a point where you realize the big 3 (Squat bench deadlift) Is great because they're compound movements and some people get obssessed with this saying you don't need anyother exercise which leads to a spider body (big torso, small limbs) The same happens with advanced begs who swear by the methods they've learned not realizing the limitations of said methods, like the reilly/loomis method is not great for stylization and can lead to same face syndrome.

>>7758922 (OP)
That's 1) the wrong kind of construction for a cartoon drawing, and 2) poorly drawn, anyway (the features are not at the same angle as in the original drawing, and the eyes are not even proportionate to one another, for starters).

Anyway, that kind of analytical breakdown of planes isn't even practical for general drawing in a more realistic style; rather, it is just a tool for study and learning. Most artists use only a few construction lines when they are actually working.

Picrel is from a Japanese book.

>>7758922 (OP)
>Is there any truth to this?
Nope.
Construction helps you with the less stylized parts. Anime artworks still have those parts, especially the anatomy of the body.
But you obviously also need to know how to break down some of that construction in order to follow the language of anime symbolism (side mouth, toddler facial proportions, lack of defined jaws, etc.)
Without understanding how anatomy and perspective work, you'll never be able to draw your own things (especially from memory) without having to copy other anime.

>>7760770
>side mouth, toddler facial proportions, lack of defined jaws, etc.)

>>7760806
What are you trying to say? I know the rules of anime stylization.
What's wrong with the terms I used?

>>7760813
Don't mind him, he's mentally retarded.

>>7760813
>I know the rules of anime stylization.
Pyw?

>>7760813
He's a retard lolcow, don't bother

>>7760871
I don't draw classic anime.

>>7761141
>"classic" anime
What anime do you draw then? That pic isn't anime so why do you bring up "rules of anime stylization" and your supposed knowledge of them?

>>7761196
Not seeing anime. That pic was making fun of the view that anime is just [insert surface level features] so it's unironically fitting.

>>7761182
You can't even define anime in technical, objective terms

>>7761202
I can, but I don't want to reveal the forbidden trvkes here. But even without this technical knowledge you can distinguish anime from faux anime so nobody has any excuse.

>>7761141
>>7761202
You were warned and still chose to take the bait, it's over for you

grim thread

>>7761141
>>7761196
It's surreal how westoids will correct pro japanese drawings when they can't draw anime.

>>7761205
When will you pyw?

>>7761226
What's even worse are weebs who don't even draw thumb their nose at others that do draw.

>>7761229
bold of you to assume he draws at all

>>7761237
You got me there. He's more than likely a retarded shartycuck faggot

>>7761236
When you come for anime and can't draw it, be prepared to be destroyed.

>>7761241
He draws your amawu just fine.

>>7761243
>"anime pictures are just pictures with big eyes, aren't they? "Are there any differences in the designs?"
They are unable to recognize the difference between the two. This is the state of low cognitive resolution.

>>7761226
>>7761241
when are you going to post the image, faggot, do it

>>7761247
I'm a visual learner, may we please see your authentic anime drawing with genuine anime lines?

>>7761253
>I'm a visual learner,
Then you're really fortunate. There is an entire country producing authentic anime you can visually learn from, they even make art books with their genuine animu lines.

>>7761236
>attacking artists is le bad mkay!
>but it's okay when they're Japanese
westoid logic.

>>7761255
So you don't even draw anime, opinions discarded. This is the last (you) you'll get.
>>7761256
You don't draw.

>>7758922 (OP)
>this thread again
KILL YOURSELF FAGGOT

>>7761260
>So you don't even draw anime, opinions discarded. This is the last (you) you'll get.

>>7761272
He's right, you can't objectively define it nor do you draw it. All you're doing is driving people to want to purposely shit on anime just to summon and troll you. Or was that your goal from the start? A falseflag against anime lol

>>7761253
Pyw.

>>7761196
I don't think this makes it look any more anime anon.

>>7761182
Faux anime. I'm not a fan of anime noses and prefer to add more realism.
I brought them up, because any person that has enough experience with drawing and consumes anime should be able to understand how they work.
And my opinion is that construction and anime aren't mutually exclusive.

>>7761226
Not sure what you're talking about. This is my first post in this thread >>7760770 and I just said that learning construction can never be detrimental. The more you know, the better you can tackle any style.
Where did I correct any japanese pro exactly? Am I missing something?

>>7761141
Looks anime enough.

>>7761281
>Am I missing something?
Yeah, the fact that hes a known troll in this board.

>>7761281
>Faux anime.
I don't think you personally understand how anime works but I respect your honest stance on your work nonetheless.

>>7761281
What do you think of Tatsuyuki Tanaka's style?

>>7761289
I miss rage comics.

>>7761288
I know how it works, I just never actively tried to replicate it.
I was looking at my old work and I can't really find anything I would call close enough.
Now I'm actually curious if I could pull one off without looking at any refs.

>>7761281
>I'm not a fan of anime noses
>>>"anime pictures are just pictures with dot noses, aren't they? "Are there any differences in the designs?"
>implying there is no realism anime
Low cognitive resolution?

>>7761298
>I just never actively tried to replicate it.
Then you don't know how it works and you're severely underestimating it. Just admit it and move on. You're acting as silly as those stolen valor guys.

>>7761280
https://i.4cdn.org/ic/1760572238600660.png

>>7761292
I never heard of them. After looking them up I must say I'm not huge on their faces. The realistic expressions kinda throw me off a bit. I'm more a fan of less is more, where the viewer has more room for interpretation. But the overall art is phenomenal. Definitely art goals.

My anime inspiration comes from Studio Gainax, Inoue Kiyoshirou, Rumiko Takahashi, Satoru Ozawa, Akihiko Yoshida, to name a few.
But at the same time I grew up with French and Italian comics, and that definitely "took its toll".

>>7761308
Mikufag....

>>7761302
No lol. I can tell different artists apart. I'm not saying all anime looks the same. The artists I mentioned in my previous post all have very distinct styles. It's like with any other style really.

I know you're just trying to stirr shit and troll. I'm not going to fall for it. You should probably find another target.

>>7761306
My only goal in this thread was to say learning construction will not make you worse at drawing anime.
I couldn't care less about your anime fanboyism.

>>7761331
> construction will not make you worse at drawing anime
For all we know it did make you worse since you cannot draw it and are lobbying for more construction in anime.

>>7761335
>are lobbying for more construction in anime
And where exactly did I say this?
>For all we know
I'm using logic. You should try it sometimes.

>>7761339
>I'm using logic.
Logic dictates that you didn't prove what you set out to prove because you need a person who can draw anime. For all we know your current drawing is the result of construction eroding your ability to draw anime. It's consistent with all the facts we have.

>>7761346
>>7760770
>Construction helps you with the less stylized parts. Anime artworks still have those parts, especially the anatomy of the body.
Addendum to this. If you want to draw anything from imagination without using 3d models or a ton of references, then constuction is a must. At least until you internalize it.
Anime faces/heads and line-weight require an additional set of skills. I'm not arguing that.

This is the logic I'm talking about. If you disagree with anything I'm saying here, then you are either a lost cause or just trolling.

>>7761349
That's not construction as a fundie like you see in OP.

>Construction is bad
How does KNOWING MORE makes you WORSE in any way shape or form, that makes ZERO fucking sense, are weebs THIS stupid? I want to believe that they arent, please.

>>7761352
>how does spending time contemplating physics make you worse at kicking a ball
it's time not properly kicking a ball

>>7761353
>if I kick it correctly like this, it's going to better. sure it's not going to score me a goal but hey, it's the proper way to do it

>>7759017
What's the second most dangerous fundie after construction?

>>7761356
congrats, you understand why constructionism holds you back

>>7761353
When you do construction you are still drawing.
Nobody is arguing that practice isn't the most important thing when it comes to illustration.
Now I'm certain you are just trolling. You can't be this dense.

>>7761352
It's the same line of thinking a lot of guitarfags use when it comes to music theory

>>7761351
Of coruse it is. It just pertains to the rest of the body and not to a highly stylized anime head.
You are grasping at straws at this point.

>>7761370
I dont get it.

>>7761368
>when you're tracing you're still drawing
>when you're drawing parallel lines over and over, you're still drawing
>when you're randomly dragging a pencil over paper, you're still drawing

>>7761386
...Yes?

>>7761370
The difference is that music theory is descriptive, while construction is prescriptive, aka imaginary bullshit nobody but people who can't feel the form need.

>>7761141
>>7761196
i kneel anon to whatever argument you were making idk idc i just go on this board to look at the images
OOGA BOOGALA

>>7761391
>single digit IQ
sad

>>7761397
I could make a cool fucking sword drawing parallel lines over and over again and that would be drawing, nigger, better than what youre doing right now, no draw.

>>7761386
Yeah, but drawing with intent is definitely better in order to retain information.

I'm really not sure what your idea of learning to draw bodies correctly is. In my opinion construction is a great method to internalize perspective and anatomy. Especially if you want to be able to draw anything from imagination.
What's a better approach in your opinion?

>invented cognitive resolution
>singlehandedly proved the supremacy of Japanese artists on /ic/
Just how based is he?

>>7761404
>In my opinion this pysop is a great method to internalize other snake oil psyops.
Wow anon... Who would of thought.

>>7758922 (OP)
>tfw did only 1 page of perspective box fundies in my life
>tfw did only 1 page of construction fundies in my life
>tfw did 0 pages of anatomy fundies
feeling pretty good, ngl. might do 2 or so pages of perspective later in my career, but i'm happy with doing no more construction or anatomy.
AMA.

>>7761498
who's your waifu?

>>7761141
cute nose

>>7758922 (OP)
No, just remember what you learned and do it in your fashion.
If this is considered crab, then I'm not the kind of person who can really explain it better.

>>7761491
What's a better approach in your opinion?
You didn't answer.

>>7761498
>AMA.
PYW.

>>7761491
What's a better approach in your opinion?
I'm still waiting. Are you admitting that you are just full of shit?

>>7761498
>AMA.
when are you fucking off back to plebbit?

>>7761498
where is your art anon, lets see where that took you

>>7761498
>muh career
>AMA
Pyw bitch

>>7758922 (OP)
Construction is just a technique, it can be used for any style, but only in such a way and to the extent that it doesn't break the internal rules of the style (e.g. strict adherence to the rules of 3D space won't work with anime.)

>>7761491
What is a better approach?
Still waiting.

I'll never stop bumping this thread in order to expose you for the dishonest troll you are.

>>7761498
>AMA.
PYW

I know you won't, don't worry. We all know you are full of shit.

>>7761182
>That pic isn't anime
Can you elaborate why?

>>7761491
What is a better approach?
Still waiting.

I accept your concession.

It's settled. Construction is a great method to internalize perspective and anatomy and can be used to draw anime.

>>7761491
I accept your concession.

It's settled. Construction is a great method to internalize perspective and anatomy and drawing style has nothing to do with it.

>>7763274
Why are you replying to a troll, retard?

>>7764022
You know it's a troll, cool. Some random beg might not.
Exposing dishonest people feels good. I'll never stop.

>>7764024
You're a moron and you're making this board worse for everyone else by enabling him. At least you're forthright enough to admit that this is about self-gratification and not about moral superiority.

>>7758922 (OP)
Even Japanese animators use 'construction' to draw the characters consistently, just because someone has made a joke gif where they're being overly autistic for (hopefully) a laugh, doesn't make this less true.

>>7764063
It wasn't made as a joke, that was someone's honest attempt. It was in this thread https://warosu.org/ic/thread/7474526#p7481202
teal even made a guest appearance.

>>7764085
>It wasn't made as a joke
Good grief. Regardless, just because a retard does something wrong, doesn't make that thing wrong outright.
His biggest fault is that he was trying to construct it like a real human being, rather than a cartoon character.

>>7764093
but to be able to deconstruct (cartoon), you need to know how to proficiently construct a human being in the first place, that's the lesson here right?

they do construct, but with extra 3d help
https://x.com/Sco_ttie/status/1958122339650130000

>>7764144
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxdKjmiAQOE
only after seeing (great) artists like the one you posted show some of their help/tools/ai workflow shortcuts you realize how fucking out of reach to the rest of humanity some mangaka are
there is no bigger "getting to draw at God tier levels of expertise" as being thrown into a weekly inhuman schedule with an entire's island demographic growing up reading your shit, these fucking japanese autists do EVERYTHING in their fucking mind and the fucking pen just goes to work against raw paper or screen
i truly wish i was born a japanese kid with drawing autism...

>>7764035
>You're a moron and you're making this board worse
Not really.

>>7761352
The OP’s just a bitter fag who doesn’t understand he needs to actually apply what he’s learned in new ways to get a concrete understanding. He’s just grinding away without thinking.

>>7764159
he's wrong, he didn't construct the anatomy and stylize the face properly. sure it might work for him but it's wrong.

>>7764565
Once you internalize the fundies, you don't use construction for basic stuff like this anymore. It becomes second nature.
I'm sure you know this and you're just baiting though. I can tell by the second part of your shitpost.

>>7758922 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErhX1WxDN0E

>>7764883
OP's retarded take on this:
>This is not anime.

>>7765047
Then he's coping

>>7765052
Nn, he's just le epic troll. The hero of ic.

In other words, a random retard.

>>7758922 (OP)
Some construction is used to lay out a foundation to lay cement. Other construction is used, to hold up the frame of the house. You likely wouldn't use the same scaffolding for the cement as you would for the frame of the house.

What I'm saying is, alter your construction method to get the result you want consistently.

Look at pic related. an extreme case, but would use the same constructing method to draw yoshi as you do to draw a person? No, you change the fucking shapes you're using.

You know, anime may be more deceptive than we have realized.

We are approaching it with an anatomical sensibility, when it may lean more over to cartoon logic. I think we need to think with a more cartoonish sense than a logical one. Find that right balance.

>>7764883
looks western, not anime

>>7765247
you are braindead

>>7765247
>>7765047
OP BTFO, utterly predictable fool

>>7764883
doesn't count as construction

>>7765300
>People with the low cognitive resolution are unable to notice differences even when they are different, and think that everything is the same.

>>7764012
I concede you are beyond help and will never learn to draw
sad

>>7765306
PYW

>>7758922 (OP)
Can we brainstorm ways to increase cognitive resolution? I've done some field experiments and my research has shown
>+0.2 CR for doing anime face copies, only works when doing multiple in a row and fixing mistakes, stacks to +0.6 CR per session
>+1 CR per round of the Saito method
>-40 CR for doing boxes
>-30 CR for construction
>-15 CR for anatomy
I've noticed that the negative effects stack very quickly and can lower your CR permanently.

>>7765323
I draw for a living kek.
Meanwhile you troll from your parents' house.

>>7766387
You might want to check yourself for autism or some kind of cognitive disability.

Yeah, yeah, I know, you're le epic troll.

>>7765127
Kind of a shitty drawing guide to be honest.
Really, Yoshi's snout and head should both be circles (rather than the head being a more complex shape that already includes the eyes and the skin fold behind the eyes).
The hands as well are essentially just drawn in their entirety, despite being one of the trickiest things for people to draw (though these hands are super simple, they'd like be complex to beginner artist children).

>What I'm saying is, alter your construction method to get the result you want consistently.
Your right, but also wrong. The same rules for construction you'd use to draw bugs bunny, or Tom & Jerry, or Mickey Mouse, would also apply to Yoshi, or Mario, or Luigi.
Finding the simple shapes, and building up from them.

That said, drawing humans and other realistic things changes the game a bit, and those cartoon construction methods no longer work as well, so you're very much right in that sense.

>>7764883
Amawu/Cognitive Resolution fag ABSOLUTELY BLOWN THE FUVK OUT FOREVER, too bad he's so utterly delusional that he'll memory hole this and never change

>>7766513
post your bank statement, larper

i'm literally studying realism and construction right now just so i can draw anime better lmao. the more confident you are in art the better your work will be, and that's what construction, analyzing, simplifying, and the fundamentals are for. there's no truth to it, inability is just a skill issue. draw more.

pssssst
i'll let you into a little secret
drawing is tedious as fuck
construction exercises exist mostly to see if you have the chops to deal with the absolute chore that it is.
if you really can't stomach circles and boxes with a bit of anatomy, there is no chance in hell you'll actually develop as an artist.
it's a filter, if you will

>>7761196
is this ai what is that hand

>>7767054
I don't see any issues with the hands. What are you talking about?