On ALG's and their lies edition

>What language(s) are you learning?
>Share language learning experiences!
>Ask questions about your target language!
>Help people who want to learn a new language!
>Participate in translation challenges or make your own!
>Make frens!

Read the wiki:
https://4chanint.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_Wiki

Useful links:
>Free language‐learning book archive:
https://mega.nz/folder/INlRkAQC#CthKI9-_kmDNyrOx12Ojbw
>Books on linguistics and language courses:
https://mega.nz/#F!Ad8DkLoI!jj_mdUDX_ay-8D9l3-DbnQ
>Assorted language resources and some nice visual guides:
https://pastebin.com/ACEmVqua
>Torrents with more resources than you’ll ever need for 30 plus languages:
https://archive(dot)ph/x0dFH
>Russianon’s list of comprehensible input resources:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXd0V32TjCFsr1-F_en_lA4MI-i7JtyYf26cWLtPRec
>Massive collection of textbooks on various languages, sorted by family
https://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/
>/lang/ inpoot torrents
https://rentry.org/inpoot
>Refold Anki decks
https://rentry.org/refold

previous thread >>212662754

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs5hOhI4pEE

Where can I find CH-manga like Yotsuba with traditional characters

>>212712700
exhentai language:chinese$

>>212712685
I have too many things on my plate to learn French, but I love hearing it

>>212712700
https://www.dm5.com
and also exhentai like the other guy said, but getting into exhentai isn't so straightforward.

it's crazy how duolingo tricked hundreds of millions of normies into doing the least efficient language learning method (grammar-translation).

>>212713175
>he thinks people doing duolingo are there to learn

>>212713175
everyone can always choose their tools
duolingo helped me a lot early on, nothing wrong with that

I don't really have a use case to learn any language, and have mostly dabbled in many.
What is the reasons you learn? Do you have actual tangible goals or is it all theoretical stuff?

>>212715027
im dead inside

>>212715140
Riveting.

>>212715027
Yeah my goals are to read literature in the languages I learn
Tangible goals are reading 1 complete novel in my TL, read 1 novel each month in my TL, read particular authors I wish to read, etc

>>212715173
Did you jump straight into novels, or did you start with the very hungry caterpillar?

>>212715027
my ego craves triumph

>>212715220
Imo the easiest thing you can read but still stay interested in is the best option
For me that was the Harry Potter series for French
I could have read something easier but I just couldn't be bothered

>>212715027
it's fun

>>212715027
Kinda hard to live here without knowing the language.

>>212716933
you need to go back

I still have questions about ALG (I fell asleep last night).
I don't find Reddit posts credible. A lot of people write nonsense there.
What about pictograms? Can you learn them without learning pronunciation?
I was watching some Australian YouTuber and he was showing off his language skills and he was just translating what the Spaniard was saying after 250h hours or something like that
I agree that input is super important, that's how I learned English, but due to the lack of output I speak poorly. I still don't understand what's wrong with checking grammar or a word we can't figure out how to use. Just checking won't help; we need to listen, but just listening won't help if we can't understand the rules.
The next question is whether this method will lead to academic excellence. If I'm going to dedicate 2,000 hours to something, I want results.

reminder that English is all you need take those thousands of hours and put them into something useful

I guess nobody learned his lesson when the ALG brapzillian failed to learn Spanish and embarrassed himself in front of the entirety of /lang/

>>212718275
i have yet to see any of the algjeets on here speak in any language other than english

Just imagine yourself learning Russian, yes russian, that fucking disgusting, nasty, putrid language. fucking inserting it into your brain. Having that goblin speak inscripted inside your memory.
Now imagine people doing that deliberately to themselves.What have the world come to?

>>212715027
Dopamine

>>212718665
Whats wrong with Russian? Russia is still an imprtant country and lots of people speak it in Central Asia too.

>>212718995
>and lots of people speak it in Central Asia too
I heard that younger generations prefer English now

>>212715027
My "use case" is having a fun hobby to pass the time. No matter how many "reasons" you have on paper, if you don't enjoy the day-to-day process, you're not going to do it for long enough to succeed anyway.

>>212717717
just read the autobiography. he answers every question everybody here keeps asking over and over.
https://bradonomics.com/brown-autobiography/

this is a website from the AUA i think

https://algworld.com/the-alg-approach/

they literally have a youtube channel showing the method in their own classes that I guess Brown taught or designed, IDK: https://www.youtube.com/user/algworld

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vg2Eh2LOSE

ALG explained by David Long, coordinator of the AUA

Where to find ALG resources for languages other than Thai?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPacj1w-yX4
ALGbros...

>>212719740
"ALG resources" are just CI without subtitles or captions.

>>212719806
dreamingspanish isnt ALG

>>212720022
Yes it is, all you're supposed to do is listen for a thousand hours before reading, just like Brown says to do

>>212720058
if true then he's a s o y faggot that didn't do it right. he mentions reading and doing other shit you aren't supposed to do.

>>212720238
Yep, this is their in-depth roadmap

>>212719677
recommend everybody watch the whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C25550A857F59F0

massive redpill

>>212720238
>>212720372
>level 6
>listen and read a lot
it sounds like he's doing what he's supposed to.

>>212720454
This presentation should be a required watch before anybody is allowed to post here.

>>212720022
Saaaaaaaar

>>212720525
the average child does not speak until 2-3 years old. that's 2-3 years of 24/7 native input. 1000 hours isn't shit.

>>212720778
>Children typically start saying their first words between 10 and 14 months old.

>>212720846
a few words? we're talking about forming sentences

>>212710621
It's not language burnout, it's content burnout. You just need to find something new that interests you, maybe in a different type or genre.

I have recently started learning farsi and I like it but second guessing myself, maybe I should learning russian instead. I only learn because of attraction to the sound of the language, then the literature and media I can access.

>>212721537
learn Corsican

>>212719806
That guy's only done 300 hours of dreaming spanish btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugq5mGdf0k
However he looks like a retard to me, it could also be that.

>>212721604
lol. lmao.

>>212721582
If I learned a regional language it would be breton or maybe occitan

>>212721604
He did 1500 hours of comprehensible input. 300 hours on the DS platform and the rest is outside content.

my wife chino... I WANT TO FUCK CHINO
please chino is so cute my wife chino is so cute chino chan sex chino sex with chino i'd like some more kafuu chino sex with chino kafuu chino my wife cute is so chino wife

>>212721670
no do Corsican

>>212722234
no

>>212721670
What about Catalan?

>>212722689
He's already said occitan.

>>212721604
>1,500h to speak like that
I'm ngmi, I'm giving up this hobby

>>212721604
he speaks fine idgi

>>212722960
He stutters and thinking how to say something or how to pronounce something correctly

>>212722910
he didn't do ALG. he loosely followed dreamingspanish

I think this guy only did CI and he's giving tours as a hobby completely in Spanish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmFCwcDVehA&ab_channel=WorldsAcross

>>212723125
true alg has never been tried

>>212723063
maybe a little but honestly from his voice id assume hes a native speaker

>>212723162
Im so happy i didnt pick spanish
why would anyone learn a language of a people who hates you? so cucked

>>212722910
I mean, take a look at him. He's a "life coach" yet he looks like a soyjak came to life. He looks like the guy in the "never talk to me or my wife's son ever again" meme.
In fact, he even has a bunch of videos about polyamory, there is a wife's boyfriend in his life.
It's probably the reason he's learning spanish, to connect better with his wife's boyfriend.

>>212723375
you should not limit your choices based on what others think of you

>>212723441
LMAO

>>212723458
were human, not robots
you can deny it all you want but it is deeply rooted in our psychology to care about what others think of us

>>212723221
true ALG is just 1000+ hours of visual CI, like a baby or toddler recieves, with no analyzing or repeating or any activity beyond looking/listening/guessing

>>212723470

>>212723441
and yet he still managed to learn a second language unlike you whos still struggling to pick weather to learn polish or russian
imagine being language mogged by an irl soyjak

ALGods won.

>>212723624
Technically I speak two second languages.

>>212723624
>tf tp
your country is literally a soyjak factory

>>212723125
The AUA school had people start reading at 600 hours and apparently they turned out fine.

>>212724191
watching the David Long presentation from >>212720454

apparently people start speaking after like 700-800 hours, and that's for thai. he doesn't mention when they start reading

>>212723854
Your country sends billions to israel and still can’t afford healthcare, lower your tone when talking to me

>>212724393
werent you begging to join NATO

>>212724393
>still can’t afford healthcare
Everybody who can't afford it either gets a subsidized rate or gets medicaid. Our healthcare is also far better than yours. Enjoy waiting 6 months to get an MRI.

>>212724191
i don't think the AUA school is explicitly ALG. they just had an ALG program while Brown and some of his PhD students or w/e were there.

ALG's concept "damage" feels like a psy-op and makes me scared to try to learn any language at all honestly.
And what's worse is I love studying grammar. I found it so fun that I used to study English and Spanish grammar (and historical sound changes) in my free time as a kid and I would have majored in linguistics in college if not for the job prospects.
I don't think I'm capable of not analyzing language at all.

>>212724678
life isn't fair

>>212724191
dreamingspanish itself says you can start reading at 600h

>>212722538
putain

Ok, and what about the Pimsleur Method?

>>212724848
if the DS videos are really good then i don't really see a problem here. ALG seems to just be
>the longer you put off trying to read/write/speak/analyze, the better the foundation of understanding you will have when you finally do, and you won't have any bad habits"

so just push all of that off for as long as possible. IDK if Marvin Brown himself advocated for crosstalk or if that was added after he died.

>>212724678
There's a veritasium video about learning skills where he does an experiment, where someone learns how to ride a bike that has handlebars that turn the wheel in the opposite direction. After a few weeks, he's able to ride it like a normal bike, but then when he switches back to a normal bike he can't ride it.
Idk why people have this idea that the brain is so shitty at it's job that it can't adapt. Or that languages are somehow different and your brain just sticks with whatever bullshit it trained on first and never self-corrects.

>>212725175
americans can move to ireland/UK/AUS and still not acquire the accent after decades, and vice versa. once language is acquired it's not changing. our brain evolved to fossilize that stuff.

>>212715027
Free kimchi.

>>212725229
I've met Americans who can do other English accents, but it took them deliberate practice.

>>212724678
I also don't get the aversion to grammar study. At school we studied Italian grammar for many years and it helped me immensely. In one of the DiS progress videos posted earlier the dude mentions still not understanding the usage of articles. I don't see why he couldn't just read the rule in a grammar book, maybe directly in Spanish, and internalize the rule through practice

>>212725330
you faggots spamming the same retarded things over and ove are so annoying.

Question of the day: What languages besides English and Japanese have fun content?

>>212725385
Do you have equity in the alg project?

Learn
About
Needless
Terminologies
--/Lang/ your place for enlightenment

>>212725229
They aren't trying to pick up the accent

>>212725683
None. Maybe Russian for pirated materials for niche things like radiotechnology or art books, courses etc.

>>212724678
>1 year of highschool study is less than 100 traditional hours
What mouthbreather made this?

>>212725175
>>212725330
It’s just our trauma as Americans from studying a language for years and being totally non-functional in daily usage because we learned how to read le petit prince and Cyrano de Bergerac instead, which were what I could read. From what I hear, I was actually lucky to get any reading practice at all and many get little. Bitterness + disappointment. However if I could go back to my 18 year old disappointed self I would tell him to just start watching a shitload of French TV and things would have worked out. However now I am a bitter old 23 year old and hate the sound of French.

If I was taken hostage by an Islamic terrorist group and the US military said, "we have two hostage negotiators here: one who learned Arabic via 8000 hours of ALG, and one who did a course at the Defense Language Institute including intensive grammar study, input, and output practice... pick which one will negotiate for your life" I know which one I'd chose.

>>212726602
the ALG one is obviously the better negotiator

>>212726500
It's from r/ALGHub.
Assuming you have 181 instructional days in a school year, and you have a 45-minute language class every day, that's 8,145 minutes, or about 136 hours. That doesn't include homework.
It's off, but it's not that off.

>>212726654
I'm sure your family will defend your decision as they're burying your corpse after watching a video of you getting decapitated by a scimitar

Tbh whenever anyone says they're fluent in more than one language (their native language) I just don't believe them anymore until I've seen some proof.

Watched a youtube video about some guy talking about his learning strategy, saying that he knows multiple languages, saying that his strategy is to consistently study for 1 hour a day for a year - and in this way he learns a language a year and plans to know 12.
If I had to guess he knows zero languages. If I had to guess all commenters there also know zero, even the ones that claim to know six or seven.
There's just so many languagefrauders, not that it's a competition but they just make up things in their head and say they know 500 languages when the reality is you could spend 5 years on spanish and still have a mountain of things to learn even if you studied every single day.

I've given up on ever being a "polyglott" because they're literally all frauders even the real ones, they're frauders by association of not immediately denouncing all of the fraud AIDS in their community.

English speakers often use 'wud' as 'would'. Do they get meaning of 'shud' with the same logic?

>>212726749
You guys do second language every day? Here in italy it used to be two hours a week, they have upped it to three now. With 36 school weeks its 108 hours per year, not counting homework.

>>212726840
The way you pronounce "would" is to say it like "wood." The L is silent in "should," "could," and "would."

>>212726885
When I was in high school, we had 7 45-minute classes every day. One of those classes was a second-language class. So yeah, it was every day.

>>212726964
Crazy. How comes nobody speaks nothing but english in the US then?

>>212726893
I mean, on social media or internet settings

> I shud take it

>>212727017
>Crazy. How comes nobody speaks nothing but english in the US then?

>>212727017
Maybe ALG is right and traditional learning is harmful, and that's why :^)

>>212727068
Those people are immigrants and children of immigrants.
>>212727054
I guess internet people just spell poorly intentionally? I've never seen what you're talking about, so I can't say.

>>212727017
English is the only useful language in the USA, even spanish isn't actually useful because all of the money is in english, the TV is in english, the music is in english (spanish music is generally terrible), ect.

And we had 3 years of Spanish in high school for me, that's not enough to learn a language. Even if it WAS an effective method just a few years in high school from a bunch of kids who don't care isn't gonna teach anyone a language, realistically you have to multiply that time by 10 to learn anything.
>>212726885
108 hours per year for how many years? 300 hours is pretty much nothing in terms of language learning, and this is for people who actually spend that time learning and want to learn.
Kids don't want to spend their time learning languages usually, they don't pay attention, and the material is almost all just in english anyway so they never really learn to read and write.
I wouldn't believe anyone learns a language from 100 hours a year anyway. An average of 20 minutes a day for the whole year? Yeah, you're not learning anything with that.

>>212725683
korean, i like kdramas more than western tv series, they're long and have much more developed stories while western series are turning into movies cut into a few episodes

>>212726337
and babies/ALG users don't try to do anything and yet they learn it better than you.

>>212727682
you are brown

>>212727837
Inshallah

>>212727837
i'm black actually

>>212727712
And what have you learned from ALG?

>>212727712
I've yet to see a video of any ALGer who's only used comprehensible input and had a perfect accent and makes no grammar mistakes, like a native.
The best ones seem to be the ones who do shadowing and grammar study alongside that CI. Maybe that comes at the cost of never having the L2 be as effortless for them as a native, but like I said, I've never seen any native-like ALGer. There's only that one book to go off of.

>>212727884
youre using that word wrong
it means "with gods permission"

>>212724678
No such thing as "damage" exists, you can do """"damage"""" with stuff like accidentally pronuncing something wrong but all you have to do is be aware of this and try to fix it, that's fucking all.
>I don't think I'm capable of not analyzing language at all.
Nobody is capable of that, ignore these fucking morons.
t.guy who managed to learn a whopping 2.5 languages aside from his native, which is about 2.5 more than the guy who made that image
>>212725330
Grammar study in moderation is good, and I say this as someone who has never ever studied it. I slept through Turkish and English classes at school and never studied grammar at all for my languages, absorbing it all naturally. Studying grammar helps you so long as you do not overdo it and spend like half of all your learning time on it, it definitely would have helped me when learning.

>>212728034
Thanks Arab

>>212724678
I would actually consider you heavily braindamaged and unfixable if you're the kind of person who can sit through 1,000 hours of literal baby media so you can be "native" in a new language.
Analyzing does hold you back from many things in day-to-day life, but some people just have an analytical brain that picks apart everything - if you're so un-analytical that you can watch peppa pig for more than a few minutes you just have brain damage or are extremely low IQ.

>>212724678
just read Luciano Canepari, it will be much better than this clown shit

Like basically, I just have a spanish voice in my head from getting enough audio input. Pronunciation literally doesn't matter for me because I have a spanish voice in my head that I can read in, and when I'm speaking I can realize my mistakes because of the spanish voice.

More input solves this problem - and it actually massively boosts comprehension to have the things read to you in your head with proper pronunciation, so you just start doing it naturally eventually because it's the easiest thing to do. There's no way for me to "harm" this voice no matter how many minecraft let's plays I watch that have a different accent and use slang, if I wanted to I could switch the voice to sound like the spanish minecraft let's player instead of the audiobook narrator, or instead I could switch it to a girl's voice to read to me from my time listening to alice in wonderland.

>>212724678
Anyone who tells you not to try things is a retard. The important thing is whether or not something works. You should always try things and see for yourself. Never have any faith in any """"method"""". Arguing about which method is good and which is bad is for retards in the first place. Normal, successful language learners do whatever they need to with no care in the world about methods. You could mention Stephen Krashen to them and they'd have no clue who you're talking about.

>>212728529
Why isn't it already a girl's voice? You like having a man in you head?

The ALG schizo is /lang/s keto schizo

Where I live in Canada (near Quebec border) we have a lot of people truly fluent in French and English. Seems the real trick is constant real life exposure from an early age, nothing else will match that. The Francophones that did the bare minimum in English have shit English. But many of the ones that engaged in English constantly don't even have a French accent when they speak English. So basically, if you didn't grow up in a bilingual area and have constant childhood exposure to both languages, you've done more damage to your TL than reading 1000 wikipedia articles. It's so over.

>>212727976
https://www.reddit.com/r/Thailand/comments/1hkjclv/how_good_is_david_longs_thai/?share_id=hvUTJIYdId32rXP8xV0XE

>>212719806
>immediately answers in english
lmao

>David speaks in an un-Thai way on purpose because the foreigners who did well on Thailand didn't try to be Thai
lol lmao

>>212729934
Even there, the Thai people claim he's really good, but still has a noticeably non-native accent. That just supports my point.
I can't really comment on other languages, but I've seen videos of people who've done ALG in English and Spanish. I can't claim to be native-level at Spanish; I know I have an accent. However, the people who've done Spanish ALG/Dreaming Spanish have noticeably anglophone accents, worse than mine, and they make gender mistakes and grammar mistakes, here and there, except for one video I found some time ago, but he said he had done a bunch of manual study before Dreaming Spanish.

>>212723551
only people who you care about. If you fare about random normgroid slime, you have slave mentality

Should I learn japanese or korean? I can't decide

>>212730393
Hey..

инпютитe

Study sessions can either leave me feeling like total shit or like I'm on top of the world depending entirely on how much I remember

>>212730393
ignoring anime, japan has a vastly more interesting history and culture than korea
the choice is easy so long as you can put up with the weeb accusations

>>212730393
learn Nivkh

>>212730393
Do you like Hyundai or Honda more?

Should I try to learn an "easier" language before taking on Japanese or Mandarin? I think Japanese would be the coolest to know, but if an English native can't even learn Spanish or French there is zero chance of getting good at Japanese, right?

It's literally impossible to let someone know you're learning Japanese without seeming like a massive weeaboo that's obsessed with hentai and anime children

>>212730595
yes, learn Cree

>>212730609
>seeming like a massive weeaboo that's obsessed with hentai and anime children
There's nothing wrong with this

>>212730595
why can't you just fkin learn the one you want to learn and stick with it.

>>212730595
>but if an English native can't even learn Spanish or French there is zero chance of getting good at Japanese, right?
Dunno which retard put this in your head.

I don't feel like I'm learning any words while inputting. Every time I see I new word I tap on it, read the translation, and keep reading. I never remember them

>>212730778
because that doesn't work. you should only be watching videos with a lot of visual aid by the native speaker. audio does not work. reading does not work.

Don't Japanese learners start by learning the script?
>>212725123
Anyone?
I was considering learning with Pimsleur + Nature Method + input with Extr@ Français or with that cool comic books guy. The damage was done anyway because I had the language at school, so what's the difference just to try?
I'm still considering German, maybe I'd try it only with CI
>>212724678
Same. Plus I like to write

>>212730778

first of all stop reading

second of all:

>Every time I see I new word I tap on it
distraction
>read the translation
now you've associated the TL word with your own native language, and you will never intuitively use it
>and keep reading
which is bad
>I never remember them
obviously.

>>212730860
writing is useless, and by extension, reading is useless too, grammar is also useless

>>212730778
The idea is that you don't learn words one by one. You grasp the general meaning of individual sentences, and over time, you grasp the meaning of all the words in those sentences 1% at a time. In other words, you're learning lots of words at once without realizing it. Then one day you'll realize you understood all the words in a sentence perfectly well without realizing you had known those words.
You kind of need to to do this no matter what; just a direct translation will often either be crude or, sometimes, straight-up wrong and misleading.
Like, for a made-up example, maybe there's no direct translation for the word "to wear." There are different words depending on the article of clothing. But each of those words can be used for more than just talking about clothing; they could maybe talk about carrying stuff or kicking or something. You have to learn this sort of thing by direct exposure over and over again.

>>212730860
Pimsleur is "ok". It's not bad, but it's slow and inefficient, but if you have a commute, or a lot of downtime, it's good to just throw onto your phone and listen.
Also, extensive input only before output and study is fucking retarded and it's amazing that people fall for it (not really, people are mongoloids)

>>212715027
>What is the reasons you learn? Do you have actual tangible goals or is it all theoretical stuff?
Learning a new language often completely alters the reality you exist in. I speak Russian, English, and English legit opens a lot of doors professionally and gets you access to so much information that I can't ever imaging myself being a monolingual. Spanish is a bit different, it's like I've unlocked a more passionate and affectionate side of myself after years of talking with Latino tourists in Russia and especially after staying in Colombia for 6 months. People do not joke when they say that knowing several languages fluently alters your personality, there's so much more cultural input that knowing another language somewhat changes your identity.

>>212730934
>>212731006
I mean, I understand where bad reading habits can come from, I see it in English, and for example, a Polish accent or a German accent is speaking as if you were reading English words in your native language, e.g. iRon with a voiced R or Hello with strong H or Volf instead of Wolf. But still, Nature Method books have pronunciation tips and you read along with the narrator, and Pimsleur also offers a relatively natural dialogue (at least for a beginner level).

>>212731251
there's no such thing as a method, just start ooga boogaing at japanese people would improve your japanese the most

Hello friends. I am looking for more immersion sources for Icelandic. I am finding it quite hard to find them.
I am mainly looking for things like talk shows or whatever really.

>>212730934
For the love of god get a part-time somewhere instead of spamming this shit for pennies, don't you have some basic self-respect?

>>212731411
learning is useless too

>>212731411
>>212730934 is just some fag trying to psyop ALGods into looking bad

>>212731661
after careful analysis and routine fact-checking, I have concluded since native speaker do no learning in their language, I would mimic that too.

>>212717717
Just auditory input forever goy if you want to do anything academic in the next 5 years you’ll get there by just watching unsubtitled speaking without reading just like all those hyper-educated native speakers that can’t read.

>>212731988
I hear you'll also pick up how to roll your Rs perfectly and automatically achieve the prestige accent of your chosen language

>>212721604
He’s comprehensible but it’s not exactly shocking that never training his mouth to make foreign sounds means he has a thick American accent.

>>212730609
It's really only a problem in America. People in other countries are more receptive to the idea for whatever reason.

>>212722910
Or you can just learn like an adult and be c1 minimum in all 4 areas in 1500 hours

>>212731340
https://deildu.net/ -- icelandic torrent site with movies, books etc.
https://iptv-org.github.io/iptv/languages/isl.m3u -- icelandic tv, there's 5 channels but you might need a vpn for some of them. you can play this in vlc.

That's about all there is for free input. If you want to invest some money, there's probably Icelandic streaming services and books on Amazon and Audible that you can find.

Has anyone here ever been to a country where their TL is spoken
If so how did it go?

>>212732834
Once I asked for directions and didn't understand a word of the answer

>>212732485
Thanks Serbia <3

>>212732834
Yes. I went to Spain once. I was too timid to talk at first sometimes, but I was comfortably speaking it after a while. There was once this guy who did an interview with me as a young person in Spain, but I told him I was a foreigner at the end and he was disappointed, because he couldn't use what I said anymore.

>>212732443
How?

the llpsi playlist from scorpiomartianus is gone, its over for latin, it's officially dead now, lingua latina finita est
if someone have those vids please upload it somewhere

>>212733730
>lingua latina finita est
Maybe for you Reconstructicucks. Catholichads still have the Via Latina playlist. But I guess it’s not pro-LGBT latinity enough for you people.

>>212733919
if i only cared for larping as a tradcat saying the pater norster it would be cool but i don't want to read Virgil or Ovid sounding like a pizzaiolo who doesn't care about vowel length

>>212730778
anki is free

>>212735055
Anki is for virgins. Chads do not need Anki to learn a language.

bros why did everyone say icelandic is hard? been grinding for a month and already made huge gains

>>212735185
Let me guess, Chads need nothing more than 1500 hours of Peppa pig

>>212733730
I think someone may have archived them and posted the links on /clg/, maybe check the archived threads

I STILL DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SPEAK OR NOT WHILE STUDYING
Fuck this shitty hobby

>>212735031
You know that you can (and should) read Ecc. with vowel length right? A choir singing Latin, who do not speak it, are not necessarily representative of how a well-trained priest will speak it.

Also, if anything, Catholicism is an actual religion, the largest on Earth. While the Papacy may not really use spoken Latin anymore, the authoritative form of all documents including the Catechism and the Bible are Latin.

Meanwhile the reconstructed people are usually literally larping, unless they’re sincerely just trying to engage with the Western tradition more deeply. Sadly, many just want to wear reenactment Lorica Segmentata and say shit like “I want to speak Latin like how it was spoken when Rome was victorious” -real quote. But usually they shit on medieval latinity or anything that isnt Keek-er-oh and call people like me who have used/heard Latin in one variety or another from the cradle onwards LARPers. Don’t throw stones in a glass house.

>>212735964
get good first, then speak

>>212735964
Speak and you might regret the "damage" later.
Don't speak and you might regret not starting sooner and wasting time.

You're in a real pickle. On top of that you don't even which language you want to learn...

>>212735222
Chads bang chicks in their TL. Its that simple.

>>212735217
Its not hard, it just lacks the volume of resources that other languages have. This make the beginning stage harder if someone doesn't know where to look.

>>212731988
do anything academic? wtf are you talking about you dumb fag? AI is taking all of those jobs in like a year. it's over.

>>212735964
you cannot speak until like 1000 hours unironically

Why the fuck are you reading /lang/ instead of learning your TL?
DO. THE. WORK.

>>212736994
Two(/tu/, [tʰu̟u]) more weeks

>>212730609
>speak 3 european languages and japanese
>suddenly nobody thinks you're a weeb, you're just a language enthusist

>>212737148
which languages

>>212737098
Why are you?

>>212726784
Get a fucking passport dude lmao

Portuguese (BR) has:
Great music
Good, but old, literature (some modern is airtight teir)
About 12 decent films
And a bunch of low brow series and novellas. Or if a show is interesting it'll get canceled after 6 episodes.

I'd kill for a good multiple season show to watch every night.
>sítio do picapau amarelo is top teir though

>>212726784
Who gives a shit about the frauds or those who are too pussy to denounce them
You should be learning for your own benefit, whether that be self-satisfaction or something more material such as better job opportunities. A bunch of retards blowing their life on duolingo and on jacking eachother off should be of no consequence to you

>>212729541
What baffles me about this mentality is that you only need to meet one person who learned a language as an adult and speaks it well to completely nullify everything you just wrote in your post, but apparently in north American you just don't meet polyglots?

>>212736218
I know which ones, I don't know in what order and what priorities to choose, because I know that my life won't be long enough to learn more than three very well. Maybe to Pic rel is my tier list for now
>>212737065
I've already fucked up
>>212730609
Complaining like this is what's driving me to learn Japanese. What's wrong with being a weeb and an anime fan if you actually are one? Meet other weebs and enjoy the hobby. My non-weeb friends know I'm one of them and somehow we live in peace. One of them even encourages me to learn Japanese so I can stop complaining to him about my troubles with Spanish.

>>212737771
English king.
German OR French: great culture, tons of content and actually useful.
B tier: great content, great music and media, cool history or very exotic culture, but not very useful
C tier: I like them for some reason, not very useful or very niche.

>>212737771
learn Galician

>>212737065
You can speak after doing Pimsleur :3
I shock natives into doing backflips purely through the power of Pimsleu.

>>212737771
Why did you put spanish twice on your list?
>I know which ones, I don't know in what order
Strat with a tier, so german or french. Here, I solved the conundrum for you.

>>212737771
>>212737876
This guy is really Jordie with a VPN

>>212737771
>that list
lol
lmao

why are you people even obsessed with this shit... fucking norweigan? lmao. just say you're fetishizing nordic women and stop pretending norway of all places has any redeeming qualities outside of good air quality. you people are retarded. you're not picking any because you have no good reason to learn any

>>212737954
Not useful, so show me the best rock song or pop ballad in Galician
This is also the biggest flaw of the German language: although they have a lot of good music, many languages moggs them in terms of the number of bangers

>>212737980
>>212737065
Idk who to believe
>>212738045
>Strat with a tier
I know that, duh. That's why it's A tier.
Rioplatense is very specific that's why I doubled Spanish
>>212738082
I'm fetishizing nordic salary, nature and life quality. Also C tier are languages that I would learn only if I emigrated to one of these countries

>>212737148
I don’t know which is worse.

>>212737065
1250 hours in and still not speaking
I'm watching vids on quantum physics and geopolitics but could not fluently tell you few sentences about my week

>>212738239
Learn classical arabic

>>212738239
>I know that, duh
Then why are you learning spanish, a language from b tier?
>>212738307
LOL

>>212738113
ok then do Catalan

Is listening really far more important than reading in the early stages of learning?

>>212738358
I just wanted to start and then figure out what to do next. I found a nice song in Spanish, so I started with the Spanish

>>212738561
Yeah, how can you read something correctly if you haven't listened to the language enough to know the pronunciation?
>>212738585
I see, what was the song?

>>212738715
Thinking the opposite seems like it can be really pernicious for Chinese learners.
I have a friend who was learning Chinese, and was dismayed at how his listening was bad, and he just "couldn't hear the characters fast enough." And he was discouraged at learning more words because he'd have to learn to write every one of them. And he was basically saying that Chinese is a character based language, and if you don't know them you can't speak it.
I argued with him that Chinese kids know how to talk long before they know thousands of characters, and that it's verbal first and foremost. It was a bit of back and forth, but he seems to focus less on being able to write words and more on trying to understand speech and speak now.

There was also this anon last thread who said they could read Mandarin well enough but beginner CI was incomprehensible. That's definitely bad. They were probably saying it wrong in their head the whole time.

>>212738715
https://youtu.be/EsmE9xoe6es?si=cEAafGQlZ3zd0y5M

>>212738715
well yeah that makes sense but I'm thinking in terms of like ALG guides and how they say stuff like "you need to only listen for over a thousand hours, then you can start reading too"

>>212738943
That’s why back in the 60s they invented this newfangled invention called “have a native speaker read the dialogues at a reasonable pace” so you can do both.

>>212739065
literally just watch

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C25550A857F59F0

guy who learned from Marvin Brown, researcher who developed ALG

>>212739126
and yes watch EVERY PART. im sick of you fags asking the same questions over and over when you can just stfu and watch this and understand that ALG is the endgame of language acquisition.

we need to begin summary executions of anybody who refuses ALG. not even memeing

>>212739067
That's true. It's too bad you can't often have that outside of a classroom.
At least we have audiobooks alongside ebooks, and the Microsoft Edge TTS is actually pretty good.

>>212739126
>Developed
What is there to develop of the most barebones method in existence? This feels like typical “I have a simple belief I want to pretend is complicated so I will link to someone erudite who can use esoteric vocabulary to lend my simple ideas legitimacy.”

Just say your points.

>>212738561
Depends, if the language pronunciation is pretty simple and you have enough knowledge to figure it out from reading
>e.g. Spanish for most Americans
then reading can help build early vocab a lot faster than listening
But if pronunciation is a complete unkown then probably best to figure that out first
>t. Someone who has always practiced mainly by reading and actually lives in my target language most of the year

>>212729351
A girl's voice makes adventure stories less interesting many times or breaks immersion. It worked for Alice in Wonderland, but if I'm reading fantasy slop I usually want a man's voice except for very specific circumstances.
>>212737065
This tbqhwy, speaking anywhere near an okay level is just not gonna happen until bear minimum 1,000 hours, but probably much more. Before that you're just memorizing phrases, at some point your brain starts making it work, and eventually you start using the words you've heard in the correct context fast enough to at least hold a conversation.

It's way more complicated than people believe, significantly harder than any other aspect besides complex writing.

>>212739434
Even with something like Spanish, if you have absolutely no ear for it, you're going to be reading it all wrong and accented in your head, even if you could maybe be understood. IME, people with bad accents don't seem to realize just how bad their accent is. It seems like they literally can't hear a difference between how they say things and how the native speaker says things.

>>212739434
I don’t think anyone should do reading without audio as a beginner if they can avoid it. But also if the language has a mostly consistent way of writing the pronunciation one can directly study that first and get reading pretty early, they just shouldn’t expect to get much spoken or listening benefits from it early on if there’s no audio to go along with it.

I think the question people are asking is often less “does X work?” and more “will X meet all of my expectations?” Since expectations are pretty much always too high, in part due to advertising, that means you’ll get someone shittalking just about anything used for language learning.

For example, Duolingo is *okay* but not great at teaching a foundational vocabulary and some very basic grammar gradually. Is it the best at this? No, because it tries to be a full course and markets itself as such, so it’s fairly mediocre. However, if it works for someone and they enjoy it I see no reason to simply discourage them from doing it, without suggesting suitable alternatives.

Last time I said Duolingo wasn’t literally 100% useless, some sperg on here argued with me because he, like most, thought “useful” meant “will teach you literacy, grammar, speaking, reading, and writing, and will suck your dick and do your taxes, all while being easy.”

>>212738561
"early" and "late" are entirely subjective, but if you don't know enough reading will actually not be that much faster, listening with subtitles in your TL will be better and more comprehensible than just reading on its own.

Reading starts to pay off more when you don't need to look up most of the words, and it gradually starts being more and more worth it until it massively beats listening to the point where 1 hour reading is probably worth 3 or 4 of active listening. I think this is a big reason why a lot of ESL's never get good at english really, unless you actively read REAL actual books you're probably not seeing most of the rare native vocab, and you're definitely listening to things that are much simpler than the peak of what english can do - if someone can express something by talking if they sit down and compose themselves they can spend an hour expressing the thought in text more fluently than they ever could otherwise. Reading allows more complex ideas and unusual vocabulary.

And by extension most reading material for adults is more complex than listening material by far - you will not see a great benefit unless you read dumbed-down stuff that you can understand most of the words and concepts in without looking them up.

>>212739383
when you're offered references and don't use them, nobody cares about your excuses anon

>>212739810
>listening with subtitles in your TL
I've always wondered about this. On paper I feel like it would train both listening and reading evenly, but I feel far stronger on my ability to read russian than listen and speak it. And this was my main form of input for much of my time

>>212738561
I prefer reading
Matt vs Japan thinks that those who do a lot of reading early on are stuck with weird sounding accents vs those who focus on listening

>>212712624 (OP)
Have any of you taken any of the a1 german exams? I need a certificate to apply for residency in my husbands country and have around 3 months to prepare. He looked over some material and says children can do this, i'll be fine, but it's his native language so it's easy for him to say. I am going to study an hour a day as well as practice with him. If it matters it's the OSD exam specifically. Will that be enough? Is it really that easy, I tend to over complicate things and I don't trust reddit answers on this.
I just now realized theres a language thread after making my own thread oops

>>212740014

>>212739920
It mostly trains reading because your brain's lazy, but it's also more efficient for listening because it boosts comprehension.
Maybe you've become hyper-specialized in reading, or maybe the native content you're listening to would be hard for even natives to understand.

Of course, reading overall SHOULD be easier because you can stop and think and re-read, but it requires so much understanding of context that it's harder until you've reached an adequate level.
>>212740013
I'm not really worried about accent at all, it's like .1% of what I'm worried about as long as the natives can somewhat understand me. Forming sentences that make sense and don't seem retarded is much more important than whatever accent I have.
>>212740014
>>212740028
I have a really good accurate answer for this but I would only give it to a woman and not a gay man, but this is a blue board so I'll just ask for girl feet.

>>212740028
>>212740069
Please help, we are a straight couple if it really matters and I am a woman, I can post a pic of like us holding hands or something (not feet, it feels like cheating especially cause he likes feet) but I’m desperate and spiraling, I just wanna live with him being apart is horrible

>>212740172
please do not post anything lol

>>212740172
OK holding hands works but try to get your adams apple in the pic

>>212740069
>I'm not really worried about accent at all
ngmi. enjoy sounding like an actual retard and people assuming you're a mentally challenged native

>>212740330
The problem with worrying about accent is that it doesn't matter if you can't string together a sentence, and since most people can't (and I can't yet reliably) accent doesn't matter.
We've had pollack priests around here who never got rid of their accents and it was always just fun and interesting, same with pretty much any priest - they come in from around the whole world - and those foreigners and stuff.

Unless your accent is so bad it's unintelligible it literally doesn't matter and everything else is more important, once you've completed everything else then maybe you can worry about accent. No, I do not care about "sounding native."

>>212740369
The American accent sounds uniquely terrible in most other languages though
Maybe I might not care if I were Polish

>>212740402
what accents don't sound bad in other langauges though? i've asked this before. some korean people said that american accents actually sound very good like ASMR-y in korean.

Basically every single accent except for indian sounds good if you're speaking english, besides maybe british english since that sounds gay. Slavic accents overall are probably the most loved in america.

>>212740505
literally no foreign accents sound good in english other than south american spanish, french, italian. maybe german but not really.

everything else either sounds retarded or annoying. slavic accents? wtf are you talking about lol

>>212739770
I'd agree with that. Basically get the equivalent of a 1 or 2 semester class under your belt to get the basics, which is the one thing Duo is half decent at, then grind whatever works for you.

I learned basically the FSI methods of doing everything right from the beginning because you'll be living full time in the language 10 weeks from today. Everything was rough, bad grammar, false cognates, terrible accent. I got better as I went, then even changed my accent once I moved to Brazil.

Nothing fossilized, nothing was ruined. I had some embarrassing moments with pronunciation then I simply changed the pronounciation once someone pointed it out. Nowadays I can easily distinguish accents between regions and if anyone clocks that I've got an accent they've stopped asking my country and started asking if I'm from a certain state there.

>tldr get the basics down then do what keeps you interested, knowing that you do need to do everything at various levels. Don't be afraid of ruining yourself.
>also native speaking kids say shit like feets and psguetti all the time, it's not a "fossilized" mispronunciation based on reading, it's a natural part of language learning that works itself out via practice and lots of input

>>212740651
>Nothing fossilized
post discarded for blatant lies

>>212740014
OK I'll give this a real answer I guess since we don't get real questions often here.

Look up a1 german tests on youtube and practice for those specifically, they are extremely easy and even when never studying any german at all I can understand a great amount of what they're saying.
Practice specifically for the test if you're worried about it, but a1 is baby level.
One hour a day of practice is enough to pass a1 easily in even a month or two, but you should be doing way more than an hour of practice if you're actually trying to get residency, you should be doing 2 or 3 hours of practice per day bare minimum because if you don't get b1 / b2 by the time you move to said country you still won't be able to do basic day-to-day actions.
a1 is baby level and if you specifically practice for the test for a little bit each day it's nothing. The purpose of the a1 test is to show that you at least TRIED to learn the language before moving there, but it takes around a B2 to really get to a "usable" level of said language. I would almost advise you to skip the a1 test and go straight for a2.

So does everybody just agree that British English is superior to American?

>>212741080
same incredibly boring language

>>212732834
>Has anyone
i, me
>how
well

NTA btw
>>212740505
>Slavic accents overall are probably the most loved in america.
When Americans say that they usually mean russian but heavy polish accent sounds completely different (or maybe I'm just biased idk)
https://youtu.be/1coKsLRGShs?si=iqIc9mWDCkPghx5u

>>212741080
I don't. American spelling is usually more straightforward.

>>212741019
Thanks a lot for this. My main focus currently is a1 certification since that is what is actually required for residency. Of course after I’ll continue practicing because I think you need b2 at some point if you intend to live there longer (I don’t intend to get citizenship since austria doesn’t allow dual citizenship and I don’t want to give up my US citizenship presently.) I also intend to learn his dialect specifically because that is actually very interesting to me, I had no clue german varied so much.

>>212741353
I agree, it does sound fairly different to a heavy Russian accent.

>>212741580
please god tell me you're both white and that you are biologically female and he is biologically male

>>212739919
Thanks for your concession.

>>212741080
Kek

>>212741580
L O N D O N
O
N
D
O
N

>>212741676
Yes I am white an american and we are a normal straight couple lol. The main reason I’m moving to austria is to give our future children a better life, even though I am not happy with the state of the US it’s still a lot to leave my entire life behind and move to a new continent, but if we are going to have a family of our own it’s better off there.

compared to modern chinese, old chinese likely had inflectional morphology, with a case system shown in personal pronoun at least, like its cousins in the sino-tibetan branch. It also had a complex consonant cluster, the consonants likely played a role in inflection, if its anything similar to classical Tibetan. Modern lhasa tibetan also lost its consonant clusters and developed a simple tone system to compensate, while amdo tibetan remained similar to classical tibetan phonology and never developed tone system. The development of tones in chinese is likely an influence from other mainland SEA languages, along with grammatical similarities.

What do you understand from this?
>In Mesoamerican mythology the Lords of the Nightare a set of nine deities who each ruled over every ninth night forming a calendrical cycle.

>>212742259
Why would we think it to be dramatically different from the written style of the Spring and Autumn period or earlier? Is it based on an assumption that that style was already far removed from normal speech?

>>212742523
that the Lords of the Nightare (this might be 'nightmare', but I will be charitable and assume a proper noun) comprise nine deities who each ruled over every ninth night that formed a calendrical cycle in Mesoamerican mythology

Scottish Gaelic pigs just dropped

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Ok1PJgW_c

>>212733730
Ørberg's kids requested he take them down a couple months ago due to copyright (despite them having nothing to do with making the book), so he removed them and started his own version of llpsi. The originals are still up on Kemono though.

I want to start learning another language

>>212712624 (OP)
how do you recommend going about improving your first language

>>212744205
We, the /lang/ community, don't recommend you improve your first language, as it would cause fossilization in the left hemisphere of the brain.

>working on my French, which is useful to me since it helps with the job market/promotions AND I can visit Quebec
Feels like visiting the dentist. My brain goes full ADHD.
>learning Spanish, which is a total meme for me because I'm too poor for international vacations, nobody around me speaks Spanish, and there isn't really any Spanish media/books I'm that interested in
Fun and engaging. I actively look forward to watching Spanish youtube videos, practice speaking with AI, find the language very interesting.

Why is my brain like this? The Spanish language has zero use to me, but I enjoy it so much more than French which I can actually benefit from. This is why I'm a poor retard.

>>212744205
Read a lot of books and articles at your reading level or above it (so not pop fiction at a 6th grade reading level).

Fossilization seems like a very convenient excuse for ALG not working
>Oh, you took Spanish in school? Sorry bro, irreversible damage. That's why you sound like an idiot after 1000 hours of not speaking

>>212744379
To me, it sounds like you damaged your brain's ability to learn French, probably from shitty grade classes. But your Spanish isn't fossilized yet, so you find it more engaging. Modern language learning techniques are superior to the shit we did in school back in the day.

I mean maybe they're not *new* methods, but at least more widespread.

>>212744205
Don’t read. You’ll fossilize advanced vocabulary and syntax into your brain and will randomly reference greco-roman classics at times.

>>212712624 (OP)
https://www.cambridgeenglish.org/test-your-english/
>fossilization
mhm.
>>212744641
>>212744418
test
>>212744311

As we know, learning causes autism, for the sake of your mental wellbeing, it is best to stop learning!

>>212744205
That is something i need to do too
Im shit at NL, English and TL, I literally sound like an xSL in all of them

>>212744379
You have trauma, probably caused by teachers at school and shitty teaching, I had the same experience and for years I hated French
Learn Spanish, the worst you can do is change the language to French when you look at it from a different perspective

I did 100 Russian anki cards today, I don't know, I don't really want to study this language but I put FSRS on

>>212741830

>>212746515
What is it lately with people going to Japan and acting like niggers

>>212746573
It gets views. The Japanese are so dramatic that you can have an entire nation of 120 million plus all the japan respecters/enjoyers outraged (and paying attention to you) over stuff like a bluetooth speaker on the subway.

Shame won’t work because shame gives attention and these people are largely shameless.

>>212740013
>Matt vs Japan thinks
Yeah, but he's a grifting cuck who is trying to sell shit so everything he says/does should be taken with a grain of salt

>>212744205
reading, just like your teachers told you in school

>>212746795
>over stuff like a bluetooth speaker on the subway.
that is bad conduct in the civilized world though
the Japs are just complaining about it on social media instead of telling the tards off

>>212744379
It is because deep down somewhere in your heart, you know that French is for losers so your body is trying to fight it off.
I hear Quebec has hot girls though, so maybe its worth it.

>>212746849
Teachers in anglosphere countries don't encourage reading :3
We all have to be as retarded as the most retarded person in our class.

>>212746816
>but he's a grifting cuck who is trying to sell shit
Well yeah duh hes jewish so its in his nature, he cant help himself

Anyone here actually use mnemonics for vocabulary? I’ve heard before of their effectiveness, but I wouldn’t even know where to begin with them myself

>>212747601
I don't really see the point. Then again I still only know the order of North, East, South and West going clockwise from the "Never eat shredded wheat" mnemonic...

>>212747889
why not just remember that east is right of north?

>>212747601
I've been trying it out recently. Here is my process.

>there are people who confuse west/east
Grim

>>212746915
Yeah, classes for gifted children are cut while more resources are allocated to special ed teachers for each and every retard.

French or German or Japanese?
In which one will I achieve the most by the end of the year?

>>212751136
learn Basque

>>212751182
No

>>212751217
ok then Votic

>>212751136
>In which one will I achieve the most by the end of the year?
french or german, easily

>>212751182
this, euskera ikasi

I'm not a polyfag, I'm a trilingual chad.

>>212751419
Bulgarian, Romanian and what?

>>212751438
Berufdeutsch

>>212751438
BulgeAryan, romAryan, and hungAyran

>>212744379
It doesn't matter though, as an english speaker praticing spanish is like doing light french and italian practice, just get good at spanish and by the time you're fluent you can decide to switch to primarily studying french, which will be much easier to learn at that point.
This is my plan to learn italian since it's a smaller language than spanish and has less input material, I'll just learn spanish well first, and afterwards Italian will take less time.

>>212744501
or it's just right

>>212751419
english, german, russian of course

>>212752187
Only english from your list. Try again.

>>212752293
you're a german-russian rape baby who learned english from reading 4chan memes and playing video games. not that complicated. i stand by my post.

this is probably really retarded for me to care about, but is there any other languages for which the online learning community has so many resources like Japanese?
I've been learning romance languages for a while but I always lurked djt and adjacent communities for inspiration, and always liked their websites, resources, passion and so on.
I'm curious about learning a harder language and I'm feeling inclination towards Japanese mostly because of such online communities/resources, but I feel like if other languages had similar stuff I'd choose them instead, like Russian
so, are there other notorious resource/community-rich languages? or is Japanese just lighting in a bottle because of the overlap between weeb culture + tech skills + autism?

>>212752359
And you're a retarded mutt.

>>212752369
djt is a cesspool

How come only Japanese has a language general?
How about one for Turkish, French, ,Russian, German, Chinese etc

>Muh neuroplasticity
Meanwhile actual neuroplasticity studies show that you only start declining in vocab at your 70's if you keep practicing despite having significantly declined mental function.

>>212753324
they would be dying all the time
even this general rarely hits the bump limit

>>212753329
because ALG is correct and there is no critical period. adults just compulsively add stuff in that act as distractions and learning impediments.

>>212753329
neuroplasticity is just a cope to justify being a lazy slob

Anyone here use italki? I'm thinking about doing some Russian lessons in a few months once I have enough vocab under my belt. Any recommended teachers?

>>212753324
Anime website

>>212752369
>but is there any other languages for which the online learning community has so many resources like Japanese?
short answer is no, not even remotely close
something about japanese attracts a certain type of person that causes this, and you won't find it elsewhere, at least not in a sufficient enough amount to create the type of ecosystem and resources that exist for japanese

>>212752369
On top of everything else japanese was seen as "the orient" for so long, yet it was so popular, that people went in realizing it was an entirely different world and they'd have to be radical, efficient, and organized to learn and understand it.
Japanese language learning is taken much more seriously than any european language learning where it's seen as "close" and "not that different", even Russian. They've basically developed their methods constantly to respond to the extreme challenge - and were able to recognize it as being such a challenge because it's "oriental."

chatting with people from my TC on runescape as I level fishing