Thread 212703330

What made Normans so powerful?

>>212703398
I did ask there first, all I got was an autistic debate over whether or not Nafris counted as real Arabs

>>212703330 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hazir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ajnadayn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk

it happens

>>212703330 (OP)
Our loyalty to each other and our king

>>212703488
classic /his/ kek

>>212703573
>loyalty
>normans

>>212703330 (OP)
Why do Europeans love lying about battles numbers and casualties? mena ALWAYS had a lower population compared to Europe and the Muslims often times weren’t even the majority of population in said region. For example, some estimates say that Egypt only became majority Muslim and Arabic speaking in the Fatimid period (969_1171) the idea of a bunch of European peasants beating the Muslim horde and is fake, it’s a fantasy. The romans or any non Muslim entity outnumbered the Arabs in every encounter in the early conquests and the Europeans outnumbered Muslims in almost all their encounters in the medieval and early modern period. And it’s funny because western “academic” historians keep doing these mental gymnastics to reduce the number of Roman and Persian soldiers as much as they can in the battles they got totally humiliated in and want us to believe the Muslims of Sicily can call up 50 thousand soldiers.

>>212703488
>>212703596

mfs think arabism is some sort of wireless range bound signal that automatically shuts off once you set foot west of the nile or east of the Tigris

fuck outta here with that no true scotsman crap

>>212703573
>our

>>212703705
>my norman brethern,sicily has fallen

>>212703655
There’s not always a 1:1 ratio between population size and number of troops. The Roman Empire for example the Egyptians made up a massive chunk of the population but within the army were dwarfed by the Balkan provinces

>>212704072
>whatever random made up bs to convince you that the side he likes didnt get their shit pushed in , despite the fact that they infact , get their shit pushed in

eat a dick nigga

>>212703330 (OP)
they were catholic

>>212705257
So were the Bretons and they weren’t doing shit like that

>>212703330 (OP)
They never had sex

>>212703655
Lmao Arab historians do the exact same and they don't even question their sources. At least western historians try to pretend to not be biased

>>212703330 (OP)
>3,000 to 50,000
>"Only slightly more"
I get the impression these estimates are a bit wild

>>212703533
Those are Zainchi Eastern Romans.
And not Normans. You could've listed the crusaders defeats where Normans participated

>>212703330 (OP)
Christian sources. Check the "sources" for this battle. All of the sources used were christians. All of them. Very unbiased. Just a bunch of christian "historians" saying "trust me it was 10 gorillions and my other niggas can attest to that, believe that!".

>>212705612
You should be proud of Normans

>>212705647
I doubt he is French

>>212705647
You are genuinely retarded.

>>212705683
What's your point. History only became critical and more nuanced in the 19th century at best

>>212705660
Congrats you have turned on your brain. YHVH almighty is this board stupid.

>>212705501
It’s more realistic for the romans to have 150 to 240 thousand soldiers at al yarmouk, especially that the first number was reported by the romans. Than the Muslims of Sicily mounting 50 thousand soldiers. Not my problem there was a lot of of Arabic historians from the 9th to 15th century while Europeans lacked in that department.

>>212705757
>"wow what is he even trying to say??? that incredibly old battles with one sided amateurish sources should be completely disregarded when the lia- I mean "historians" don't even bother coming up with a realistic story???"
My point is that life on this planet is some kind of punishment.

>>212705797
Even if it's 3000, it's still an impressive win.
Also no roman sources have those numbers on the battle of Yarmouth.
Also there are alot of European historians from 9th to 15th century.

>>212705818
>should be completely disregarded
But these battles were impactful.

>>212705782
I don't understand French but what does this have to do with the Sicilian wars. Seems to be about the first cause in Anatolia.

>>212703330 (OP)
>What made Normans so powerful?
Vikang ancestry
Hunting culture
Duelling culture

The last part being infused in their personality caused total anglo death when they tried their banter culture on Normans.

>>212705782
>>212705797
>>212705818
>>212705840
>>212705683
>>212705757
>>212705647
>>212705612
>>212705526
the fatimid empire at that time of the battle (zirid was a small emirate part of that empire), ruling from morocco to iraq (including sicily), was struggling to get 10,000 soldiers

>numbers of soldiers : in accounts of individual battles, even crucial ones, the figures mentioned are usually around the 10,000 mark.[4]
>source : Beshir, B. (1978). "Fatimid Military Organization". Der Islam. 55 (1): 37–56.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_army#Numbers

This small skirmish in sicily probably had 500 soldiers at best.

The Fatimid had 1000 soldiers (incl. 400 cavalrymen) defending Jerusalem from the crusaders in 1099 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si%C3%A8ge_de_J%C3%A9rusalem_(1099)

>>212705840
the scale of the battle of yarmouk was so grand it changed the geopolitical landscape of the entire region for over a millennia to come
Syria, Jordan , lebenon and palistine are only now muslim/arab countries because of the battle of yarmouk

>>212705840
3000 is still a lot. Medieval armies were small. Especially if the main stock of soldiers was probably a minority demographic.
>Also no roman sources have those numbers on the battle of Yarmouth.
Roman primary sources say it’s 140 thousand soldiers
>Also there are alot of European historians from 9th to 15th century.
I know, they’re just not as much, or cover as much details, or cover a long time in history.

>>212705962
I'm not question that but look at the numbers of the Persian Roman Wars. It's not even close to the numbers in the Arab sources for Yarmouk battle. And you would expect the Roman Army to be smaller in that battle than against the Persians

>>212705647
Why? he's not Danish

>>212705952
I doubt that there was actually any foreign intervention. The Fatimids moved out of North Africa in 969 and gave it to the zirids who revolted 90 years later so the Fatimids sent a horde of Arab tribes to overthrow their former associates. North Africa was disunited when the affair in Sicily happened.

>>212703837
picrel: average sicilian

>>212706094
Neither were the majority of Normans. Only a handful of Danes actually settled in Normandy lol. William the Conquerer didn't even have a Germanic y-dna type, not even Frankish kek.

>>212706042
>>212706122
the whole island (sicily) had 400k pop. at that era circa 950 ad, with half (55%) being muslims

you can't get that much soldiers from a 200k muslim pop.

>>212706122
> Fatimids sent a horde of Arab tribes to overthrow their former associates

How does that make you feel

>>212706149
Years ago I read some paper where they tested norman remains in normandy and the majority were L21 or something suggesting gaulic or breton ancestry. So I agree the vikang connection to Normandy is probably overstated.

>>212706159
I like the tribes who were sent there and I like their tales, history and political entities in al Maghreb. I also don’t have a problem with the arabized Zirids of Berber stock. They had some nice things going on. What did you expect me to feel?

>>212706152
How do you even know it’s 55%?

>>212705962
>>212704630
>>212703837
>>212703680
>>212703533
I don't mean to detail the thread, but how are things in Libya right now?

>>212703330 (OP)
They just never gave up when sieging and were really good in a pitched battle

>>212706405
They destruction of the land and them increasing the deserts doesn't bother you?

>>212706733
How the hell did they increase the desert lol.
>destruction of the land
They negatively affected what was the most important city in North Africa built by the Arabs in the 7th century. So that was bad

>>212706789
They tore up the canals and farms and left the area to rot and become desert