In your country?

It's honestly so disgusting to see landphobia in what are supposed to be modern societies. As a PoL (Person of Land) I feel unsafe every time I'm forced to raise rent on single mothers.

Wtf bros I thought Jews are the bad guys

Javier Milei sexually assaulted me at a Gorillaz concert in 2009

>>212528371 (OP)
Has anyone ever actually received their "deposit" back after leaving a rental? I will be moving away soon and I'm wondering if it's even worth the money to clean up my apartment before I leave so I can get my deposit back or if they're just gonna pocket that shit regardless.

>>212528371 (OP)
How could dropping rent controls lower the price of rent?

Rent control is based and I'm not gonna pretend it's not.

>>212528556
At first he seemed like 2D, but he turned out to be Murdoc...

>>212528529
>>212528584
Good thing you live in Sweden and not a communist country like Argentina.

>>212528584
>>212528582
Economically illiterate retards lmao enjoy your migrants

>>212528576
I always have. One of them I said fuck it half way through cleaning and they still gave me most of it back

>>212528582
because the "rent controls" included a bunch of other rules like minimum 3 year leases in addition to the actual rent control

>>212528736
How did those rules become necessary, I wonder.

>>212528582
The supply increased

>if we let landlords charge more rent then rent will... go down!

>>212528576
One time I did.
Next time round the landlord was clearly too shady, so I decided I wasn't going to pay rent for the last three months.

>>212528529
pretending youre not a communist are we Henrik?

>>212528582
For one, it kicks out all the old boomers who are occupying oversized apartments for insanely low rents in the best locations.
Oftentimes these are the people are also the most well off.

>>212528576
just dont pay the last month and leave

>>212528780
that's completely beside the point

>>212528613
> Argentina
> Communist

Having lands, or renting houses, is by far one of the best sources of income, work-reward wise.

>>212528582
lmao euro retards cant imagine a world without their nanny state's controls

>>212528371 (OP)
Rent control is possibly the most retarded policy that is widely enacted
>>212528582
Rent control depresses construction. This leads to increased rents.

>>212529036
Yeah we should really emulate the Canadian housing market instead. You really have figured it out over there.

>>212528859
Rent control benefits the people who already have apartments, at the expense of those who are trying to move to the city, or trying to move into a larger family sized apartment.

Often times the people who benefit from rent controlled apartments are much more well off than the ones who are trying to rent for the first time.

>>212528859
Yes actually. Well you also have to let developers build.
>>212528984
Yep.

Rent control is basically subsidized housing for people who have lived there the longest. When you end it, it encourages people to move out, and those who afford it will rent better apartments and demand new construction.

>>212528576
only once, when i rented in a small town instead of a big city.

>>212529097
People who have lived somewhere for a long time shouldn't be priced out of their own home.

Don’t fuck with prices, just ban absentee owners, how hard is that.

>>212529097
New York City has absolutely no income cap on rent control.

There are people making 300k a year while living in rent controlled apartments. Absolutely ridiculous.

>>212529097
okay, but that has nothing to do with rent going down

>>212529004
It isn't. Once you start vetoing market prices, other problems pop up. Maybe short-term tenants lost landlords too much money at the rent controlled rates, and they were going out of business or opting to leave beds vacant. Maybe something else. Hard to know without details, but that's the point: price ceilings start to make every detail everybody's business

Don't bother with rent control, just exexute all landlords, seize their property and make housing a human right

>>212529151
> Absentee owners

How would u control that?

>>212529130
Boomers need to get kicked out of the best cities to make way for the younger generations.
Boomers have literally no reason at all to be occupying the best neighborhoods of the best cities, while students and young professionals and young families struggle to find a cupboard sized apartment to live in and have to pay 10x the rent of the rent controlled 3 bedroom apartment that the boomer is occupying.
Literally one of the biggest issue in modern day Europe is boomers occupying prime real estate for no reason at all.

>>212529064
canada is the same nanny state tho, its an anglo thing

>>212529064
Ontario and British Columbia both have rent control

In USA, rent control is negatively correlated with housing affordability. Sun belt metros with absolutely no rent control are able to soak up incoming population without having significant rent increases. California and NYC have extensive rent control and are shedding population due to housing unaffordability.

Rent control typically has several documented effects on housing prices and markets:

Short-term effects:
Lower rents for controlled units - Tenants in rent-controlled apartments pay below-market rates, sometimes significantly so
Reduced tenant mobility - People stay in rent-controlled units longer since moving means losing the price advantage

Long-term market effects:
Higher prices in uncontrolled segments - Landlords often charge premium rents for non-controlled units to compensate for losses elsewhere
Reduced new construction - Developers build fewer rental units due to profit constraints, limiting overall supply
Conversion to condos or other uses - Some rental properties are converted to ownership or commercial use to escape controls

Quality and maintenance impacts:
Deferred maintenance - With capped revenues, landlords may reduce upkeep and improvements
Deteriorating housing stock - Older rent-controlled buildings often show signs of neglect over time

Market distortions:

Black market activities - Under-the-table payments, key money, or other unofficial fees may emerge
Misallocation of housing - Large apartments occupied by single people while families crowd into smaller units

The severity of these effects depends heavily on how restrictive the controls are, how long they've been in place, and the specific design of the policy. Some newer "soft" rent control policies with modest annual increases and vacancy decontrol show fewer negative effects than older, stricter systems.
Most economists view rent control as creating more problems than it solves, though it remains popular with tenants who benefit directly from below-market rents.

>>212529203
And then you can be a shithole like China under mao?

>>212529164
Berlin/Germany is the same. Stupid ass system. All these "leftists" who are pro-rent control are mostly these boomer-tier hippies with substantial savings enjoying their practically free apartment.

>>212529182
Rent goes down for young people, if more space is made available for them, because the boomers cannot hog all the rentable real estate for themselves.

>>212529151
This isn't a real problem.

NYC has a rental vacancy rate of 1.4%, which is shockingly low.

>>212529343
Yes

>>212529353
I would say that the biggest fans of rent control here are the downwardly-mobile upper middle class.

>>212529203
Leftist retards don't understand that the landlords Mao killed and Adam Smith were referring to are not the same thing as apartment building owners.

These were basically landholders who were hoarding land and renting them out for agriculture. This is very different from apartment building owner, where most of the value is actually the building, something that is built by people and cost money to build. 'Landlord' is actually a misnomer, 'building owner' is more accurate.

Rural agricultural land owners are a completely different thing than an investment firm that owns an apartment building. The former did not add value to society, the latter does.

>>212529424
Love his chili crisp though

>>212529459
Knee down and look at my rifle

>>212529064
you should make it so the police dont need a warrant to enter your home.

you should make it so a king controls all your land so you dont really have any freeholds or own anything.

you should all live in 25 sqm pod apartments and pay 80% tax to your feminist overlords.

oh wait....

>>212529459
I'm sure you've read some shit about Henry George right

>>212529459
>Leftists don't have humour mfs when a leftist posts a meme
Both should be abolished, rent seeking creates no value. Capital is dead, only labor creates value.

>>212529182
there's a lady in my building who has been in for 20+ years
she pays like 50% of market rate on rate because hers can only go up 2% a year
if rent control ended, she could have to move out
now multiply that by tens of thousands of cases and you had a bunch of people living beyond their means because the government had rent control
>>212529261
>>212529264
rental laws are provincial
some are very friendly to renters, would take me 2-3 months of non payment to get evicted and if I paid back rent during that time probably wouldn't get evicted, it's up to government arbiter
in other provinces they can evict you without cause in 24 hours and just have to pay you back the remainder of that months rent

>far left says to kill all the landlords
>landlord is actually an investment firm
>a teachers pension is invested in it
>you now have to kill every teacher in the state of Pennsylvania

>>212529760
Those poor teachers could have made more money on the S&P

>>212529671
>Capital is dead, only labor creates value.
Then what is stopping 'labor' from outcompeting private for-profit developers?

If all it takes as labor, just round up some labor and start building apartment buildings. Create a workers co-op tech firm while you're at it that outcompetes Google.

>>212528529
>renting to single mothers in the first place
Try nafris next time, you'll like it even more

>>212528584
it really isnt. strong rent laws is.
one of the reasons so many dare to buy early here is they know they can rent it out at a price that covers their mortgage and expences if they need to go out of town for a year or two for work, studies, military etc. and the law lays down a solid fundament for this where none can screw over the other.

>>212528529
If i rented for a single mother, id keep her the same prize, but shed have to pay that extra money with titties in my mouth.

>>212528992
I would if I could but America has a social credit system straight out of 1984 where if you don't pay rent once you get blacklisted from other rentals in the future.

>>212529842
>private for-profit developers
Where does the value come from? Empty buildings? Empty factories? Unused machines? Piles of cash? None has any value without labor, labor creates capital. Capital is subservient to labor, labor precedes capital.

>>212530091
Can't build shit without shovels therefore labor is also subservient to capital. Both are needed to make any kind of decent living; the argument that one or the other creates all value because it is "more" irreplaceable is specious

I hate poor "people" and I am glad they suffer

>>212530091
Labor supplies much of the value, hence why so much money is spent on salaries. But organization and financing are also critical.

I'm not seeing any non-profit developers supplying housing around me. But I am seeing corporations supply housing. There's no rule against non-profit developers, if they're just as capable as the for-profit developers they would be able to supply housing better and cheaper than the for-profit ones, but that is not the case.

>>212530270
>Can't build shit without shovels
Nigga who made the fucking shovels? God? Labor precedes capital you absolute drooling retard. They're in a dialectical relationship yes, but labor always precedes capital.

>believing in marxism in 2025
Even ruling communist parties don't actually believe this shit anymore.

Marx wasn't even an economist, he was a journalist who had a bunch of opinions and incorrect predictions.

>>212530394
"Capital is dead, only labor creates value."

>>212530394
A shovel company made it for-profit.

>>212529896
you dont want to fuck nafris. if you are a horny bloke you might want to fuck single moms and they will definetly want to fuck you.
i dont know how many times i seen a freshly divorced or broken up single mom move into a rental and a month later the same unit is back on the market. she fucked the landlord and moved in with him instead...

>>212528582
It doesn't. They're lying.

>>212530442
Look at the certified rockstar economist (the same guy worshippied by your trickle down crown like MAGA) admitting he was wrong. You overestimate credibility of economists.

Socialism these days is an ideology dedicated to ensuring boomers get bigger pensions and no rent increases while the rest of us have to work. And in Europe they get to contribute nothing at an office job, collect a salary, and never get fired.

>>212530615
crowd*

>>212528371 (OP)
Landlords have power here.

>>212530615
Yes, turning state back monopolies into private monopolies by handing them over to oligarchs is a bad thing.

Don't really see how this disproves capitalism. Russia just didn't do a very good job at privatization. The smart thing to do would be to break up the state companies prior to privatization that way they aren't monopolies and you transition to a free market. Russia failed at this and transitioned into a kleptocracy.

>>212530690
Just have a free market rather than this convoluted dumb shit

>>212530690
That's cheap as hell. I could live like a king in sweden. Right now I'm stuck paying $1700 USD for a shitty box. I can't move out because the rent only goes up.

>>212530794
>just pay 3x more for the same apartment so Jews can make more money
No thanks

>>212528582
Why do you think rent controls would work?

>>212530759
It doesn't need to disprove capitalism, giga-mind, it's your retarded hand that used "not an economist" as an actual accusation against Marx, meanwhile lots of the "popular" economists today are popular in the first place because they advanced some agenda, like Milton did. And it's hilarious that you shittalk Russia menawhile your own country is an excellent example of society going wrong because your own retarded state got captured by vested interests stiffling competition. You don't need to be an ex-socialist country to suffer the Russian fate

>>212530808
In Stockholm you have to get on a waiting list before you can get a rent controlled apartment.

People will wait for years before they get in one.

>>212530690
I meant to say "no power" but I am drunk as shit.
I pay €651/month for my 71m2 apartment in central Helsingborg.

>>212530832
its called market price. then you dont have to be on a waiting list for 10 years because its actually worth it to build new blocks, and because of that its becomes only 2x and not only that, you can afford to buy it and reap profit when you sell it.

>>212530921
The limiting factor of house building isn't demand. It's land and labor. Increasing housing prices doesn't make more land nor does it create new workers.

>>212530489
>Capital can multiply itself only by exchanging itself for labour-power, by calling wage-labour into life. The labour-power of the wage-labourer can exchange itself for capital only by increasing capital, by strengthening that very power whose slave it is.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/ch06.htm
>>212530491
No, laborers made it, humans made it. See above.

>>212530879
I never claimed the USA was a perfect example of a free market, but is certainly much freer than Russia. Russia basically handed fully functioning companies over to oligarchs in the 90's and many of them still have monopolies today.

Obviously, our housing has problems, partially due to our cities habit of land density restrictions but also a stagnation in construction productivity compared to everything else. We're mostly not captured by labor unions nationwide, with notable exceptions of the dock workers and elevator constructors. Our federal government will break up monopolies, as they did with AT&T years ago in our telecom industry and may do to Google soon.
>It doesn't need to disprove capitalism, giga-mind, it's your retarded hand that used "not an economist" as an actual accusation against Marx, meanwhile lots of the "popular" economists today are popular in the first place because they advanced some agenda, like Milton did
"You have to be 100% right all the time" or your field is meaningless is a flawed way of looking at society. I don't start lashing out at the weatherman because he predicted rain and it didn't rain.

>>212530978
thats exactly what it does! thats how capitalism works, someone dont want to sell their land or do a job, you offer them more money and suddenly they change their mind and they cant sell enough land or work enough. something is fishy in sweden when the cost of an apartment isnt enough to pay for either the land required or the workers to build it. reverse calculated based on your fixed rent a construction worker in sweden must make 50kr/hour or so. the numbers doesnt add up.

>>212528371 (OP)
You think this might be bait, but prior regulations made every rental contract go under the desk, and they were ALL subject to lawsuits, so
1) renting was almost impossible
2) no one who had a house/aparment put it on rent
3) potential lawsuits made rent price skyrocket to offset potential costs

>>212531037
Not seeing why capital would be called dead. I am reminded that Marx was wrong, that labor clearly receives more than mere subsistence wages today.

Landlords are essential for rental market. They get blamed for rental costs but it's not their fault. It's the bureaucratic red tape that is preventing developers from building more homes. The issue is the lack of supply.

>>212530921
>its called market price. then you dont have to be on a waiting list for 10 years
Or just avoid Stockholm, get a place in a few weeks and pay €400 for a good apartment. You can keep your high prices. We don't want them.

>>212528371 (OP)
>>212531160
People need to understand the Rent control we had, and why it fucked everything up.

Back then, rent for housing had to
>be 3 years maximum
>had to be in Argentine Pesos
> The price had to be stipulated from the get go (rent could up go up every 6 months, and only according to a crooked index the goverment published)... If inflation was 200%, the law only admitted 80%.
>renting could only be done via real state intermediators

Of course this sounds cool if you are a renter, the pricing of course will get destroyed after 6 months, let alone 3 years...

The result: the renting market was DESTROYED, no one rented, thousands of buildings were empty. No one could find a place to rent (with a contract). So the market died, or it went all behind the desk.
The second he got into power signed this piece of shit law off

>>212530978
>The limiting factor of house building isn't demand
Yes it is.

Developers operate on margins. They're only going to build if they can get high enough rent to offset construction costs and have profit on top of that. When you have a rent control system, rent control apartments are soaking up a lot of demand, many of which are people who could otherwise afford the rent of a new apartment that would help finance its construction.

When you keep high income earners in below market rate housing, its screwing over low income earners. High income earners should be demanding new construction, and they would be willing and able to pay for it if they weren't given a below market rate apartment that they don't need. Low income earners can't afford to finance the rent of new construction, so it doesn't get built.

Finn would maybe enjoy the description of capital as crystallized labor (or better, the crystallized combination of land and labor). But what's the argument there

>>212531183
>Not seeing why capital would be called dead.
It's dead because it doesn't create value by itself, it requires labor which together with capital creates new capital
>I am reminded that Marx was wrong, that labor clearly receives more than mere subsistence wages today.
The answer to this is imperialism, the global underclass that the expansion of markets creates that subsidises our lives in the imperial core

>>212528371 (OP)
Nah. We have rent control and caps since the 60's.
Rent is cheap outside of central Stockholm/the big three.
Contacts are permanent (or until you decide to move out).
Rent cannot be raised randomly.
Landlords must provide proper maintenance and service by national standards.
Etc.

Renting here is top tier.

>>212531212
But what if I want to live in Stockholm where the best jobs are.

>>212531212
big citys suck but if you can afford it its easy money. suckers will always think they must live in the city, buy there, keep it for as long as you can while fixing up small things here and there, sell and pocket the profit. others pay rent to live in the city, i made 150k€ doing so and used 50k€ of that to buy my current house.
renting is, has always been and will always be for cucks.
when in doubt, buy dont rent.

>>212528582
Why do you think random shit on twitter has to be true?

>>212531363
Then move somewhere within 30-45 minute commuting distance like my brother. He lives about 30 minutes away by car, pays €550/month for his 49m2 apartment.

>>212531408
>just spend over an hour every day commuting
no

>>212531363
Pay the market rate for a second hand contract while waiting in queue for a rent controlled apartment. They will of course be cheaper too because they have to compete with dirt cheap rent controlled places in the rest of the country.

>>212530759
>Don't really see how this disproves capitalism. Russia just didn't do a very good job at privatization.
One can also easily say
>Don't really see how this disproves socialism. Russia just didn't do a very good job at centralization.

>>212531444
The whole problem was caused by socialism in the first place. The socialist government created the monopolies.

>>212531436
Ok, then pay 5x the rent for a smaller place. You have that right.

>>212531363
what "best" jobs only exist in stockholm?
bomb disposal? arab interpreter? imam?

>>212531310
Well you can call it dead if you want but it seems rhetorical. As to the global underclass, the opening of China has improved their lot immensely, and the world ex-China, ex-developed countries has gotten richer too. Not mere subsistence anymore. Just came from tech growth. Everybody shared in some of it.

>>212531514
Isn't Stockholm the silicon valley of Europe?

Why do people hate the idea of capitalism working?

>>212531436
Wait. An American thinks 1 hour commuting per day is long?
I commute a total (back and forth) of 1 hour and 45 minutes everyday depending on traffic.
BUT in another thread like 20 American flags told me that under two hours is nothing and that everyone in America commutes like 3 hours a day from the suburbs..

>>212528582
How simple do you think the world is? How easy do you think it is to govern? You really think the guys in charge can just say "make the rent lower" and that will work in an uncomplicated fashion?

Is this why everyone buys into the conspiracy shit these days? If you really think it's that easy I guess yeah dishonesty would be the only way to explain the absolute state of things.

>>212531533
Sweden in general.

>>212531475
>The socialist government created the monopolies.
Good thing it ended and now all the HIVans live in harmony. It's been 30 years after all.

>>212531533
Stockholm for startups yes.

Housing crisis is bad in my country. Might move to a cheap country or something. Or live in a van fr fr

>>212531437
>They will of course be cheaper too because they have to compete with dirt cheap rent controlled places in the rest of the country.
Stockholm's market rate rent is more than I pay and the average salary is much lower than where I'm at (and I also live in the city center).

The system is basically young people have to over-pay for rent to subsidize older people in rent controlled apartments.

>>212531322
>Rent is cheap outside of central Stockholm/the big three.
Rent is also cheap in decaying rust belt cities in the USA.

But its also fairly affordable in growing sun belt cities, which is probably more relevant. Its very unaffordable in parts of USA that have rent control.

>>212528371 (OP)
I think the hate for landlords on reddit by merican libtards is hilarious. If you've ever lived as a rentoid you know the type, the absolute nightmare neighbours. I would never want to be a landlord since so many rentoids shouldn't be allowed in a furnitured room.

>>212531629
Because they didn't transition to a free market, they just gave the companies to oligarchs who still own them today.

That's the whole thing we're discussing. They need to break up the monopolies so they become a free market country in order to improve.

>>212528371 (OP)
This is propaganda but yes, you are a union men or no men at all in my area
You will get no seat in the dive bar and women will look at you in disgust

>>212531596
Some do and they generally live in big single family homes. Then they bitch about gas prices and traffic.

I personally prefer to live in an apartment in the city center and commute 5 minutes by light rail.

>>212531684
American wages are higher everywhere. Don't see how that's correlated to rent prices

>>212528371 (OP)
The real way to accomplish this is to ban short term rentals.
Pic related is landlord propaganda because billionaires who own all the property control the politicians and the media.

>>212528582
It didn't. People will believe anything if "their team" says it.

>>212531792
Wo are you at? Didn't know unions where that big of a deal in Deutschland

>>212531721
Difference being that this is the 10 largest cities in Sweden..
Most people live outside of these places.

>>212531533
silicon tits valley perhaps, idk, you dont go to any scandic big city to to these jobs.
>higher pay is eaten up by taxes and general cost of living in our cities
>you realise everyone local gtfo of the city every weekend and holiday to some cabin, summer house or second place thats in the family but you dont have that so you are stuck there with the nafris and other foreigners with all the enrichment that bring
>no sense of community
idk know about sweden but often such jobs are in used as a way to keep rural places alive here.
>cost of living is zero so wages can be kept down
>business cost of staying afloat equal
>unlimited supply of mostly dutch, german, uk and some usa engineers who seek the simple life but want to keep a "well" paying job in their field.
>actual sense of community
im not into high and fancy tech and i dropped my expences by 2000/month by leaving the city. thats 2000 less i dont have to work for each month, and the closest business to me is a world leader in some medical reuntgen/ultrasound equipment thats used worldwide, buildt in whats looks like and abandoned school with reindeer grassing in their garden.

>>212531835
Wages affect the rental market (they're apart of the 'demand').

I can't just say that Memphis has a better housing market than San Francisco for renters because of raw rent prices. I have look at percentage of income going to housing, that is the relevant statistic. This is even more important for cross-country comparisons.

So obviously Stockholm has lower rent than NYC, salaries are much lower. But that's not a good comparison.

>>212531855
in the Ruhrgebiet, a notorious blue colour area, it still matters
Ever since the Soziale Marktwirtschaft (Socialist Capitlism, sometimes called Rhein Socialism) was intruduced in germany to combat the rise of communism, the Unions got very powerfull and still are (Tarifgehalt)

>>212531763
So they skipped the gay transitionary period and went straight to the end goal? What's the problem?

>>212531841
>The real way to accomplish this is to ban short term rentals.
That doesn't actually do anything.

Several cities have banned short term rentals and its had almost no effect.

>>212531596
US has one of the lowest commute times of OECD countries. If someone is commuting hours daily it is usually due to choice of wanting to be close to something else instead of valuing the lower commute time to work, not necessarily bc of being priced out. For me I commute further because I didn’t want to live near a bunch of third world retards in the city.

Rent control is basically a nativist policy. Its giving preference to people who were there first, because they are superior and more entitled to any who came after them.

>>212531841
why and whats a short term rental to you? a month? six months? a year? we got a law that set a standard rental contract to minimum 3 years and the cancel time to 3 months, unless otherwise specified.
i would love to have more short term rentals out there outside of airbnb, its simple to use them but they are a cost i could avoid. i travel a lot at work and will choose anything but hotels if its more than a night or two. after the first week on airbnb i often make a deal so i pay directly to the owner instead and the price will be so it benefits us both. last job i paid one week through airbnb the rest directly. they already had my info they could charge me if i pissed on the tv and made meth in the micro.

>>212531841
There's very few cities where short term rentals are numerous enough to have an effect on the housing market. Mostly small touristy towns, nothing you would really call a 'city'.

And in those limited towns (which does not include Barcelona, btw), banning it is probably a bad idea because it would cause a tourism contraction.

>>212528371 (OP)
>Supply and demand applies to housing
AMAZING!

>>212532673
They need a third axis for percentage of whites so I know where to move to. Ain’t nobody moving to shitbrown texas

>>212531521
China's not really a great example of capitalism. The measures that the likes of the IMF and the WOT push are meant to keep the thirld world in check and indebted, China has succeeded by not playing their game and now Trump is crying and seething about it. Of course I'm not one of those idiots who claim China is socialist or believe in "socialism with chinese characteristics". Of course capitalism is a tremendous upgrade when compared to before and is a necessary step toward socialism, this is what the NEP and such were needed in the Soviet Union but it is not needed for economic growth like Dengists and such claim, socialist economies also achieve tremendous growth.
>Rather it becomes clear that China’s economic take off has seen a continuous advance from 1953 to 2005 at an average growth rate of 8.13 percent (including the years of flooding). The only thing that becomes clear from an overall graphing of the growth figures is that the year to year volatility of growth figures has steadily declined over the last half century. This can principally be attributed to the increasing ability of the Chinese government to control the negative impact of flooding by the progressive building of water control mechanisms such as dams, barrages, and canals. Naturally, these dams were built not by the market but by state intervention.
https://redpakistan.wordpress.com/2006/05/28/the-meteoric-rise-of-china/
As for the reduction in poverty, I don't trust it, they like to fudge numbers and lower the extreme poverty line to claim capitalism is doing it.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/8/21/exposing-the-great-poverty-reduction-lie
And then there is of course the unequal exchance between the imperial core and periphery which is a feature of the system of global capital not a flaw.

Why would rent-control hinder supply?

>>212533242

This kind of regulation destroys the rental market.
>>212531261


I don't know about Swedish regulations, but Argentinian regulations were draconian.

>>212533242
It soaks up demand, including people that would be able to afford a market rate apartment (social housing does not do this since its income restricted).

Also reduces investor confidence, leading to less renovations and less new construction. The expectation of future rent control devalues a newly constructed apartment, which is baked into the market price.

>>212528371 (OP)
I will never understand how anyone could ever support any form of price controls, sadly stuff like rent control are always really popular so nothing ever gets any better T_T

>>212532428
>we got a law that set a standard rental contract to minimum 3 years
wtf

>>212528371 (OP)
Total Marxoid death, actually

>>212535425
The average person has basically no understanding of economics. Price controls are an easy solution for politicians to espouse.

I firmly believe democracies need to prioritize economics education. People need to have basic supply and demand, trade-offs, opportunity costs and the concept of costs being passed on down the supply chain and to the consumer drilled into them started at 6 years old. Way more important than almost everything they teach instead, like random US War of Independence battles. People don't need to be experts in economics and don't need to be looking at graphs or data or anything, but when elections decide economic policy education is important.

>>212535425
I support electric distribution price controls (obviously needs to heavily weigh the need for capital investment in utility infrastructure, not just consumer protection).
Maybe, maybe some things in healthcare (not pharma though certainly).

>>212532394
Its geriatric policy anon, you are literally forcing young people who want to move out to move somewhere else just so you can keep older wealthier people happy.

>>212535597
I don't think the average person cares about the external effects, they just care if they will feel better off from it.

>>212531841
You are that leftist retard that shills for browns and admitted being in a hot wife (cuckold) relationship though.

The way you fix this is building public housing in high density regions and cycling the rents to people with certificate of employment and other requirements, not banning or increasing costs of mantainance for private property
You want a surveillance cuckold state where no one owns anything except large asset managers which the state supports by regulating small business in a way it benefits large ones

You want to copy Russia into Europe where property is largely owned by a middle class

Don't ask me how i knew he would win

>>212531629
Russia is a dystopian oligarchy in the first place because it was a communist judaic shithole first.

>>212528371 (OP)
>rent control
>famously caused by landlords
???

>>212532428
>we got a law that set a standard rental contract to minimum 3 years and the cancel time to 3 months
Didn't know that about Norway actually.
Here in Sweden, all basic rental contracts are "until further notice" and only the tenant can terminate the contract, not the landlord (unless rules/laws are broken by the tenant).
So you never have to worry about renewing contracts here, if you rent a place it's "permanent" or until you move out.

>>212536015
For a real life example: I rented my apartment (that I live in now) in 2009.
I went to the landlord company office, I signed the contract, I got a bunch of info papers, the keys to the apartment and other facilities and that was it.
Lived here since. No further contact with the landlord except when I wanted to paint the walls (landlord provides paint, tools and help every 5 years without extra cost as long as it's done by their standards).

>>212536083
wow total landbro

I make $1700 a month renting out 1 of my 2 spare bedrooms to a coworker. i pay all the utilities.
my mortage is a little over $2800 (which includes homeowners insurance/property tax in escrow and mortage insurance since i put less than 20% down)
with electricity, water, trash, internet included it comes out to about $3200 out of pocket for me every month from $6500 post tax income
hes actually happy with the situation because he was paying a little over $2000 off island with bridge traffic at peak times turning his 15 mile commute into 45 minutes to an hour. it still feels like im cheating though and have already made 2 extra mortage payments this year trying to get 20% equity paid so I can drop mortage insurance and have an extra ~$120 a month

>screenshots of twitter posts with screenshots
Please stop

>>212528371 (OP)
Of the two competing economic philosophies there were two major competing voices from them.
Capitalism had Adam Smith, a man who argued for the productivity and creation of things through a market system that essentially already existed. Or Marx, a man who saw the ills born from such capitalist system and suggested his alternative.
Neither of these man liked Landlords. Both of them vehemently hated them as leeches.

>>212528613
>>212529023
kill yourselves, cucks

>>212528371 (OP)
Sweden has rent control and strict renting laws keeping prices down. Downside is housing queues in popular areas.
But we also have private renting outside of that system that is more like the global standard.
I rent out my grandmas old apartment in Old Town Stockholm and thanks to that, I don't need to work. The rent in that area is retarded enough that what I charge for my place is enough to live on comfortably.

>>212528371 (OP)
I respect a lot of what Milei is doing but I feel most of it is not applicable to a normal country as it is basically economic chemotherapy.

>>212528371 (OP)
The problem with Millei is that people see what he's doing, and want to try it in their countries.
Except Argentina is an economic knot, unlike most other countries. He's untying a knot. Doing this in other cunts would probably just fuck over the common person.

>>212528613
kys leech

>>212528582
Its easier to rent now so theres a lot more supply but its only a temporary fix, it'll go up just in time for people to blame whatever party is in power just before an election

lol

The law here forbid the hiking of a rented appartment beyond a certain % every year.

I've been in my appartment for 9 years and I now pay 200/300€ per month less than what it would go on the market.

unnatural that I am physically stronger than my landlord yet I have to pay him money due to woke I could rip his head off but the state would do me in to jail due to woke

>>212538485
The market will regulate itself chud

>>212528371 (OP)

>>212540722

>>212540722
He deserved it for smiling like that

>>212528576
I did get it back every single time I rented a place. (Here deposits range between 1-3 months). Just make sure you haven't broken anything, I also painted the walls a week before leaving, something which was like 20-30€ the last time I did it.

>>212528964
>>212529896
>>212530032
>t. Landlords

>>212528984
>>212529097

This is pure propaganda, trying to appear as sympathising with the proletariat. Well, guess what happens after the "old boomers" (because there's no chance a couple of millenials rent such an apartment, oh no, definitely not) move out; what will bring the rent back down, retard? Who will move now in the expensive apartments? And will those rents come down again or will this portion of apartments/housing be left in the stratosphere of prices, taken away from the affordable offer pool?

>>212528582
If you rent your dead grandma's apartment you might risk it and end up with a shitty renter and stuck with a billion year long contract that you can't change nor update so why risk it. So a fuckload of people would rather keep their apartments empty.
If you drop rental control (to a degree) owners will be more eager to put their houses in the market. More stock = more competition = rent goes down.

>>212541763
...and the more expensive apartments won't get rented.


Huh, apart from whatever is left in stock for western capitalism in drugs and dvds, so are the arguments it seems, in this particular case from the neoliberalism era.

Gracias Milton Friedmano

>>212529245
Boomers usually own a flat in whatever they lived, a family inherited house in their town of origin, and if they were lucky a place to stay on holidays/vacations. Many live between the latter two when they retire, and rent the flat. Usually the real state agencies are the ones trying to squish as much as they can from these rentals.

>>212529459
Did these 'building owners' stopped using the scaffolding loophole to save money?

>>212530391
>I'm not seeing any non-profit developers supplying housing around me.

Because all social relations are commodified, there is less and less TIME to give to non-profit activities.

>>212530759
>Russia just didn't do a very good job at privatization

you mean because it handed everything to american investors ?

Britain has no rent controls yet obscene prices.

Give it a few years, and the Argentine housing supply will be hoovered up by private equity.

>>212542531
Argentina doesn't have 10,000,000+ migrants to house

>>212542633
So are you saying that an increase in supply is offset by an increase in demand? If it was reversed, if you didn't have the six gorillion immigrants, then wouldn't the landlords have to make up for the decrease in demand by raising the rents? After all, there is less of a turnover now, you'd need a more fixed flow of rent money; where three or four people would stay for a year, now the same amount of money would have to be made up by one or two people living there, and since that would inquire a higher income by the tenants, the pool of your potential tenants would be shrinking so you would benefit from a more permanent residency. And what about those apartments /houses that are not as desirable? Far away from hubs, or close to dumps or without view or one-room apartments ? Who would rent them?

Why are /int/oids so passionate and touchy about this particular subject. Housing/Rent makes so many of you seethe whatever side you’re on

>>212530615
>economist finds out that the state isn't just economic
>state has legal, economic, moral, environmental dimensions

>>212530911
>>212530690
I pay 860 for 1 room in a building shared with 20 people
>>212542531
you are gaining 1 Liverpool or Manchester every year in population dawg

>>212543197
the class struggle is real

>>212543197
Because I have to pay close to 800 in rent despite me and my gf earning 1500 a month. Which means living expenses eats up pretty much 1 of the 2 incomes

>>212541701

Do you understand that you do not have access to these rent controlled apartments?
In all cities with rent control, all these apartments have decade long waiting lists.
And if a new rent controlled unit is built, you can only get it by knowing the right people, or some back room deal.
It's a two-tiered system.
The people enjoying the privilege of a rent controlled apartment get to enjoy a 3 bedroom, 10 minutes from city center for 400 Euros / month. Meanwhile if you move to the city, you are forced to rent a room in a shared apartment for 900 Euros / month. Or maybe a studio for 1400 Euros / month.

protip to all brainers
dont rent, get your own house. problem solved!
>its so easy. why you dont do it?

>>212544393
This, but unironically.

i mean it unironically

i am king

>>212544393
it seems that youngsters are totally offset by the fact they will have to get into debt for 30 years and they think they must stay to this plan for the entire 30 year period.
first of all, after 10 years or so due to inflation and housing price increase your debt is reduced to 50% of the value.
you can always sell at any point and due to the above always get your money back + profit.
if somehow you fuck up the payments and the bank sell your apartment for you, they can only keep what you owe them the profit is still yours.
now compare that to renting...

>>212544766
>now compare that to renting...
not that a green-lefty will ever understand that

>>212542633
True but they'll be flooded eventually too

>>212537560
Adam Smith was referring to agricultural landlords with tenant farmers, they were actual parasites who just collected money due to a land title.
He was not referring to someone who owns an apartment building, which had to be built, and the rent collected goes to paying off the construction costs and maintenance. Very different things. See >>212529459

>>212542495
Commodification is how things get done. We make things profitable, that way they happen. Building housing is good and improves society, therefore it should be profitable. That doesn't prevent non-profit developers from out-competing for-profit developers. Non-profit developers can and do exist.
>>212542042
You mean in NYC? That was the result of a city ordinance. But yes they are stopping because I believe the council changed the law.
>>212542531
Britain has a bunch of other anti-growth policies that cause high housing costs. Britain doesn't let developers build, so of course its going to have high housing costs.

>>212542527
They handed state industries to a few Russians who happened to be in the right place and knew the right people. Especially in the 1996 "loan for share" scheme pushed by Yeltsin. These people still own the monopolies today.

>>212528582

>>212544820
but why dont you buy instead?

>>212528371 (OP)
I am a Maoist

>>212529459
most apartments have been paid more than once already. once the initial cost is covered "building owners" as you call them become actual landlords who leech money from tenants.

>>212553049
>most apartments have been paid more than once already.
If that is true than you're not building enough, which is the real problem.
>once the initial cost is covered "building owners" as you call them become actual landlords who leech money from tenants.
In a competitive rental market, owners of older buildings have to be diligent at maintaining it otherwise they will have to lower rent in order to attract tenants, who will opt for the nicer new or better maintained apartments.

If you build enough new apartments, the older apartments are devalued unless they are maintained and the owners of the old apartments lose leverage and have to lower rents.

>>212540693
Lolbertarianism should be classified as a religion because they continuously put their faith in unprovable or explicitly contrary-to-reality economist headcanon like this.

>>212531281
>High income earners should be demanding new construction
that's the trick, people have less kids and live more and more alone, so they have less incentive to buy a brand new big house and move away from their one-room flat to let new youngsters move in.

>>212553338
Or we can just make everyone pay market rent (besides some income-restricted subsidized/public housing for low earning families and seniors), and the high-income earner will likely opt to pay a little more for a newly constructed one bedroom in the most desirable location, allowing the old shitty one room flat to be filled by a low-income earner.

>>212528576
I have always gotten at least most of the deposit back. You should try not tearing out the walls.

>>212544766
that's a nice plan and all but to get a credit here you need a non-fixed term contract. which the neolibs want to abolish altogether so that only rich people can actually get loans from other rich people, while middle class will pay forever for a pod they'll never own.

>>212553049
You know you can always just buy a house yourself? You don't need to have a landlord.

>>212553179
You know you are retarded, right?

>>212553179
>to attract tenants, who will opt for the nicer new or better maintained apartments
not when the demand is so high that virtually every apartment no matter its condition can get rented, probably to a migrant who spends all of his free time outside anyway.
the only thing that forces landlord to renovate apartments is legislation or the perspective of putting it on AirBnB (and even then one-week tourists sometimes are much less demanding about appliances than actual residents).

captcha: G0YHK

>>212528576
I have never not gotten in back. What the fuck are you doing to your apartment?

>>212553506
>a newly constructed one bedroom in the most desirable location
that's the thing you don't get. in Europe all most desirable locations are already occupied. buying new always mean longer commutes, or adding the cost of demolishing an older house which is unaffordable for the middle class (and a regulation nightmare).
either you rent an apartment you'll never own, either you buy an apartment/house that has already been paid in full once or twice. in both cases it's a net loss.

>>212553777
see >>212553689

>>212554122
You are talking to a retard who thinks Milton Freeman is a "friggin' jeenius".

>>212554147
So why not fix that instead?

>>212554122
>and a regulation nightmare
Yeah, that's the entire problem and what needs to be fixed. Japan has the best housing market in the world, its very affordable market, and they have no rent control. They building housing that lasts a few decades, and then tear it down and rebuild it. Japan also has more liberal laws which make it easier to do this.

Europe needs to make it easier to tear down and rebuild. Tear down some old house or old relatively low density building, and build a 40 story tower.

Fixing regulations that make redevelopment impossible is more effective at reducing housing costs than rent control.

>>212556384
Part of their ebin cheap rents is that they live in literal closets in urban areas. And houses often don’t even have gardens. Efficient - yes, quality life - no.

>>212556437
Then pay more to rent a place with a garden.

That's the benefit of a liberal housing market, you can choose to pay more for something better. But if you don't care about a garden, you can pay less rent and live somewhere cheaper. You have agency and decisions, the government doesn't need to be making these choices.

>Europe imposes a bunch of rules for historic regulations, height limits, affordable housing mandates, rent control, aesthetic regulations, and refuses to build with wood (besides mass timber)
>USA imposes extreme density regulations and parking mandates.
>WAAAAH WHY IS HOUSING SO EXPENSIVE I CAN'T BELIEVE LANDLORDS DID THIS
>Japan has liberal zoning, has no rent control and builds with wood and has a very good housing market despite high density

>>212529205
Land value tax
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

>>212529459
In cities a huge % of the apartment value is made up of the land value.

>>212556848
Not typically majority (unless its a really old apartment) since you'll usually build a more valuable building on valuable land.

If you have a very valuable piece of land, you want to build a high rise to maximize value. I just checked my building (about 15 years old), the structure value is assessed at $70M and land value at $40M. So 35% is land value.

>>212556848
They also pay property tax proportionate to the value of the land.

>>212553689
wtf is a non fixed contract?

"Free market" is never going to bring affordable housing. People - regardless of ideology - should just accept this. Not accepting this is like incels getting mad that hot guys can get laid easy. Just move on

>>212557190
Free market can provide housing that is affordable to the vast majority of the population, allowing the government to step in and provide subsidized housing for the remainder.

Much more effectively than rent control certainly.

>>212557279
I mean there is no strict definition for "affordable"
Technically every city is affordable since the local population can afford to live there.

>>212556437
I would love to be able to rent a Japanese studio apartment with separate kitchen, balcony, and a washer/dryer. Simple and cheap options simply do not exist here in the US. Any studio crams everything into one space so you are sleeping one foot away from the stove.

hello im from argentina

>>212557946
hello r u wyt?

>>212557979
nope but some call me gringo de campo sometimes

Renting should be illegal. By law you should be able to buy a servicable 50m^2 apartment for $2k. Only allow citizens and permanent residents to own property, everybody else has to live out of motels.

>>212557279
The only places and times in history where countries had affordable rent, and landlords didn't screw people over was when the government did exactly as you said. Provide huge housing projects and selling them at low cost to consumers. It happened post-WW2 here and it's one of the reasons the boomers had their 'golden era'.
The only other alternative is to shift people's minds into treating housing like a commodity as they do in Japan, but that was a whole set of unique circumstances ALSO involving government funded building projects at least at first.
If you let landlords continue to horde land it will always get bad even if there's enough housing. We 100% have more than enough housing. But most of it is too highly valued for the general population.

>>212557349
If there's a market for it, then it gets made. How is this a hard concept?

>>212556506
>you can choose to pay more

Just shut the fuck up already

>>212557279
>Free market can provide housing that is affordable to the vast majority of the population

Yes, we clearly see that, that's why this thread exists.

>>212556437
Japanese cities and neighborhoods are all around extremely high quality and pleasant places to spend time in so why bother staying at your own home during your free time?
t. lived in jpn

>>212556437
The pod meme really only exists in Tokyo. Even other major cities have better sized places unless you look at sub 500 a month rent places.

>>212528371 (OP)
>>212528582
market was flooded with withheld properties, since those retards implemented rent-control without vacancy control, so landlords kept their appartements empty

>>212558452
>it happened in my mind

>>212557177
what I meant is a contract without a fixed duration. a permanent contract. in France they are very protective and the neolibs want them gone. at the same time they made it mandatory to have one to get a loan. typical divide and conquer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33tl21QbE2c